Fun things to do when playing down [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fun things to do when playing down [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
draxynnic
07-08-07, 09:46 AM This thread is inspired, in part, from the statement in the "Non-core base classes" thread in the Characters forum, where someone stated how fighters without weapons tended to be in trouble... and I thought "Well, Trassin seemed to be able to handle himself pretty well... and he doesn't even have Imp. Unarmed Attack."

To give a bit of background - A common reason I've heard for people not wanting to play down is that they feel that their character, if played down, would end up either dominating the entire module (well, the combat portions of it, anyway) or sitting back and not doing anything to give the other players a go unless things went pear-shaped. Most commonly this comes from fighter-types and arcanists, and to give them their due, it can, depending on the mod in question, be true.

This got me thinking. My primary character is a bard, which kinda scuttles that possibility - bards as a rule don't break combats, they help other people break combats. My secondary, however, is a pure-classed fighter - not a powerattacking monstrosity like the people who make those claims are usually packing, but loaded with tricks like Imp. Disarm and Trip for quickly incapacitating a humanoid target. Due to this, the thought struck me early on that if he was ever in a no-weapons event and someone smuggled weapons in, chances are he wouldn't remain unarmed for long.

Combining these thoughts, I set myself a challenge - if, for whatever reason, I was ever forced to play down out of APL with Trassin for whatever reason, he wouldn't draw a weapon unless it seemed likely that someone would die otherwise. Instead, he'd rely on stealing his opponent's weapons and wielding them against their owners, or if the enemy didn't have a weapon, pummeling them with spiked gauntlets (for the record, not his primary, or even secondary or tertiary, choice of weapon). This way, I'd be able to participate, but at reduced risk of being the one who does everything.

Eventually it happened, I explained what I was doing to the other players, none of them objected, and as it turned out the module was full of humanoids. I'm not going to go into details because the module is still current, but we basically ended up turning a serious module almost into a comedy mod, from the halfling fighter (also playing down, but only two levels instead of three) trying to emulate him to an epic wrestling match with the leader of the final encounter over posession of his weapon. Overall, it was possibly one of the most memorable games I've played.

So, to move onto the point of the thread after giving this story: Does anyone else have any similar 'contingency plans' - or even just a funny idea - for handicapping one or more of their characters if they're forced to play down by a significant margin? And if you've ever invoked them, how did things go?
UMiskatonic
07-08-07, 11:08 AM I try not to go with the 'show stopping' moves if I'm playing significantly down, unless of course it's become an emergency.

My cleric will back of on direct damage spells and things like divine power, and throw in support spells like stalwart pact and recitation.

My paladin will generally full attack, instead of spirted charging, and I don't always have the special mount attack.

My wizard will do more battlefield control, maybe the low-level fighter feels better about things when the giant is stuck in a web and blind.
UMiskatonic
07-08-07, 11:09 AM I will also lend out gear, like spare magic weapons, vests of resistance, the occassional scroll, so that everyone has something to do with their time.
CdrcJsn
07-08-07, 05:17 PM My now retired cleric of Zagyg once memorized Spiritual Weapon as his only offensive spell. I think it was around level 14 or 15 when he did it.

Quickened Spiritual Weapon (via feat)
Empowered Spiritual Weapon (via rod)
Extended Spiritual Weapon (via rod)
regular Spiritual Weapon

It got ridiculous pretty fast and was surprisingly extremely effective.

He also had a habit of relying on his Rod of Wonder when fights are well in hand.
Hariman
07-09-07, 12:00 AM Unfortunately for me, my rogue wizard feels at home playing down. So he preps his usual array of blasting/control spells. (Lesser Orbs, Grease and Glitterdust one or two others.)

He really shines if he can blast a blind enemy with his orbs, as sneak attack really does provide a boost right now.
solbergb
07-09-07, 12:49 PM When I'm playing down I usually focus on more setup stuff and less "drop the hammer" stuff.

My monk does more trips and grapples and less all-out attacks, the sorceress does more battlefield control and less direct damage...my warchanter and favored soul are support characters anyway so it doesn't come up much. Any of my characters that can buff do buff the snot out of the lower level characters.

With my archer, there isn't much I can do along those lines, but my other characters can usually adjust their style to give more airtime to others. Actually...my archer is far more likely to be a "point scout" when playing down, which means he's exposed to enemy attacks and may sometimes spend the first round scuttling back instead of shooting. So it kind of works out. Advance warning of bad guys also makes it easier for the rest of the party to avoid sudden death early rounds of combat.
clannagh
07-09-07, 10:14 PM With my archer, there isn't much I can do along those lines, but my other characters can usually adjust their style to give more airtime to others. Actually...my archer is far more likely to be a "point scout" when playing down, which means he's exposed to enemy attacks and may sometimes spend the first round scuttling back instead of shooting. So it kind of works out. Advance warning of bad guys also makes it easier for the rest of the party to avoid sudden death early rounds of combat.

