Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jay_Ibero_911 04-13-06, 11:27 PM	I would love the chance to play an Illumian in LG. I'd probably make a cleric, and take the sigils that let you spend a turn attempt twice a day to add 1d8 to a cure spell. Given that there are Asherati and Centaurs running around with the bright sands arc, I hope they do another arc that incorporates Illumians...
paigeoliver 04-14-06, 12:56 AM	I can't see any reason why I would want to play one. If they open anything else up I would prefer that it was some sort of established race that actually exists in Canon rather than something they made up to fill out 30 pages in the latest splatbook.
redgamer 04-14-06, 03:03 AM	No, and even less so in Greyhawk.
Mortepierre 04-14-06, 03:38 AM	Ditto. More canon-races, less page-fillers.
paigeoliver 04-14-06, 03:40 AM	I'd like to see perhaps something that lets you have a Dakon PC, since I have run into those in a couple modules (Redtide which comes with a Dakon cohort, and I saw them in a year 6 regional module as well). Other possibilities I might like to see include "Aquatic Elf" and doppleganger. Although I wouldn't like to see a lot of any of those running around. It might be nice if there was say one adventure out there that allowed for a number of alternate races (like sandstorm did), but they weren't the crappy sandstorm races.
boogahwoof 04-14-06, 04:50 AM	personally im not to concerned about races , but i played a few mods where i encounter psyionic creatures and humans, ide like to play one. i played one in a home campaign and it was alot of fun
Puggle Halfwine 04-14-06, 06:55 AM	No. I would not like to play one of the (IMHO) very silly page-filling "Races Of..." races anywhere, and especially not in LG. However, if I may express a secret desire here, I am HOPEFUL that the PHB II will include a whole bunch of base races when it's released. Basically, anything in the Monster Manual which doesn't have a level adjustment- add it. To that end... in Living Greyhawk, the races I would simply love to play (in rough, rough order): Kobold Goblin Aquatic Elf/Avariel (may be FR only? <shrug>) Any new varieties of Gnome/Halfling/Dwarf Planetouched (Again, maybe FR only?) Hobgoblin Bugbear Orc Basically... anything that's cannon and readily identifiable. When I say to a relatively new player, "I'm a kobold." they (mostly) know what I mean. Hell. I would even write it if I got my pick of races without needing to have played it...
ranagrande 04-14-06, 08:38 AM	I have to agree. Illumians, along with Warforged, are near the top of the list of races that I don't want to play. Races that I would very much like to play include Kobolds, Kuo-toas, and Slaadi.
opa 04-14-06, 10:13 AM	no to non canon races
Iswald 04-14-06, 10:13 AM	Kobold Goblin Aquatic Elf/Avariel (may be FR only? <shrug>) Any new varieties of Gnome/Halfling/Dwarf Planetouched (Again, maybe FR only?) Hobgoblin Bugbear Orc If you showed up as some of these races, PCs would be justified in killing your character, if they realized what you were.
Puggle Halfwine 04-14-06, 10:36 AM	If you showed up as some of these races, PCs would be justified in killing your character, if they realized what you were. No more justification than I would have to kill a half-orc PC if a character of mine had a significant grudge against orcs (such as being the last survivor of an orc raid, an entirely plausable character background). One of the things that distinguishes Good from Evil is the ability to see past a person's exterior and allow them to be judged on their merits. So far in LG I've seen both ogre and kobold Paladins as NPC's in modules... it's not inconceivable that some of their 'monster' brethren may also tend away from evil and become adventuring PC's.
