Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vlatko 08-17-06, 01:58 PM	I was setting a halfling dog rider up and i was wondering what you guys thought of this set up; STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14 that include the racial mods. 4 ranks handle animal 4 ranks ride FEATS Animal Affinity Mounted Combat ------- The mod he will play in is an intro mod (level 1's only) and i was going to take ride by attack when he got to level 2. ok idea?
trollbill 08-17-06, 03:33 PM	Personally, I don't know what a Halfling dog rider has to do with an open-air representation of the crucifixion of Jes...Oh! You mean cavalry! Well, how good that build looks depends on where you are headed with it. If I were doing it I take at least 2 points out of Cha and put it in Dex. I would take my first level as Ranger for the skill points then alternate that with Fighter for the feats until I could become a Halfling Outrider. The Ranger and Outrider allow the puppy to increase in power as I do so that I don't end up getting dismounted all the time at high levels because my mount keeps dying under me. I would take the archer route with the Ranger and start with either Mounted Combat or Point-Blank shot.
kjenks 08-17-06, 05:36 PM	Let me guess, you have a mounted cavalry character named Calvary? Try this instead: Druid 1, Fighter 1, then Druid the rest of the way until level 9, then pick up one more level of fighter and take Druid until 15. Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Lion's Pounce. As you level up, see how your mounted lance charge improves. Ride your animal companion and see how he improves. (Dire bat Spirited Charge at level 5.) Spell-wise, you're not far from a full-caster-level druid, but you have some really great melee attack capabilities.
Cynric 08-17-06, 07:34 PM	I would suggest you private message Puggle halfwine. He has a halfling charger build that started as a dog rider. He could give you all the help you could possibly want, plus, he could tell you the things to avoid. If you cannot get a hold of him let me know and I will get the stuff from him, or try to.
Vlatko 08-17-06, 10:03 PM	Let me guess, you have a mounted cavalry character named Calvary? nope jsut cant spell to save my life, and i am trying druid first level now.
trollbill 08-17-06, 10:07 PM	Let me guess, you have a mounted cavalry character named Calvary? Try this instead: Druid 1, Fighter 1, then Druid the rest of the way until level 9, then pick up one more level of fighter and take Druid until 15. Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Lion's Pounce. As you level up, see how your mounted lance charge improves. Ride your animal companion and see how he improves. (Dire bat Spirited Charge at level 5.) Spell-wise, you're not far from a full-caster-level druid, but you have some really great melee attack capabilities. Assuming, of course, you don't mind taking the 20% experience penalty for doing this.
ShinAkuma2 08-17-06, 11:22 PM	Well, he could be a human or Dwarf and ignore that...but the he loses the whole "dog rider" thing. Ah well, the exp penalty only means you'll be richer than an average character of your level.
paigeoliver 08-18-06, 08:25 AM	I can't properly critique that build without knowing if you want him to be an archer or a lance character. I'd GUESS you were wanting a lance character, but halfling dog archers are great too (I have one). If it is for an archer than the dex is too low, if it is for a lance character than the dex is too high. A lance character wants spirited charge as soon as possible. I'd say mounted combat and ride-by-attack at level 1 and spirited charge at level 2. I'd also say forget the animal affinity bit, later on when your skill totals are really high you will be sorry you spent a feat on it.
kjenks 08-18-06, 01:13 PM	Assuming, of course, you don't mind taking the 20% experience penalty for doing this. I think that is actually a benefit in LG. You get 20% more gold per level and you get to play the character in the campaign for longer before the mandatory retirement.
Gwumph 09-01-06, 02:34 AM	Hi there i actually play a mounted Halfing, and in truth it is the most dangerous fighter in the party. What ever you choose as your basic class(es), Paladin should most likely be one of them. For a couple of reason, 1. smite attack 2. mount ability 3. spell ability Let me break down my character and you will what I mean. First, you do not need dex!! remember your armour doesn't way much and a riding dog or pony should be able to handle u in platemail and still be in a light load. Second: weld your lance with 2-hands, this 1.5 your str and doubles your power attack Third: everything is about the charge, so you want spirit charge asap, another good feat is reckless charge which give a +4 to charging, which makes a full power attack easier. Also remember only added damage is tripled not added die. So if you have a choice between adding 1d6 damage or adding 3 points damage through magical means take the 3 points. so right now i am Lv1 ranger Lv2 Fighter Lv1 Paladin I have a Str 14 (but since i am a Paladin i can use a wand of bullstrength) so lets assume Str 18 and I have a Char 14. my attack is BAB +4 -Halfling +1 - Str +4 -Smite +2 - Magical lance +1 - charge +2 total:+14 to attack, now minus 4 for power attack = +10 (not bad for level four character) my damage is Str +6 - Power att +8 - Smite +1 - Mag lance +1 Total: 16 16 x 3 = 48 + 3d6. So average damage from a non-critical att would be 58 points, enough to to kill most enemies at AR-4 or at least make them roll for massive damage in a single attack. Here's the clincher because your mount is only medium size you will be able to ride in most dungeons, warehouses, homes etc... (especially a dog, dogs can climb stairs, move around in confined areas easy.) This means unlike a mounted human, you will be able to stay on your mount for adventures!! Cheers Gwumph
Puggle Halfwine 09-01-06, 02:37 AM	another good feat is reckless charge which give a +4 to charging Ah, but it also decreases your AC by 4 instead of 2 when you charge and the +4 bonus to attacks replaces the +2 you get normally... so it only gives a net gain of +2. Still a nice feat, however... I'll probably take it with my primary when he hits 9th...
