elemental savant access [Archive] - Wizards Community

elemental savant access [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jfh33
04-18-05, 12:15 PM Can someone clarify the finer points of access to the Elemental Savant prestige class?

Based on the requirements in the LGCS, my character must have peaceful access with an elemental, or some creature with an elemental subtype, (or the approval of a triad member.) This prestige class is listed as core, and one would make me think that it should be easier rather than harder to gain access to.

I have access to the prestige class via a mod I played recently, but have been advised by my triad that I am only eligible for the element shared by the creature my character had peaceful contact with. This essentially means that I still don't have access based on the fact that I now don't have the correct feat.

I can't remember the name, but this feat is the one where you switch out the elemental type in evocation spells. For instance, my sorcerer turns fireballs into lightening balls. Unfortunately, the elemental with which I had contact with was Earth, not Air.

While I understand the reasoning behind this, the LGCS does not state that this is a requirement. My triad recommended that I check errata and email the FAQ, or maybe contact someone from the Circle, but I am not sure which errata or FAQ he is talking about, and I have no idea how to contact a Circle person, so I figured I'd start here.

Basically, I just want my sorcerer to be an Elemental Savant of Air. This is especially frustrating as there is no way to go through my past AR's to verify peaceful contact with the correct elemental type, since I could not have anticipated what was going to happen when the supplemental books started being published.

Had I known about this prestige class when my sorcerer was first level, I would have built him and played him to insure access (taking the Auran (sp?) language, and begging every air elemental creature I see not to kill me). Since my region doesn't offer access via a meta-org, I am not sure what to do now, except cross my fingers.

Help!

jack
King Kashue
04-18-05, 01:44 PM I have access to the prestige class via a mod I played recently, but have been advised by my triad that I am only eligible for the element shared by the creature my character had peaceful contact with. This essentially means that I still don't have access based on the fact that I now don't have the correct feat.

I can't remember the name, but this feat is the one where you switch out the elemental type in evocation spells. For instance, my sorcerer turns fireballs into lightening balls. Unfortunately, the elemental with which I had contact with was Earth, not Air.

While I understand the reasoning behind this, the LGCS does not state that this is a requirement. My triad recommended that I check errata and email the FAQ, or maybe contact someone from the Circle, but I am not sure which errata or FAQ he is talking about, and I have no idea how to contact a Circle person, so I figured I'd start here.

If the adventure has specifically stated access (not "noted by the DM", but actually lists the access on the AR) and it doesn't restrict you to only one element, then you are correct, your triad is wrong. (blunt, but oh well) :D

The LGCS states "This Contact (referring to the contact required by the Complete Arcane) must be specifically listed in an adventure to count OR gained through your local triad"

The Complete Arcane says "Must have made peaceful contact with an elemental or outsider that has an elemental subtype"

There is nothing that says you have to be of the subtype you met...Since it is core access, all you have to do is meet the requirements in the Compete Arcane which you have (with the special requirement having been met by the manner prescribed by the LGCS)...

As long as your adventure specifically lists that contact as a result of the module (not recorded on the AR by the DM, but the adventure lists it), and the entry doesn't specifically limit the access (e.g., it says "through this contact the PC qualifies for the elemental savant prestige class", not "qualifies for the elemental savant (earth) prestige class"), then you're set...The triad doesn't even enter into it...
jfh33
04-18-05, 02:49 PM The contact in this mod is not originally printed on the sheet, though the DM did make a note of it on the AR when he signed mine. In fact, the only way I was able to verify that there was non-summoned, peaceful contact was by quoting passages from the mod itself. I would be happy to repost those passages here, but I don't know if I should be advertising spoiler information like that.

I will say that in one part of that text, it specifies "the native [creature with an elemental subtype of earth]..." (I removed the reference to the actual name of the creatures). In the mod, not only did my character have peace contact, we actually helped save them.

The triad made the point that this particular mod has a time limit, (we needed to help the creatures and then leave their plane of existence before a certain period of time had elapsed,) so my character may not have had the time to train with the elemental creature.

I would argue that a blessing can be bestowed in a few seconds, and nothing specific is mentioned in either source (LGCS or Complete Arcane) about training or contact duration.

The only other concern I have is 'hearing it from the horses mouth.' While I appreciate your answer King Kashue, I recognize the fact that I don't know who you are, so when a DM asks me how I came to my conclusion on satisfying requirements, I can't just say 'some guy on the wizards board said it was okay,' (though I wish I could. It would be so much easier.)

Are the waters clearer, or have I muddied them?

jack
King Kashue
04-18-05, 07:24 PM The contact in this mod is not originally printed on the sheet, though the DM did make a note of it on the AR when he signed mine. In fact, the only way I was able to verify that there was non-summoned, peaceful contact was by quoting passages from the mod itself. I would be happy to repost those passages here, but I don't know if I should be advertising spoiler information like that.

Are the waters clearer, or have I muddied them?

A bit, but I don't think the tide is turning in your favor...

The LGCS text for the requirements of the Elemental Savant is identical to that in the description of the Alienist..."This Contact must be specifically listed in an adventure to count OR gained through your local triad"

The problem with that is twofold...