My archer usually ends up playing up but in the occasional combat that doesnt need someone firing 3 or 4 shots at +20 or more to hit she regularly throws bolas to trip the baddies. Shes not proficient and can only throw one a round but they still work well enough.
_metz_
07-10-07, 03:42 AM I am usually playing down with a rogue when I do (as I save my cleric for specific games due to TU issues)

As rogues are a level or two behind really compared to most other classes it means when I am playing down I can do more risky combat stuff, do more scouting and generally have more fun. Rogues rarely dominate the combat, even when playing down, so it hasn't been a problem.

Rogues (e.g: level 8) playing down to APL 6 can get away with a lot more 'rogue' stuff.

Though when hasted I did manage to hit a beastie for 20d6 plus static damage at APL 6. it was kind of impressive, but then again, its the equivalent to the APL 6 fighter with the greataxe critting, so it didn't detract from the other player's thunder.

I cover all APL ranges up to 10 so I try to never play characters down where they would take a hit, I usually wait till I can lay the game elsewhere. Up till now my characters have been around level 6-7 so can play a range of APLs and haven't had any issues. Though now I have a level 9 and am doing more slot zero's I expect some more issues with higher APL characters and plot arcs.

The few rare times My cleric has cropped up, I either just be bufftastic and ensure no one dies, or if the party is in trouble, divine power, enlarge, two handed power attack for the win. (Lots of rounds, but I usually have the option to sit back, and draw attention to myself)
King Kashue
07-11-07, 10:39 AM Most of my characters are pretty good playing down, and I've specifically built them that way.

Three Highest Characters:

My most powerful character (crazy min/maxed Bear Warrior) is a grappler, so I can just hold on to something and let everyone else sneak/power attack it to death.

My light fighter is a whirlwinder with a high AC and a ring of blinking, he sucks up attacks as a primary tactic, and can do less damage than normal pretty easily.

My Sorc is a buffer/nurfer, and is a *blast* to play down. I love it, I make everyone else crazy powerful and they get to go nuts on the Bad Guys.
LachlarlanIII
07-11-07, 11:04 AM Cast Limited Wish or Miracle and give all the lowbies +5 weapons for the duration of the mod.

This happened at a local interactive a year or so ago.
Frumpkis
07-11-07, 07:10 PM My primary is a caster bard, so when playing down out-of-APL, I focus less on the save-or-combat-ends spells (Feeblemind, Mindless Rage, Evard's), and more on the bard songs and debuffing spells (Glitterdust, Grease, Slow).

