Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MatBlack 12-11-06, 12:53 PM	hey everyone, i was wondering if there was any word on the Drinkers of the Cup Midnight Meta-Org from the Iuz Regional mods. a certain mod (not saying which) involves joining by Dec 31 of 06, and i'd certainly be bummed to miss out simply because it didn't exist in time.
Britt 12-11-06, 01:00 PM	Final draft phase. Need to trim a couple of things from it and change the names of the tiers, that's all.
MatBlack 12-11-06, 01:05 PM	awesome! thanks for the hard work, britt!
Japangirl 12-11-06, 04:55 PM	YAY! I've been looking forward to this meta-org ever since my party declined to kill the founder/leader after saving her.
clannagh 12-11-06, 05:01 PM	Assuming it becomes available ... would you need to play an IUZ mod before 31st to join the metaorg?
Britt 12-11-06, 05:06 PM	The requirements include playing at least one IUZ mod and having a home region in the IUZ metaregion. It doesn't mean you have to play an IUZ mod right before joining though.
LachlarlanIII 12-11-06, 05:11 PM	Just to make sure. If the meta-org doesn't come out before the end of the year, will we still be able to use the favor listed, or will we be denied something of which we couldn't take advantage in the first place? I just want to be absolutely sure.
Britt 12-11-06, 05:31 PM	It will be out before the end of the year.
Lomiat 12-11-06, 05:44 PM	My question is rather specific, but perhaps an answer will serve to aid other people as well: My wizard gained the favors "A Proven Hero" and "A Legendary Hero," thereby satisfying all favor and time requirements for the 3rd tier of membership in the Drinkers metaorg. He is also out of TUs for the year. When the metaorg becomes available, will I be able to slot it in among his ARs for the year? If any gp adjustment is necessary, would I be able to correct that on my last AR and have a judge sign the correction? (Fortunately, his last AR is an IUZ metaregional.)
Britt 12-11-06, 05:49 PM	Without TUs available, you can't join the org. I have errata typed up for those favors to address the metaorg structure. I'll see what I can do about the TU issue, no promises though.
Britt 12-17-06, 01:15 PM	www.bandit-kingdoms.net/meta/ARs/DrinkersMetaAR.pdf Consider this a public draft. In order to give you all time to break it and us time to fix it, the org goes live on Dec 31st. If you aren't playing on the 31st, you can do your paperwork early, but you can not derive any benefits from the org until the 31st. If the org gets updated, you'll need to get a new copy of the AR. So, take the next two weeks to try to break the org, please. I did several computations and it seemed highly unlikely we'd have many people qualifying for the top tiers. Casters and pure melee types will have a harder time getting to the top, but that's as intended. Lomiat: I can't do anything about the TU costs; that's a hard and fast rule and I can't grant exceptions. You'll have to wait until next year to join :( Here are the new versions of the favors from an undisclosed adventure: Midnight Cup Token: Your Affiliation Score with the Drinkers is never less than (5 minus any Enmity). A Proven Hero: Your Affiliation Score with the Drinkers is never less than (15 minus any Enmity). A Legendary Hero: Your Affiliation Score with the Drinkers is never less than (25 minus any Enmity).
Cynric 12-17-06, 04:59 PM	Just a quick thought. Are the bonuses granted by casting spells of certain levels cumalative? :confused:
Britt 12-17-06, 05:07 PM	Yes, that's why I phrased it how I did, to avoid confusion. Since they do not overlap, there shouldn't be an issue of whether they stack. If you can cast 3rd-4th, you can cast 1st-2nd as well.
Haro 12-17-06, 05:31 PM	That's excellent Britt, although it does seem quite an amount of info to cram onto an AR. Are there any plans for a document that goes with the AR, explaining the history and purpose of the Drinkers? This could also outline the item and spell access, without the need for brevity on the AR. For reference, I'm thinking of a watered down version of the Perrenland Fighting Forces document. Joe
Britt 12-17-06, 05:34 PM	No plans right now. Part of the problem with such a doc would be that it would be extremely short. Very little is known about the Drinkers backgrounds and possible ulterior motives. When I get a metaregional coordinator, I might have him/her look into that.
Gwumph 12-17-06, 05:39 PM	Hey Britt We had one of our newest players/GM run the IUZ module IUZ5-06 Spy Gnome. He said we completed the module succesfully and did everything that was required at the APL we played including succesfully completing a mission for the drinkers of a cup of midnight organization. But he never mentioned anything about affiliation points or influnce points. Did he miss something? Or does completing that module not give us access? Cheers Gwumph
Gwumph 12-17-06, 05:51 PM	Sorry Didn't realize there was a page 2. :) Still unclear on influence points.