Arvagor 04-14-06, 10:36 AM	If you showed up as some of these races, PCs would be justified in killing your character, if they realized what you were.One, no they wouldn't, unless they want to lose their PCs for attacking another player character. Two, that seems a little harsh don't you think? Of the 5 canon humanoids listed (kobold, goblin, hobgoblin, bugbear, orc), none have "Always xxx Evil" in their Alignment entries (the first four have "Usually", and orcs have "often") -- and I can recall meeting representatives of each of those races at some time or another (in LG, both regional and core mods) that were at least Neutral on the Good-Evil (and one definitely good -- a kobold paladin, in fact). (Edit: I'm sure Puggle and I have played the same mod in fact! ;) )
redgamer 04-14-06, 12:16 PM	personally im not to concerned about races , but i played a few mods where i encounter psyionic creatures and humans, ide like to play one. i played one in a home campaign and it was alot of fun Psionics does not (and according to multiple different campaign admins will never) exist in Greyhawk. If you faced a psions you are either misremembering or the judge misrepresented the mod. Even creatures like githyanki (sic?) do not have psionics. They may very well have spells or spell like abilities that from a players perspective work exactly like the psionics they have in other campaigns however.
kenobi65 04-14-06, 04:33 PM	Psionics does not (and according to multiple different campaign admins will never) exist in Greyhawk. Well, one could argue (with some validity) that they exist in the Greyhawk setting. As one example, there's even a deity in the LGG (Zuoken) whose description indicates that he is / was psionic. However, you're correct that the Circle has said, repeatedly, that psionics will never be available as a PC option in Living Greyhawk. Boogahwoof, if you're really interested in playing a psionic character, you should check out Living Arcanis or Mark of Heroes; both of those campaigns offer psionics.
Jay_Ibero_911 04-14-06, 08:23 PM	Wow, I didn't expect such overwhelming anti-illuimian sentiment...
beyowulf 04-14-06, 08:52 PM	Wow, I didn't expect such overwhelming anti-illuimian sentiment... Frankly, I've no idea what an Illuimian is, much less whether or not I'd want to play one.
paigeoliver 04-14-06, 09:02 PM	Its one of those races they made up out of nowhere for one of the complete books. If I remember correctly they look just like people, but have psionics. Frankly, I've no idea what an Illuimian is, much less whether or not I'd want to play one.
kenobi65 04-14-06, 11:39 PM	Wow, I didn't expect such overwhelming anti-illuimian sentiment... The issue seems to be that a lot of people who play LG are fans of the Greyhawk setting, and would like to see any additions to LG be consistent with the pre-existing canon of the game world. Since illumians have never "existed" in Greyhawk before, to introduce them now would require considerable hand-waving (so, where the heck had they been all this while?)
kenobi65 04-14-06, 11:44 PM	Its one of those races they made up out of nowhere for one of the complete books. If I remember correctly they look just like people, but have psionics. Not exactly. They look like humans (though many of them are bald), with a circle of glowing runes floating around their foreheads. They're not psionic, but the runes give them various supernatural powers; each time an illumian gains 2nd level in a new class, he gets another rune (so illumians receive a special benefit from multiclassing).
ShinAkuma2 04-16-06, 12:58 AM	Since illumians have never "existed" in Greyhawk before, to introduce them now would require considerable hand-waving (so, where the heck had they been all this while?) Well, where've the Asherati been? I'd never heard of them before Bright Sands/Sandstorm came out, and yet there they are.
paigeoliver 04-16-06, 01:15 AM	Maybe they were all hiding under the sand? :D Well, where've the Asherati been? I'd never heard of them before Bright Sands/Sandstorm came out, and yet there they are.
JamesMaissen 04-16-06, 02:35 AM	Wow, I didn't expect such overwhelming anti-illuimian sentiment... I think the real hatred part comes from how sick we are of seeing books with 'filler' in them. Making up these wierd, goofy races to pad books I find distasteful. I would rather the book simply be smaller if that was the only alternative. I think that's the first thought people have when they hear Illumian, that is assuming they know what the heck it is as it's only mentioned in the one book its trying to fill. That's how it's a throw away filler. It would be quite another thing if they really included them in a genre and supported them elsewhere. For example I don't have a problem with Ebberon's Warforged in comparison. But I'd have been happier for them to spend more time on Gnolls (perhaps reintroduce Flinds) than make up Raptorians. But as it's done, it's simply an effort to fill out a book, and a poor one at that, and gamers can recognize that for what it is and resent it. -James
Sect 04-16-06, 03:45 AM	Well, at least RoDragons brought out the Kobolds... though those Spellscales are kinda screwy...
