Campaign cards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Campaign cards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
loonacy
06-28-06, 06:46 PM I just recieved my first set of campaign cards and I got a Bane of my enemies, Second wind, and Ameteur inquisitive. The cards seem to be only written for an ebborn campaign. I know I have seen a bane of my enimies card that was written for a greyhawk campaign or a eberron campaign (i.e. use an action points or roll and extra 1d6 for damage) By cars only state only action points. Does anyone know what a second wind or ameteur inquisitive would do in a greyhawk campaign.
Cynric
06-28-06, 09:47 PM The campaign cards that can be used are listed in the LGCS near the back, do not have the page number on me at the moment.

The main beef I have is that the cards that are most useful in LG do not seem to be in the new sets. Hence, new players lose out unless they can beg or borrow some from older players. For example, I have an 11th level druid who routinely is forced to take feign suprise, because my small number of cards does not have anything else. Meanwhile, other players at the table who have been playing since the start of the Campaign have heroe's strikes and other useful cards that my lower characters could use.
kculli
07-03-06, 11:25 AM I agree. Thank goodness that these cards normally have little overall effect toward the outcome of the game, because it appears that the only reason for their existence is to sell more merchandise - not to serve the player community. How else would you explain the fact that only one card in seven (on average) is useful in Living Greyhawk - by far the most successful and far-ranging campaign in the RPGA? Many more players play Living Greyhawk than any other "living" campaign (to include Eberron), and yet 85% of the RPGA campaign cards in the last two years have been geared toward the Eberron universe. Doing the math, at 20 player points per set of three cards, 2 points per core Living Greyhawk module, 4 hours per game session, and a one in seven chance of getting a useable card...

... that means that on average, a player must spend 120 Hours gaming in order to ensure he has one campaign card which is useable in the Living Greyhawk Campaign. That's 30 modules and enough hours to equal five days of nonstop gaming - just for one card. "Player Rewards", indeed.

I brought up this issue to the Wizards of the Coast representative directly, at this year's Winter Fantasy - his reply was "You can always trade cards with other players, or buy them on E-Bay." The problem is this philosophy has some flaws. Nobody is going to want to trade a good card that is out of print - they'd rather use it themselves. As you mentioned, many of the good ones are in sets that are 3-years-plus old and have not been reprinted, so demand for those is very high. You won't see any of those on E-bay. And even if you do, how is BUYING a campaign card on E-Bay (prices currently run $5 - $20 per card) construed as any sort of a "Player Reward"?

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a rewards program for frequent and loyal players. And I do use the cards when I can get them. But I think if we really want to have a rewards program that incentivizes players to register, play and judge frequently, we really need to give them something they can use. The upcoming "Xen'drik" set of campaign cards, for example, has one card (out of 10) which is useable in Living Greyhawk. I believe those percentages should be at least loosely based on the number of regular players in a campaign. If Living Greyhawk has 70% of the organized play members, then they should have 70% of the campaign cards useable to them. It's only fair. And making them useable in LG doesn't mean that they can't be used in Eberron. Why not make them useable in BOTH campaigns? Then they would truly be able to be called REWARDS.

- Kevin
Lomiat
07-03-06, 12:23 PM I disagree that the rewards cards don't have much impact on adventures. Certain cards make tremendous impacts, and Feign Surprise is at the top of the list. Last year, when I saw a table full of PCs about to retire play several Feign Surprise cards each (in order to run from the interactive's very scary advanced, templated dragon), it became pretty clear how the card can change the shape of the game. I believe, too, that one or more modules might specifically write surprise rounds that introduce chances for players to play the card if they wish.

Other cards I've seen that have proven quite useful allow PCs to reroll failed saves, alter the energy type for a given spell (to anything: so = sonic), swap a scroll for any other legal scroll, and maximize and empower a healing spell.

When you have cards this powerful, they can overshadow some character builds. So in some respects, I don't mind that we're not getting new cards that make some aspects of character creation redundant, but then again, it just smarts a little more when we newer players who don't have 3 or 4 Feign Surprise aren't getting *anything* that we can use...
Mommy was an Orc
07-03-06, 12:37 PM When you have cards this powerful, they can overshadow some character builds. So in some respects, I don't mind that we're not getting new cards that make some aspects of character creation redundant, but then again, it just smarts a little more when we newer players who don't have 3 or 4 Feign Surprise aren't getting *anything* that we can use...

