Discretionary Role Play XP Awards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Discretionary Role Play XP Awards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fleetfang
01-08-07, 02:23 PM I've found that as a judge I feel somewhat obligated to grant the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario to the party. I usually give it to everyone in the party, even if they didn't necessarily deserve it, or if one or two players certainly earned it, while others did not.
Most of the time, this is due to a lack of time to actually tabulate each section of XP at the end of the session properly. If the party succeeded, it's max GP and XP, unless the scenario has noted specifically that there are choices that can be made to off-set this total (ie. if they help Farmer Joe, they can only get X gp, but get full xp, but if they rush off to save the Baron's stolen goods, then they get full gp, but only Y xp).
But if faced with enough time to figure out the true Xp that should be awarded, I don't think that I have ever given one player more XP due to role-playing that I did not also give to everyone else.

I'm curious:
Do you always reward all of the players the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario? Or do you award it on a player-to-player basis?

--FF
ShinAkuma2
01-08-07, 02:30 PM I consider it an all-or-nothing deal...Either everyone gets it, or no one does.

Happily, my regular group is pretty good at the roleplaying aspect, so I haven't had to short anyone that exp.
budleiser
01-08-07, 02:40 PM Check the thread history, this exact type of question was brought up not to long ago and had lots of replies.

: Please feel free not to give me max XP. (This feeling does not extend to GP/Favors/Access)
Fleetfang
01-08-07, 02:46 PM Ah, sorry for the repost of the question, then.
As far as I know the Search function for the Wizards boards is still down. If it WAS addressed, though, then I'll be happy to hunt through the lists.

Thanks.
echoota
01-08-07, 03:38 PM For some reason they don't sticky this to the top of every forum here...

If you want to search the forums somewhat you can enter this into a google search along with whatever terms you are looking for:

site:boards1.wizards.com

I'm still baffled as to why this is the only forum in all of my time on the internet that doesn't have a search feature.
kenobi65
01-08-07, 03:51 PM I'm still baffled as to why this is the only forum in all of my time on the internet that doesn't have a search feature.

My suspicion is that the hardware that hosts it isn't robust enough to handle regular searches. I know that EN World only allows searches by Community Supports (i.e., those who have given the site money).
vvincent
01-09-07, 10:47 AM In my opinion - you should never 'feel' obligated to award role-playing experience, nor is it an all-or-nothing proposition. You as the DM are free to determine whether or not someone deserves it. Personally - I don't believe that anyone is 'owed' role-playing XP, any more than they are owed combat XP if they don't get into combat. If you don't fight something (or work to defeat it) - you dont' get combat XP. Similarly - if you're not role-playing, you don't deserve RP XP.

In Verbobonc (which I see you hail from) - many of the adventures have hooks for members of the metaorgs. That should be a good starting place for you to determine role-playing XP. How well did the character's pursue their metaorg's goals? How well do they follow what they claim to follow? That should be a good benchmark for you to start with. Everything else builds on top of that.

Just my opinions. Others obviously differ.

Vernon L. Vincent
Verbobonc Triad

I've found that as a judge I feel somewhat obligated to grant the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario to the party. I usually give it to everyone in the party, even if they didn't necessarily deserve it, or if one or two players certainly earned it, while others did not.
Most of the time, this is due to a lack of time to actually tabulate each section of XP at the end of the session properly. If the party succeeded, it's max GP and XP, unless the scenario has noted specifically that there are choices that can be made to off-set this total (ie. if they help Farmer Joe, they can only get X gp, but get full xp, but if they rush off to save the Baron's stolen goods, then they get full gp, but only Y xp).
But if faced with enough time to figure out the true Xp that should be awarded, I don't think that I have ever given one player more XP due to role-playing that I did not also give to everyone else.

I'm curious:
Do you always reward all of the players the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario? Or do you award it on a player-to-player basis?