Gwumph 09-01-06, 08:06 AM	yea Puggle but if you have ride-by-attack hopefully the enemy won't be hitting u!!!
SgtHulka 09-01-06, 09:18 AM	Gwumph et al, I, too, have considered either a mounted gnome paladin or even a gnome barbarian. However, the thing that's stopped me thus far is the fear of grappling, particularly Improved Grab or Swallow Whole. Rogues can max out Escape Artist, and Wizards and Clerics (travel) can memorize dimension door. But I haven't figured out a way for the wee warriors to escape. How do you deal and/or plan to deal with this eventuality?
Puggle Halfwine 09-01-06, 10:36 AM	Gwumph et al, I, too, have considered either a mounted gnome paladin or even a gnome barbarian. However, the thing that's stopped me thus far is the fear of grappling, particularly Improved Grab or Swallow Whole. Rogues can max out Escape Artist, and Wizards and Clerics (travel) can memorize dimension door. But I haven't figured out a way for the wee warriors to escape. How do you deal and/or plan to deal with this eventuality? Um. Get killed. There's really no solution.. On a more serious note, having rage, full bab and buying 14 strength after racial adjustments (for a halfling) helps a lot. But the only three things that have ever come close to killing my mounted halfling were longbow crits at level 2 (two of them!) and two huge grappling things. They make Puggle scared.
kjenks 09-01-06, 12:06 PM	Take one level of sorcerer or wizard. Summon a raven familiar. Get a Cape of the Mountebank for your bird. When you need to escape from a grapple or when you need to line up for another charge, have your bird pop out of his Familiar Pocket spell and DDoor you wherever you need to go. Because it can speak, the raven is the only familiar who can activate an item with a command word. Get two Capes. Have the raven wear both. Per the DMG rules, the top Cape will be inactive. The round after it has activated the first Cape, the raven can use a move action to take off the used Cape so the other cape can be used.
qstor 09-01-06, 02:33 PM	Take one level of sorcerer or wizard. Summon a raven familiar. Get a Cape of the Mountebank for your bird. When you need to escape from a grapple or when you need to line up for another charge, have your bird pop out of his Familiar Pocket spell and DDoor you wherever you need to go. Because it can speak, the raven is the only familiar who can activate an item with a command word. Get two Capes. Have the raven wear both. Per the DMG rules, the top Cape will be inactive. The round after it has activated the first Cape, the raven can use a move action to take off the used Cape so the other cape can be used. Ahhhhhhhhhh...the smell of fine LG cheese :D Mike
JamesMaissen 09-02-06, 12:00 AM	Gwumph et al, I, too, have considered either a mounted gnome paladin or even a gnome barbarian. However, the thing that's stopped me thus far is the fear of grappling, particularly Improved Grab or Swallow Whole. Rogues can max out Escape Artist, and Wizards and Clerics (travel) can memorize dimension door. But I haven't figured out a way for the wee warriors to escape. How do you deal and/or plan to deal with this eventuality? Don't escape.. keep on killing or tie the enemy up grappling you. If you see access to 'last resort' get it for a spiked gauntlet (or armor spikes.. nothing says 'ready for grapple' like armor spikes). You are not alone and don't have to make plans like you are. Mounted characters can feel this way as they tend to rideby whenever they can (and with good reason) rather than stand toe to toe with allies. Don't let this curb your thoughts of working with the party. If you find yourself in a grapple, just attack with the light weapon. If it swallows you keep doing so (acid resistance will help immensely here as it's a good portion of the damage you'll be taking.. likely without the acid damage this will be less than the big beastie is doing to the people outside) and can even cut your way out. If it's actually fully grabbing you and pinning you then let the rest of your party wail on him and soak the damage. After all you didn't tank CON, so suck it up. -James
Paul H 09-04-06, 08:40 PM	Let me guess, you have a mounted cavalry character named Calvary? Try this instead: Druid 1, Fighter 1, then Druid the rest of the way until level 9, then pick up one more level of fighter and take Druid until 15. Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Lion's Pounce. As you level up, see how your mounted lance charge improves. Ride your animal companion and see how he improves. (Dire bat Spirited Charge at level 5.) Spell-wise, you're not far from a full-caster-level druid, but you have some really great melee attack capabilities. Hi Can't really improve on that, exept perhaps a minor tweaking of Feats. Monkey Grip allows 'normal' size lances, Natural Spell allows spellcasting in Wild Shape form. The 20% XP penalty just means you play your character for (potentially) longer. (As already posted). Don't forget to stock up on potions of Enlarge Person. DMG states that you become effective caster drinking potion - PHB (pg 36) states that any spell with yourself as effective caster can also affect your companion - "..even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal)". That way you can stay small for the tunnels etc, and have larger weapons, do more damage, etc for 'normal' combat! Cheers Paul H PS I'm playing something similar in non-LG campaign. (Human Barbarian/Druid......)