Yeah, I find that annoying too. There should be a rule in Living Greyhawk where you can use a reward card for say 3 to 4 very minor benefits if you don't use a reward card as printed elsewhere in the mod. Something along the lines of a +1 to hit, +1 to any save, +2 to any skill check, added before you know the details of the roll.
SteveMND
07-03-06, 12:49 PM But I think if we really want to have a rewards program that incentivizes players to register, play and judge frequently, we really need to give them something they can use.

Yes, but you have to realize, the Rewards cards are designed to promote the RPGA's latest campaign, period. The Circle has graciously decided to make some of the cards legal in the LG campaign, but they were never designed by the RPGA to be used as such. It's an advertising program, and they wish to advertise their newest product (currently, Xen'rik).
kculli
07-03-06, 01:18 PM Here's what's on the WOTC "D&D Rewards Program" page for campaign cards:

Campaign Cards unleash a dynamic way to maximize your play. These full-color, collectable gaming gems grant your character special perks and interesting play opportunities in three ways:

By offering expanded character choices during creation;
By granting special once-per-adventure benefits, giving you the advantage during play;
And by granting supplementary game options for later character development.
Campaign Cards are specifically tied to the D&D Campaigns program, but you can adapt them for use in other campaigns -- even your home campaign. Play with them, collect them, trade them, or sell them, just make sure you sign up for D&D Rewards to earn points toward your free Campaign Cards.

The RPGA creates a new set of cards for each duration. The cards you earn during a duration are selected randomly from the new set.

It says nothing there about advertising or promotion. It does not mention the words "Eberron" or "Xen'drik" even once. It seems to me to indicate that I will be able to use these cards in all of my RPGA organized play, which I cannot. Now, we all implicitly know that there is a moneymaking angle to this program (emphasizing the latest roleplaying game additions and campaigns), but it is specifically advertised as being a rewards program for frequent (and registered) RPGA members. There are some good, useable cards out there, true - but all but one of the game-changing cards that Lomiat mentions have been out of print for at least two years and never reprinted.

- K.

P.S. - Even if the goal is to advertise "Xen'drik" - why can't they publish cards that are useable in BOTH campaign worlds? That would satisfy both audiences and promote the new material at the same time.
JohnduBois
07-03-06, 04:08 PM IIRC, the "Living Campaigns" and "D&D Campaigns" are two different things. The "D&D Campaigns" label is used for campaigns more closely controlled by HQ, such as Legacy of the Green Regent, Mark of Heroes, and, most recently, Xen'drik.

Also, just because the descriptive web page doesn't mention something doesn't mean it's not true. Every set of Campaign Cards released as part of the Rewards Program has been tied to the most recently released D&D Campaign. While the explicit intent (to reward players for playing lots of RPGA games) is there, the fact that the cards are, sometimes exclusively, attached to that Campaign suggests an implicit intent to encourage players of other campaigns to play the most recently released adventuring opportunities.

Personally, I don't find it offensive at all that the campaign cards aren't playable in LG (or that every single DM rewards template seems to be a 30' cone). I don't play for the Reward cards - I play because I enjoy LG. I see the campaign cards as something I get for free for doing something I already love. In that light, I'm losing nothing by getting useless cards, and I'm gaining everything for getting useful ones. I'm anxiously awaiting the new list of LG-legal cards so that I can see if my Raging Spell and new Bane of My Enemies become legal. If they do, great. If not, I'm in the same place where I started.
Lomiat
07-03-06, 04:41 PM I agree that the cards are unnecessary, and that, therefore, anything is better than nonthing. That being said, I'd still prefer to be able to use some of the cards I receive in the mail (rather than find that the whole stack is useless to me), and I, too, am hoping to be able to use Raging Spell soon.
Paul H
07-03-06, 05:37 PM Hi

But why issue cards at all? If it's a Player Rewards scheme, why not issue something else? Limited Edition Dice, special miniatures, discounts on products, etc.

Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's unique & useful. Even gimmicky.