My other PCs haven't really had the chance to play down out-of-APL, so I can't really say what they'd do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
draxynnic 07-08-07, 09:46 AM	This thread is inspired, in part, from the statement in the "Non-core base classes" thread in the Characters forum, where someone stated how fighters without weapons tended to be in trouble... and I thought "Well, Trassin seemed to be able to handle himself pretty well... and he doesn't even have Imp. Unarmed Attack." To give a bit of background - A common reason I've heard for people not wanting to play down is that they feel that their character, if played down, would end up either dominating the entire module (well, the combat portions of it, anyway) or sitting back and not doing anything to give the other players a go unless things went pear-shaped. Most commonly this comes from fighter-types and arcanists, and to give them their due, it can, depending on the mod in question, be true. This got me thinking. My primary character is a bard, which kinda scuttles that possibility - bards as a rule don't break combats, they help other people break combats. My secondary, however, is a pure-classed fighter - not a powerattacking monstrosity like the people who make those claims are usually packing, but loaded with tricks like Imp. Disarm and Trip for quickly incapacitating a humanoid target. Due to this, the thought struck me early on that if he was ever in a no-weapons event and someone smuggled weapons in, chances are he wouldn't remain unarmed for long. Combining these thoughts, I set myself a challenge - if, for whatever reason, I was ever forced to play down out of APL with Trassin for whatever reason, he wouldn't draw a weapon unless it seemed likely that someone would die otherwise. Instead, he'd rely on stealing his opponent's weapons and wielding them against their owners, or if the enemy didn't have a weapon, pummeling them with spiked gauntlets (for the record, not his primary, or even secondary or tertiary, choice of weapon). This way, I'd be able to participate, but at reduced risk of being the one who does everything. Eventually it happened, I explained what I was doing to the other players, none of them objected, and as it turned out the module was full of humanoids. I'm not going to go into details because the module is still current, but we basically ended up turning a serious module almost into a comedy mod, from the halfling fighter (also playing down, but only two levels instead of three) trying to emulate him to an epic wrestling match with the leader of the final encounter over posession of his weapon. Overall, it was possibly one of the most memorable games I've played. So, to move onto the point of the thread after giving this story: Does anyone else have any similar 'contingency plans' - or even just a funny idea - for handicapping one or more of their characters if they're forced to play down by a significant margin? And if you've ever invoked them, how did things go?
UMiskatonic 07-08-07, 11:08 AM	I try not to go with the 'show stopping' moves if I'm playing significantly down, unless of course it's become an emergency. My cleric will back of on direct damage spells and things like divine power, and throw in support spells like stalwart pact and recitation. My paladin will generally full attack, instead of spirted charging, and I don't always have the special mount attack. My wizard will do more battlefield control, maybe the low-level fighter feels better about things when the giant is stuck in a web and blind.
UMiskatonic 07-08-07, 11:09 AM	I will also lend out gear, like spare magic weapons, vests of resistance, the occassional scroll, so that everyone has something to do with their time.
CdrcJsn 07-08-07, 05:17 PM	My now retired cleric of Zagyg once memorized Spiritual Weapon as his only offensive spell. I think it was around level 14 or 15 when he did it. Quickened Spiritual Weapon (via feat) Empowered Spiritual Weapon (via rod) Extended Spiritual Weapon (via rod) regular Spiritual Weapon It got ridiculous pretty fast and was surprisingly extremely effective. He also had a habit of relying on his Rod of Wonder when fights are well in hand.
Hariman 07-09-07, 12:00 AM	Unfortunately for me, my rogue wizard feels at home playing down. So he preps his usual array of blasting/control spells. (Lesser Orbs, Grease and Glitterdust one or two others.) He really shines if he can blast a blind enemy with his orbs, as sneak attack really does provide a boost right now.
solbergb 07-09-07, 12:49 PM	When I'm playing down I usually focus on more setup stuff and less "drop the hammer" stuff. My monk does more trips and grapples and less all-out attacks, the sorceress does more battlefield control and less direct damage...my warchanter and favored soul are support characters anyway so it doesn't come up much. Any of my characters that can buff do buff the snot out of the lower level characters. With my archer, there isn't much I can do along those lines, but my other characters can usually adjust their style to give more airtime to others. Actually...my archer is far more likely to be a "point scout" when playing down, which means he's exposed to enemy attacks and may sometimes spend the first round scuttling back instead of shooting. So it kind of works out. Advance warning of bad guys also makes it easier for the rest of the party to avoid sudden death early rounds of combat.
clannagh 07-09-07, 10:14 PM	With my archer, there isn't much I can do along those lines, but my other characters can usually adjust their style to give more airtime to others. Actually...my archer is far more likely to be a "point scout" when playing down, which means he's exposed to enemy attacks and may sometimes spend the first round scuttling back instead of shooting. So it kind of works out. Advance warning of bad guys also makes it easier for the rest of the party to avoid sudden death early rounds of combat. My archer usually ends up playing up but in the occasional combat that doesnt need someone firing 3 or 4 shots at +20 or more to hit she regularly throws bolas to trip the baddies. Shes not proficient and can only throw one a round but they still work well enough.
_metz_ 07-10-07, 03:42 AM	I am usually playing down with a rogue when I do (as I save my cleric for specific games due to TU issues) As rogues are a level or two behind really compared to most other classes it means when I am playing down I can do more risky combat stuff, do more scouting and generally have more fun. Rogues rarely dominate the combat, even when playing down, so it hasn't been a problem. Rogues (e.g: level 8) playing down to APL 6 can get away with a lot more 'rogue' stuff. Though when hasted I did manage to hit a beastie for 20d6 plus static damage at APL 6. it was kind of impressive, but then again, its the equivalent to the APL 6 fighter with the greataxe critting, so it didn't detract from the other player's thunder. I cover all APL ranges up to 10 so I try to never play characters down where they would take a hit, I usually wait till I can lay the game elsewhere. Up till now my characters have been around level 6-7 so can play a range of APLs and haven't had any issues. Though now I have a level 9 and am doing more slot zero's I expect some more issues with higher APL characters and plot arcs. The few rare times My cleric has cropped up, I either just be bufftastic and ensure no one dies, or if the party is in trouble, divine power, enlarge, two handed power attack for the win. (Lots of rounds, but I usually have the option to sit back, and draw attention to myself)
King Kashue 07-11-07, 10:39 AM	Most of my characters are pretty good playing down, and I've specifically built them that way. Three Highest Characters: My most powerful character (crazy min/maxed Bear Warrior) is a grappler, so I can just hold on to something and let everyone else sneak/power attack it to death. My light fighter is a whirlwinder with a high AC and a ring of blinking, he sucks up attacks as a primary tactic, and can do less damage than normal pretty easily. My Sorc is a buffer/nurfer, and is a blast to play down. I love it, I make everyone else crazy powerful and they get to go nuts on the Bad Guys.
LachlarlanIII 07-11-07, 11:04 AM	Cast Limited Wish or Miracle and give all the lowbies +5 weapons for the duration of the mod. This happened at a local interactive a year or so ago.
Frumpkis 07-11-07, 07:10 PM	My primary is a caster bard, so when playing down out-of-APL, I focus less on the save-or-combat-ends spells (Feeblemind, Mindless Rage, Evard's), and more on the bard songs and debuffing spells (Glitterdust, Grease, Slow). My other PCs haven't really had the chance to play down out-of-APL, so I can't really say what they'd do.