Crafting and Caster Level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crafting and Caster Level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Puggle Halfwine
08-28-06, 04:26 AM Hey guys,

The D&D Errata makes it clear when crafting an item, the Caster Level listed is the Caster Level of the EFFECT, not a Caster Level requirement for the crafter. Is there any chance that the next version of the LGCS will remove the requirement that you must match the Caster Level of an item before crafting it? It seems to be a silly restriction and a holdover from the confusion from the first printing of the DMG.
Mommy was an Orc
08-28-06, 09:07 AM I think the Circle is well aware of that errata and chooses to ignore it. With good reason IMO. Otherwise, you end up with 3rd level characters crafting +2 stat bonus items. In a regular home game, there's a significant penalty - you fall behind the rest of the party. In LG, you just need to find another table.
Puggle Halfwine
08-28-06, 10:35 AM Yeah... still, I don't think that's all that bad personally. It's a feat to do it, and it only works for casters...

The main reason I ask was because I was hoping to build a fighter (archer, actually) who crafts his own stuff... the one level dip into sorcerer with practiced spellcaster was the best way I could think of to get the 5th level caster requirement... but then realised that I couldn't actually craft anything useful (most stuff requires at least CL 8).

I still can't think of a better way to do it...
Oogar
08-28-06, 11:08 AM 2 feats seems an awful lot for an archer build to spend on crafting some of their own items. I agree that it might not be "too bad" but it would just further widen the gap between item crafters and non-item crafters.
Mommy was an Orc
08-28-06, 11:19 AM You just need to make something of a Spellsword or Eldritch Knight build. A Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 6 as an example. +13 BAB, casts 6th level spells, gets 4 Fighter bonus feats. Or say Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Wizard 1/Ruathar 3 as a 10 level base for getting yourself to 8th caster level with Practiced Spellcaster.
Puggle Halfwine
08-28-06, 11:37 AM Yeah...

To be honest, I wanted to keep the random multiclass levels to a minimum and go into Occult Slayer as quickly as I could. I was just keeping crafting open as an option, but if I can't do it I can't do it.

I just wish there was some way to reduce the amount of gold I have to spend on my bow... archers are heavily reliant on having the best possible weapon available...
DeimosGandymede
08-28-06, 01:03 PM I am not sure how it works in Greyhawk, since I have yet to try it myself, but can't you take CRAFT as a SKILL, and while it may only be mundane, could be done?

/shrug

-MW-
blood_kite
08-28-06, 01:14 PM In LG the Craft skill can only be used to make a little money, meet prestige class prereq's, and the occasional check in a mod to see if a character knows something relavent. You can't use the Craft skill to actually make anything like weapons or armor.
Lupo
08-29-06, 04:29 AM Yeah...

To be honest, I wanted to keep the random multiclass levels to a minimum and go into Occult Slayer as quickly as I could. I was just keeping crafting open as an option, but if I can't do it I can't do it.

I just wish there was some way to reduce the amount of gold I have to spend on my bow... archers are heavily reliant on having the best possible weapon available...

the one big thingy any archer wants is "bracers of archery, greater", for the rest i would assume to start with (or at least get with the first 1k gp) is a masterwork longbow, strength +4, it will get you through anything up to APL 4or even 6, depending of the friendlyness and spell selection of your party's spellcasters.

the additional d6es on your bow(s) mostly depend on your local monster selection and personal taste.

don't put to many on one bow, keep a fair selection.

in sunndi "bane, aquatic humanoids" seems to be a goody nowadays :).

in general, if you can get a locally useful "bane" variant take it, even with a new magic bow, when it otherwise would be enchantment number three or four and therefore kill your cash for the next dozen adventures, hey, it is only 9k gp (for the +4 strength variant) for a +2 to hit and TWO d6es vs. the specific creature.

generally useful "banes" seem to be: human (hey, when your ranger already has "favoured enemy humans", why stop half way????l :)), undead, (evil)outsiders,

yes, i know some ueber archers with single bows with at least 4 different enchantments on it, but at higher APLs rarely all of them kick in.

ciao

martin m.
Puggle Halfwine
08-29-06, 10:15 AM Actually, I was hoping to make my bow "The Equalizer" (after a nice item in Baldur's Gate II, if anyone has played that treasure). The best way I could think of to do that is to make the bow Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. All at once.

