Post/Author/DateTime	Post
delewobmesid 04-05-07, 11:04 AM	My Triad is considering giving access to this prestidge class at level 5 through a meta org; is this a balanced prestidge class?
taylorj 04-05-07, 11:07 AM	My Triad is considering giving access to this prestidge class at level 5 through a meta org; is this a balanced prestidge class? IIRC, the big benefit of Dracolexi was getting Power Word spells earlier. Unless there are inherently broken Power Words in the game, what could really go wrong?
delewobmesid 04-05-07, 11:18 AM	IIRC, the big benefit of Dracolexi was getting Power Word spells earlier. Unless there are inherently broken Power Words in the game, what could really go wrong? your not looking at the 'side' words you pick up; for example at first level, everyone can understand what your saying (not broken); at 4th level you get unlimited healing (caster level in healing every round); at 7th recall spell slot at highest level; 10th free empower every casting; Is there an errate for Races of Dragons?
taylorj 04-05-07, 11:27 AM	your not looking at the 'side' words you pick up; for example at first level, everyone can understand what your saying (not broken); at 4th level you get unlimited healing (caster level in healing every round); at 7th recall spell slot at highest level; 10th free empower every casting; Couldn't you only use a given word once per target per day or something? So you could heal each member of the party your caster level in healing... once a day. Useful, certainly, but not brokenly powerful, particularly at the level you're getting it. At 9th level, a wizard has better things to do than give someone the equivalent of a maximized CLW once per mod. I forget the precise language on the uses of draconic words, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't truly "unlimited uses with no restrictions".
delewobmesid 04-05-07, 11:32 AM	as far as I could see it was 'once a round'
Paul H 04-05-07, 05:27 PM	Races of the Dragon, Pg 80 "You can use each Draconic word any number of times per day, but no more than one word can be used each round (nor can you use the same word more than once per round). No creature can be targeted by the same Draconic word twice in a 24-hour period". Italics are mine. Yep you can use it at will, is even a swift action, but the party can only benefit once each per word per day. These 'instant' free feats could be a bit broken - depending on the interpretation of 'creature'. If the answer is yes, the caster counts as a creature, so can only use the 'free' feats (eg extend spell for Ssearth) once per day casting their own spells, then it's OK. The main problem I see is the access to the new Power Word.... spells. Are they 'Closed'? Cheers Paul H
Samwise 04-05-07, 11:23 PM	The main problem I see is the access to the new Power Word.... spells. Are they 'Closed'? Cheers Paul H You don't want Power Word Pain to be used in the campaign.
Britt 04-05-07, 11:52 PM	Power Word: Pain is in the "Not in a thousand years; over my cold, undead, but still right sexy, body" category. If it's not on the Closed list it's only because we didn't address that book with the LGCS.
Samwise 04-06-07, 12:06 AM	What if is open to anyone who survive having it cast on their character - In an intro adventure. And only if you are a sorceror or wizard already. That would be fair, wouldn't it? :D Oh, and since my wizard traveled more than a thousand years into the past in an adventure, does that mean he can use it? :angelhide The others are vaguely harmless, though I expect someone, somewhere, could figure out how to stack Power Word Fatigue in an irritating manner. That one though . . . *SHUDDER* "The Spell Which Must Not Be Cast"
magebeast 04-06-07, 02:20 AM	You don't want Power Word Pain to be used in the campaign. Are you saying that we don't want NPCs using it? Because I'm not seeing it as all *that* mean. It's so slow acting.
bitznarf 04-06-07, 02:41 AM	Are you saying that we don't want NPCs using it? Because I'm not seeing it as all *that* mean. It's so slow acting. Just think of how much healing it would take to counteract this... if it were legal, it could very easily show up in an intro mod... we don't want it in LG. Its not as big a problem at higher APL's where things like lesser vigour would be more readily available. But the potential is there for 16d6 (on average 10d6) damage.. from a first level spell, caster level 1... with no save.