Cheers
Paul H
JohnduBois
07-03-06, 05:45 PM But they do issue special paints of miniatures through the D&D Rewards program. They go to DMs.
ithardin
07-04-06, 12:37 AM I would like to see LG cards instead of this steady assault of Eberron cards. I understand wanting to push your latest product, but you need to support and reward your old reliables. I have no desire to use "action points" for anything and the Eberron campaign is too steampunk for me to enjoy it :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
loonacy 06-28-06, 06:46 PM	I just recieved my first set of campaign cards and I got a Bane of my enemies, Second wind, and Ameteur inquisitive. The cards seem to be only written for an ebborn campaign. I know I have seen a bane of my enimies card that was written for a greyhawk campaign or a eberron campaign (i.e. use an action points or roll and extra 1d6 for damage) By cars only state only action points. Does anyone know what a second wind or ameteur inquisitive would do in a greyhawk campaign.
Cynric 06-28-06, 09:47 PM	The campaign cards that can be used are listed in the LGCS near the back, do not have the page number on me at the moment. The main beef I have is that the cards that are most useful in LG do not seem to be in the new sets. Hence, new players lose out unless they can beg or borrow some from older players. For example, I have an 11th level druid who routinely is forced to take feign suprise, because my small number of cards does not have anything else. Meanwhile, other players at the table who have been playing since the start of the Campaign have heroe's strikes and other useful cards that my lower characters could use.
kculli 07-03-06, 11:25 AM	I agree. Thank goodness that these cards normally have little overall effect toward the outcome of the game, because it appears that the only reason for their existence is to sell more merchandise - not to serve the player community. How else would you explain the fact that only one card in seven (on average) is useful in Living Greyhawk - by far the most successful and far-ranging campaign in the RPGA? Many more players play Living Greyhawk than any other "living" campaign (to include Eberron), and yet 85% of the RPGA campaign cards in the last two years have been geared toward the Eberron universe. Doing the math, at 20 player points per set of three cards, 2 points per core Living Greyhawk module, 4 hours per game session, and a one in seven chance of getting a useable card... ... that means that on average, a player must spend 120 Hours gaming in order to ensure he has one campaign card which is useable in the Living Greyhawk Campaign. That's 30 modules and enough hours to equal five days of nonstop gaming - just for one card. "Player Rewards", indeed. I brought up this issue to the Wizards of the Coast representative directly, at this year's Winter Fantasy - his reply was "You can always trade cards with other players, or buy them on E-Bay." The problem is this philosophy has some flaws. Nobody is going to want to trade a good card that is out of print - they'd rather use it themselves. As you mentioned, many of the good ones are in sets that are 3-years-plus old and have not been reprinted, so demand for those is very high. You won't see any of those on E-bay. And even if you do, how is BUYING a campaign card on E-Bay (prices currently run $5 - $20 per card) construed as any sort of a "Player Reward"? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a rewards program for frequent and loyal players. And I do use the cards when I can get them. But I think if we really want to have a rewards program that incentivizes players to register, play and judge frequently, we really need to give them something they can use. The upcoming "Xen'drik" set of campaign cards, for example, has one card (out of 10) which is useable in Living Greyhawk. I believe those percentages should be at least loosely based on the number of regular players in a campaign. If Living Greyhawk has 70% of the organized play members, then they should have 70% of the campaign cards useable to them. It's only fair. And making them useable in LG doesn't mean that they can't be used in Eberron. Why not make them useable in BOTH campaigns? Then they would truly be able to be called REWARDS. - Kevin
Lomiat 07-03-06, 12:23 PM	I disagree that the rewards cards don't have much impact on adventures. Certain cards make tremendous impacts, and Feign Surprise is at the top of the list. Last year, when I saw a table full of PCs about to retire play several Feign Surprise cards each (in order to run from the interactive's very scary advanced, templated dragon), it became pretty clear how the card can change the shape of the game. I believe, too, that one or more modules might specifically write surprise rounds that introduce chances for players to play the card if they wish. Other cards I've seen that have proven quite useful allow PCs to reroll failed saves, alter the energy type for a given spell (to anything: so = sonic), swap a scroll for any other legal scroll, and maximize and empower a healing spell. When you have cards this powerful, they can overshadow some character builds. So in some respects, I don't mind that we're not getting new cards that make some aspects of character creation redundant, but then again, it just smarts a little more when we newer players who don't have 3 or 4 Feign Surprise aren't getting anything that we can use...
