Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spellbow 04-27-06, 03:58 PM	i was woundering which will be better, a druid summoner or a cleric with the summoning domain. human druid str12 dex15 con12 int10 wis16 cha8 feats 1.spell focus(conjuration) Bonus Agumented summoning im not sure what else to take a higher livels or human cleric of trithereon (domains Summoner and protection) str12 dex12 con14 int10 wis16 cha10 feats 1.spell focus(conjuration) Bonus Agumented summoning 3 agumented healing 6 craft magic arms and armor not sure what Pc to take
Lupo 04-27-06, 04:40 PM	i was woundering which will be better, a druid summoner or a cleric with the summoning domain. human druid str12 dex15 con12 int10 wis16 cha8 feats 1.spell focus(conjuration) Bonus Agumented summoning im not sure what else to take a higher livels or human cleric of trithereon (domains Summoner and protection) str12 dex12 con14 int10 wis16 cha10 feats 1.spell focus(conjuration) Bonus Agumented summoning 3 agumented healing 6 craft magic arms and armor not sure what Pc to take cleric summoner opens the ability to take "rapid spell" and divine metamagic "rapid spell", nothing beats a summoning that is only one standard action. later a cleric can go alienist, a very cool option, as the pseudonatural true strike ability is much more usefull than the normal "smite" ability. druid with the ability to convert any spell into a summon nature's ally have their own merits. and a druid with "rapid spell" is cool to, ok, the spells will be one level UNDER the highest tier, but still very effective. ciao martin m.
paigeoliver 04-27-06, 05:29 PM	You also might want to wait until 3rd level for augmented summoning, since your monsters at levels 1 and 2 are only going to last 1 and 2 rounds respectively. At those levels you'd probably be better off chucking a few sling bullets rather than summoning a 1 round wolf.
Dasher2k 04-27-06, 07:02 PM	Alienist Rocks, the true strike is big and you can summon creatures as pseudonatural and not fiendish (dire wolfs ;) ). I like alienist as a wizard as you can go invisible and haste your summons.
Nerax 04-27-06, 10:22 PM	human cleric of trithereon (domains Summoner and protection) str12 dex12 con14 int10 wis16 cha10 feats 1.spell focus(conjuration) Bonus Agumented summoning 3 agumented healing 6 craft magic arms and armor not sure what Pc to take This is an idea I have kicked around of a while: Gnome (Human?)Cleric of Segojan Earthcaller Domains Animal and Summoning str:10 dex:12 con:14 int:12 wis:16 cha:10 1 Spell focus Conj. 3 Augment Summoning 6 Rapid spell 9 Spontaneos Summoner (switch out spells for Summ Natures Ally) 12 DMM 15? You would need to take 4 skill points in Knowledge Nature and be able to cast one Summon Natures Ally. Both of these are coverd by the Animal Domain. Being a Gnome god I am not sure if you could be a human worshiper? If you can then: 1 Spell focus Conj., Augment Summoning 3 Rapid spell 6 DMM 9 Spontaneos Summoner (switch out spells for Summ Natures Ally) 12 ? 15 ? :D
Iswald 04-27-06, 11:19 PM	Being a Gnome god I am not sure if you could be a human worshiper? If you can then: You have to be a gnome to be a cleric of Segojan Earthcaller. The core, common and uncommon worshippers determine which races can be clerics (from the deities doc). In this case, core worshippers are only gnomes and the the common and uncommon worshippers are blank so no other races are allowed.
Nerax 04-28-06, 12:18 AM	You have to be a gnome to be a cleric of Segojan Earthcaller. The core, common and uncommon worshippers determine which races can be clerics (from the deities doc). In this case, core worshippers are only gnomes and the the common and uncommon worshippers are blank so no other races are allowed. Thanks for the answer....I was just to lazy to look it up at the time. :P
Prochytes 04-28-06, 07:14 AM	Alienist Rocks, the true strike is big and you can summon creatures as pseudonatural and not fiendish (dire wolfs ;) ). I like alienist as a wizard as you can go invisible and haste your summons. Note that Alienist is a Limited class; you would need to get access. From the frequency with which it gets mentioned, though, I suspect that it may be more readily available in some Regions than others (which makes perfect sense in terms of the setting; some bits of the Flanaess are established as harbouring points of contact with the Far Realm).
spellbow 04-28-06, 03:38 PM	Don't you have to have an arcane class to take alienst
kenobi65 04-28-06, 03:48 PM	Don't you have to have an arcane class to take alienst I don't believe so. I don't have my Complete Arcane in front of me, so I may not have this entirely right, but according to my Heroforge spreadsheet, the prereqs are: - Non-lawful alignment - 8 ranks in Knowledge (the planes) - Augment Summoning feat - Able to cast at least one summoning spell of 3rd level or higher - Must have made peaceful contact with an alienist or pseudonatural creature Nothing in there that requires being an arcanist, or even is substantially easier for an arcanist to achieve.
