Post/Author/DateTime	Post
control freak 08-15-07, 06:10 PM	duskblade is broken because you wouldnt take abjurant champion if you could :rolleyes: duskblade is broken ONLY in greyhawk in because of the format of the combats in mods (even in a 3 in 1 day mod...) that being said what feats aside from power attack and arcane strike and what general build would you take? how would you break it? but what if you could do that what would you do for it
_metz_ 08-15-07, 10:45 PM	This is probably for the character boards...
Hariman 08-15-07, 11:40 PM	Yeah. Plus there are a number of other Duskblade threads already on the character sub-board. And I don't think a Duskblade is any more broken than an optimized Unseen Seer TWFer. Or a Rogue14/Cleric1 TWFer. Or a barbarian/fighter/Beguiler/Dragon Disciple with Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec and Melee Weapon Mastery. It's definitely no worse that a Druid6/Beastmaster1. I had one of those in my Dominion table. That druid's bear did more damage than the dedicated Fighter/Barbarian TANK. Oh, and what was that cheesiest of all cheesy cleric classes? Radiant Servant, right? And, even at levels 10 to 15, a Duskblade starts losing ground against "True Gishes" like Spellswords, Bladesingers and even Eldritch Knights. Especially considering the higher level spells that true gishes get. Really now, the Duskblade has limitations that mean it'll be deciding whether to channel or just attack regularly. Or even just cast the spell instead of channeling it. Not to mention that Quick Casting is only 3/day at 15TH LEVEL. And a DBs channeling is limited to touch spells only. (NOT ranged touch, that's in the FAQ.) Sorry Control Freak, but "Duskblade is Broken" is a pet peeve of mine. And the same goes for "Warlock is Broken". Hariman PS: Abjurant Champion is a different issue. No arcanist would be without it. Duskblade isn't that appealing. It's just that at the low levels, Duskblade will easily cover both caster and tank roles. And at mid levels, the duskblade is still going strong, though not quite as strong. Melee and Archer builds start picking up in mid levels, thanks to the iterative attacks. PPS: Power Attack, Cleave, Arcane Strike, Weapon Finesse and possibly Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain. Oh, and Somatic Weaponry. It's a MUST.
Evanta 08-16-07, 04:11 AM	Duskblade is too disruptive and far too good at levels 1-6. Levels 7-9 are probably ok, though at levels 10 onwards, it still seems that duskblades are usually going to be the best tanks. (vampiric touch to do damage & heal)
Hariman 08-16-07, 03:00 PM	Duskblade is too disruptive and far too good at levels 1-6. Levels 7-9 are probably ok, though at levels 10 onwards, it still seems that duskblades are usually going to be the best tanks. (vampiric touch to do damage & heal) Y'know, honestly, I'm hoping that the Circle will either just open or close Duskblades and Dragon Shamans. That way we could stop having this irritating limbo of both being NONC. And what is so wrong about a class that is strong in the lower levels? There are plenty of other classes that are either too weak at those low levels. (Multiclass "Horizon" builds that hit their peak after level 8.) Not to mention that clerics and druids are at least as good as Duskblades at lower levels. Really, I see the Duskblade as the Arcane Equivalent of Cleric. Just with better damage potential and less healing.
Evanta 08-16-07, 11:27 PM	All these ain't matter no more, 4th Ed is coming out...
tilloch 08-16-07, 11:35 PM	They can't really close Duskblade since I hear tell that some people may have access from Shadows of the Dread Spiral at Gen Con last year.
_metz_ 08-16-07, 11:57 PM	They can't really close Duskblade since I hear tell that some people may have access from Shadows of the Dread Spiral at Gen Con last year. Um, no. It was a different thing that access was given to, and only because it correlated with greyhawk Canon. I know because I got that access. And frankly I am GLAD that there aren't Warlocks and Duskblades wandering about in LG. (especially warlocks) I think the way the circle has handled duiskblades is good, for me its not about playing the best class, if you want a fighter with magic, make an Eldritch Knight and stop whinging!