The more steps you are away from Neutral, the more D6's you take!
Lupo
08-29-06, 03:26 PM Actually, I was hoping to make my bow "The Equalizer" (after a nice item in Baldur's Gate II, if anyone has played that treasure). The best way I could think of to do that is to make the bow Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. All at once.

The more steps you are away from Neutral, the more D6's you take!

from the srd:
<snip>
Anarchic: An anarchic weapon is chaotically aligned and infused with the power of chaos. It makes the weapon chaos-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of lawful alignment. It bestows one negative level on any lawful creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the chaotic power upon their ammunition.
Moderate evocation [chaotic]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, chaos hammer, creator must be chaotic; Price +2 bonus.
Axiomatic: An axiomatic weapon is lawfully aligned and infused with the power of law. It makes the weapon law-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of chaotic alignment. It bestows one negative level on any chaotic creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the lawful power upon their ammunition.
Moderate evocation [lawful]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, order’s wrath, creator must be lawful; Price +2 bonus.
Holy: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of evil alignment. It bestows one negative level on any evil creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the holy power upon their ammunition.
Moderate evocation [good]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, holy smite, creator must be good; Price +2 bonus.
Unholy: An unholy weapon is imbued with unholy power. This power makes the weapon evil-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of good alignment. It bestows one negative level on any good creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the unholy power upon their ammunition.
Moderate evocation [evil]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, unholy blight, creator must be evil; Price +2 bonus.
<snip>

you have noticed, you talk about a +9!!! weapon for 162k gp :)
in addition you have to be true neutral, or get one or two negative levels.

and the most is TWO of the enchantments kicking in.

and from a "fairness" viepoint, i would be not amused by weapons that hold opposite alignment.

ciao

martin m.
kenobi65
08-29-06, 03:31 PM you have noticed, you talk about a +9!!! weapon for 162k gp :)

Well, 81K, if you could craft it yourself; of course, the *real* trick then is being Lawful, Chaotic, Good, and Evil (since alignment is among the creator prereqs).