clik_ml 09-05-06, 08:58 AM	Gwumph et al, I, too, have considered either a mounted gnome paladin or even a gnome barbarian. However, the thing that's stopped me thus far is the fear of grappling, particularly Improved Grab or Swallow Whole. Rogues can max out Escape Artist, and Wizards and Clerics (travel) can memorize dimension door. But I haven't figured out a way for the wee warriors to escape. How do you deal and/or plan to deal with this eventuality? My halfling cavalry will wildshape in such an eventuality. I went 2 Ftr/X Druid, and am regretting that second fighter level. I would have gotten Power attack later yea, but wouldn't have bothered blowing a feat on practiced spellcaster (since I didn't want to wait 2 levels for item crafting... I coulda standed a 1 level wait in retrospect). - Erik ML
kjenks 09-05-06, 09:23 AM	Druid n, Fighter 1, then Druid (15-n). Where to put that Fighter level? Clearly not at level 1; you want the extra skill points far more than you want the +1 HP you'd net. Feats I'd want: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Lion's Pounce. With a straight-class deep halfling Druid, those come at (1) Mounted Combat, (3) Ride-by Attack, (6) Spirited Charge, (9) Power Attack, (12) Improved Bull Rush, (15) Shock Trooper, (after retirement) Lion's Pounce. Clearly, getting Martial Weapon Proficiency (All) earlier is good because you get double damage on your mounted lance charges. So I like this build: 1 Druid 1 Mounted Combat 2 Fighter 2 Ride-by Attack 3 Druid 2 Spirited Charge 4 Druid 3 5 Druid 4 6 Druid 5 Power Attack 7 Druid 6 8 Druid 7 9 Druid 8 Improved Bull Rush 10 Druid 9 11 Druid 10 12 Druid 11 Shock Trooper 13 Druid 12 14 Druid 13 15 Druid 14 Lion's Pounce Missing that one caster level means you can never cast level 8 spells. I have a half-orc druid who's at character level 2 in this progression. He rides his heavy horse animal companion right now. He may switch to a standard heavy warhorse later so his animal companion can be something different, then switch back to riding the animal companion when it can be a dire bat.
Paul H 09-05-06, 10:30 AM	Hi Not too sure about the Shock Trooper - suer it's nice, but nice enough for all the prereq's? As to lances - Shillelagh seems far more powerful. Especially at lower levels. Great Club now deals 3D6+1 (+1 1/2 str mod) basic damage. Multiply by two for Spirited Charge is even worse than the basic lance! Higher levels, (with access), an Ironwood Greatsword or Scimitar is better because of the Spikes spell. Human 1) Druid: Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack [Heavy Horse Companion] 2) Fighter: Spirited Charge 3) Druid: Power Attack 4) Druid: 5) Druid: [Dire Bat Animal Companion] 6) Druid: Natural Spell 7) Druid: 8) Druid: 9) Druid:Lion's Pounce 10) Druid: 11) Druid: 12) Druid: Cleave 13) Druid: 14) Druid: 15) Druid: Great Cleave (or Oaken Resilience - immunity to crits, paralysis, polymorph etc). At 10th lvl drink potion Enlarge Person & you're either charging with a Great Club (3D8+1 +str mods)*2 with Shilelagh, or Ironwood Gt Sword (3d6+9+str mods) *2 with Spikes. (Spikes also doubles threat range) ;) Your 8HD Dire bat is also now Huge! (Potion Enlarge Person works on both of you). Cheers Paul H [Edit] PS In above example,, Str 14 char doing 6D6+8 at 2nd lvl using Gt Club (Shillelagh) & Spirited Charge! (No Enlarge Person).
kjenks 09-05-06, 03:42 PM	Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge means you're probably going to hit with your Power Attack. It applies to your mounted lance Spirited Charge for 6x BAB or 10x BAB on a crit. Or it applies when you use Pounce for 1x BAB on all of your natural weapons. The large AC penalty from Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge won't matter much if you use your Ride-by Attack feat since you'll usually be out of reach of a full attack from your opponent. If you're wielding weapons, wildshape won't help you so Natural Spell won't help, either. If you're not wielding weapons, don't bother with the Fighter level; just stick to Druid all the way. The Spikes spell is nice, but it takes a standard action to cast the darned thing and you could be doing more important things with that time.
Gwumph 09-06-06, 10:03 AM	Kjenks you say u r doing a half-orc rider. How is that working out? it seems to me u would spend most of your time off your mount since a horse isn't really effective in most adventures. Also in my opinion the bull rush shock trooper route just wouldn't work with a medium mount, they don't have the size or strength bonus for it too really work. by they time u get it, alot of beasties will be large size or bigger, putting your medium mount at a severe disadvantage. p.s. does anyone know a core or perrenland mod that has wand of bullstr in its AR. my group switches out DM position, it would be a real bummer to volunteer for that "1" mod that happens to have the wand and be denied it!!
kjenks 09-06-06, 12:42 PM	Riding a large mount works fine, most of the time. There are some encounters in tight quarters, and any mounted combat character should have a back-up plan for dealing with situations in which the mount can't be used. I really don't know what "severe disadvantage" you're talking about.
