Post/Author/DateTime	Post
echoota 09-09-06, 05:50 AM	I'm finally going to be able to play Blood on Bright Sands and fire up a Centaur and so I was just wondering what veteran Centaur players can suggest in terms of builds? I'm leaning towards a less focused stat distribution so that by the time I'm seventh level I can have a lot of options open. I don't think I just want to aim for the strongest and most uber fighting machine possible. One idea that seems appealing is to go strait into Monk and stay there for quite awhile. Your stats for a Monk would be incredible, far better than any other race, and once you add on magic items they go beyond incredible. Other obvious builds would be Druid and/or Ranger, but if someone has something odd and interesting I'd like to hear it.
GrahamWills 09-09-06, 10:08 AM	Monk would certainly be a reasonable class for a dip. But being large and four-footed might limit a lot of fun monk things; climbing, tumbling, and other movement-based skills. Monks aren't generally damage-dealers, and while yes, you'd make a very fast and nasty flurrier, I think you can get similar effects as a ranger: * Horseshoes with +30 speed are better than a monk (they don't stack) * Two-weapon fighting same as flurrying (actually better because of BAB progression) * Medium armor is better than your wisdom bonus will give. You miss out on evasion and fort saves (which you will need!), but you also have the nice situation of being in your favored class, and so can dip fighter for 2 feats with no xp loss. So, with that in mind, I'm going to suggest that you pick a completely different class, basically because I'd really like to see a more fun centaur than one who just stares into space wating for combat to start. Once you can take class levels, you'll be an ugodly good fighter no matter what, so why not take a class that is not often used in combat and make it useful? Marshall might be a fun one. A classic (greek) centaur would be a bard. Another fun one might be favored soul. Take a lot of CHA and when you can take class levels, there's darn few non-sneaky classes that you couldn't be effective in. As and afterthought, think what your intimidate factor would be -- a large, melee-type creature with good CHA. Might be fun.
JosephKell 09-09-06, 02:50 PM	If you did Monk, I would recommend being a Grappler. You could do Centaur 6 (4 HD)/Warmage 2/Dragon Disciple X. It's tricky, but it works (without a wild amount Intelligence investment I mean). It keeps stacking the Strength bonuses. Dragon Disciple helps maximize your Natural Attacks (I think Centaur might be able to take Multiattack, but don't quote me on it) since it gives more strength to damage. Remember, you can Power Attack with Natural Attacks! In the Warmage vs Sorcerer debate you basically have to choose between all those various Warmage spells (and Light Armor use) and Blades of Fire. Blades of Fire is Sor/Wiz 1 but Warmage 2. If Blades of Fire applies to natural attacks too, it might be something to consider. But a Warmage would get Fist of Stone for +6 enhancement to Strength for 10 rounds (doesn't stack with Ogre Gauntlets or Giant Belt), or can pop off Magic Missiles/Burning Hands/Lesser Orb of ___/etc. Fighter is a straight forward option that gives you feats. Plus it lets you use Full-Plate to keep uping your AC. Being a Centaur is rough. Your Hit Dice is d8, you don't get them as fast, and... well yeah... It's rough. Make sure you have 14 Constitution (I am sure you probably are do, but still). Don't skimp on defensive items (remember, it is cheaper to buy scrolls and have other players buff you than it is to raise dead). Don't just consider buff scrolls though, imagine the look on a Wizard's face if you hand him a few scrolls of Ray of Enfeeblement (no save, just a ranged touch). Getting rid of 1d6+1 Str on an enemy tank is nice. -2 Str is -1 to hit on melee bruisers, right? That might be -5% to hit, but that is like -10% damage (when they miss, they don't do damage). But that scroll could do away with as much as 7 points of Str (which is either -3 or -4 to hit and damage, could be as much as -6 to damage in the case of 2Handers). a CL 1 Scroll of Ray of Enfeeblement is 25 gold. Beware of Enlarge Person. It may make you more deadly, but it drops your AC by 2. Later on this might not be an issue, but when you are asked to tank at levels 1-4, it could get scary (give your lower hit points). In the long run, I think Centaur have a lot of hit points (especially if you go Dragon Disciple), but it is getting to that point that is tough. Good luck.
paigeoliver 09-09-06, 03:04 PM	A centaur doesn't have to worry about enlarge person, since that spell does not work on them. Enlarge person works on humanoids, centaurs are monstrous humanoids. I'm not aware of any spells that can enlarge a centaur. There are a a decent number of spells that don't work on centaurs because of that little detail. Pretty much everything with "person" in the name, and a smattering of other ones as well.