Britt 12-17-06, 06:08 PM	Influence points are specifically listed on ARs. Affiliation Points are new, so none of your old ARs will list those. If there wasn't an IP listed on that AR, then you couldn't get one. Typically, an IP means you did something for someone and they 'owe you'. You can usually exchange them for things in the future, in this case, you could exchange them for Affiliation Points, if you wanted.
copper_wyrmling 12-17-06, 09:43 PM	Ooh, Limited spell access :) Is that a general difference between ordinary meta-orgs (which to my knowledge can't grant Limited spells - am I wrong on this?) and metaregional meta-orgs? The feat access looks very pretty too. However, it doesn't *seem* too breakable: neither of my high-level PCs (both casters) qualify for more than the first tier without spending influence points. To clarify, almost all of my Drinkers favors are listed as "Favor of the Drinkers" or "Thanks of the Drinkers" rather than "Influence Point with the Drinkers". These include favors with text like, "The Drinkers may offer you membership in their organization at some point in the future". Can those favors be traded in for affiliation points? (I'm guessing the answer is "No", but since I have nine or ten such favors and no "influence points", it's worth checking...)
Britt 12-17-06, 09:46 PM	I'll look into the alternately worded favors. Most likely, they can be traded in. Some may be worth more than 2 points, depending on what you did. On the spell access, someone else just pointed that out to me, so I have to look into it.
MatBlack 12-18-06, 01:50 PM	[url]Here are the new versions of the favors from an undisclosed adventure: Midnight Cup Token: Your Affiliation Score with the Drinkers is never less than (5 minus any Enmity). A Proven Hero: Your Affiliation Score with the Drinkers is never less than (15 minus any Enmity). A Legendary Hero: Your Affiliation Score with the Drinkers is never less than (25 minus any Enmity). i have received both of these favors. is there a way for these new versions to be listed somewhere official (a dispel confusion or something), or perhaps noted on the second page of the AR, for any GMs who may be unfamiliar with this organization or thread? other than that and the few things pointed out in other posts, everything looks pretty good. thanks for all the work!
Britt 12-18-06, 02:13 PM	Consider this official. If you want documentation, just print my post and take it with you. I won't have room to list all the errata to various favors on the AR and I don't have time to work on a larger metacampaign document that would list things like that, sorry.
_m_ 12-18-06, 05:57 PM	if we happened to live in perenalnd, and meet ye olde head of the drinkers, and get access and you know, all that jazz to become a drinker (which a number of us have been waiting for for zonks)... and then had our part of the counrty moved to RATIK...
Lomiat 12-18-06, 06:08 PM	Britt, Thanks for the reply. I'm not terribly worried about joining by the 31st as my wizard can craft any of the items he might ever want to purchase from the list with the favor. However, I am curious: Does the new adjustment to the Favors mean that the Affiliation score replaces the "time requirements" not only for the standard upkeep (on the right side of the AR) but also for the one-time costs? In other words, does a "Legendary Hero" have to pay 4 TUs and 400 gp to jump straight to Dohgai? Or (option 2) does he have to pay 5 TUs and 1200 gp (to pay the Dohgai upkeep as well as the one-time entry cost)? Or (option 3) does he have to pay 7 TUs and 2000 gp (to pay the Dohgai upkeep as well as the one-time entry cost for each Mandragora, Stryx, and Dohgai)? (Though, here, I didn't see anything that specifies a character has to move through the ranks instead of vaulting straight to the top.) Thanks again in advance.
Britt 12-18-06, 06:23 PM	You would have to pay the cumulative one-time costs and the yearly cost of the level you end-up at. This is the same as if you advanced in the middle of the year from tier two to tier three; you would pay the difference in yearly costs, not the total new yearly cost. You always pay the one-time cost though. So option 3, 7 TUs and 2000gp to go from nothing to Dohgai.
Haro 12-18-06, 07:01 PM	if we happened to live in perenalnd, and meet ye olde head of the drinkers, and get access and you know, all that jazz to become a drinker (which a number of us have been waiting for for zonks)... and then had our part of the counrty moved to RATIK... Well, then you have a problem with all the people who complained for five years Australian players were disadvantaged because they had to spend thousands of dollars to travel to another region to play. Then when they got one... ;) I hear Brisbane is beautiful this time of year! Joe
Britt 12-18-06, 07:04 PM	If you live in Ratik, have a home region of PER, and have played a mod in the IUZ metaregion, I'm pretty sure that meets all the prereqs. It doesn't require that you join after an IUZ mod or that you physically live in IUZ. They do care if your character does, though, as someone in Ratik isn't much use to their fight against Iuz.