Samwise 04-06-07, 02:51 AM	Are you saying that we don't want NPCs using it? Because I'm not seeing it as all *that* mean. It's so slow acting. Have you analyzed the damage potential? 1d6 damage for 4d4 rounds That's 3.5 damage every round for 10 rounds, or 35 damage. A 1st level wizard or sorcerer typically has 6 hp. That puts him at -29. Assuming you have a cleric with the healing domain who took cure light wounds as his domain spell, his spells will heal an average of 22.5 damage. So you can save the wizard, and have 2 or 3 cure minor wounds spells left for the day. If your cleric doesn't have the healing domain, you have a 50/50 chance of saving the wizard by blowing all your spells for the day. Just how many potions and scrolls of cure light wounds does your APL 2 party have anyway? It isn't much better for any other 1st level character. Each HD higher adds 2 hp, as will a 16 Con. With a d12, 20 Con, and Toughness, average damage still drops you to -15 hp, and the cleric needs to start burning spells. And then the next encounter begins . . . Or not. Three 1st level sorcerers is an EL 3 encounter, and you just got three of those things dropped on you in one round. At 3.5 damage per round on three different people, even a cleric with a happy stick is going to have trouble saving everyone. (He heals you every three rounds for 5.5 damage while you take 10.5 damage. At the end of 9 rounds, our d4 HD/14 Con people are at -9, and our d6 HD/14 Con people are at -7, with another 3.5 damage coming at them. Pick which one lives. (Unless the d4 guy has failed a stabilize check and is already dead of course.) It doesn't matter how slow the damage is if it overloads any reasonable healing reserve a group might have at a particular level.
WotC_Tulach 04-06-07, 03:00 AM	Of course, this is just with the spell itself. A Sudden Empowered version would do even more damage. Or, a sorcerer that manages to have it fire off on 3 different targets over 3 rounds ...
Maesto 04-06-07, 03:10 AM	ooh! ooh! ooh! Can I chain it?
Madfox11 04-06-07, 03:36 AM	I thought we already closed that spell? I certainly remember us saying it would be closed when it was first published...
Samwise 04-06-07, 03:44 AM	ooh! ooh! ooh! Can I chain it? Chaining defeats the purpose. Because of howPower Word spells work, they are tied to the hp of the target, they have worse effects on critters already wounded or that start with few hp. For Power Word Pain specifically, the threat to d8, d10, and d12 HD characters drops off significantly at APL 4, and for d4 and d6 HD characters around APL 6. Chaining it up 4th level means you can't use it at APL 2. But let's add to the madness: Since it is verbal component only, we don't need to worry about spell failure. A kobold sorcerer 1 can be decked out in half-plate and tower shield for AC 22 (or total cover). With any decent blockers, he should get off at least two spells, likely three, and possibly all four. Or we could go for true theater of the absurd: knight 2/sorcerer 1. AC 26 (+1 full plate, +1 tower shield, +1 Dex, +1 size), 27 hit points, plus whatever cruelty his two feats inflict, and maybe even some other AC boosting magic. Of course for sublime absurdity, just have a 17th level wizard running around using it with the innate spell feat, slaughtering whole villages as the bad guy at APL 14. You don't need to count how many ways this spell can be abused, but how many ways you can find to include it where it isn't being abused.
King Kashue 04-06-07, 04:37 AM	Just how many potions and scrolls of cure light wounds does your APL 2 party have anyway?. Every one of my characters has 6 potions and at least 4 scrolls by the time they hit second level...My cleric has 10 scrolls... As a player, when you "grow up" in Onnwal, you develop 'cautious' habits :D
Mommy was an Orc 04-06-07, 10:37 AM	Just how many potions and scrolls of cure light wounds does your APL 2 party have anyway? How about very few. Wand of CLW is now Any access... :)
Samwise 04-06-07, 11:59 AM	Remember, this can be dropped in an intro with only marginal cause to call it unfair (unless you think EL 3 encounters should be standard in intros, I don't), and is more than reasonable for a standard APL 2 adventure. Mind you, I think it's right that people start dropping that much on healing consumables, but should we do a quick survey at our local venues for how many others feel the same? And even if you have, see above for how effective it will be if you get hit with more than one power word pain at the same time. Should we add a check for how many parties have multiple divine casters to use them? :D
Timlagor 04-06-07, 02:54 PM	Adding the low level dispel spell might help somewhat.
boolean 04-07-07, 09:02 AM	Power Word: Pain is in the "Not in a thousand years; over my cold, undead, but still right sexy, body" category. If it's not on the Closed list it's only because we didn't address that book with the LGCS. I can think of one situation in which you might allow PW: Pain. If they ever release errata for RotD, they might change PW: P to the correct level. There's common speculation that PW: P and one of the other power word spells were accidentally switched in level, and PW: P should be third or fourth level.