One, where DM notations are acceptable, they say so (Look at the requirements for the Seeker of the Misty Isle, it draws a distinction between being listed in an adventure or being noted by the DM)...Nothing in the Elemental Savant requirements says the DM notation is acceptable...

And two, I know for certain that there are modules that specificially grant Alienist Access as part of the adventure...It says on the AR "Encounter with the CREATURE NAME: This PC has encountered a INSERT CREATURE HERE and met the special requirement for the Alienist prestige class"...Printed as a consequence, part of the adventure for everyone, not a DM notation...

Though I'm not positive, this is most likely what the LGCS is referring to when it says "specifically listed in an adventure" (as opposed to a DM notation on an AR)...This is what you (and likely many others) needs Circle clarification on, the meaning of that phrase in the LGCS...

Since the Triad says you can take the class, what you've been able to garner for your self is the essentially "gained through your local Triad" part, and my guess is that they can put whatever restrictions on that access that they want...If I'm right, bummer... :(

Since your feats were taken under the previous incarnation of the class, you could ask the triad to allow you to change the energy substitution over to acid and the Auran language to Terran...They might be cool with that, though you may not be (since it does change your character concept)...

Hope it works out well for you...
gizmonster
04-21-05, 02:47 PM A bit, but I don't think the tide is turning in your favor...

The LGCS text for the requirements of the Elemental Savant is identical to that in the description of the Alienist..."This Contact must be specifically listed in an adventure to count OR gained through your local triad"

The problem with that is twofold...

One, where DM notations are acceptable, they say so (Look at the requirements for the Seeker of the Misty Isle, it draws a distinction between being listed in an adventure or being noted by the DM)...Nothing in the Elemental Savant requirements says the DM notation is acceptable...

And two, I know for certain that there are modules that specificially grant Alienist Access as part of the adventure...It says on the AR "Encounter with the CREATURE NAME: This PC has encountered a INSERT CREATURE HERE and met the special requirement for the Alienist prestige class"...Printed as a consequence, part of the adventure for everyone, not a DM notation...

...

I have a question about it. I have an AR where it specifically says I have helped a particular elemental, and in fact this elemental owes me a favor for which I may call on him later. Would that in fact qualify me for the prestige class even though it doesn't specifically say that it qualifies me on the AR?
TimRat
04-21-05, 04:10 PM if the favor is not specifically labeled out (like what the elemental gives you) then you could ask your triad that you would like the elemental to make peaceful contact with you fulfilling the requirement.

but if the favor has like lists of items already then i dont see that happening.