Lupo 04-28-06, 06:19 PM	I don't believe so. I don't have my Complete Arcane in front of me, so I may not have this entirely right, but according to my Heroforge spreadsheet, the prereqs are: - Non-lawful alignment - 8 ranks in Knowledge (the planes) - Augment Summoning feat - Able to cast at least one summoning spell of 3rd level or higher - Must have made peaceful contact with an alienist or pseudonatural creature Nothing in there that requires being an arcanist, or even is substantially easier for an arcanist to achieve. the problem with alienist is that it only works with "summon monster" spells, so it can be arcane or divine summoner. but it will not work with "summon nature's ally" spells. my druid has access to alienist THREE times now. a wizard can get the complementary feats "spellfocus conjuration" "augment summoning" and "rapid spell" easyly via the metamagic bonus feats. a cleric has to be BUILT for this from the start, especcially when he wants to use "divine metamagic [rapid spell]". ciao martin m.
thorinXXX 04-29-06, 09:36 AM	The cleric summoner is not as useful as it seems. you loose about half of the creatures due to alignment. A good cleric, or cleric of a good deity cannot cast spells with the evil descriptor. Most of the more effective creatures in combat tend to be the feindish ones, at least at low levels.
PaulH 04-29-06, 12:11 PM	Hi Cleric can be useful- only takes one round to summon maonster, so quicken spell works. (Quicken doesn't work with spells that take more than one round to cast. Divine Metamagic, Quicken Spell grants instant monster, though takes up 5 turning slots! You can also go CN for Trithereon, for those evil monsters. Take Spell Focus Conj.Augment Summoning, because Summoning Domain power adds +2 caster lvl to cojuration summoning/conj calling spells. (3 rnds at 1st lvl, etc). Human Cleric (Summoning Strength) 1) Conj Summoning, Augment Summoning 3) Quicken Spell 6) Divine Metamagic, Quicken Spell In surprise round, summon 2 creatures, from 3rd lvl list. That should upset someone! ;) Cheers Paul H
Lupo 04-29-06, 12:51 PM	Hi Cleric can be useful- only takes one round to summon maonster, so quicken spell works. (Quicken doesn't work with spells that take more than one round to cast. Divine Metamagic, Quicken Spell grants instant monster, though takes up 5 turning slots! You can also go CN for Trithereon, for those evil monsters. Take Spell Focus Conj.Augment Summoning, because Summoning Domain power adds +2 caster lvl to cojuration summoning/conj calling spells. (3 rnds at 1st lvl, etc). Human Cleric (Summoning Strength) 1) Conj Summoning, Augment Summoning 3) Quicken Spell 6) Divine Metamagic, Quicken Spell In surprise round, summon 2 creatures, from 3rd lvl list. That should upset someone! ;) Cheers Paul H take "rapid spell" from complete divine, it is only one slot up and shortens the casting time from one round to a standard action, combined with divine metamagic and the summoner domain you get a very versatile summoner. it is even better tahn "spell focus [conjuration]" and "augmented summoning". as the critters that are there faster do more than the critters that are thougher. getting access to "alienist" really gives you a summoning monstrosity :-) ciao martin m.
opa 04-29-06, 04:48 PM	remember to check with your region before summoning evil creatures it is an arrestable offense in some regions.... Opa
Samwise 04-29-06, 04:53 PM	You also might want to wait until 3rd level for augmented summoning, since your monsters at levels 1 and 2 are only going to last 1 and 2 rounds respectively. At those levels you'd probably be better off chucking a few sling bullets rather than summoning a 1 round wolf. Not with the Summoning Domain! It gives +2 Caster Level for Summoning spells. And you can bump it another round by taking the Good Domain. This works for two deities for humans - Trithereon (limited to Chaotic and Good critters), and Ulaa (limited to Lawful and Good critters). (And you can't be a CN or LN and summon Evil creatures, the alignment restriction applies both to your alignment and your deity's.) As for going Animal domain and Spontaneous Summoner, remember that it only works for spells on your list. That is only two spells with that domain. If you want to really bulk out the casting, it might be reasonable to go Cleric 1/Favored Soul X. You can still use Divine Metamagic with Rapid spell, and you get more spells per day. Of course, you will lag severely in spell level. (I haven't tried, just contemplated it.)