Paul H 09-06-06, 07:30 PM	Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge means you're probably going to hit with your Power Attack. It applies to your mounted lance Spirited Charge for 6x BAB or 10x BAB on a crit. Or it applies when you use Pounce for 1x BAB on all of your natural weapons. The large AC penalty from Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge won't matter much if you use your Ride-by Attack feat since you'll usually be out of reach of a full attack from your opponent. If you're wielding weapons, wildshape won't help you so Natural Spell won't help, either. If you're not wielding weapons, don't bother with the Fighter level; just stick to Druid all the way. The Spikes spell is nice, but it takes a standard action to cast the darned thing and you could be doing more important things with that time. Hi Actually there are wildshape forms where you can wield weapons - Dire Ape springs to mind. So Natural Spell does have uses. More importantly Natural Spell allows versatility- you can't always take your mount with you, so sometimes it's good to be wildshaped casting spells. (Eg. Underground caverns with large lakes - become spell casting shark). I do take the point about Fighter level - but it does grant that extra feat plus weapon choices. Shillelagh is all well & good at low levels - it's the higher levels where you need to invest in a weapon, & use Spikes. Wasting Standard Action to cast spells? I don't consider using spells to dramatically increase killing power wasted. (But you don't always get a chance). Cheers Paul H
Gwumph 09-06-06, 11:20 PM	Kjenks "clipping wings" core mod, to get to the main battle you have climb down a 5' diameter manhole about 100'. A dog you could lower down there. heavy horse no. " return to undercity" both big battle take place in a tavern, or after crossing 3' wide ledge. again dog yes, horse no "retribuition" again the big hard battle takes place in a house on the second floor. dog yes, horse no I am using core mods since regionals mods are very varied. but i like a said in an earlier thread, with those three mods you would have been able to use your mount maybe once or twice (in my opinion) unless you were mounted in a medium sized creature.
JosephKell 09-07-06, 02:11 AM	Halfling Outrider is so good... Str 12, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16 Marshal 1/Paladin 5/Halfling Outrider 3 Why Marshal 1? Over the Top for cheap Charisma to Charge attack damage. Plus you can get your 3 ranks of Listen and Spot as class skills. Then your Paladin levels can just boost Diplomacy and Ride. Wisdom 12 gives you 1 Lesser Restoration per day (which is amazing with Pearls of Power 1 lying around). Or if you don't really want Unbroken Charge, Gnome works too. Gnome Cavalry (Str 12, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16) Marshal 1/Paladin X Edit: It is worth pointing out that only Halfling Paladins with levels of Halfling Outrider can have a Riding Dog as their Special mount. A Gnome Paladin rides a Warpony (weaker than a Riding Dog).
clik_ml 09-07-06, 04:45 AM	Build nit-pick. Ehhh, for that halfling marshall/pally you are much much much better off with 14 str/14 cha instead of 12str/16 cha. Reasons: 1) +2 damage versus +1 damage when wielding with 2 hands 2) +1 attack 3) power attack
kjenks 09-07-06, 06:28 AM	I am using core mods since regionals mods are very varied. but i like a said in an earlier thread, with those three mods you would have been able to use your mount maybe once or twice (in my opinion) unless you were mounted in a medium sized creature. So it's important to have other things your character can do when you can't use your mount. That's always true, no matter what size your mount is.
paigeoliver 09-07-06, 07:41 AM	I am not sure about Kjenks half-orc rider, but I have one (mine is a fighter/barbarian/marshall/beastmaster/outcast champion build) and it is working out pretty good. Although mine started out and human and has died twice, so maybe it isn't working out so well after all =). The outcast champion bit wasn't part of my original build, but after I ended up being an 18 Charisma half-orc marshall after a reincarnation it sort of seemed like a logical choice. A horse becomes a lot more effective if you have tunnel riding and get really familiar with the jumping rules (jumping over single and double squares of rough terrain is easy for any horse, while jumping OVER those pesky allies that are in your way is a lot harder unless you have a hasted horse). His druid build doesn't actually HAVE to use a horse once it has a few levels on it. He can use a Dire bat instead, which solves MOST horse problems (other than those pesky 5' corridors, which takes tunnel riding or a small character to deal with). Kjenks you say u r doing a half-orc rider. How is that working out? it seems to me u would spend most of your time off your mount since a horse isn't really effective in most adventures. Also in my opinion the bull rush shock trooper route just wouldn't work with a medium mount, they don't have the size or strength bonus for it too really work. by they time u get it, alot of beasties will be large size or bigger, putting your medium mount at a severe disadvantage. p.s. does anyone know a core or perrenland mod that has wand of bullstr in its AR. my group switches out DM position, it would be a real bummer to volunteer for that "1" mod that happens to have the wand and be denied it!!
JosephKell 09-07-06, 02:28 PM	Build nit-pick. Ehhh, for that halfling marshall/pally you are much much much better off with 14 str/14 cha instead of 12str/16 cha. Reasons: 1) +2 damage versus +1 damage when wielding with 2 hands 2) +1 attack 3) power attackYou're right. The only difference is granting +2 instead of +3 to allies on their charges.
trollbill 09-07-06, 03:19 PM	You're right. The only difference is granting +2 instead of +3 to allies on their charges. Well, that and the benefits it gives you to Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Turn Undead and Paladin spells.