GreatSiron 04-07-07, 07:10 PM	What are the requirements for this class? I got access to this today (and Ruathar). :dancin: And is it really that good? (Better than Fatespinner/Divine Oracle)?
Timlagor 04-07-07, 07:46 PM	Looks like it's going to get CLOSED in the next DC so I wouldn't worry about it.
GreatSiron 04-07-07, 11:04 PM	Seriously? I thought they were going just close PW: Pain? Man, that stinks.
Maesto 04-08-07, 04:22 AM	Unless you can only use the special word things on yourself once each per day, this seems like an overpowered PRC. Ruathar is a great casting PRC. It's a great springboard into any other PRC, as it basically opens up all of the skills, and gives you skillpoints, as well as other bonuses. Better than sorceror levels any day. Also good saves.
GreatSiron 04-08-07, 01:45 PM	Ok, I will post one more question, and hope it will be answered. (People seem to like giving me the runaround). Can a wizard take this prestige class, or does it require sorcerer lvls like Dragon Disciple?
Samwise 04-08-07, 01:50 PM	Ok, I will post one more question, and hope it will be answered. (People seem to like giving me the runaround). Can a wizard take this prestige class, or does it require sorcerer lvls like Dragon Disciple? The class requires: "Must be able to spontaneously cast 2nd-level arcane spells, must know at least one languagedependent spell." I am pretty sure that requires bard, beguiler, or sorcerer.
GreatSiron 04-08-07, 02:04 PM	The class requires: "Must be able to spontaneously cast 2nd-level arcane spells, must know at least one languagedependent spell." I am pretty sure that requires bard, beguiler, or sorcerer. Unless the feat Alacritous Cogitiation counts as casting spontaneously, then I suppose its a moot point. At least I still qualify for Ruathar. I wonder if we get to keep the item we get with it's first class ability?
Madfox11 04-09-07, 07:32 AM	At least I still qualify for Ruathar. I wonder if we get to keep the item we get with it's first class ability? This has been dealt with in the Dispel Confusions: yes you get to keep the item, it must be from the list provided in the prestige class description (unless noted otherwise on the AR) and it must be noted down as 0 gp on the MIL. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns
Hariman 04-10-07, 01:40 AM	Upon examining the class, I'd say that it IS balanced. Although you CAN use certain draconic words all day every day. But there are restrictions on how to use each word, and on what certain words can be applied to. Take "Valignat" (Burn) a tenth level dracolexi word of power.: You can only hit each enemy once with this word, for 5d6 damage. Not a lot at level 15, even with no save.. Additionally, only FIRE SPELLS can be empowered or widened. A large number of monsters are fire resistant or fire immune. Or perhaps "Veschik (Replenish)" the seventh level dracolexi "extra spell slot" word. You can only apply this word to SPONTANEOUS SPELL SLOTS. So you'd better have a Favored Soul for a healer. Bards, Beguilers, Hexblades, Sorcerers and Warmages all get the benefit though. AND you lose a level of spellcasting. Sure, you can get a free extend spell for a lot of spells, but you lag behind the normal spellcasting of your class. It's a cool class, but not broken. It's actually protected from being as broken as it could be because the worse power word spells are getting "Closed". Hariman
Timlagor 04-10-07, 12:32 PM	(I read that) The Funky Summoning Class was Closed purely because it got to do something with Gate and The Circle isn't allowed to mess about with classes (just say yes or no)... in any even we'll see what happens soon enough.
bitznarf 04-10-07, 12:35 PM	Gate + (a monster that can cast wish) = infinte wishes. Same goes for a candle of invocation.
King Kashue 04-10-07, 03:07 PM	(I read that) The Funky Summoning Class was Closed purely because it got to do something with Gate and The Circle isn't allowed to mess about with classes (just say yes or no)... in any even we'll see what happens soon enough. However, they can close abilities that mimic spells that are closed. The Alter self tattoo for the Tattooed monk class, for instance.