Hariman 08-17-07, 01:35 AM	All these ain't matter no more, 4th Ed is coming out... But for all we know, 4.0 might not be too drastic a change, and certain recent books like the PHB2 and the MIC might be fully compatible. It might just be that WOTC wants to get certain rules listed as "Core" and in the SRD because they represent a major shift in certain parts of D&D. Like Item Crafting and Polymorph. Not to mention the FAQ issues and Errata'd issues. _Metz_: OK, two questions: 1: Why is leaving the Duskblade in limbo good? I find it immensely frustrating that the Duskblade is a massive question mark and would have rather seen it closed completely than left in NONC limbo. The NONC status has also affected one Triad's stance on Duskblade. The Keoland Triad and the Keoland Special Missions coordinator have stated that the circle will have to choose to grant access or deny access to duskblade as they see fit. (Denied, oh well.) Which is a real pain, because I'd like to play what I consider a cool, if rather frontloaded, class. Plus, not all of us want the hassle of playing a multiclassed Paladin/Sorcerer/Spellsword/Eldritch Knight. I know I don't want to play a multiclass character like that for a while. One rogue/wizard is enough multiclassing for right now. 2: What is so bad about warlocks? The only things that I can see that are that bad are UMD/Crafting issues. And Warlocks don't get crafting until level 12, so that's not a huge problem. Plus, being able to UMD items is a disadvantage in LG, as any gold expenditure is permanent.
clik_ml 08-17-07, 01:45 AM	I know because I got that access. And frankly I am GLAD that there aren't Warlocks and Duskblades wandering about in LG. (especially warlocks) There are some Duskblades wandering though. Not from level 1 that I know of, but I have met people with access and intending to use it. A warlock antagonist has been featured as a NPC in at least a couple mods in my home region as well. Cheers.
GeorgeFHarris 08-17-07, 10:02 AM	Um, no. It was a different thing that access was given to, and only because it correlated with greyhawk Canon. I know because I got that access. And frankly I am GLAD that there aren't Warlocks and Duskblades wandering about in LG. (especially warlocks) I think the way the circle has handled duiskblades is good, for me its not about playing the best class, if you want a fighter with magic, make an Eldritch Knight and stop whinging! While other accesses were given in that module (some kind of Shadow caster), Duskblade access (as well as darkrunner, and something else) were also given in that module. The access was given on a cert, and you had to get past a certain point (or finish) in the module to get it. I have the cert, and if you really want me to, I can type up the exact wording sometime this weekend. I'm thinking about taking a dwarven duskblade cohort for my RSoE. GH
_metz_ 08-17-07, 12:19 PM	While other accesses were given in that module (some kind of Shadow caster), Duskblade access (as well as darkrunner, and something else) were also given in that module. The access was given on a cert, and you had to get past a certain point (or finish) in the module to get it. I have the cert, and if you really want me to, I can type up the exact wording sometime this weekend. I'm thinking about taking a dwarven duskblade cohort for my RSoE. GH Wow, we finished the module, I am very surprised... Well there you go, you learn something new everyday.
Hariman 08-17-07, 03:46 PM	While other accesses were given in that module (some kind of Shadow caster), Duskblade access (as well as darkrunner, and something else) were also given in that module. The access was given on a cert, and you had to get past a certain point (or finish) in the module to get it. I have the cert, and if you really want me to, I can type up the exact wording sometime this weekend. I'm thinking about taking a dwarven duskblade cohort for my RSoE. GH As long as it's not a spoiler and won't get you in trouble, I'd like to know what that access was. I just wish the Circle would make a definite decision on Duskblade. And Metz, why don't you like Warlocks?
_metz_ 08-19-07, 08:52 AM	And Metz, why don't you like Warlocks? There are too many ways to exploit them.
Hariman 08-20-07, 12:15 AM	There are too many ways to exploit them. OK, I know the typical "Crank UMD to the moon and craft, craft, craft!" method. And I had a Warlock in a Home Campaign that would have used Maximize Spell Like Ability to force Massive Damage Saves a few times at higher levels. Not to mention taking Empower SLA and Quicken SLA to increase damage output. And, of course, there's the "Spend a fortune buying scrolls and wands and rods to UMD!" Warlock. (Which is pretty good, if you can manage to not spend your character into a hole.) But how does that compare to the ways you can exploit a wizard with scribe scrolls, or a cleric with domains and divine casting, or a Druid? Not to mention what a FIGHTER can to with 6 feats at level 12 (Power Attack, Weapon Focus/Specialization/Mastery, Greater Weapon Focus and Specialization.) Not to mention a barbarian beatstick, or a rogue. Hell, a SORCERER can do much of what a warlock does. Especially with a reserve feat. A good Duskblade will also outclass a Warlock too. What, specifically, don't you like about Warlocks? Which exact class feature or set of class features are the biggest problem/problems? PM me if you must, but give me some specifics beyond "exploitable". ALL CLASSES ARE EXPLOITABLE, EVEN WEAK ONES LIKE HEXBLADE!
_metz_ 08-20-07, 03:58 AM	Doesn't really matter now does it? If Warlocks exist in 4th edition you will undoubtedly get to play one. I see no need in arguing over a redundant system, for access in a campaign that is to be concluded without another LGCS.