Iswald 09-10-06, 04:14 AM	You could do Centaur 6 (4 HD)/Warmage 2/Dragon Disciple X. It's tricky, but it works (without a wild amount Intelligence investment I mean). It keeps stacking the Strength bonuses. Dragon Disciple helps maximize your Natural Attacks (I think Centaur might be able to take Multiattack, but don't quote me on it) since it gives more strength to damage. Remember, you can Power Attack with Natural Attacks! Multiattack is NPC only. Typically, I'd advise against spellcasting centaurs since you lose too many caster levels. But, with the wisdom bonus, centaurs aren't too bad with some PrCs that use wisdom for casting.
Lupo 09-10-06, 08:14 AM	I'm finally going to be able to play Blood on Bright Sands and fire up a Centaur and so I was just wondering what veteran Centaur players can suggest in terms of builds? I'm leaning towards a less focused stat distribution so that by the time I'm seventh level I can have a lot of options open. I don't think I just want to aim for the strongest and most uber fighting machine possible. One idea that seems appealing is to go strait into Monk and stay there for quite awhile. Your stats for a Monk would be incredible, far better than any other race, and once you add on magic items they go beyond incredible. Other obvious builds would be Druid and/or Ranger, but if someone has something odd and interesting I'd like to hear it. as you will not have to many feats and skill points to spare i have looked up some combos that don't require to many hard prerequisites:) and as full BAB progression as possible. allways consider taking improved critical, and wielding a scimitar/falchion, as your high strength bonus will get doubled on the crits (as long as the subject can be critted). get as many vials of "oil of bless weapon" as you can :) for these opportunities. druid is a good choice, when you finally reach level 11 your druid wildshape will open up all those adventures "unsuited for centaurs" for you, not a bad idea, since even the bright sands story arc has some parts where a centaur is in trouble. so look at something like centaur 6, druid 5 and then barbarian 1 followed by bear warrior, not a lot of spellcasting but some solid abilities. prepare those druid spells that buff yourself. or you can go an undead destroyer specialist with one level of cleric (something with the travel domain, you need your mobility) and then "hunter of the undead". or go occult slayer, threaten 10-ft with a reach weapon or use a large longbow and the squares around you with your hooves. holy liberator might suit a centaur's opposition to rary:) pious templar is always a good choice, with all the offered goodies ;) but needs some more feats wise. hope that advice helps, ciao martin m.
Japangirl 09-10-06, 04:46 PM	If Blades of Fire is Warmage 2, he would have to take four levels of warmage to be able to cast it. That's the biggest problem I see for that build :).
Gelth 09-15-06, 12:36 PM	I considered a build going for Divine Crusader of Kord with Competition domain, but eventually discarded it. I now wish I had gone that route just to be different, but I don't have the spellcasting stat necessary to make it worthwhile. The spell list including Divine Power at 4th and Righteous Might at 5th would be what would make it worth while, a Righteous Mighted Centaur would be a frightening sight. --Penn, Ket Triad
kjenks 09-15-06, 12:54 PM	After you finish out your Centaur levels, take a level or two of Barbarian, two levels of Fighter, getting your BAB to +7, then take a one-level dip into Bear Warrior. When you get into combat situations where your large size is a problem, you can rage yourself into a medium-sized black bear shape as a free action. Fighter and Barbarian abilities stack well with Centaur. After Bear Warrior 1, stick to Fighter the rest of the way. The mismatch between Fighter and Barbarian levels should give you a 20% XP penalty, which is good in LG. Use your Fighter bonus feats to augment whatever course your feats have taken during your Centaur levels. One level of Barbarian is probably all you'll ever need. Select the Extra Rage feat and you'll be able to rage in almost every LG combat, and you'll usually have one rage left over to shrink down for tight tunnels, human-sized doors, etc.
