Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chaxc 12-07-05, 10:56 AM	Fellow Travelers, I was wondering if it was possible to change the type of damage that a weapon does. I play a paladin of St. Cuthbert. As you may or may not know, St. Cuthbert has a thing for bludgeoning damage. I bought a lance for this character and I want to know if I can change the damage type from piercing to bludgeoning. My character has craft weapon skill, and profession weaponsmith. I figured I could put a cold iron ball on the end of the lance, thus making it a blunt weapon. Nothing large, just about the size of a golf ball. Does anyone know if this is possible in game? Chaxc
kenobi65 12-07-05, 12:09 PM	In a home game, it'd probably be a DM's call. In Living Greyhawk, I don't think you could do this.
King Kashue 12-07-05, 03:50 PM	There is no way to do this in LG, at least not with the core rules (there might be something way funky on an AR that allows this, but I've never heard of it)... On the purely physical note, this totally would not work in any effective way. The physics of a lance is that it puts all of the force of the blow behind one very small, very sharp point...Blunting the point makes the weapon useless...
solbergb 12-07-05, 05:28 PM	Some spells do this. Brambles (complete divine) changes your damage type from blunt to blunt and pierce. (and if you believe the "andyism" in the FAQ, a wood weapon that somehow does slash becomes slash and pierce) Earth Hammer (races of stone) changes your damage type from whatever it is to admantium/bludgeoning. Which can be weird, but there it is.
ogdnd 12-08-05, 09:02 AM	There is no way to do this in LG, at least not with the core rules (there might be something way funky on an AR that allows this, but I've never heard of it)... I agree with the above. Unless there is an AR that allows it, the rules for LG do not allow it. On the purely physical note, this totally would not work in any effective way. The physics of a lance is that it puts all of the force of the blow behind one very small, very sharp point...Blunting the point makes the weapon useless... Hmmm...not LG related, but getting struck by a metal ball at the end of a long, sturdy stick when it is carried by a man on a charging horse....I don't want to get hit by that. ;) Before anyone goes ballistic about rules/physics, without the force of a charge behind it, I'm not sure how well it would work. I do not claim to be a weapons expert, a physicist, or a physiologist, although I do "play some of the above on TV." :) Michael
King Kashue 12-08-05, 02:25 PM	Hmmm...not LG related, but getting struck by a metal ball at the end of a long, sturdy stick when it is carried by a man on a charging horse....I don't want to get hit by that. ;) Before anyone goes ballistic about rules/physics, without the force of a charge behind it, I'm not sure how well it would work. I'm not going to go ballistic, since we're not dealing with a missile weapon ;) Force of charge or not, what "brings the nasty" in a lance or a spear is the very small point of contact...All the force is brought to bear on a small area. When you swing a sword or mace (larger striking surface), you're swinging it much faster than thrusting a spear or riding on a mounted charge, so the larger surface is not an issue (which is also why picks and warhammers were rather effective, because they combined the increased momentum of a swing with a small striking surface)...
Madfox11 12-09-05, 03:23 AM	On the purely physical note, this totally would not work in any effective way. The physics of a lance is that it puts all of the force of the blow behind one very small, very sharp point...Blunting the point makes the weapon useless... Isn't that what they did with tournament lances? So I would not call it useless perse... ;)
ogdnd 12-09-05, 08:22 AM	I'm not going to go ballistic, since we're not dealing with a missile weapon ;) Thank goodness. Anyone who can make a lance ballistic would put a good scare on me. ;) Force of charge or not, what "brings the nasty" in a lance or a spear is the very small point of contact...All the force is brought to bear on a small area. When you swing a sword or mace (larger striking surface), you're swinging it much faster than thrusting a spear or riding on a mounted charge, so the larger surface is not an issue (which is also why picks and warhammers were rather effective, because they combined the increased momentum of a swing with a small striking surface)... I don't doubt that the small point makes the damage that much more severe. But if I were standing still, and someone on a horse charged by with a cinder block and just held it out (what Str does that take? :) ) so that it intercepted my head, I'm willing to bet that it would do some damage to me. It might also do some damage to the cinder block, me being a block-head and all. *snare drum* So I'm just arguing the use of the word "useless" in this context. I'm sure that it would still be usefull in some way, just diminished somewhat in ability to do damage. I'm also taking the opportunity to have a little lighthearted fun with heavy objects. :) Michael
smerwin29 12-09-05, 10:10 AM	Much of the difference in impact type is also taken into consideration with the mechanic of critical hits. Blunt weapons are for the most part less dangerous in terms of critical hits (20/x2) because they do not penetrate deep. Slashing weapons are generally easier to score a critical hit with (18 or 19-20/x2) because they have a better chance to causing severe damage but still may not penetrate deeply. Piercing weapons (arrows, picks, etc.) generally are harder to hit critically (20) but when they do they really do (x3 or x4 damage). I think called a lance with a metal ball on it useless is a bit of hyperbole. The damage would still be done, but there is less of a chance for a deep, penetrating hit. My two centivos, Shawn
King Kashue 12-09-05, 05:39 PM	Useless in the sense of "not lethal", which is what a lance is for, killing folks... Someone mentioned tournament lances, and that's a good example (though not perfect, since the ends of tournament lances were designed to shatter)...It'll knock you on your arse, and it will give you one hell of a bruise and maybe a broken rib or two, but it's not going to deliver a death blow... Think about swinging a baseball bat (an ad hoc "mace" if you will). I can swing a baseball bat around 90 miles an hour...Now have me run at someone using the bat as a "lance", not the same damage...Or have me on horse back charging at 30mph, still not as much... You're basically saying "lets blunt the edge of a stabbing weapon", it is going to seriously reduce the effectiveness of the weapon...A carving knife can deliver a serious wound, but not if you're stabbing with the handle :D
ogdnd 12-10-05, 07:16 AM	Now have me run at someone using the bat as a "lance", not the same damage...Or have me on horse back charging at 30mph, still not as much... You're basically saying "lets blunt the edge of a stabbing weapon", it is going to seriously reduce the effectiveness of the weapon...A carving knife can deliver a serious wound, but not if you're stabbing with the handle :D I can't resist. :) It depends on the nature of "stabbing" motion. I'm not going to say that I have first hand knowledge that a golf-ball sized chunk of metal can break a jaw in two places with a "stabbing motion" (at least until the lawsuit is settled ;) ), but it can be done. Similarly, a knife handle can do some serious damage if used right. But I certainly agree that the type and quantity of damage is significantly reduced in comparison to the same amount of force at impact with a much smaller point (e.g. lance end, knife point/edge). However, that damage can still be lethal in properly trained hands. Just less lethal. Shawn: thanks for the explanation. I hadn't seen that before, and it makes a lot of sense. Ok, off to the Keoish Games for me! Charge! err... Michael
kjenks 12-10-05, 12:24 PM	Thank goodness. Anyone who can make a lance ballistic would put a good scare on me. ;) I did that, once. Back at level 13, my LG fighter mutt hurled his lance at an opponent, just because he didn't want to leave the nice, cozy anti-magic shell and he wanted to skewer one of the many mind flayers hovering just outside. He missed, but it was fun trying. SRD === It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet. ===
ca551u5 12-11-05, 04:59 AM	Brambles (complete divine) changes your damage type from blunt to blunt and pierce. (and if you believe the "andyism" in the FAQ, a wood weapon that somehow does slash becomes slash and pierce) Just in reference to the "Andyism", it comes from the formerly common (and extraordinarily cheesy) practice of using Wood Shape and Ironwood spells to make a wooden greatsword, which was then hit with the Spikes and Brambles spells.