so shoot them an email and see what they say.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jfh33 04-18-05, 12:15 PM	Can someone clarify the finer points of access to the Elemental Savant prestige class? Based on the requirements in the LGCS, my character must have peaceful access with an elemental, or some creature with an elemental subtype, (or the approval of a triad member.) This prestige class is listed as core, and one would make me think that it should be easier rather than harder to gain access to. I have access to the prestige class via a mod I played recently, but have been advised by my triad that I am only eligible for the element shared by the creature my character had peaceful contact with. This essentially means that I still don't have access based on the fact that I now don't have the correct feat. I can't remember the name, but this feat is the one where you switch out the elemental type in evocation spells. For instance, my sorcerer turns fireballs into lightening balls. Unfortunately, the elemental with which I had contact with was Earth, not Air. While I understand the reasoning behind this, the LGCS does not state that this is a requirement. My triad recommended that I check errata and email the FAQ, or maybe contact someone from the Circle, but I am not sure which errata or FAQ he is talking about, and I have no idea how to contact a Circle person, so I figured I'd start here. Basically, I just want my sorcerer to be an Elemental Savant of Air. This is especially frustrating as there is no way to go through my past AR's to verify peaceful contact with the correct elemental type, since I could not have anticipated what was going to happen when the supplemental books started being published. Had I known about this prestige class when my sorcerer was first level, I would have built him and played him to insure access (taking the Auran (sp?) language, and begging every air elemental creature I see not to kill me). Since my region doesn't offer access via a meta-org, I am not sure what to do now, except cross my fingers. Help! jack
King Kashue 04-18-05, 01:44 PM	I have access to the prestige class via a mod I played recently, but have been advised by my triad that I am only eligible for the element shared by the creature my character had peaceful contact with. This essentially means that I still don't have access based on the fact that I now don't have the correct feat. I can't remember the name, but this feat is the one where you switch out the elemental type in evocation spells. For instance, my sorcerer turns fireballs into lightening balls. Unfortunately, the elemental with which I had contact with was Earth, not Air. While I understand the reasoning behind this, the LGCS does not state that this is a requirement. My triad recommended that I check errata and email the FAQ, or maybe contact someone from the Circle, but I am not sure which errata or FAQ he is talking about, and I have no idea how to contact a Circle person, so I figured I'd start here. If the adventure has specifically stated access (not "noted by the DM", but actually lists the access on the AR) and it doesn't restrict you to only one element, then you are correct, your triad is wrong. (blunt, but oh well) :D The LGCS states "This Contact (referring to the contact required by the Complete Arcane) must be specifically listed in an adventure to count OR gained through your local triad" The Complete Arcane says "Must have made peaceful contact with an elemental or outsider that has an elemental subtype" There is nothing that says you have to be of the subtype you met...Since it is core access, all you have to do is meet the requirements in the Compete Arcane which you have (with the special requirement having been met by the manner prescribed by the LGCS)... As long as your adventure specifically lists that contact as a result of the module (not recorded on the AR by the DM, but the adventure lists it), and the entry doesn't specifically limit the access (e.g., it says "through this contact the PC qualifies for the elemental savant prestige class", not "qualifies for the elemental savant (earth) prestige class"), then you're set...The triad doesn't even enter into it...
jfh33 04-18-05, 02:49 PM	The contact in this mod is not originally printed on the sheet, though the DM did make a note of it on the AR when he signed mine. In fact, the only way I was able to verify that there was non-summoned, peaceful contact was by quoting passages from the mod itself. I would be happy to repost those passages here, but I don't know if I should be advertising spoiler information like that. I will say that in one part of that text, it specifies "the native [creature with an elemental subtype of earth]..." (I removed the reference to the actual name of the creatures). In the mod, not only did my character have peace contact, we actually helped save them. The triad made the point that this particular mod has a time limit, (we needed to help the creatures and then leave their plane of existence before a certain period of time had elapsed,) so my character may not have had the time to train with the elemental creature. I would argue that a blessing can be bestowed in a few seconds, and nothing specific is mentioned in either source (LGCS or Complete Arcane) about training or contact duration. The only other concern I have is 'hearing it from the horses mouth.' While I appreciate your answer King Kashue, I recognize the fact that I don't know who you are, so when a DM asks me how I came to my conclusion on satisfying requirements, I can't just say 'some guy on the wizards board said it was okay,' (though I wish I could. It would be so much easier.) Are the waters clearer, or have I muddied them? jack
King Kashue 04-18-05, 07:24 PM	The contact in this mod is not originally printed on the sheet, though the DM did make a note of it on the AR when he signed mine. In fact, the only way I was able to verify that there was non-summoned, peaceful contact was by quoting passages from the mod itself. I would be happy to repost those passages here, but I don't know if I should be advertising spoiler information like that. Are the waters clearer, or have I muddied them? A bit, but I don't think the tide is turning in your favor... The LGCS text for the requirements of the Elemental Savant is identical to that in the description of the Alienist..."This Contact must be specifically listed in an adventure to count OR gained through your local triad" The problem with that is twofold... One, where DM notations are acceptable, they say so (Look at the requirements for the Seeker of the Misty Isle, it draws a distinction between being listed in an adventure or being noted by the DM)...Nothing in the Elemental Savant requirements says the DM notation is acceptable... And two, I know for certain that there are modules that specificially grant Alienist Access as part of the adventure...It says on the AR "Encounter with the CREATURE NAME: This PC has encountered a INSERT CREATURE HERE and met the special requirement for the Alienist prestige class"...Printed as a consequence, part of the adventure for everyone, not a DM notation... Though I'm not positive, this is most likely what the LGCS is referring to when it says "specifically listed in an adventure" (as opposed to a DM notation on an AR)...This is what you (and likely many others) needs Circle clarification on, the meaning of that phrase in the LGCS... Since the Triad says you can take the class, what you've been able to garner for your self is the essentially "gained through your local Triad" part, and my guess is that they can put whatever restrictions on that access that they want...If I'm right, bummer... :( Since your feats were taken under the previous incarnation of the class, you could ask the triad to allow you to change the energy substitution over to acid and the Auran language to Terran...They might be cool with that, though you may not be (since it does change your character concept)... Hope it works out well for you...
gizmonster 04-21-05, 02:47 PM	A bit, but I don't think the tide is turning in your favor... The LGCS text for the requirements of the Elemental Savant is identical to that in the description of the Alienist..."This Contact must be specifically listed in an adventure to count OR gained through your local triad" The problem with that is twofold... One, where DM notations are acceptable, they say so (Look at the requirements for the Seeker of the Misty Isle, it draws a distinction between being listed in an adventure or being noted by the DM)...Nothing in the Elemental Savant requirements says the DM notation is acceptable... And two, I know for certain that there are modules that specificially grant Alienist Access as part of the adventure...It says on the AR "Encounter with the CREATURE NAME: This PC has encountered a INSERT CREATURE HERE and met the special requirement for the Alienist prestige class"...Printed as a consequence, part of the adventure for everyone, not a DM notation... ... I have a question about it. I have an AR where it specifically says I have helped a particular elemental, and in fact this elemental owes me a favor for which I may call on him later. Would that in fact qualify me for the prestige class even though it doesn't specifically say that it qualifies me on the AR?
TimRat 04-21-05, 04:10 PM	if the favor is not specifically labeled out (like what the elemental gives you) then you could ask your triad that you would like the elemental to make peaceful contact with you fulfilling the requirement. but if the favor has like lists of items already then i dont see that happening. so shoot them an email and see what they say.