UMiskatonic 09-21-06, 04:47 PM	I came to the conclusion that all the other possible Bright Sands characters were more effective. After seeing a few centaurs in action, I'm really not impressed. If you insist, I'd recommend a grapple or trip build. With size and strength, you'll be good at both of those. Maybe a level of monk, and then a level of fighter, and then exotic weapon master: spiked chain? The classical route wouldn't be so bad either. Archers are pretty easy to build, and you could go for large greatbow for BIG arrow damage. Exotic Weapon Master or Order of the Bow initiate gives you close combat shot.
Mommy was an Orc 09-22-06, 05:26 PM	I came to the conclusion that all the other possible Bright Sands characters were more effective. After seeing a few centaurs in action, I'm really not impressed. If you're not a 16 Strength Centaur with Power Attack at 1st level, you had better have a good reason for it. That's the usual problem. My Centaur is a 15 Str one with Combat Expertise and we had a 16 Str one with Power Attack, and believe me, I felt the difference. Once I get to 4th and get Improved Trip, that margin will be cut down considerably, but...
solbergb 09-22-06, 08:36 PM	My wife's doing a 16 starting strength centaur with no power attack. Her eventual schtick will be flurry+hooves with grappling and maybe trip. She wanted to fool with Sandstorm feats so has scorpion resolve with scorpion sense at level 4, to get a "monkish" feel (she also has a rank in tumble). The grossly high will save caused by this has saved her bacon on several occasions already, and 10' of tremorsense works better when you are a 4x4 square platform than when you are 1x1. But it's not optomized. The raw strength and occasional hoof attacks tends to help with the damage lost by not having power attack. It seems to work pretty well. But the lower you go in strength, the more you need power attack, ironically. Plus if you aren't really strong, those hoof attacks will never hit.
Lightblade 09-26-06, 09:59 AM	Heh, here's my planned centaur build. One level in each class after i'm done with my racial centaur hit dice. Centaur feats: Power Attack, EWP(Great Scimitar) Fighter: feat Weapon Focus (Great Scimitar) Barbarian: feat Extra Rage Exotic Weapon Master (Uncanny Blow) Bear Warrior Ranger (track, and Improved Critical: Great Scimitar) That's about as far as i've planned it out. Another level of figher or barbarian would do me well enough, i suppose. I came up with the bear warrior idea independently of kjenks: origionally i was going to go druid, but my friendly neighborhood triad member talked me out of it, saying that really I want full bab to make best use of Power Attack.
Timlagor 09-26-06, 01:03 PM	Centaurs don't really come into their own until level 8+ -don't expect them to be powerful at 3-7. (I went for Strength 16: you need lots but 18 didn't seem worth the cost since there isn't that much difference between 28 and 30)
Gelth 09-26-06, 01:11 PM	My Centaur started with stats (before racial mods) of 18/14/14/8/8/8, and is (obviously) intended to be a melee combat brute, as long as I can survive with not enough hitpoints. Classes/feats projected (I'm 3rd level now): 1: Exotic (Great Falchion) 4: Power Attack 7: Barbarian 8: Ranger, Extra Rage 9: Fighter, Tunnel Fighter 10: Bear Warrior I'm far from stuck on this progression of course, we'll see how things develop as I go along. --Penn, Ket Triad
TallGuy 09-29-06, 09:11 AM	My Centaur started with stats (before racial mods) of 18/14/14/8/8/8, and is (obviously) intended to be a melee combat brute, as long as I can survive with not enough hitpoints. Classes/feats projected (I'm 3rd level now): 1: Exotic (Great Falchion) 4: Power Attack 7: Barbarian 8: Ranger, Extra Rage 9: Fighter, Tunnel Fighter 10: Bear Warrior I'm far from stuck on this progression of course, we'll see how things develop as I go along. --Penn, Ket Triad I'm going for the following build with mine: 18/10/14/12/12/12 (at second level) First level feat is Power Attack, not sure about the 2nd level feat yet. After level six, I'll be going for Paladin of Skerrit. I haven't worked out his build completely yet, but it'll do for now :) Bas Vermeulen
clannagh 10-22-06, 08:36 PM	I toyed with the idea of a Centaur Dragon Disciple for a while :) But in the end I took a Bright Sands Badlands dwarf.