Maesto 04-12-07, 12:06 PM	What's the cheese with a candle of invocation?
bitznarf 04-13-07, 01:17 PM	Basically a cheap way for any character to use a gate spell, thus starting the infinite wish loop by casting Wishes out of a custom Ring of Infinite wishes created by Spell-like Wishes from powerful Outsiders (which, as spell-like abilities, can create magic items at no XP or GP cost to the caster, and as Wishes, require no feats to create). Look for 'The Wish and The Word' as linked in this post Campaign Smashers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=587555) Character #1 Poster Name: K Character Name: The Wish "I want you to stop Wishing." "Would you say that you Wish that I stop Wishing?" "No." Race/Class/Level: Human Warlock 12/Initiate of the Seven Veils 7/Mage of The Arcane Order 1. System: Forgotten Realms Short Description: This character manipulated several loopholes in the laws of magic to devestate his enemies and survive his brother's magical powers. By casting Wishes out of a custom Ring of Infinite wishes created by Spell-like Wishes from powerful Outsiders (which, as spell-like abilities, can create magic items at no XP or GP cost to the caster, and as Wishes, require no feats to create). Mostly, he just Wishes his problems away by emulating a vast array of potential spells with Wish. High-end effects are cast from Divinely Quickened Scrolls created by Wish. Ability Scores: Str: 8 (dependant on current templated "human" form gained with Polymorph Any Object) Dex: 8 (see above) Con: 8 (See above) Int: 18 (23 + items) Wis: 8 (13 + items) Cha: 18 (34) Character Sheet: Diety: None Alignment: Varies with the current casting of a Contingent Atonement, Hit Points: Average, but with bumper crops of temp HPs and Con-boosted HPs Saves: Fort 6/Ref 6/ Will 15(with +6 from a Cloak of Resistance and a Roving +6 for Devil's Own Luck) Progression: 1 Warlock 1 Magical Training(for spellcasting) Precocious Apprentice(for a 2nd level spell) 2 Warlock 2 3 Warlock 3 Supernatural Transformation(Eldritch Blast) 4 Warlock 4 5 Warlock 5 6 Warlock 6 Spell Focus(Abjuration) 7 Warlock 7 8 Warlock 8 9 Warlock 9 Skill Focus(Spellcraft) 10 Warlock 10 11 Warlock 11 12 Warlock 12 Greater Spell Focus(Abjuration) 13 Initiate of the Seven Veils 1/Warlock 12 [To get into IoSV, you need five Abjurations, with one at 4th level. Combined with the Warlock Invocations that are Abjuations effects like Devour Magic. Voracious Dispelling, and Entropic Warding and spell gained from (which count as spells for meeting PrC requirements per the Complete Arcane pg 70) and spells from Magical Training off the Wizard list for more abjurations, while Precocious Apprentice provides the needed ability to cast 2nd level spells] 14 Initiate of the Seven Veils 2/Warlock 12 15 Initiate of the Seven Veils 3/Warlock 12 Sudden widen 16 Initiate of the Seven Veils 4/Warlock 12 17 Initiate of the Seven Veils 5/Warlock 12 18 Initiate of the Seven Veils 6/Warlock 12 Cooperative Spell 19 Initiate of the Seven Veils 7/Warlock 12 20 Mage of the Arcane Order 1/Initiate of the Seven Veils 7/Warlock 12 Skills of note: Use Magic Device: 35 (and takes 10 with Warlock's 4th level power to boot) Spells of Note: --Eldritch Might(20th, as a Supernatural power, which punches through SR) --Full 20th level Warlock casting and Invocations with crazy-go-nuts powers to boot. Items of Note: --Ring Of Infinite Divinely Quickened Wishes (created by an Efreet or Pit Fiend or whatever's spell-like ability used at the behest of my cast Gate Scroll bought using my normal treasure). --Used Scrolls of Gate and Heroism and Quickened Guidance and that Bard +skill spell --Used Wishes for +5 Inherant Bonuses to all stats --+6 cloak of Charisma --Contingent spells(creatd with the Contingent spell feat tat I don't need with a Wish) created by the above Ring with crazy effects like Atonement spells that change my alignment to match the casting of the Word's spells. --Contingent Wishes to avert any ill event What Books are Needed for this Build? PHB DMG Complete Arcane Player's Guide to Faerun Savage Species Character #2 Poster Name: Frank Trollman (ftrollma@ucsc.edu) Character Name The Word "I'm sure you've sinned against something. That will be your downfall. Race/Class/Level: The Word is a Human Sorcerer 1/ Assassin 1/Wujen 1/ Warmage 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1. Yes, Really. System: These characters are from the Forgotten Realms, although with minimal alteration could be transferred to other settings. Short Description: The Word can throw Holy Words and Blasphemies at caster level 110, as supernatural abilities that automatically penetrate all SR. Both The Wish and The Word are immune to both spells, but anything else with less than 99 hit dice dies without recourse to a saving throw or spell resistance. Of course, he's also got full spellcasting in the traditional