If you're not crafting it yourself (and crafting the "unholy" enhancement yourself is impossible in LG), then access becomes an issue...and I imagine that access to "unholy" is gonna be a bear to get.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puggle Halfwine 08-28-06, 04:26 AM	Hey guys, The D&D Errata makes it clear when crafting an item, the Caster Level listed is the Caster Level of the EFFECT, not a Caster Level requirement for the crafter. Is there any chance that the next version of the LGCS will remove the requirement that you must match the Caster Level of an item before crafting it? It seems to be a silly restriction and a holdover from the confusion from the first printing of the DMG.
Mommy was an Orc 08-28-06, 09:07 AM	I think the Circle is well aware of that errata and chooses to ignore it. With good reason IMO. Otherwise, you end up with 3rd level characters crafting +2 stat bonus items. In a regular home game, there's a significant penalty - you fall behind the rest of the party. In LG, you just need to find another table.
Puggle Halfwine 08-28-06, 10:35 AM	Yeah... still, I don't think that's all that bad personally. It's a feat to do it, and it only works for casters... The main reason I ask was because I was hoping to build a fighter (archer, actually) who crafts his own stuff... the one level dip into sorcerer with practiced spellcaster was the best way I could think of to get the 5th level caster requirement... but then realised that I couldn't actually craft anything useful (most stuff requires at least CL 8). I still can't think of a better way to do it...
Oogar 08-28-06, 11:08 AM	2 feats seems an awful lot for an archer build to spend on crafting some of their own items. I agree that it might not be "too bad" but it would just further widen the gap between item crafters and non-item crafters.
Mommy was an Orc 08-28-06, 11:19 AM	You just need to make something of a Spellsword or Eldritch Knight build. A Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 6 as an example. +13 BAB, casts 6th level spells, gets 4 Fighter bonus feats. Or say Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Wizard 1/Ruathar 3 as a 10 level base for getting yourself to 8th caster level with Practiced Spellcaster.
Puggle Halfwine 08-28-06, 11:37 AM	Yeah... To be honest, I wanted to keep the random multiclass levels to a minimum and go into Occult Slayer as quickly as I could. I was just keeping crafting open as an option, but if I can't do it I can't do it. I just wish there was some way to reduce the amount of gold I have to spend on my bow... archers are heavily reliant on having the best possible weapon available...
DeimosGandymede 08-28-06, 01:03 PM	I am not sure how it works in Greyhawk, since I have yet to try it myself, but can't you take CRAFT as a SKILL, and while it may only be mundane, could be done? /shrug -MW-
blood_kite 08-28-06, 01:14 PM	In LG the Craft skill can only be used to make a little money, meet prestige class prereq's, and the occasional check in a mod to see if a character knows something relavent. You can't use the Craft skill to actually make anything like weapons or armor.
Lupo 08-29-06, 04:29 AM	Yeah... To be honest, I wanted to keep the random multiclass levels to a minimum and go into Occult Slayer as quickly as I could. I was just keeping crafting open as an option, but if I can't do it I can't do it. I just wish there was some way to reduce the amount of gold I have to spend on my bow... archers are heavily reliant on having the best possible weapon available... the one big thingy any archer wants is "bracers of archery, greater", for the rest i would assume to start with (or at least get with the first 1k gp) is a masterwork longbow, strength +4, it will get you through anything up to APL 4or even 6, depending of the friendlyness and spell selection of your party's spellcasters. the additional d6es on your bow(s) mostly depend on your local monster selection and personal taste. don't put to many on one bow, keep a fair selection. in sunndi "bane, aquatic humanoids" seems to be a goody nowadays :). in general, if you can get a locally useful "bane" variant take it, even with a new magic bow, when it otherwise would be enchantment number three or four and therefore kill your cash for the next dozen adventures, hey, it is only 9k gp (for the +4 strength variant) for a +2 to hit and TWO d6es vs. the specific creature. generally useful "banes" seem to be: human (hey, when your ranger already has "favoured enemy humans", why stop half way????l :)), undead, (evil)outsiders, yes, i know some ueber archers with single bows with at least 4 different enchantments on it, but at higher APLs rarely all of them kick in. ciao martin m.
Puggle Halfwine 08-29-06, 10:15 AM	Actually, I was hoping to make my bow "The Equalizer" (after a nice item in Baldur's Gate II, if anyone has played that treasure). The best way I could think of to do that is to make the bow Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. All at once. The more steps you are away from Neutral, the more D6's you take!
Lupo 08-29-06, 03:26 PM	Actually, I was hoping to make my bow "The Equalizer" (after a nice item in Baldur's Gate II, if anyone has played that treasure). The best way I could think of to do that is to make the bow Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. All at once. The more steps you are away from Neutral, the more D6's you take! from the srd: <snip> Anarchic: An anarchic weapon is chaotically aligned and infused with the power of chaos. It makes the weapon chaos-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of lawful alignment. It bestows one negative level on any lawful creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the chaotic power upon their ammunition. Moderate evocation [chaotic]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, chaos hammer, creator must be chaotic; Price +2 bonus. Axiomatic: An axiomatic weapon is lawfully aligned and infused with the power of law. It makes the weapon law-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of chaotic alignment. It bestows one negative level on any chaotic creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the lawful power upon their ammunition. Moderate evocation [lawful]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, order’s wrath, creator must be lawful; Price +2 bonus. Holy: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of evil alignment. It bestows one negative level on any evil creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the holy power upon their ammunition. Moderate evocation [good]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, holy smite, creator must be good; Price +2 bonus. Unholy: An unholy weapon is imbued with unholy power. This power makes the weapon evil-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against all of good alignment. It bestows one negative level on any good creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded. This negative level never results in actual level loss, but it cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the weapon is wielded. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the unholy power upon their ammunition. Moderate evocation [evil]; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, unholy blight, creator must be evil; Price +2 bonus. <snip> you have noticed, you talk about a +9!!! weapon for 162k gp :) in addition you have to be true neutral, or get one or two negative levels. and the most is TWO of the enchantments kicking in. and from a "fairness" viepoint, i would be not amused by weapons that hold opposite alignment. ciao martin m.
kenobi65 08-29-06, 03:31 PM	you have noticed, you talk about a +9!!! weapon for 162k gp :) Well, 81K, if you could craft it yourself; of course, the real trick then is being Lawful, Chaotic, Good, and Evil (since alignment is among the creator prereqs). If you're not crafting it yourself (and crafting the "unholy" enhancement yourself is impossible in LG), then access becomes an issue...and I imagine that access to "unholy" is gonna be a bear to get.