_m_ 10-24-06, 01:16 AM	I toyed with the idea of a Centaur Dragon Disciple for a while :) But in the end I took a Bright Sands Badlands dwarf. lol, you only took it 'cause you couldnt find your 'letmebeacentaur' card thingy.
kyeudo 10-26-06, 12:53 PM	I have a player in my group who is getting into a centaur. Anyone know if centaurs make good paladins?
Reylance 10-26-06, 05:58 PM	I have a player in my group who is getting into a centaur. Anyone know if centaurs make good paladins? If you want a paladin-style character, I'd recommend instead taking one level of a BAB +1 class, then going pious templar. You get most of the paladin's benefits quicker, and can drop Charisma as a needed stat.
Iswald 10-28-06, 03:02 AM	I have a player in my group who is getting into a centaur. Anyone know if centaurs make good paladins? Heh. I thought all paladins were good by definition. ;) If I ever play my centaur enough, he'll become a knight of the chalice. Along the way, he should pick up some paladin levels. Pious templar is also a possibility. The question is whether you want to spend two of your few feats to get into it.
Amnarii 10-30-06, 01:52 PM	I have a question on centaur paladins... I've read RotW and the LGCS and Brightsands info, and unless I missed it, nothing addresses special mounts for centaur paladins. What happens when a centaur paladin should gain a mount? Obviously he cannot ride one, so does he simply lose a class feature with no recompense? That doesn't seem fair; no other class would lose a feature with no compensation because the character is a centaur.
Arvagor 10-30-06, 02:27 PM	That's the price you pay, IMO, for choosing that race/class combo -- not all races have to work well with all classes, and you've hit upon one of those combos. Not much different from choosing to play a dwarven sorcerer, or a gray elf barbarian...
Amnarii 10-30-06, 02:30 PM	I would say there is a very distinct difference between playing a dwarven sorcerer (who could start with a 16 CHA, though few would waste the points) and suffering in an ability score; which can be pumped up through level increases and magic items... and losing an entire class feature. No, the comparison would be a race that could not receive a familiar or animal companion as a sorcerer, wizard, or druid. But those don't exist, do they...?
RedKnightofKet 10-30-06, 02:43 PM	You'd still get the Special Mount feature, you just can't ride him. He can still be an additional combatant, hold your stuff, etc. So there's a down side - but look at the bright side of being a centaur paladin - no wasted ranks in Ride :w00t:
Arvagor 10-30-06, 02:50 PM	No, the comparison would be a race that could not receive a familiar or animal companion as a sorcerer, wizard, or druid. But those don't exist, do they...?A race? Probably not... But I am aware of mods that remove your animal companion from you based on your actions, and regardless of your race -- will that do? ;)
_m_ 10-30-06, 06:21 PM	all of you shush. im still in mourning for my poor little familiar. poor tiny little julian, with his 38 ac at level 8. oh how i miss him *sob* :raincloud
RedKnightofKet 10-30-06, 06:51 PM	ummm.... there, there. There, there. ;) all of you shush. im still in mourning for my poor little familiar. poor tiny little julian, with his 38 ac at level 8. oh how i miss him *sob* :raincloud
_m_ 10-30-06, 07:29 PM	ummm.... there, there. There, there. ;) *cries on shoulder* thanks... :weep:
RedKnightofKet 10-30-06, 07:36 PM	*cries on shoulder* thanks... :weep: That's what knights are for...:D
_m_ 10-30-06, 07:42 PM	does that mean i can cry on my own shoulder?
