Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paul H 02-12-06, 09:24 PM	Hi Is anyone running a Monk/Warmage variant of Enlightened Fist? What do they think of it? Better BAB, HP, Saves etc. 1 lvl Monk. then 6 lvls Warmage, then Enlightened Fist. Thinking of it myself, but wanted to see if idea works. (The idea of Monk moving into combat, just dodging blows with the Ring of Blades spell running is somewhat appealing.......) (That's D6+6+CL damage)! Cheers Paul H
haferka 02-12-06, 09:54 PM	Personally, I dont think its worth it. I like having the versatily of a Mnk2/Wiz3 then going Enlightened Fist... I get personall buffs, (IE Fist of Stone), which are cool, as well as defensive buffs. Backbiter is also a really nice spell (since its update in the spell compendium).
Mommy was an Orc 02-12-06, 10:10 PM	Hi Is anyone running a Monk/Warmage variant of Enlightened Fist? What do they think of it? Better BAB, HP, Saves etc. 1 lvl Monk. then 6 lvls Warmage, then Enlightened Fist. Paul H General problem is that you're a Warmage down 2 and eventually 3 levels. Ascetic Mage, while it does great things for your unarmored AC, doesn't make your Monk damage stack - and you can wear armor, so the advantage isn't that big. My favorite is Monk 2/Sorcerer 1/Paladin 2/Enlightened Fist 10.
smerwin29 02-13-06, 09:39 AM	I thought you have to be a 3rd level arcane caster to take the EF prestige class . . . Shawn
haferka 02-13-06, 10:44 AM	its not in front of me... but I believe the exact requirement is "arcane caster level 5"
Objulen 02-13-06, 11:09 AM	its not in front of me... but I believe the exact requirement is "arcane caster level 5" To become an enlightened fist, you must, among other requirements, have an arcane caster level of 3.
Mommy was an Orc 02-13-06, 12:09 PM	To become an enlightened fist, you must, among other requirements, have an arcane caster level of 3. Which is provided by taking Practiced Spellcaster at level 3.
Objulen 02-13-06, 09:29 PM	Which is provided by taking Practiced Spellcaster at level 3. That would fulfill the requirements, as long as you had at least one level in wizard or sorcerer.
Mommy was an Orc 02-13-06, 10:05 PM	That would fulfill the requirements, as long as you had at least one level in wizard or sorcerer. Yup, the build's pretty tricky in the skill points area - Monk 2 to start off, Sorcerer 1 at level 3, so you need to have likely cross-classed Spellcraft in the 2 Monk levels to get it to 4 by level 3. Then Paladin 2. An 8 Int Human just makes it, I think with 1 skill point left. You're not a powerhouse Sorcerer by any means, but there's decent synergy, ability to wear armor until Ascetic Mage, phenomenal saves, etc...
Objulen 02-14-06, 09:43 AM	Yup, the build's pretty tricky in the skill points area - Monk 2 to start off, Sorcerer 1 at level 3, so you need to have likely cross-classed Spellcraft in the 2 Monk levels to get it to 4 by level 3. Then Paladin 2. An 8 Int Human just makes it, I think with 1 skill point left. You're not a powerhouse Sorcerer by any means, but there's decent synergy, ability to wear armor until Ascetic Mage, phenomenal saves, etc... I don't think you'd need Ascetic Mage, as long as you took a level in the Enlightened Fist PrC. I don't have my CA with me ATM, but I do believe that it removes the multiclassing restrictions for monk and the arcane class you took to become an Enlightened Fist, so you'd only need the feat for a paladin/monk character.
Iswald 02-14-06, 11:09 AM	With respect to multiclassing, enlightened fists can freely multiclass between monk and arcane casting classes. Ascetic mage will let the character's sorceror levels count for AC. Also, you can use your charisma for AC instead of wisdom, which is probably lower. I don't think ascetic mage will help with warmages or bards. It seems the feat is only for sorcerors.
Objulen 02-14-06, 12:23 PM	With respect to multiclassing, enlightened fists can freely multiclass between monk and arcane casting classes. Ascetic mage will let the character's sorceror levels count for AC. Also, you can use your charisma for AC instead of wisdom, which is probably lower. I don't think ascetic mage will help with warmages or bards. It seems the feat is only for sorcerors. *Flips open CV* "I see", said the blind man. Ascetic mage works with any class that casts spontanous arcane spells (the prerequisite is to be able to cast 2nd level arcane spells, specifically).
Iswald 02-14-06, 01:05 PM	*Flips open CV* "I see", said the blind man. Ascetic mage works with any class that casts spontanous arcane spells (the prerequisite is to be able to cast 2nd level arcane spells, specifically). How many times does it say bard, warmage or such vs sorceror?