sense, so he's hardly powerless against creatures which are immune to his big trick. Ability Scores: Str: 10 (21) Dex:10 (21) Con: 12 (21) Int: 14 (19) Wis:14 (31) Cha: 14 (31) Character Sheet: The Word distains all deities equally and is Lawful Evil. He currently looks like a completely non-descript man somewhere between his twenties and thirties. His height, weight, and girth are all exactly average, because he's been transformed back into the platonic ideal of a “human”. His skin and eye color are the deep tan you get when you mix all possible human colorations together in a vat. Hit Points: 169, Saves: Fort: +16, Will: +39, Ref: +18 Progression: Using the magic of the Thought Bottle, the Word acually loses and regains levels three times, so levels are all shown in the order taken, with the appropriate levels he has at that point. Because a lot of levels are being taken, retaken, and reshuffled, we will always place the level which is presently being incremented as the first list level at each point (however transient that point may be). First Life: Human 1 Bard 1 Iron Will, Spell Focus: Evil 2 Ranger 1/ Bard 1 3 Ranger 2/ Bard 1 Still Spell, rapid shot 4 Ranger 3/ Bard 1 endurance 5 Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 Silent Spell 6 Ur Priest 1/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 cooperative spell 7 Ur Priest 2/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 8 Ur Priest 3/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 9 Ur Priest 4/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 extend spell 10 Ur Priest 5/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 11 Ur Priest 6/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 12 Ur Priest 7/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 persistent spell 13 Ur Priest 8/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 14 Ur Priest 9/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 15 Ur Priest 10/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 contingent spell 16 Fighter 1/Ur Priest 10/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 dodge 17 Fighter 2/Ur Priest 10/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 mobility 18 Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 2/Ur Priest 10/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 Weapon Finesse, divine persistent spell 19 Contemplative 1/Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 2/Ur Priest 10/ Wu Jen 1/Ranger 3/ Bard 1 Spell Focus: Enchantment (from the domination domain) Here's where the magic kicks in: The Word stores all of his copius XP in a Thought Bottle, and is killed by a Shadow. Based upon his long range plans and hatred of the gods, it is most probable that he voluntarily is killed by a Shadow. He uses his own Rebuke Undead ability to force a Shadow that he created with a Create Undead spell to kill him. This causes him to transform into a Shadow Spawn... exactly as he intended. Second Life: Shadow He is brought back as a Shadow Spawn. This means that his effective character level is reset to 10 as per Savage Species page 210. His stats are now Str -, Dex 14, Con -, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 13. 10 3 Shadow Hit Dice, Point Blank Shot, Alertness 11 Bard +1 Cha 12 Bard 13 Bard 14 Bard 15 Emancipated Spawn, +1 Cha 16 Bard 17 Bard 18 Bard 19 Sublime Chord, +1 Cha Third Life: Rakshasa The Word does not actually die, but he does undergo a Ritual of Vitality (Savage Species, page 150), this sets him back 105,000 XP, leaving him barely enough XP to be 13th level. He can't drop the racial levels until the Ritual goes off, so instead he loses a bunch of Bard levels. As per the FAQ, the highest class levels (in this case the Bard levels) are lost first, reducing him to a Shadow 10/ Sublime Chord 1/ Emancipated Spawn 1/ Bard 1, and then replacing the Shadow levels with 14 levels of Rakshasa. This replaces his physical stats with Str 12, Dex 14, Con 16, it does not change his mental stats (although they do go up with the racial class features of the Rakshasa, as depicted on page 191 of the MM). For simplicity, Rakshasa abilities that don't stay after the Word changes his race again and do not affect Prestige Class entrance are being omitted. He loses all the feats and skills accumulated during those levels, so unfortunately he won't have Profession: Astrologer anymore. Dang! 1 Rakshasa 1 Combat Casting, All Martial Weapons 2 Rakshasa 2, +2 Int 3 Rakshasa 3 4 Rakshasa 4 5 Rakshasa 5 Alertness 6 Rakshasa 6 7 Rakshasa 7, +2 Wis 8 Rakshasa 8 9 Rakshasa 9, +2 Cha 10 Rakshasa10 11 Rakshasa 11 combat reflexes 12 Rakshasa 12 13 Rakshasa 13, +2 Cha 14 Rakshasa 14 Rakshasa levels hook us up with Tumble, Jump, and the Language of Ancient Suloise. 