JosephKell 09-07-06, 07:08 PM	Well, that and the benefits it gives you to Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, Divine Grace, Turn Undead and Paladin spells.Well, Smite Evil is Charisma to hit (but if you have the same Str + Cha, it doesn't change it) and level as damage. But your non-smites have a higher chance to hit. Lay on Hands and Divine Grace are both affected. Halflings already have the racial +1 to all saves. Turn Undead, yeah, but Paladins seem to be really bad at this (unless they play down). But a Paladin that uses Divine Might, The same total Str and Cha modifiers is the same (but more Strength increases your chance to hit). Paladins spells are Wisdom based. I wish it was Charisma based! There are so many new Paladins spells in the Spell Compendium (Rino's Rush being one of them, of course there are good PHB ones too). As an aside. Every Paladin (or Pious Templar) that can cast first level spells needs Pearls of Power 1's (although the other casters at the table are very willing to share their pearls when there is ability damage to heal) so they can do bunchs of Lesser Restorations a day... (only classes that can cast Lesser Restoration as a first level spell). But Power Attack is hard to take for a Halfling Outrider (assuming Marshal 1/Paladin 5--Marshal first for the cheaper ranks of Spot/Listen). the first three feats are Mounted Combat (1st), Ride-By Attack (3rd), and Mounted Archery (6th). Power Attack at 9th level?
haferka 09-09-06, 05:00 PM	I have a halfing Druid 3/Marshal 2... and its loads of fun. (Marshal grants +1 melee attack, +3 init/dex skill) Not sure where the build is going... I would love to have a paladin mount/druid animal companion/familiar combo... Of course I would also like to have 4 levels of Marshal for the grant move action... I use a riding dog right now.. but in the future i plan on using an ape... since it can wield a club.
paigeoliver 09-09-06, 06:52 PM	Grant move action is a great ability, but make sure you have several character who WANT to move when you use it. I remember the very first fight in the first game after I got the ability I won iniative and used it. NO ONE wanted to move. Turned out I had a whole party of spellcasters and archers!
JosephKell 09-10-06, 12:24 AM	Grant move action is a great ability, but make sure you have several character who WANT to move when you use it. I remember the very first fight in the first game after I got the ability I won iniative and used it. NO ONE wanted to move. Turned out I had a whole party of spellcasters and archers!Oh boy! All Spellcasters and Archers! But, can't the move action be used to draw something? A Marshal could also ready an action to use Grant Move Action to allow people to move. Like if the party just got hit by a Fireball. The Marshal could ready to scatter the party the next time the mage starts to cast a spell. Or if there is an enemy charger, a move would allow a tank to move in and block the charge path (turning a ride-by attack into a charge against no target).
Gelth 09-15-06, 02:21 PM	Notes from the thread: I play a Human Paladin 8/Cavalier 5 on heavy warhorse. It can be a lot of fun. Paladin levels really ramp up the charging damage with smites. Wildshaping into an animal /may/ allow you to wield weapons, depending on Judge ruling. Apes are still animals, and nothing anywhere says they can use weapons. You'll see table variation on this one. I feel if you are going mounted combat, keep your BAB as high as possible, for the big power attacks. Sure, you can get all fancy with spells, but very little beats winning initiative and just outright killing the baddie before they can go. Spellcaster builds a) can't power attack for as much and have a lower attack bonus, as well as stats that are more spread out, and b) usually take some prep at the start of combat. Paladin, Halfling Outrider, Druid/Ranger/Beastmaster and Cavalier are all things to look at, depending on the flavour you want. --Penn, Ket Triad
solbergb 09-17-06, 04:01 PM	Turned out I had a whole party of spellcasters and archers! heh..I can tell you this. All of my spellcasters and my archer would love the opportunity to move for free (further from the enemy generally, but sometimes to set up a better line/cone/shot). Move actions are precious, and more is always better :)
Qworg 09-26-06, 04:07 AM	I play a Halfling Paladin. I would go big strength, big charisma, and build it out like so: Paladin 10/Cavalier 5 (I just took my first Cav level at 11th) You have great saves, disease immunity, lay on hands, etc. High AC, high BAB. Fast mover because you're ALWAYS mounted. I have been off my mount twice in my LG career. Feats: Mounted Combat Ride By Attack Spirited Charge WF: Lance (Power Attack) (Divine Might) Two hand a medium lance. Your "job" is destroying evil creatures with Ride-By's. Example: Smite Deadly Charge @ 15th (3/day) (1d8+PAttack*2+Str*1.5+10+Weapon+Cha)*4 w/ PAttack 10, 22 Str, +4 Weapon, 20 Cha = 4d8+192 w/ Rhino Rush, Div Sacrifice, Fell the Greatest Foe = 5d8+240+5d6+(1d6/category bigger than small) @11th Smite Spirited Charge (3/day) (1d8+Str+10+10+Weapon)*3 w/ 20 Str, +2 Weapon = 3d8+81 w/ Rhino Rush, Div Sacrifice = 4d8+108 I would recommend a set of Gloves of Sure-Striking as well. Mount: I have a specially certed Celestial Riding Dog @ 11th. Feats: Dash Fleet of Foot Speed: 65 Base Spurs: 75 Charge: 150 Burst of Speed: 300 You can take a 90 degree turn in there due to Fleet of Foot.