--FF
Alpha_Nerd
01-09-07, 10:56 AM Unless someone does something silly like argue with me about metagame knowledge for fifteen minutes I give the party the full experience. It's hard to measure how well someone roleplays. Sure the Bard/Face is going to have more talk to DM/NPCs time, but just because the other people play 8 charisma beaters of badguys doesn't mean they should get docked. What if an 14 int 8 wis 8 cha human fighter doesn't talk because he knows he's bad at diplomacy and the such and doing so would only hurt the cause. With a 14 int, well above average, it's a very logical decision for the character to make.
Iswald
01-09-07, 11:43 AM The only time I didn't want to give the discretionary RP experience, the mod didn't have any. Besides, the party had done a couple extra encounters. Everyone got full xp anyhow.
budleiser
01-09-07, 11:46 AM Unless someone does something silly like argue with me about metagame knowledge for fifteen minutes I give the party the full experience. It's hard to measure how well someone roleplays. Sure the Bard/Face is going to have more talk to DM/NPCs time, but just because the other people play 8 charisma beaters of badguys doesn't mean they should get docked. What if an 14 int 8 wis 8 cha human fighter doesn't talk because he knows he's bad at diplomacy and the such and doing so would only hurt the cause. With a 14 int, well above average, it's a very logical decision for the character to make.

Since when does role play = character talking? I would think actions count towards roleplaying too.
Alpha_Nerd
01-09-07, 11:54 AM I understand Bud, I guess what I was trying to say is it's hard to measure roleplaying. For instance, the guy in my previous post was roleplaying by not doing anything, but how do you measure that?
ranagrande
01-09-07, 12:31 PM The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing.
budleiser
01-09-07, 12:57 PM The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing.

Exactly why I offered not to gain full XP LOL. If they wanted to set this up right, we would LOSE XP for roleplaying. Thus encouraging us to roleplay as much as possible.
amnuxoll
01-09-07, 02:06 PM The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing.

Sadly this, for me, is a major motivator to just always give full roleplaying xp. :(

Also, it's very hard to guage. It may be that the person who only said two things the whole game, has said twice as much as he normally does. Sometimes people are tired. If you're playing a midnight madness game and somebody falls asleep do you dock him xp? That seems...silly. Ultimately, roleplaying should be its own reward.

The bigger issue for me is PC death but that's another thread...
LGMoses
01-09-07, 02:53 PM The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing.

Not if you're like me. I'm running for a VERY small group of players in my area. Everyone is lvl 1 and there are 2 lvl 2 pc's. We're trying very hard to get some to higher levels. Besides, if you just want to see numbers go up and down go play Word of Warcraft or something. There you can squeeze every benefit out of your character in blissful solitude disguised as being part of a huge online "community"
Lord Yod
01-11-07, 03:18 PM So assuming you were to dock XP for not roleplaying, where would you draw the line?

The example I can think of would be the LN cleric of a LN god, who goes around acting chaoticly most of the time. (I posted about this on the LGDM yahoo group about 6-8 months ago if you want to read about it there.)

At what point do you start docking XP? Do you give a warning first? (Something like 'you don't seem to be acting lawful, if you want RP-XP for this mod you better shape up') Do you go over it at the end of the mod with the player, so he can improve?

Seems like a good idea at first, but on second thought if it happened to me I would have a hard time not seeing it as the judge being *ahem* a wienerschnitzel *ahem* out of spite. (My PC's tend to disrupt DMs' plans; I frequently get comments like 'I love *playing* with you, but I can't stand *DMing* for you. Casting Unluck, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud a lot will do that)
budleiser
01-11-07, 04:09 PM So assuming you were to dock XP for not roleplaying, where would you draw the line?

The example I can think of would be the LN cleric of a LN god, who goes around acting chaoticly most of the time. (I posted about this on the LGDM yahoo group about 6-8 months ago if you want to read about it there.)

At what point do you start docking XP? Do you give a warning first? (Something like 'you don't seem to be acting lawful, if you want RP-XP for this mod you better shape up') Do you go over it at the end of the mod with the player, so he can improve?

Seems like a good idea at first, but on second thought if it happened to me I would have a hard time not seeing it as the judge being *ahem* a wienerschnitzel *ahem* out of spite. (My PC's tend to disrupt DMs' plans; I frequently get comments like 'I love *playing* with you, but I can't stand *DMing* for you. Casting Unluck, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud a lot will do that)

All up to the DM. If they want to tell you mid mod, after mod, or maybe not tell you at all just write it on the AR.

The real question is when as a player do you ASK to have your XP docked? ;)
LGMoses
01-12-07, 04:26 PM lol, i had a guy leave a game early the other day. He left too early to get any loot or anything. The only thing he got was the discretionary Xp award
Madfox11
01-15-07, 09:02 AM The example I can think of would be the LN cleric of a LN god, who goes around acting chaoticly most of the time. (I posted about this on the LGDM yahoo group about 6-8 months ago if you want to read about it there.)