Mommy was an Orc 07-03-06, 12:37 PM	When you have cards this powerful, they can overshadow some character builds. So in some respects, I don't mind that we're not getting new cards that make some aspects of character creation redundant, but then again, it just smarts a little more when we newer players who don't have 3 or 4 Feign Surprise aren't getting anything that we can use... Yeah, I find that annoying too. There should be a rule in Living Greyhawk where you can use a reward card for say 3 to 4 very minor benefits if you don't use a reward card as printed elsewhere in the mod. Something along the lines of a +1 to hit, +1 to any save, +2 to any skill check, added before you know the details of the roll.
SteveMND 07-03-06, 12:49 PM	But I think if we really want to have a rewards program that incentivizes players to register, play and judge frequently, we really need to give them something they can use. Yes, but you have to realize, the Rewards cards are designed to promote the RPGA's latest campaign, period. The Circle has graciously decided to make some of the cards legal in the LG campaign, but they were never designed by the RPGA to be used as such. It's an advertising program, and they wish to advertise their newest product (currently, Xen'rik).
kculli 07-03-06, 01:18 PM	Here's what's on the WOTC "D&D Rewards Program" page for campaign cards: Campaign Cards unleash a dynamic way to maximize your play. These full-color, collectable gaming gems grant your character special perks and interesting play opportunities in three ways: By offering expanded character choices during creation; By granting special once-per-adventure benefits, giving you the advantage during play; And by granting supplementary game options for later character development. Campaign Cards are specifically tied to the D&D Campaigns program, but you can adapt them for use in other campaigns -- even your home campaign. Play with them, collect them, trade them, or sell them, just make sure you sign up for D&D Rewards to earn points toward your free Campaign Cards. The RPGA creates a new set of cards for each duration. The cards you earn during a duration are selected randomly from the new set. It says nothing there about advertising or promotion. It does not mention the words "Eberron" or "Xen'drik" even once. It seems to me to indicate that I will be able to use these cards in all of my RPGA organized play, which I cannot. Now, we all implicitly know that there is a moneymaking angle to this program (emphasizing the latest roleplaying game additions and campaigns), but it is specifically advertised as being a rewards program for frequent (and registered) RPGA members. There are some good, useable cards out there, true - but all but one of the game-changing cards that Lomiat mentions have been out of print for at least two years and never reprinted. - K. P.S. - Even if the goal is to advertise "Xen'drik" - why can't they publish cards that are useable in BOTH campaign worlds? That would satisfy both audiences and promote the new material at the same time.
JohnduBois 07-03-06, 04:08 PM	IIRC, the "Living Campaigns" and "D&D Campaigns" are two different things. The "D&D Campaigns" label is used for campaigns more closely controlled by HQ, such as Legacy of the Green Regent, Mark of Heroes, and, most recently, Xen'drik. Also, just because the descriptive web page doesn't mention something doesn't mean it's not true. Every set of Campaign Cards released as part of the Rewards Program has been tied to the most recently released D&D Campaign. While the explicit intent (to reward players for playing lots of RPGA games) is there, the fact that the cards are, sometimes exclusively, attached to that Campaign suggests an implicit intent to encourage players of other campaigns to play the most recently released adventuring opportunities. Personally, I don't find it offensive at all that the campaign cards aren't playable in LG (or that every single DM rewards template seems to be a 30' cone). I don't play for the Reward cards - I play because I enjoy LG. I see the campaign cards as something I get for free for doing something I already love. In that light, I'm losing nothing by getting useless cards, and I'm gaining everything for getting useful ones. I'm anxiously awaiting the new list of LG-legal cards so that I can see if my Raging Spell and new Bane of My Enemies become legal. If they do, great. If not, I'm in the same place where I started.
Lomiat 07-03-06, 04:41 PM	I agree that the cards are unnecessary, and that, therefore, anything is better than nonthing. That being said, I'd still prefer to be able to use some of the cards I receive in the mail (rather than find that the whole stack is useless to me), and I, too, am hoping to be able to use Raging Spell soon.
Paul H 07-03-06, 05:37 PM	Hi But why issue cards at all? If it's a Player Rewards scheme, why not issue something else? Limited Edition Dice, special miniatures, discounts on products, etc. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's unique & useful. Even gimmicky. Cheers Paul H
JohnduBois 07-03-06, 05:45 PM	But they do issue special paints of miniatures through the D&D Rewards program. They go to DMs.
ithardin 07-04-06, 12:37 AM	I would like to see LG cards instead of this steady assault of Eberron cards. I understand wanting to push your latest product, but you need to support and reward your old reliables. I have no desire to use "action points" for anything and the Eberron campaign is too steampunk for me to enjoy it :)