15 Sublime Chord 1/Rakshasa 14, +1 Wis 16 Emancipated Spawn 1/Sublime Chord 1/Rakshasa 14 17 Bard 1/Emancipated Spawn 1/Sublime Chord 1/Rakshasa 14 18 Emancipated Spawn 2/ Bard 1/Sublime Chord 1/Rakshasa 14 19 Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/ Bard 1/Sublime Chord 1/Rakshasa 14 elusive target, +1 Wis Fourth Life: Human Again The Word undergoes the Ritual of Vitality again, but this time becomes a lowly human. This removes all of the Rakshasa levels, so the accumulated feats of comnbat casting, alertness, and combat reflexes are lost. But then he picks up 14 new levels by touching the Thought Bottle again. 1 Emancipated Spawn 1 combat reflexes, sudden extend 2 Bard 1/ Emancipated Spawn 1 3 Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 elusive target Elusive Target is not presently legal, but it was legal when he got it, and the level he got it in has not gone away, so it sticks around and he can't use it until his BAB goes up past 6 – such as when he casts a Divine Persistent Divine Power. 4 Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1, +1 Wis 5 Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 6 Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 scribe scroll, Inate Spell: Blasphemy (that's the one from PGtF) 7 Mage of the Arcane Order 1/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 Mage of the Arcane Order, of course, adds to the Sublime Chord Caster Levels. 8 Mage of the Arcane Order 2/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 sudden empower, +1 Wis 9 Mage of the Arcane Order 3/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 Supernatural Transformation: Blasphemy 10 Mage of the Arcane Order 4/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 11 Mage of the Arcane Order 5/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 12 Mage of the Arcane Order 6/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 Improved Initiative, +1 Wis 13 Mage of the Arcane Order 7/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 14 Mage of the Arcane Order 8/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 15 Mage of the Arcane Order 9/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 Inate Spell: Holy Word, Supernatural Transformation: Holy Word 16 Warmage 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 , +1 Wis 17 Wujen 1/ Warmage 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 quicken spell 18 Assassin 1/Wujen 1/ Warmage 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 Great Fortitude 19 Sorcerer 1/ Assassin 1/Wujen 1/ Warmage 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/ Wizard 1/Sublime Chord 1/ Suel Arcanamach 1/Emancipated Spawn 2/Bard 1 Final Ability Scores: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 8, Wis 20, Cha 20, he also has 5 inherent bonuses to each stat, and +6 enhancements to each stat – so his final scores are: 21, 21, 21, 19, 31, 31. Not terribly impressive, but they don't need to be. feats: Iron Will, Spell Focus: Evil, Still Spell, rapid shot, endurance,Silent Spell, cooperative spell, extend spell, persistent spell, contingent spell, dodge, mobility, Weapon Finesse, divine persistent spell, Spell Focus: Enchantment, combat reflexes, sudden extend, elusive target, scribe scroll, Inate Spell: Blasphemy, sudden empower, Supernatural Transformation: Blasphemy, Improved Initiative, Inate Spell: Holy Word, Supernatural Transformation: Holy Word, quicken spell, Great Fortitude Skills of note: Search: 22 ranks Disable Device: 22 ranks Hide: 8+ ranks Disguise: 10 ranks Move Silently: 8+ ranks Knowledge: Arcana 13 ranks Knowledge: Religion 22 ranks Spellcraft: 22 ranks Note: I'm being purposefully vague about exactly how many skills he has, because he's used the Savage Species rituals several times – and exactly what happens to your skills when that happens is up for debate. It is entirely possible that he still has the Profession: Astrologer, the Tumble, the Jump, and all that crap left over from his old races. Spells of Note: The Word takes full advantage of the excentricities of the Ur Priest and the Sublime Chord. The Sublime Chord resets all of your arcane caster levels to the sum of all of your arcane caster levels. So in this case, since The Word has 8 separate Arcane Spellcasting classes with a caster level of 11. If he pulls an Orange Ioun Stone out of his pocket, all 8 classes increase by one, and all eight of them are set to the new sum – of 12. Repeat this with 17 more Stones, and we get a grant total of 28 for all his classes. The Ur Priest, which The Word can use as if he had all 10 levels of it thanks to his “Recall Class Features” ability of the Emancipated Spawn class, takes as its caster level half the sum of all other caster levels. In this case, that's half of eight times 28, which is 112, plus a base caster level of 10. So The Word casts all Arcane Spells at level 28, and all Divine spells at level one hundred and twenty-two. The most important spells that The Word has are Holy Word and Blasphemy – both of which can be