I wouldn't dock that character RP xp, I would note it down on his AR with the warning that his deity threatens to remove his spells if he doesn't get his act together. If the action would be really chaotic, he would need an atonement right than and there ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fleetfang 01-08-07, 02:23 PM	I've found that as a judge I feel somewhat obligated to grant the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario to the party. I usually give it to everyone in the party, even if they didn't necessarily deserve it, or if one or two players certainly earned it, while others did not. Most of the time, this is due to a lack of time to actually tabulate each section of XP at the end of the session properly. If the party succeeded, it's max GP and XP, unless the scenario has noted specifically that there are choices that can be made to off-set this total (ie. if they help Farmer Joe, they can only get X gp, but get full xp, but if they rush off to save the Baron's stolen goods, then they get full gp, but only Y xp). But if faced with enough time to figure out the true Xp that should be awarded, I don't think that I have ever given one player more XP due to role-playing that I did not also give to everyone else. I'm curious: Do you always reward all of the players the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario? Or do you award it on a player-to-player basis? --FF
ShinAkuma2 01-08-07, 02:30 PM	I consider it an all-or-nothing deal...Either everyone gets it, or no one does. Happily, my regular group is pretty good at the roleplaying aspect, so I haven't had to short anyone that exp.
budleiser 01-08-07, 02:40 PM	Check the thread history, this exact type of question was brought up not to long ago and had lots of replies. : Please feel free not to give me max XP. (This feeling does not extend to GP/Favors/Access)
Fleetfang 01-08-07, 02:46 PM	Ah, sorry for the repost of the question, then. As far as I know the Search function for the Wizards boards is still down. If it WAS addressed, though, then I'll be happy to hunt through the lists. Thanks.
echoota 01-08-07, 03:38 PM	For some reason they don't sticky this to the top of every forum here... If you want to search the forums somewhat you can enter this into a google search along with whatever terms you are looking for: site:boards1.wizards.com I'm still baffled as to why this is the only forum in all of my time on the internet that doesn't have a search feature.
kenobi65 01-08-07, 03:51 PM	I'm still baffled as to why this is the only forum in all of my time on the internet that doesn't have a search feature. My suspicion is that the hardware that hosts it isn't robust enough to handle regular searches. I know that EN World only allows searches by Community Supports (i.e., those who have given the site money).
vvincent 01-09-07, 10:47 AM	In my opinion - you should never 'feel' obligated to award role-playing experience, nor is it an all-or-nothing proposition. You as the DM are free to determine whether or not someone deserves it. Personally - I don't believe that anyone is 'owed' role-playing XP, any more than they are owed combat XP if they don't get into combat. If you don't fight something (or work to defeat it) - you dont' get combat XP. Similarly - if you're not role-playing, you don't deserve RP XP. In Verbobonc (which I see you hail from) - many of the adventures have hooks for members of the metaorgs. That should be a good starting place for you to determine role-playing XP. How well did the character's pursue their metaorg's goals? How well do they follow what they claim to follow? That should be a good benchmark for you to start with. Everything else builds on top of that. Just my opinions. Others obviously differ. Vernon L. Vincent Verbobonc Triad I've found that as a judge I feel somewhat obligated to grant the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario to the party. I usually give it to everyone in the party, even if they didn't necessarily deserve it, or if one or two players certainly earned it, while others did not. Most of the time, this is due to a lack of time to actually tabulate each section of XP at the end of the session properly. If the party succeeded, it's max GP and XP, unless the scenario has noted specifically that there are choices that can be made to off-set this total (ie. if they help Farmer Joe, they can only get X gp, but get full xp, but if they rush off to save the Baron's stolen goods, then they get full gp, but only Y xp). But if faced with enough time to figure out the true Xp that should be awarded, I don't think that I have ever given one player more XP due to role-playing that I did not also give to everyone else. I'm curious: Do you always reward all of the players the discretionary role-play XP accounted for in the awards section of a scenario? Or do you award it on a player-to-player basis? --FF
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 10:56 AM	Unless someone does something silly like argue with me about metagame knowledge for fifteen minutes I give the party the full experience. It's hard to measure how well someone roleplays. Sure the Bard/Face is going to have more talk to DM/NPCs time, but just because the other people play 8 charisma beaters of badguys doesn't mean they should get docked. What if an 14 int 8 wis 8 cha human fighter doesn't talk because he knows he's bad at diplomacy and the such and doing so would only hurt the cause. With a 14 int, well above average, it's a very logical decision for the character to make.