Timlagor 09-26-06, 01:00 PM	1) Potions cannot be shared at most tables. 2) Close Quarters Combat could be very helpful in resisting grapples 3) Why would you want Monkey Grip?
Puggle Halfwine 09-26-06, 01:32 PM	Fell the Greatest Foe Where is this feat from?
pwilcox 09-26-06, 02:20 PM	Feats: Mounted Combat Ride By Attack Spirited Charge WF: Lance (Power Attack) (Divine Might) Two hand a medium lance. Your "job" is destroying evil creatures with Ride-By's. How are you using a medium lance? I don't see Monkey Grip in there. (Aside from the fact that with all those damage modifiers the difference between d6 damage and d8 damage is minimal)
Qworg 09-26-06, 03:11 PM	Lances count as one handed weapons whilst mounted. I take the penalty on my to-hit and wield larger weapons in two hands.
Qworg 09-26-06, 03:11 PM	Where is this feat from? Not a feat - a spell from Spell Compendium. Deals an extra 1d6 points on each hit for every size category a creature is larger than you.
Gelth 09-26-06, 04:16 PM	Realistically, anything that adds extra dice of damage on an attack isn't very useful to a mounted charger. In doing at least x3 damage, every extra die is 1/3 as useful as it otherwise would be. For similar reason, my Cavalier has not bothered upping the critical range on his lance, a critical takes him from x4 damage (Deadly Charge) to x6, for a x1.5 multiplier, not worth the resources. Even without that, a charge going from x3 to x5 is less than double damage. Thus, Divine Sacrifice and the like aren't really worth the time they take to activate. --Penn, Ket Triad
clik_ml 09-26-06, 05:08 PM	1) Potions cannot be shared at most tables. I suggest printing a page from the SRD with this bit highlighted if that is the case. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm "The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect)." I used to be anti-potion-share-spelling until I read that. My halfling cavalry didn't go for the medium lance option since sometimes I do get dismounted, and I sometimes need the higher to-hit modifier and can ill-afford the attack penalty (since I'm a couple BAB down on your build, as a druid/ftr).
Timlagor 09-26-06, 05:34 PM	Clik: I'm not impressed. You are only the caster for the effects of the spell. you don't actually cast it and can't determine the targets; there is only one target: the drinker. Qworg: Lances are never 1-hadned weapons. They can be wielded one-handed when mounted but this is optional.
Qworg 09-26-06, 10:12 PM	Realistically, anything that adds extra dice of damage on an attack isn't very useful to a mounted charger. In doing at least x3 damage, every extra die is 1/3 as useful as it otherwise would be. For similar reason, my Cavalier has not bothered upping the critical range on his lance, a critical takes him from x4 damage (Deadly Charge) to x6, for a x1.5 multiplier, not worth the resources. Even without that, a charge going from x3 to x5 is less than double damage. Thus, Divine Sacrifice and the like aren't really worth the time they take to activate. --Penn, Ket Triad 100% correct. If and only if I have time to buff do I put on the extra dice spells. Generally, I'm riding "naked". =0 Rhino's Rush is worth it though - can be cast right before you charge, adds another multiplier.
Qworg 09-26-06, 10:13 PM	My halfling cavalry didn't go for the medium lance option since sometimes I do get dismounted, and I sometimes need the higher to-hit modifier and can ill-afford the attack penalty (since I'm a couple BAB down on your build, as a druid/ftr). When I dismount, I'm always wielding my adamantine LS two-handed.
Qworg 09-26-06, 10:15 PM	Qworg: Lances are never 1-hadned weapons. They can be wielded one-handed when mounted but this is optional. Then I choose to optionally count them as a 1-handed weapon while mounted. I suppose I could say that they were made into small lances during conversion (since the weapon size change is what caused the issues). An extra +2 to hit is fine by me - it'll fuel my Power Attack next level. This was a RPing choice, nothing more.
clik_ml 09-27-06, 12:08 AM	Clik: I'm not impressed. You are only the caster for the effects of the spell. you don't actually cast it and can't determine the targets; there is only one target: the drinker. Qworg: Lances are never 1-hadned weapons. They can be wielded one-handed when mounted but this is optional. You're effectively the caster. An argument can be made that if you are effectively a caster then you can effectively share spells. I'm just saying, I was on the "no" side until reading that bit, and I wouldn't be surprised if many DMs just need that nudge to okay it if one can produce the citation. I'm totally with qworg on this. You use it as a 1-handed weapon, then there is no reason why you can't biggie-size it to a medium weapon to be 2-handed with a penalty. There are vexing discrepancies in terms between one handed weapons and weapons that can be wielded one-handed, but I wouldn't be surprised if qworg never ever ever ever runs into a DM who doesn't allow him to use the medium lance.