_m_ 12-18-06, 07:25 PM	If you live in Ratik, have a home region of PER, and have played a mod in the IUZ metaregion, I'm pretty sure that meets all the prereqs. It doesn't require that you join after an IUZ mod or that you physically live in IUZ. They do care if your character does, though, as someone in Ratik isn't much use to their fight against Iuz. so if i started in perenland, but moved to ratik after joining, it all goes away. methinks me may have to stay in perenland.
clannagh 12-18-06, 08:10 PM	so if i started in perenland, but moved to ratik after joining, it all goes away. methinks me may have to stay in perenland. Let me see Alvin is on best bud's terms with Nerull Alvin for some unfathomable reason was made a Ritter of Perrenland Alvin is a gnome shadow mage and gnome vale in the Yatils has been recently almost swallowed by some funky shadow rift thing which Alvin surely is very very interested in. meanwhile .... Alvin's first expedition into Ratik had him arrested for fireballing a Knight of the Realm ........... seems to me Alvin would not be moving to Ratik anytime soon.
_m_ 12-18-06, 08:35 PM	Let me see Alvin is on best bud's terms with Nerull Alvin for some unfathomable reason was made a Ritter of Perrenland Alvin is a gnome shadow mage and gnome vale in the Yatils has been recently almost swallowed by some funky shadow rift thing which Alvin surely is very very interested in. meanwhile .... Alvin's first expedition into Ratik had him arrested for fireballing a Knight of the Realm ........... seems to me Alvin would not be moving to Ratik anytime soon. hey, thats not quite fair. avlin is a wiz geo shadowcaster master of shadow... not just a shadow mage :D the ritter was CLEARLY for alvins superiorintelect and general knightlyness... the rift, granted, looks like fun, tho was probably alvins fault... somehow... and alvin STILL maintains that the knight headbutted his fist.
Britt 12-18-06, 09:50 PM	The limited spells are definitely going to be removed and I'll probably be removing a couple of the PrCs as well, though I'm not sure which :/ LMK if you have suggestions on other non-item, non-limited spell, non-PrC things to offer casters...
_m_ 12-18-06, 10:14 PM	The limited spells are definitely going to be removed and I'll probably be removing a couple of the PrCs as well, though I'm not sure which :/ LMK if you have suggestions on other non-item, non-limited spell, non-PrC things to offer casters... well, im of two minds about it, since i worked so hard to be basiaclly the only one of my kind, but... shadowcaster?
Britt 12-18-06, 10:17 PM	AR updated and uploaded. New version is 1.1. Limited spells removed; feats, PrCs, and costs reduced. There might still be more tweaking in the next two weeks.
copper_wyrmling 12-18-06, 10:22 PM	The limited spells are definitely going to be removed and I'll probably be removing a couple of the PrCs as well, though I'm not sure which :/ LMK if you have suggestions on other non-item, non-limited spell, non-PrC things to offer casters... *kicks self for bringing up limited spells issue* :weep: (although Britt did say that somebody else had mentioned it, so I don't feel *too* guilty) Not sure how appropriate this would be for the Drinkers, but I've seen arcane meta-orgs offer spell-scribing access to wizards, so they can copy Core spells from outside the PHB into their spellbooks without needing to find scrolls on ARs. You could also offer bonuses on more caster-ish skills, maybe Knowledge skills pertinent to evil outsiders and undead?
Britt 12-18-06, 10:24 PM	I thought about the scribing thing, but the org isn't really focused on arcane stuff, they wouldn't have a central library, and I'd have to go through all the Core spells to pick which belong and squeeze them onto the AR :p The knowledge skills is a good idea; I've added that to my internal draft.
_m_ 12-18-06, 11:11 PM	some sort of bonus's to hide perhaps? :hides: i like hiding.
clannagh 12-18-06, 11:11 PM	you could offer more of the generic low level steathy stuff like elvencraft cloak and boots .. possibly the vosser cat items currently only accessible to perrenders maybe access to a variant "rogue oriented" animal companion with good hide ? access to the variant ranger from complete warrior .. access to any variant rogue levels if they exist are the drinkers likely to be affiliated with the temple raiders of olidimmara in any fashion ?