JohnduBois 04-29-06, 07:25 PM	I'm really enjoying straight Favored Soul summoner. The first two levels were pretty rough, but at level 3 (when you can summon, then do something for a turn or two, then summon again and still always have a guy out there), it's going pretty well. I realize this is straying a little, but things to consider when comparing Favored Soul to Cleric of Trithereon (which was the choice I was faced with when building the character): 2. For clerics, the Summoning Domain loses its "cool" factor after about level 3 except in two ways. First, Domain Spontaneity means that you never have to prep a Summon Monster spell again; you can "druid it out". Second, it applies to Deific Vengeance. Also make sure you know that if you start casting Conjure Ice Beast spells (where you would gain access, I'm not sure yet, but I'm looking), Summoner domain and Augment Summoning don't apply to them. 3. Clerics get the higher level summons a level earlier, but Favored Souls get more spells per day and don't lose their ability to do "not summons" by having summon spells at the ready. 4. Favored Souls of any alignment, worshipping any deity, can summon all those nice poisonous fiendish creatures, as long as the DM doesn't view them as an evil act (and the "new school" Velunan cleric of Rao PC doesn't try to turn you in...). Now, that's not to say your deity will like you for summoning those things (my summoner of Trithereon refuses to summon any Lawful creatures, but will summon Evil ones all day - especially when he has paladins to annoy), but he/she doesn't prohibit it. 6. Favored Souls (and clerics with Domain Spontaneity and the Summoner domain) can't use Rapid Spell or Quicken Spell at all, and using most other metamagics would cause the spell to take two rounds to cast. The following are things to consider when choosing to go Alienist: 1. All this "aligned summon" stuff goes completely out the window if you take levels in Alienist. Replacing the celestial/fiendish nature of the summon with pseudonatural just wipes out that whole issue. 2. To get into the one PrC that focuses on Summoning, Alienist, the Favored Soul needs the Well Read feat to get in by 7th. This worked out for me, since I live in Furyondy, but may not work out so well for players from elsewhere. 3. Unlike their celestial and fiendish counterparts, pseudonatural creatures that have DR X/magic do not gain the ability to overcome DR X/magic with their natural weapons. 4. Some DMs do not allow pseudonatural creatures to gain their True Strike as part of an attack, although I think this ruling is incorrect and I will seek clarification from WotC Customer Service as my character gets closer to becoming an Alienist. In the end, I think it really comes down to what your personal preferences are (both for the original topic and for the Favored Soul/Cleric choice). I don't really have the patience to sit down and think about what spells I want to prepare each day (and I know my PC wouldn't), so I went Favored Soul for summoning. It made my life a lot easier, although I'm pretty sure I'll miss the cleric's raw power (I'm already feeling the hurt of not having domains or turning).
PaulH 04-29-06, 07:57 PM	Hi Not sure what the "Well Read" stuff was about. With the Summoning Domain you effectively get a 'free' summon every spell level. It also lasts 2 rounds longer. You can even use Divine Metamagic with it. Not sure if Favoured Soul can match pure Cleric at mid-high levels. Sure you cast more spells/day, but list is limited by spells known. One adventure I changed my normal list to include Calm Emotions spell. Solved major problems - fights never happened, etc. Last year my main character met the 'peaceful contact' part of the PrC, but I don't have the feats, & I'm Lawful. One other char is Cleric 1 of Velnius (Bright Lands Character), going Storm Lord at 6th. But ultimately, I think my main has chance of munchkin summoner. Cleric 3 Boccob (Warmage 4) with Magic & Trickery Domains. Saving up for Bag Tricks (Tan)? Go Invis, then pull animal from bag. Can then wander around invis healing people. Cheers Paul H PS Divine Metamagic works with any divine spells, including Druids, so one lvl Cleric, rest as Druid allows you to burn turn attempts to power Druid spells. ;)
Umbra_Kaitou 04-29-06, 09:16 PM	I myself am working a bit on a Druid to focus on summoning. I know there are a few PrC that capitalize on Wild shape, but are there any prC for a summoner besides Alienist
JohnduBois 04-29-06, 11:51 PM	I don't know of any summoning PrCs that are legal in LG besides Alienist. I would like to find them myself so that my Favored Soul doesn't lose Wisdom at Alienist 2, so if you learn of one, please post it.
Iswald 04-30-06, 02:32 AM	Cleric can be useful- only takes one round to summon maonster, so quicken spell works. (Quicken doesn't work with spells that take more than one round to cast. Divine Metamagic, Quicken Spell grants instant monster, though takes up 5 turning slots! As you well know, quickened summoning spells won't always be allowed by the judge. This topic was debated previously in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=609190&page=2) about clerics vs favored souls. If you want to debate it further, going there would be more appropriate than continuing it here.