paigeoliver 09-27-06, 08:06 AM	Unless he mentions it specifically I doubt he would even run into a DM who knew he was using a medium lance. Charging characters tend to do a lot of damage and his is nowhere near the optimal high damage charging build. A charger who has to power attack for full and use smites and buffs will never match one who can put out damage in the first round, and every round afterwards. Marshall based lance characters do the crazy damage much earlier in their career and much more reliably. Being able to add charisma to charge damage every time (which is tripled like everything else), beats limited smites any day. Even if he had monkey grip it would still be less effective than having a lance his own size. He would miss less, or be able to power attack for more. There are vexing discrepancies in terms between one handed weapons and weapons that can be wielded one-handed, but I wouldn't be surprised if qworg never ever ever ever runs into a DM who doesn't allow him to use the medium lance.
clik_ml 09-27-06, 09:03 AM	He would miss less, or be able to power attack for more. I definitely wouldn't want the attack penalty, but at the upper end depending upon the build, your attack bonus is probably decent enough that you can afford to full power attack and take a penalty here or there too, since you aren't usually worrying about iterative attacks (i.e. not lion's pouncing). If you have shock trooper, then you definitely have more attack bonus than you know what to do with, and every bit of extra damage is helpful. Heck, that halfling paladin/cav there is packing a +15 charge attack with a +5 medium lance, and that's without any buffs or BAB or flank or anything really. On a side note, I'm waiting for some BBEG to use the backbiter spell and ruin some spirited charger's day (hopefully not mine). I don't know of any spirited charger worth their salt who can survive getting attacked with their own spirited charge. I give props to qworg on keeping his celestial mount alive. After a very long string of never losing a mount (1 mount death in 35 ARs, it even survived a coup de gras once!), I've lost 4 mounts in combat in the last 2 adventures (4HD riding dog x2, summoned dire wolfx1, summoned hippogriffx1). I needs my rhino mount, stat! (saving up for my elephant figurine, should have enough in 8-10 ARs or so. If I hadn't gone all out on some dragoncraft armor, an amulet of health and some other tidbits I could be sporting that elephant now, *sigh*)
kjenks 09-27-06, 12:25 PM	On a side note, I'm waiting for some BBEG to use the backbiter spell and ruin some spirited charger's day (hopefully not mine). I don't know of any spirited charger worth their salt who can survive getting attacked with their own spirited charge. Man, your charger buddies need more HP. My 14th level fighter mutt, Dmitri, has 223 HP and does 3d8+111 on a Spirited Charge with Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge. With a Bull's Strength spell, his HP go up to 251, so he could hit himself twice without dying, as long as he doesn't crit himself with his +1 Keen cold iron lance. Dmitri uses the Figurine of Wondrous Power: Ebony Fly -- core access from COR3-19 Folly. It's "died" 13 times so far.
Timlagor 09-27-06, 12:32 PM	Backbiter doesn't inflict Crits so you'd be safe on that score.
kjenks 09-27-06, 02:39 PM	Backbiter doesn't inflict Crits so you'd be safe on that score. That's a relief! 3d8+111 would hurt, but it certainly wouldn't be the most damage this character has taken in a single round. A crit for 5d8+185 would definitely get my full attention. I wryly remember the time our cleric cast a Heal and I said, "Thanks. Got any more of those? I'm still down about 60."
Qworg 09-27-06, 05:39 PM	Yes, my character is very much a glass cannon - I have 81 HP. My smite doesn't apply to me though, so I MAY be able to survive (doubtful when I start to PA). However, Backbiter is as rare as cavalry characters (thank god). Marshals didn't exist when I started him. =) My lance damage is crazy enough to be questioned at every other new table. Besides, I love being a paladin - a halfling Paladin of Heironeous. Paige - I do mention I wield oversized weapons as the part of every character description or introduction. I mean, my longswords are bigger than I am. I still do put out damage even when I don't smite: 3d8+30 or so at my level, 3d8+125 with Power Attacking/Div Sac at level 15 (est).
paigeoliver 09-27-06, 06:24 PM	Since you have left paladin for good you might want to consider taking your next level as marshall and add that charisma bonus to charge now and for the rest of your career. It probably beats whatever that last level of Cavalier would have given you for 7 or 8 modules.
clik_ml 09-28-06, 08:03 AM	Cavaliers can multiclass back to paladin, so if he planned on playing in the high level campaign (someday, somewhere) he might not want to burn that bridge with a level or two of marshal however.
paigeoliver 09-28-06, 08:24 PM	Yes, but I wouldn't make any character choices in the real campaign based around what may or may not happen in the high level campaign. At his current level it will be two more years until he retires (could be longer), then the high level campaign is supposed to be only 4 modules a year. If he plays only that character he will be looking at 2 years of play for every level he gains. That means he would be looking at year 9 before level 16 and year 11 before he hit 17th level. Will Living Greyhawk be around in 5 years? Will he be playing D&D in 5 years? Will the (now 6 months old with no modules) High Level Campaign be around in 5 years? Not to mention the fact that he has already gotten to the point in the Paladin class where it loses it's appeal for multiclass characters. Other minor details is that the 5th level of Cavalier isn't all that good, and swapping that for a single marshall level works out better. I'd personally recommend switching to Paladin 10/ Cavalier 4 / Marshall 1 and taking the Marshall level as his next level before going back to Cavalier. His 20 Charisma means 15 more damage on his charge every time, without using up things that have limited uses.
