Post/Author/DateTime	Post
haferka 06-15-05, 02:20 PM	Since the spell adds to the weapons base damage.. does it get doubled/trippled when I charge?
King Kashue 06-15-05, 03:31 PM	Since the spell adds to the weapons base damage.. does it get doubled/trippled when I charge? You cannot cast spikes on a lance at all, so the multiplying doesn't matter... Brambles and spikes must be cast on a melee weapon with a wooden striking surface (all given examples are bludgeoning)...Since a lance has a metal point, rather than a wooden striking surface, it will not work with the spell (A lance being, in this respect, not unlike an arrow, which is specifically listed as an unsuitable weapon)... If you were to cast it on an appropriate weapon, and then spirited charge (for example) the damage would indeed multiply, as it would on a critical hit... the general rule is, modifiers multiply, extra damage dice do not...It's an enhancement bonus, which is a modifier, and thus it would stack...
kjenks 06-15-05, 03:55 PM	http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv05272005.zip There are two new entries related to Brambles and Spikes: What kind of damage does a slashing wooden weapon (such as a longsword crafted with the ironwood spell) deal if I cast brambles (Complete Divine, page 156) on it? What about a piercing wooden weapon? The brambles spell description assumes that the spell is being cast on a bludgeoning weapon (all example weapons are bludgeoning), so when it says “the weapon deals both piercing and bludgeoning damage” it means that the weapon’s damage is now treated as piercing damage in addition to its normal type of damage. However, the spell can be cast on any wooden weapon, not just a bludgeoning weapon. A slashing weapon that gained this effect would deal slashing and piercing damage. A piercing weapon that gained this effect would deal only piercing damage. Do the bonuses granted by brambles and spikes (Complete Divine, page 156 and page 181) stack? No and yes. The two spells each grant an enhancement bonus on attack rolls, and thus only the higher enhancement bonus (that granted by spikes) would apply. However, the damage bonus granted by each spell is untyped and would therefore stack with each other. So you have Brambles and Spikes cast on an Ironwood lance, they'd stack up. On a mounted lance charge, the damage would be doubled. So if you are a 10th level fighter and you have 18 Str (bonus +4) and you wield the lance two-handed (1.5x Str bonus on damage), a mounted lance charge with an Ironwood/Brambles/Spikes lance would give you +18 attack (+10 BAB, +4 Str, +2 enhancement bonus, +2 charge bonus) and 2d8+52 damage (+6 Str, +10 Brambles, +10 Spikes, doubled). (Assuming 10th level caster.) If you have the Spirited Charge feat, that would be triple damage, or 3d8+78.
King Kashue 06-15-05, 04:14 PM	Idiotic ruling...Cheeseweasels of the world rejoice! :rolleyes:
haferka 06-15-05, 04:43 PM	Idiotic ruling...Cheeseweasels of the world rejoice! :rolleyes: Rejoice.. rejoice..!!! I already knew about the ruling... I just wasnted to point out the cheesiest weapon for this spell combo... dont forget that the spell also doubles the weapons crit range... So cast them on your keen +5 ironwood lance. I still dont understand why lance is not an exotic weapon... its just to good to be martial (im my oppinion at least)
Aremedis 06-15-05, 05:43 PM	Rejoice.. rejoice..!!! I already knew about the ruling... I just wasnted to point out the cheesiest weapon for this spell combo... dont forget that the spell also doubles the weapons crit range... So cast them on your keen +5 ironwood lance. I still dont understand why lance is not an exotic weapon... its just to good to be martial (im my oppinion at least) Because you have to be mounted to use it. Crawling through a dungeon makes it very hard to be mounted effectively (unless you're tiny or smaller).
King Kashue 06-15-05, 07:41 PM	Because you have to be mounted to use it. Crawling through a dungeon makes it very hard to be mounted effectively (unless you're tiny or smaller). Actually, you only need to be small...A small creature can ride a medium one, and they fit just fine in a 5' hallway... I've actually considered a gnome paladin/cavalier (since I don't yet have a Lawful Good character)...
haferka 06-15-05, 11:43 PM	My favorite druid concept is: Ftr 2/Beastmaster 1/Druid 17.. Eberron Halfling Dinosour rider wielding a monkey griped +5 keen ironwood lance, which is constantly enchanted with spikes & brambles.. I also carry around specialy crafted ironwood toy dinosour on wheels (small size). The trick is to cast animate wood on it and watch people run for the hills... (after you cast spikes & brambles on it first)...
kjenks 06-16-05, 07:53 AM	Potion of Reduce Person - 250 gp Scroll of Reduce Person - 25 gp Exotic Military Saddle - 60 gp Have your wizard cohort cast fly on himself, reduce you, then you ride him into battle. When you don't have enough time for this, you're still Medium.