Iswald 01-09-07, 11:43 AM	The only time I didn't want to give the discretionary RP experience, the mod didn't have any. Besides, the party had done a couple extra encounters. Everyone got full xp anyhow.
budleiser 01-09-07, 11:46 AM	Unless someone does something silly like argue with me about metagame knowledge for fifteen minutes I give the party the full experience. It's hard to measure how well someone roleplays. Sure the Bard/Face is going to have more talk to DM/NPCs time, but just because the other people play 8 charisma beaters of badguys doesn't mean they should get docked. What if an 14 int 8 wis 8 cha human fighter doesn't talk because he knows he's bad at diplomacy and the such and doing so would only hurt the cause. With a 14 int, well above average, it's a very logical decision for the character to make. Since when does role play = character talking? I would think actions count towards roleplaying too.
Alpha_Nerd 01-09-07, 11:54 AM	I understand Bud, I guess what I was trying to say is it's hard to measure roleplaying. For instance, the guy in my previous post was roleplaying by not doing anything, but how do you measure that?
ranagrande 01-09-07, 12:31 PM	The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing.
budleiser 01-09-07, 12:57 PM	The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing. Exactly why I offered not to gain full XP LOL. If they wanted to set this up right, we would LOSE XP for roleplaying. Thus encouraging us to roleplay as much as possible.
amnuxoll 01-09-07, 02:06 PM	The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing. Sadly this, for me, is a major motivator to just always give full roleplaying xp. :( Also, it's very hard to guage. It may be that the person who only said two things the whole game, has said twice as much as he normally does. Sometimes people are tired. If you're playing a midnight madness game and somebody falls asleep do you dock him xp? That seems...silly. Ultimately, roleplaying should be its own reward. The bigger issue for me is PC death but that's another thread...
LGMoses 01-09-07, 02:53 PM	The problem with this is that, in Living Greyhawk, not getting full XP is actually a good thing. Not if you're like me. I'm running for a VERY small group of players in my area. Everyone is lvl 1 and there are 2 lvl 2 pc's. We're trying very hard to get some to higher levels. Besides, if you just want to see numbers go up and down go play Word of Warcraft or something. There you can squeeze every benefit out of your character in blissful solitude disguised as being part of a huge online "community"
Lord Yod 01-11-07, 03:18 PM	So assuming you were to dock XP for not roleplaying, where would you draw the line? The example I can think of would be the LN cleric of a LN god, who goes around acting chaoticly most of the time. (I posted about this on the LGDM yahoo group about 6-8 months ago if you want to read about it there.) At what point do you start docking XP? Do you give a warning first? (Something like 'you don't seem to be acting lawful, if you want RP-XP for this mod you better shape up') Do you go over it at the end of the mod with the player, so he can improve? Seems like a good idea at first, but on second thought if it happened to me I would have a hard time not seeing it as the judge being ahem a wienerschnitzel ahem out of spite. (My PC's tend to disrupt DMs' plans; I frequently get comments like 'I love playing with you, but I can't stand DMing for you. Casting Unluck, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud a lot will do that)
budleiser 01-11-07, 04:09 PM	So assuming you were to dock XP for not roleplaying, where would you draw the line? The example I can think of would be the LN cleric of a LN god, who goes around acting chaoticly most of the time. (I posted about this on the LGDM yahoo group about 6-8 months ago if you want to read about it there.) At what point do you start docking XP? Do you give a warning first? (Something like 'you don't seem to be acting lawful, if you want RP-XP for this mod you better shape up') Do you go over it at the end of the mod with the player, so he can improve? Seems like a good idea at first, but on second thought if it happened to me I would have a hard time not seeing it as the judge being ahem a wienerschnitzel ahem out of spite. (My PC's tend to disrupt DMs' plans; I frequently get comments like 'I love playing with you, but I can't stand DMing for you. Casting Unluck, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud a lot will do that) All up to the DM. If they want to tell you mid mod, after mod, or maybe not tell you at all just write it on the AR. The real question is when as a player do you ASK to have your XP docked? ;)
LGMoses 01-12-07, 04:26 PM	lol, i had a guy leave a game early the other day. He left too early to get any loot or anything. The only thing he got was the discretionary Xp award
Madfox11 01-15-07, 09:02 AM	The example I can think of would be the LN cleric of a LN god, who goes around acting chaoticly most of the time. (I posted about this on the LGDM yahoo group about 6-8 months ago if you want to read about it there.) I wouldn't dock that character RP xp, I would note it down on his AR with the warning that his deity threatens to remove his spells if he doesn't get his act together. If the action would be really chaotic, he would need an atonement right than and there ;)