Qworg 09-29-06, 02:47 PM	I very well may do that. The reason I wanted to go 10/5 with Paladin/Cavalier was that I would have 3 Deadly charges to go along with 3 Smite Evils. I guess I can wait until 16th for that. =P What's this Marshal bonus?
clik_ml 09-29-06, 03:48 PM	At first level Marshals get a minor aura of their choice, where they get to add their charisma bonus as a competence modifier to certain rolls. One of the auras allowed is "Over the Top" and that lets you (and your allies) add that charisma modifier to the damage of charge attacks. The Marshal base class is in the Miniatures Handbook and definitely worth skimming for your purposes. Downside is that they are a 3/4 BAB class, so you lose a BAB, but still come out way ahead on the damage output. 2nd level of Marshal offers a second aura (a major aura, which only gives a +1 boost) which can be applied to all melee damage. Nice thing is that your allies get these bonuses too, so if you ever team up with another cavalry, then you guys are really going to be smoking (my druid cavalry is sad to have never met a marshal with over the top, maybe he'll get to mooch off of Paige's someday).
Qworg 10-01-06, 04:17 AM	I'm pretty convinced (especially because I'll be 16th before I get my 3rd Deadly Charge). Actually, what I REALLY want is access to one of those +10 to hit rods. I get PA at 12th, and that would really help. "Here. Hold this and activate it in the first round. Don't worry, I'm going after you. And don't get in my way." "I deadly smite charge that guy. I Power Attack for 20. I cast Rhino Rush as a Swift Action." 5d8+325(!) =0
paigeoliver 10-01-06, 06:07 AM	My "Over the Top" Marshall is has been really nasty so far, but she has also been a glass cannon. 5th level, died twice already, and in any given fight I am the one most likely to go down. Unless we are in a wide open field, in which case I become fairly untouchable. Of course I play really aggressively and take a lot of risks, like jumping the horse over the line of grunts to hit the big bad and hoping my friends can save me before all the grunts get me. Of course the most fun calvalry action is to be had in modules where the author/dm didn't expect anyone to have tunnel riding, or to feed their horse potions of spider climb so we can ride on the ceiling. I have become more than happy with my damage output though, so now I am going to develop the other side of the character and do the full Outcast Champion prestige class. Even WITH Tunnel Riding I still don't get horse action everywhere, so being a passive buffer who still melees decently (despite my 22 STR I am usually shown up by other fighters when unmounted, likely due to the fact that my 10 CON means that some wizards have more hit points than I do) will be helpful. At first level Marshals get a minor aura of their choice, where they get to add their charisma bonus as a competence modifier to certain rolls. One of the auras allowed is "Over the Top" and that lets you (and your allies) add that charisma modifier to the damage of charge attacks. The Marshal base class is in the Miniatures Handbook and definitely worth skimming for your purposes. Downside is that they are a 3/4 BAB class, so you lose a BAB, but still come out way ahead on the damage output. 2nd level of Marshal offers a second aura (a major aura, which only gives a +1 boost) which can be applied to all melee damage. Nice thing is that your allies get these bonuses too, so if you ever team up with another cavalry, then you guys are really going to be smoking (my druid cavalry is sad to have never met a marshal with over the top, maybe he'll get to mooch off of Paige's someday).
budleiser 10-01-06, 07:17 PM	Hi, My name is Bud, and im a Calvarly-holic. (Hi Bud) It was 2 weeks since my last charge, but then I Roleplayed today and performed a charge...LOL I went Rog1/Marshal2/Fighter2/Ranger1/BM1 I shot myself in the foot twice. I took a level of rogue thinking I would go "Ride by wand" with my character adding sneak die to wand touch attacks. And for my marshal aura I chose Dex (+3 to everyones init) and then salvaged the character by going Lance Delivery System (LDS) My next level will be Marshal 3 taking over the top aura so its all good. I don't think Halfling Outrider is worth it, wasting a feat to take mounted archery and all. HO is mostly (only?) for unbroken charge. Its much easier to just take Beast Master 1 and get your Dire Bat. (Thanks James) Its sad the post titled "Calvary" is becoming a huge get together for all the Calvarly discussion. Makes us look Int8.
Gelth 10-02-06, 12:11 AM	I give props to qworg on keeping his celestial mount alive. After a very long string of never losing a mount (1 mount death in 35 ARs, it even survived a coup de gras once!), I've lost 4 mounts in combat in the last 2 adventures (4HD riding dog x2, summoned dire wolfx1, summoned hippogriffx1). I needs my rhino mount, stat! I started my character on my first AR with a light warhorse, and quickly upgraded to heavy. I have never used another mount than heavy warhorses since, through Windrider levels and now after conversion Paladin/Cavalier (13th total). I've had a mount die precisely once, partly because I take very good care of it. It has its own amulet of health, for instance. I've not had a certed mount since the last conversion, partly because I've never seen access to one that could become a Paladin mount. --Penn, Ket Triad