King Kashue 06-16-05, 12:38 PM	Potion of Reduce Person - 250 gp Scroll of Reduce Person - 25 gp Exotic Military Saddle - 60 gp Have your wizard cohort cast fly on himself, reduce you, then you ride him into battle. When you don't have enough time for this, you're still Medium. Ah, but remember, other PCs cannot serve as mounts in regard to the game mechanics (feats or charging)...
haferka 06-16-05, 12:48 PM	yes.. but an ape animal companion can! And he can wield a lance in addition to the lance that you are using yourself :) Just give him Martial Weapon proficiency (lance), Power Attack, etc...
Gelth 06-16-05, 01:00 PM	My primary LG character (still going strong since River of Blood) is a mounted combat guy. I've used everything I can to make mounted combat effective, since at low levels it hard to get a mount into many modules, and at high levels the multiple attacks of the raging barbarians outdoes me anyway. The current ruling with spikes/brambles is just silly, though. It's technically correct by the rules, but doesn't consider the implications (and lances aren't the most disgusting use, you want as many attacks as possible to maximize the damage boost). Now we need to hope that errata will fix the problem, by bring the two spells back into line with the core rules. Currently, we're stuck with it though. --Penn, Ket Triad
Timlagor 06-16-05, 02:12 PM	Dont forget that the spell also doubles the weapons crit range... So cast them on your keen +5 ironwood lance. I still dont understand why lance is not an exotic weapon... its just to good to be martial (im my oppinion at least) I'm fairly certain that Keen won't stack with this doubling. Consider the Ironwood Falchion though.... oh and you forgot the GMW for +5 to hit and another +5 damage. And that's without spending anything on enhancements -it's not even masterwork! (..unless ironwood requires it) Lances are still ok when you're not mounted -just not great.
kjenks 06-17-05, 08:26 AM	Ah, but remember, other PCs cannot serve as mounts in regard to the game mechanics (feats or charging)... As far as I can tell, that "rule" seems to apply only to Centaurs from the Bright Sands. The Bright Sands LG supplement is the only place one can find that statement, in the Centaur section.
King Kashue 06-17-05, 02:30 PM	As far as I can tell, that "rule" seems to apply only to Centaurs from the Bright Sands. The Bright Sands LG supplement is the only place one can find that statement, in the Centaur section. I suppose we could ask Tim for an official ruling (this one is actually an LG thing rather than some general rules question that they keep getting hit with)... From my reading, riding a mount requires just that, the use of the ride skill, you directing the mount while you ride...That isn't possible with another PC...
kjenks 06-17-05, 04:16 PM	From my reading, riding a mount requires just that, the use of the ride skill, you directing the mount while you ride...That isn't possible with another PC... Well, directing a mount in combat requires the use of the Ride skill. If your mount is intelligent, it presumably directs itself in combat, so you don't need to use the Ride skill for that aspect of mounted combat. LG has many ways of obtaining intelligent mounts.
King Kashue 06-17-05, 05:32 PM	Well, directing a mount in combat requires the use of the Ride skill. If your mount is intelligent, it presumably directs itself in combat, so you don't need to use the Ride skill for that aspect of mounted combat. LG has many ways of obtaining intelligent mounts. Intelligence is irrelevant...Paladin mounts are all intelligent, yet they are still mounts and still utilize the ride skill...
haferka 06-17-05, 06:07 PM	Intelligence simple means that the mount not longer needs to be "trained" ... Just tell it what to do.. and it is done...
Timlagor 06-17-05, 10:24 PM	Intelligence simple means that the mount not longer needs to be "trained" ... Just tell it what to do.. and it is done... I have a suspicion you may need to use diplomacy...
kjenks 06-17-05, 10:40 PM	I've never met a DM who required a Paladin to make a Diplomacy check to ask his intelligent mount to do something like that. I can just imagine it: "Hey, Lightning, would you please charge that Baetzu? No, the one on the left. Yes, the scary one. Please? Pretty please?"
King Kashue 06-18-05, 04:22 AM	I've never met a DM who required a Paladin to make a Diplomacy check to ask his intelligent mount to do something like that. I can just imagine it: "Hey, Lightning, would you please charge that Baetzu? No, the one on the left. Yes, the scary one. Please? Pretty please?" :D The reason other player characters are not mounts is a meta-game issue, they're player characters...They're not controlled by the PC riding them...Paladin mount, Improved Familiar, even special cohort mounts, intelligence isn't the issue (especially since every familar or Paladin mount in the game is as smart or smarter than my half-orc :D)...