cast as spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities 3 times/day. As supernatural abilities. The important part is the spellcaster levels that they can be cast at, which is one hundred and ten or higher. The other important part to keep in mind is that The Word is technically possessed of every single alignment, which means that when he casts Blasphemy he is not “not evil”, and when he casts Holy Word he is not “not good”. This means that is “evil” for the purposes of Holy Smite, but so what? The Word also amuses himself by periodically casting Clerical buffs on himself and his brother. Who would turn down an Extended Superior Resistance? It grants a +6 Resistance Bonus to all saves and lasts over nine days. Of more limited scope are the Sublime Chord spells. Most notable among them are Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Shapechange, Gate, Polymorph Any Object, Mind Blank, Greater Teleport, Otto's Irresistable Dance, Mass Charm, and Modify Memory. Of course, to an extent it doesn't really matter what spells he knows, because he's also got a spell pool for being a member of the Arcane Order. He can tax the spellpool out to half his caster level – which in this case means that he can suck out 155 spell levels. Items of Note: 18 Orange Ioun Stones for +caster level each (and more when added together) for 564,000. They aren't items, exactly, but The Word invested in several Rituals of Vitality. The Rakshasa transformation set our hero back 196,000 gp, paid in 14 stages of 14,000 gp. The human transformation was much cheaper – costing only 7,000 gp. He also underwent two Rituals of Alignment to gain the [Good] and [Chaotic] subtypes. The only truly necessary item is the Thought Bottle, that marvelous trinket from the Complete Arcane. What books are needed for this build? Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, Savage Species, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Player's Guide to Feyrun. The Duo Are these characters the perfect duo? Yes. The Wish and The Word are the most powerful spellcasters. Ever. The Word has stolen the powers of the gods themselves, and The Wish has torn the rigid rules of arcane power asunder. The two of them flippantly disregard the guidelines of spells/day limits or caster level paradigms that so constrain lesser spellcasters. Having broken free of the self-imposed limitations of Arcane and Divne Magic, The Wish and The Word can adventure with confidence against Epic Challenges and gods. There has never been a published challenge which is a serious threat to the brothers. How would the Duo kick ass against the following? Aberrations/Magical Beasts etc: The Terrasque is slain in a one/two action of The Word reciting the Blasphemy of all Blasphemies that instantly kills it, and The Wish makes the plea that forbids its return. A single Blasphemy or Holy Word backed up by a Wish kills it in one round. Constructs: Some of those Epic Golems are a problem. Not so much the poor Colossus, whose Antimagic Field is absolutely no help at all against The Word's 100% chance of blowing it down with a Disjunction. But against creatures which are simply Magic Immune, The Wish pulls out all the stops with his unlimited Summon Monster VIIIs, as well as formiddable battlefield shaping prowess. An Adamantine Golem must deal with the fact that The Wish can wish for intervening Walls of Iron faster than the Adamant Golem can tear them down – and The Wish can pull in some teleporting and burrowing monsters besides. An Adamant Golem must deal with a bottomless supply of expendable monsters coming from the other end of an impassable barrier – which it simply cannot do. Remember: Admantine Golems are not immune to extraordinary Light Energy damage. They aren't even resistant to it. With enough Lantern Archons, you can kill one in a round. The Wish can get enough Lantern Archons. Failing that, of course, any Construct that The Word can see is something he can turn himself into, with all of his buffs still applying (spells don't drop off just because you are no longer a legal target or Enlarge Person wouldn't work at all). With his Divine Persistent Divine Power going 24/7, he can punch out an Adamantine Golem with little fanfare. Dragons: The Wish can wish them a Slime Wave, which does pretty nasty things to any Dragon large enough to make these two care. Of course, even a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon “only” has 78 hit dice – which is not enough to forstall an instant kill by a long shot. Elementals/Outsiders: Since the vast majority of outsiders are a snap, and since The Wish and The Word are very strongly in the Athar camp, we will deal with their plans to wipe out two appropriate challenges: Hextor and Heironius. These powerful gods hate our heroes, which would be very bad if they didn't constantly benefit from Mind Blank. So The Wish wishes