RedKnightofKet 10-30-06, 08:24 PM	does that mean i can cry on my own shoulder? um, not unless you have the Split ability... but that's another discussion entirely... As it is, I think we've taken this discussion a bit too far off track...:invasion:
Grovar 11-17-06, 11:56 PM	MY current aim is to become an Occult Slayer. I know that the skill point costs are a pain, but I look at this as a RP challenge. 1: EWP: Great Falchion 4: Improved Initiative 7: Fighter (Power Attack) 8: Fighter (Weapon Focus: Great Falchion) Feat: ? I'm thinking of either Dodge for extra AC or Cleave 9: Occult Slayer 10: OC Stat Push: Dex I once thought about taking Leadership since I have access to a certed cohort, but due to the level adjustment (goes for feats as well) and my bad Charisma, it makes it more than useless. My stats at 6th level: S 24 D 14 C 18 I 12 W 14 CH 8 James (and Ragnar)
PaulH 11-20-06, 04:13 PM	Hi That looks - erm - impressive! :eek: Gt Falchion (as large) 3D6 - works for me! Not sure about dodge - only works for one target. Cleave is goooooood! Might Consider 'Eyes in Back of Head' from CW - no flanking. (And you are large creature.........) Must remember this one! Take it you're going Imp Crit as 9th lvl feat? :D Cheers Paul H
clannagh 11-21-06, 12:35 AM	If i had a centaur i would have been inclined towards Dragon Disciple purely because of teh uselessly high STR you would finish up with :)
_m_ 11-21-06, 06:17 PM	If i had a centaur i would have been inclined towards Dragon Disciple purely because of teh uselessly high STR you would finish up with :) what about a bear warrior...
solbergb 11-21-06, 09:00 PM	bear warriors are funny with centaur. They make you size medium and raise your strength :)
clannagh 11-21-06, 09:08 PM	sooo ... a centaur dragon disciple bear warrior with a +6 belt, ioun stone and bulls strength should in theory get you a strength up around 40 or so in bear form ? or in LG does the belt stop working ?
_m_ 11-21-06, 10:12 PM	sooo ... a centaur dragon disciple bear warrior with a +6 belt, ioun stone and bulls strength should in theory get you a strength up around 40 or so in bear form ? or in LG does the belt stop working ? can get more than 40. the centaur itself is gonna end up at like 26 or 28 isnt it? dragon disciple gives +2ish, as would... gsa :D then full level bear warrior (dont know the specific number, its like 10 or so at full i think) then fist of stone, and belt of giant strength. and take reckless rage for another 2 ok some of those prolly dont stack, and im probably off on the numbers (at work = no books) but i rekon you could deffinately get closer to 50.
solbergb 11-22-06, 02:03 PM	only necklace and cloak survive size/shape changing polymorph in LG. So no belt of strength.
_m_ 11-22-06, 05:58 PM	only necklace and cloak survive size/shape changing polymorph in LG. So no belt of strength. all good, im pretty sure it dosent stack with bulls strength / fist of stone, so just use one of them instead.
clannagh 11-22-06, 06:15 PM	all good, im pretty sure it dosent stack with bulls strength / fist of stone, so just use one of them instead. Well you could enlarge the Centaur to huge for two more strength. Problem is .. enlarge person would likely not work (humanoids only) so you might need to use animal growth. Or would that fail as well ? Interesting.
_m_ 11-22-06, 06:25 PM	Well you could enlarge the Centaur to huge for two more strength. Problem is .. enlarge person would likely not work (humanoids only) so you might need to use animal growth. Or would that fail as well ? Interesting. arent they monstorous humanoids?
Arvagor 11-22-06, 08:01 PM	arent they monstorous humanoids? Enlarge person works on humanoid type. Animal Growth works on animal type. Centaur = monstrous humanoid type. Monstrous humanoid != humanoid, therefore enlarge person does not work on centaurs. Monstrous humanoid != animal, therefore animal growth does not work on centaurs.
_m_ 11-22-06, 08:24 PM	Enlarge person works on humanoid type. Animal Growth works on animal type. Centaur = monstrous humanoid type. Monstrous humanoid != humanoid, therefore enlarge person does not work on centaurs. Monstrous humanoid != animal, therefore animal growth does not work on centaurs. har har. silly centaurs. that'll learn em to be... centaurs. incidentaly, the mid level bear warrior adds +16 str.