Objulen 02-14-06, 01:11 PM	How many times does it say bard, warmage or such vs sorceror? Not once, but the benefits outside of extra AC would still apply as long as you were an enlightened fist.
Iswald 02-14-06, 09:56 PM	The first paragraph seems to be open to anyone who takes the feat. The second two are just for sorcerors, in my opinion.
Objulen 02-14-06, 10:09 PM	The first paragraph seems to be open to anyone who takes the feat. The second two are just for sorcerors, in my opinion. From the plain meaning of the text, a non-sorc gains the swift action spell slot sacrifice to gain increase unarmed damage and the benefit of adding charisma instead of wisdom to AC. It specifically states in the second paragraph that "If you have levels in sorcerer and monk, those levels stack for the purposes of determining your AC bonus." The latter portion says, "If you would normally be allowed to add your Wisdom score to your AC ... you instead add your Charisma bonus (if any) to your AC." The latter doesn't mention sorcerer at all, just that you change your AC bonus to CHA from WIS. The final part is the real problem with trying to take this as a bard or warmage, since you can't multiclass between either of those and monk with the feat, but since the Enlightened Fist PrC does the same thing, it allows a degree of synergy between the two. Since any monk/arcane caster worth their salt is going to be using this PrC in all likelyhood, the only people who would take the feat but not the PrC are level-dippers who won't miss monk progression anyway.
Reylance 02-15-06, 10:36 AM	I had thought that you needed to be a 3rd level sorcerer/warmage/wizard/bard to qualify for Enlightened Fist, but you're right, Practiced Spellcaster should work for that. Thus, the Enlightened Fist build I came up with was Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3 into Enlightened Fist, functioning as a light fighter in mithral chain shirt until 9th level, where one would take Ascetic Mage. The Mnk2/Sor1/Pal2/Enlightened Fist10 build would work nicely. As for the original question, I wouldn't recommend warmage for enlightened fist. You want defensive spells like mage armor, shield, and alter self. In addition, warmage has level-dependent bonus feats, so warmages should stick to that class.
Reylance 02-15-06, 10:44 AM	I had thought that you needed to be a 3rd level sorcerer/warmage/wizard/bard to qualify for Enlightened Fist, but you're right, Practiced Spellcaster should work for that. Thus, the Enlightened Fist build I came up with was Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3 into Enlightened Fist, functioning as a light fighter in mithral chain shirt until 9th level, where one would take Ascetic Mage. The Mnk2/Sor1/Pal2/Enlightened Fist10 build would work nicely. As for the original question, I wouldn't recommend warmage for enlightened fist. You want defensive spells like mage armor, shield, and alter self. In addition, warmage has level-dependent bonus feats, so warmages should stick to that class.
viceregal 02-16-06, 10:22 PM	I had thought that you needed to be a 3rd level sorcerer/warmage/wizard/bard to qualify for Enlightened Fist, but you're right, Practiced Spellcaster should work for that. Thus, the Enlightened Fist build I came up with was Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3 into Enlightened Fist, functioning as a light fighter in mithral chain shirt until 9th level, where one would take Ascetic Mage. The Mnk2/Sor1/Pal2/Enlightened Fist10 build would work nicely. As for the original question, I wouldn't recommend warmage for enlightened fist. You want defensive spells like mage armor, shield, and alter self. In addition, warmage has level-dependent bonus feats, so warmages should stick to that class. An earlier poster stated that you needed to be able to cast 2nd level arcance spells - practiced spellcaster will let you cast your 0 and 1st level Sor 1 spells as a 5th level caster ... it does not give you access to second level arcane spells! ie the Mnk2/Sor1/Pal2/Enlightened Fist10 build would *not* work nicely! The Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3 would be fine though! Warren [player of Monk2/Sor3/Enlightened Fist6 and *really* looking forward to next level!]
Objulen 02-16-06, 10:42 PM	To qualify as an enlightened fist, one must have an arcane caster level of 3.
Mommy was an Orc 02-16-06, 10:56 PM	Sorcerer 3 doesn't give access to second level arcane spells either... The only requirement is being of caster level 3. An earlier poster stated that you needed to be able to cast 2nd level arcance spells - practiced spellcaster will let you cast your 0 and 1st level Sor 1 spells as a 5th level caster ... it does not give you access to second level arcane spells! ie the Mnk2/Sor1/Pal2/Enlightened Fist10 build would *not* work nicely! The Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3 would be fine though! Warren [player of Monk2/Sor3/Enlightened Fist6 and *really* looking forward to next level!]