them into the presence of Hextor, or uses a Gate out of the Ring of Spell Storing, and The Word has a readied action with a Supernatural Ability of Holy Word or a Holy Word as a contingent spell. In either case, Hextor's puny spell resistance is rendered moot (either because The Word has a spellcaster level that is over sixty points higher than Hextor's SR, or because Supernatural Abilities bypass all SR) and Hextor dies a horrible death because he's facing a Holy Word above the magic number of caster level 67. By a huge margin. If currently necessary, The Wish uses up one of his Contingency Atonements to survive. If they used a contingency Holy Word to slay Hextor, The Word can open up another Gate on his own round to Heironius and slay him with a contingency Blasphemy in the very same round. Undead: The Atropal only has 66 hit dice, so it can't survive a single Holy Word from The Word. Also, its Neagtive Energy Aura can't penetrate The Word's Death Ward, nor can any of its othe gimics. The most powerful Undead the world has seen is chaffe before the might of The Word by himself. To compound such greta fortune, The Wish can Wish up a pizza, that the brothers might enjoy a meal on the blasted hillock that stands where the power of detah itself showed the hubris to make itself manifest in the form of the malformed fetus of a would-be god. Traps: The Word has a substantial Search Skill, and The Wish loses nothing by replicating a Find Traps spell with one of his unlimited wishes. Political Intrigue: The Wish can replicate such fabulous Bardic Spells as Glibness with Wishing, and can crank his Bluff Checks into the low hundreds with little strain. A Bluff check that high acts as a suggestion, so basically he can tell people to knock off all the intrigue and start tearing down the churches – and they'll just go do that. Also he can read everyone's mind, detect all alignments, know truth from lies, and fact from fiction. Diplomatic Maneuvers: The Wish has access to a number of divinations. That number is “all of them”. Also they can Diplomacize the iron out of the ground. Actually, they have to use Polymorph Any Object for that – but that's really OK. With functionally limitless wealth in gold, gems, food, and magic, they can bribe everyone they don't feel like killing. They can have a truly “big tent” diplomatic program because The Wish can just wish up anything that anyone wants as a negotiating strategy carrot, and The Word can kill basically anyone as a negotiating tactic stick. A BBEG/ Mastermind/ Warlord: The Wish and The Word are themselves undetectable, and have no particular need for constant territory. It then becomes merely a question of whether The Wish and The Word can find the enemy Mastermind – since the Mastermind will never find them. On arival, The Word can dump a Disjunction, a truly Irressistable Dance, or a Holy Word as appropriate. The Wish can use any spell he feels like; I'm partial to Irrsessistable Dances alternated with summonings and attack Wishes, but you can have a grab bag here. The Wish and The Word can come up with Gather Information checks that will tell them the kind of toothpaste the Mastermind's parents used when he was a kid, and have access to an unlimited number of Communes and Discern Locations, so finding the guy shouldn't be much of a problem. Mobs: Hordes are of little problem when you can slap a room clearing spell that will clear the room of any group of Hecatoncheires, let alone mobs of weaker creatures. The Word has several such spells, and The Wish has all the rest. Overwhelming Odds: The Word gives his brother the solemn protection of all the gods, which manifests itself as Spell Resistance, Death Ward, Etc. at a caster level of 110 (or more, if he pulls out the other Orange Ioun Stones – they stack). This means that both of them have SR of 122, as well as a substantial number of immunities. They can slay any monster, man, or god ever printed in any sourcebook or compendium of horrors that I am aware of, often in less than a round. Nevertheless, should they encounter some horror from beyond the spheres so horrible, so unspeakable that it has as yet not been statted, The Wish still has recourse in that he can undo the very laws of causality themselves and remove all traces of such an ill-fated adventure. The Wish of “I wish we never went on this adventure” is still available. If all else fails, The Wish and the Word can flea beyond and before any possible pursuit can even have begun through the cosmic mulligan.
Hariman 04-13-07, 10:05 PM	Unless the feat Alacritous Cogitiation counts as casting spontaneously, then I suppose its a moot point. At least I still qualify for Ruathar. I wonder if we get to keep the item we get with it's first class ability? Alacritous Cogitation states that it can only be used one per day. So no bonus spell there. It's a good class, but not broken.