RedKnightofKet 11-22-06, 09:54 PM	There is one way, that I know of, to enlarge a Centaur's weapon: Earth Hammer, from RoS. It's core, but Cleric 5 or Paladin 3, not easy for a Centaur. But a Centaur's cohort, on the other hand...:plotting:
Iswald 11-26-06, 09:46 AM	It's a long path, but a centaur cleric could use righteous might.
solbergb 11-26-06, 11:05 AM	incidentaly, the mid level bear warrior adds +16 str. Mid level bear warrrior is endgame for LG. Centaur 6 levels = BAB4 need to be level 9 before you have the BAB7 required for bear warrior. Brown bear bear warrior is level 15 (bear warrior 5). So...you get that +16 str for a handful of adventures. I tend not to worry much about L15 abilities. They're fun capstone things, but you need to be good at level4, 8 and 12 too, and the stuff you get at those levels you get to play with a lot longer.
solbergb 11-26-06, 11:08 AM	It's a long path, but a centaur cleric could use righteous might. Again at L15 only, barring L5 scroll use (not bloody likely) Being a primary caster on a centaur is shooting yourself in the foot. At level 6 they are brimming with raw melee attributes and desperately short on feats and BAB. Something like monk might be worth losing BAB (because it gives SO many feats, most of which synergize nicely with the centaur attributes) but fullBAB/front-loaded feat-heavy classes/PRC's are usually the best way to go (and PRC's that waste feats to enter aren't recommended)
_m_ 11-26-06, 05:50 PM	Mid level bear warrrior is endgame for LG. Centaur 6 levels = BAB4 need to be level 9 before you have the BAB7 required for bear warrior. Brown bear bear warrior is level 15 (bear warrior 5). So...you get that +16 str for a handful of adventures. I tend not to worry much about L15 abilities. They're fun capstone things, but you need to be good at level4, 8 and 12 too, and the stuff you get at those levels you get to play with a lot longer. lol, i wasnt actually recomending anyone DO that, i was just seeing how high you could get your strength up as a centaur pc.
Iswald 11-27-06, 08:39 AM	Again at L15 only, barring L5 scroll use (not bloody likely) I never said that anyone should do it. But, if you're looking at what's possible... Besides, clerics have divine power, which is based on level and not HD, so I don't see a serious problem. ;)
Lightblade 11-27-06, 02:29 PM	I never said that anyone should do it. But, if you're looking at what's possible... Besides, clerics have divine power, which is based on level and not HD, so I don't see a serious problem. ;) There was debate over centaur hit dice equaling their level. I'd say that by taking monster class levels, their level = their ECL. It seems like many judges would rule that the centaur's level is their hit dice, though, and I wouldn't protest such a ruling.
clik_ml 11-27-06, 03:08 PM	For what it's worth, a centaur could cast righteous might at 14th level. Just need a big charisma and 5 caster levels in divine crusader.
Dragon9 12-03-06, 11:21 PM	Personally, I, like many others, went for high STR with my centaur... I admit, I was going for cheese. I haven't built a powergaming character and felt like having some fun. :) I was looking a little bit towards battle field control. At 5th level my stats are 26/15/18/10/12/8 IIRC off the top of my head. I started with maxed out STR. I plan on taking mostly fighter levels for feats, having taken Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush (+16 on my Bull Rush roll currently) for the two feats during Centaur levels. I'll be looking into a some of the Tactical feats once I start taking Fighter levels. I have a favor that I can use to get Horseshoes of Speed, and I plan on taking at least one level of Barbarian. So I will be able to move quickly around the battle field, knock people down or push them around (Bull Rushing for allied AoOs is fun!) and hit really hard. (Current max Power Attack wielding a scimitar 2-H is +8 melee, 1d6+18 and I seem to roll crits a lot too, so make that 2d6+36) once I get Fighter levels I'll look into Falchions or Great Falchions.
Japangirl 12-04-06, 03:38 PM	The centaur's level for the purpose of calculating APL is their centaur level + class levels, not their hit dice. For the purpose of spells that depend on hit dice, only hit dice matter. Basically centaurs have 4 racial hit dice and a +2 level adjustment given slowly over six levels.