Lomiat 12-18-06, 11:17 PM	The limited spells are definitely going to be removed and I'll probably be removing a couple of the PrCs as well, though I'm not sure which :/ LMK if you have suggestions on other non-item, non-limited spell, non-PrC things to offer casters... Lomiat's wish list (not 100% realistic, but ya gotta try, right?): 1) Let familiar acquire a template. 2) Sudden Maximize Feat (from studying the spellbooks of a dead somebody). 3) Crafting access. Primarily for Craft Magic Arms and Armor, which has been a bummer of a feat for 99% of my character's career. The only really yummy item to which I found access (ghost touch wounding dagger; 1 rd/day can make all attacks as touch attacks) ingored the standard requirements for both the ghost touch and wounding abilities (each of which could be crafted by a wizard) and turned them into the "ghost touch weapon" spell, which is a non-PHB cleric only spell, therefore inaccessable to my character. (end minor rant) 4) Spellbook materials (fire-resistant, etc.) from Complete Arcane. 5) Forks attuned to various planes. 6) Access to rent or purchase a safe house (property).
Britt 12-18-06, 11:19 PM	I need to unbind backspace in my browser :( clannagh: I can't do most of those things in a MO. I looked at Temple Raider, but the overall flavor didn't really fit much, and I have too many PrCs as is :/
Britt 12-18-06, 11:21 PM	Lomiat: Can't do 1. Will NEVER give out 2. Can't do 3. Might be able to do 4 and 5; will look into it. Could do 6, but a fixed location is antithetical to the Drinkers.
JohnduBois 12-18-06, 11:38 PM	Lomiat: Can't do 1. Will NEVER give out 2. Can't do 3. Might be able to do 4 and 5; will look into it. Could do 6, but a fixed location is antithetical to the Drinkers. Note to self - kill Sudden Maximize access on regional ARs BEFORE submitting the mod to Britt. :D
Japangirl 12-18-06, 11:50 PM	*Crosses fingers* Leave in Mindbender leave in Mindbender leave in Mindbender . . . EDIT: YAY!!
copper_wyrmling 12-18-06, 11:52 PM	Lomiat: Can't do 1. Will NEVER give out 2. Can't do 3. Might be able to do 4 and 5; will look into it. Could do 6, but a fixed location is antithetical to the Drinkers. Mmmm, planar forks. Surely that nice demon lord Pazrael would have given his Drinker servants - oops, I mean allies - some way to travel to his layer of the Abyss? Btw, Britt, I know someone said this on the Living Greyhawk Yahoo group recently, but I think it bears repeating: THANK YOU for all the work you're doing at the moment! :) It's been fantastic to have a Circle member posting so regularly on the message boards and answering people's questions, and to see visible progress on stuff like this meta-org. (I am *not* criticising the rest of the Circle, I have some idea of how busy they are - but Britt really has been amazingly accessible and helpful over the last month or two.)
_m_ 12-19-06, 12:09 AM	Lomiat: Can't do 1. Will NEVER give out 2. Can't do 3. Might be able to do 4 and 5; will look into it. Could do 6, but a fixed location is antithetical to the Drinkers. no point doing 5. it hasnt ever, nor do i rekon it will ever, come up. could be wrong though.
copper_wyrmling 12-19-06, 12:16 AM	no point doing 5. it hasnt ever, nor do i rekon it will ever, come up. could be wrong though. What, planar forks? You can't see how having the means to travel to several different planes, or to send enemies there, can be useful? Did you mean (4), the special spellbook materials?
clannagh 12-19-06, 12:39 AM	Note to self - kill Sudden Maximize access on regional ARs BEFORE submitting the mod to Britt. :D there has been sudden maximise AR access in the past .. was just discussing it with m who has had it limited AR access is a bit different to wholesale metaorg access I suspect
Britt 12-19-06, 02:42 AM	I am flat-out against Sudden Metamagic feats, especially Sudden Maximize. Sudden Quicken is probably the only one I would ever consider giving access to. I gave access on an interactive AR in 2003 or 2004 and I have regretted it ever since, along with legion spells.
Britt 12-19-06, 02:42 AM	Mindbender isn't coming out. It and Spymaster are the two classes that are perfect for this org.
Maesto 12-19-06, 08:28 AM	Hmm...My highest two chars don't even qualify for tier 1 without spending favours, except for the "token" AR entry. One is an archmage (L15), and thanks to the LG alignment and charisma penalties, scrapes in with a +2 bonus. Spending every favour that he has will just get him into the second tier, I think. My 10th level archer has a negative affiliation score, so no go there. I have no idea what most of those items do, although I've never seen poison "given out" before. I don't have HB, so can't check that, but the rest of it looks rather suited towards rogue characters, and not much else. It's midnight here, so I'm not thinking straight and I don't know quite what would fit in here for other characters, but even the skill benefits help rogues and not much more. With regards to planar forks, they're cool to have, but you only need one to send somebody to another plane (or to have your own party escape to another plane). I've never seen one _needed_. Cheers, Jolyon
Japangirl 12-19-06, 03:33 PM	Heh, my bard is at the second level of the meta-org at level four. My 13 rogue is at the second level, possibly third because I'm not sure which favors count and which ones don't (Jaedric and Halon, favors of the Shade, anyone?). My 6 wizard has nothing to gain, but would probably be at the 1st or 2nd level of the metaorg. There's been a lot of drinkers missions lately. My rogue has planar forks for the Abyss and the planes of Water and Earth I believe. Just in case.
_m_ 12-19-06, 04:59 PM	What, planar forks? You can't see how having the means to travel to several different planes, or to send enemies there, can be useful? Did you mean (4), the special spellbook materials? yeah, i meant that one. my bad. and i lost sudden maximise btw. my wizard level got chewed :D
Sieylianna 12-19-06, 07:55 PM	Heh, my bard is at the second level of the meta-org at level four. My 13 rogue is at the second level, possibly third because I'm not sure which favors count and which ones don't (Jaedric and Halon, favors of the Shade, anyone?). My 6 wizard has nothing to gain, but would probably be at the 1st or 2nd level of the metaorg. There's been a lot of drinkers missions lately. My druid qualifies for the 2nd tier, but it would require a return to her Highfolk roots. She had switched to my primary Veluna character when my wizard retired at 18th, but was recently excommunicated by the church of Rao, so she's considering moving on. (There was also a massacre at a church in Veluna that she was partially blamed for). Ed
GenghisBob 12-20-06, 05:01 AM	My Rog qualifies for 1st level and 2nd level by killing a few favours... But he always tries to get all snugly with the Shade and ends up getting smacked around - im sure that might exclude him from the 2nd tier, so he may just start his own counter organisation via his and Azrien's chain of Casinos across Perrenland by opening them all across the flaness. He also has tried to make it with every female demon in the Iuz story line, and made deals with the male demons - except for the ones he had to kill or sap! I think my 5th level Bard, who has had a friendlier time with the shade and takes her duty to Perrenland a whole lot more seriously will most likely join. Why is it those of us in the Iuz metaregion are more likely to listen to what Vampires have to say, Ally with Demons and Hobgoblin tribes that worship Hextor and make deals with the "incredibly damned", then try and kill them? I guess on the over hand most of us charge phultuns on sight and smite with full power attack. Its a weird and wacky metaregion. "Welcome to my nightmare" ~ A Cooper.
JohnduBois 12-20-06, 01:33 PM	My warchanter qualifies to be 2nd tier, but there seems to be this invisible force immune to any kind of magic that prevents him from entering the Empire of Iuz... it's really weird and he's confused. (And yes, I may actually be roleplaying that character's inability to play regional/metaregional mods due to my Triad responsibilities that way :P )
Japangirl 12-20-06, 02:37 PM	That's because at least the Hextor-worshipping guys and the demons can do something for us. Same with the vampires. Pholtans, on the other hand . . . well, they're just annoying :D.
_m_ 12-20-06, 05:10 PM	That's because at least the Hextor-worshipping guys and the demons can do something for us. Same with the vampires. Pholtans, on the other hand . . . well, they're just annoying :D. what !? the pholtans are LUVLY people.
Japangirl 12-20-06, 05:15 PM	Well, the Pholtans have LUVLY stuff anyways . . .
qstor 02-11-07, 08:37 PM	Britt I know your busy with the LGCS, but could you repost the AR. It didn't load right when I tried to download it. thanks! Mike
Eric Anondson 02-12-07, 04:45 PM	I just tried downloading it right now from the link further up the thread and it came down just fine.
Eric Anondson 02-12-07, 05:02 PM	Any chance of further updating to the metaorg? When might it happen? Care for any suggestions (I had made some in a personal email to Britt a few weeks ago)?
Britt 02-12-07, 05:32 PM	Updates will probably be handled by Jeff, my new metarep.
JohnduBois 02-12-07, 09:14 PM	Updates will probably be handled by Jeff, my new metarep. Ahh... So it's Jeff's fault then. I completely understand.
qstor 02-13-07, 09:49 AM	I just tried downloading it right now from the link further up the thread and it came down just fine. maybe my version of IE and Firefox were wonky yesterday :) It worked now. Mike