Mortepierre 04-16-06, 03:49 AM	I think the real hatred part comes from how sick we are of seeing books with 'filler' in them. Making up these wierd, goofy races to pad books I find distasteful. I would rather the book simply be smaller if that was the only alternative. But as it's done, it's simply an effort to fill out a book, and a poor one at that, and gamers can recognize that for what it is and resent it. -James Amen, brother. Races that I would very much like to play include Kobolds, Kuo-toas, and Slaadi. Eh, you're interested in playing either a race which hates surface-dwellers for chasing them underground eons ago or a race which reproduces by parasiting other species? Well, I may lose my PC over this but - frankly - if either of those showed up in my team I wouldn't stop to consider that they might be the weird frog-like paladin being (if only because I've fought the latter species at least once). Sorry but some races just aren't meant to be played in a "normal" campaign, no matter how "kewl" some people think they are (although I suspect their innate abilities also have an impact on that choice *cough*).
Dominick 04-16-06, 07:50 AM	Well, at least RoDragons brought out the Kobolds... though those Spellscales are kinda screwy... Screwy by design. I think Kobolds would be a hoot in a LG campaign. A lot better, and more plausable, than a Illumian.
paigeoliver 04-16-06, 01:27 PM	Some of the traditionally "evil" humanoid races might make acceptable PCs in some areas of the campaign world, but you just couldn't take them most places. Also, I agree Illumians, and all those other races that debuted in the various "Races of" books are just filler. If they wanted filler they could have just reworked and included more of the material from all the old 2nd edition races books. Those things managed to go 128 pages per race without any real filler. Well, except for the halflings, the halfling culture changed almost completely between 2nd and 3rd edition, making most of the 64 pages on halflings in the old book as non-applicable. I don't play Ebberon or Dragonlance but I would have still been happier seeing warforged or Draconians something else that might be setting specific, but at least it is something that existed in people's gameworlds prior to the release of the book.
Lupo 04-16-06, 01:51 PM	Some of the traditionally "evil" humanoid races might make acceptable PCs in some areas of the campaign world, but you just couldn't take them most places. Also, I agree Illumians, and all those other races that debuted in the various "Races of" books are just filler. If they wanted filler they could have just reworked and included more of the material from all the old 2nd edition races books. Those things managed to go 128 pages per race without any real filler. Well, except for the halflings, the halfling culture changed almost completely between 2nd and 3rd edition, making most of the 64 pages on halflings in the old book as non-applicable. I don't play Ebberon or Dragonlance but I would have still been happier seeing warforged or Draconians something else that might be setting specific, but at least it is something that existed in people's gameworlds prior to the release of the book. actually i would like some more race options for players, especcially when a region has a humanoid population that would qualify, like the lizardmen of the vast swamp might be a good choice for sunndi. there is even a possibility of getting a lizardman cohort for some of us. the adri hosts some centaurs as well, according to some canon material, and even a regional interactive, but the local powers don't like them very much, actually centaurs are banned from innspa. even when open for players a lot of humanoids would face the problem of being not accepted in every region. or cause difficulties by having special abilities. the new races in the splat books are interesting but have no real roots in the greyhawk setting, so there is a very good reason needed to plant any of them to lg. ciao martin m. ps: for the asherati the bright desert arc was such a good hook and ideal setting. but even then i decided against playing a centaur or asherati.
PaulH 04-16-06, 06:10 PM	I'd like to see perhaps something that lets you have a Dakon PC, since I have run into those in a couple modules (Redtide which comes with a Dakon cohort, and I saw them in a year 6 regional module as well). Other possibilities I might like to see include "Aquatic Elf" and doppleganger. Although I wouldn't like to see a lot of any of those running around. It might be nice if there was say one adventure out there that allowed for a number of alternate races (like sandstorm did), but they weren't the crappy sandstorm races. Hi The problem with Dakon PC's is they're too powerful. (Major stat bonuses).You'd have to take levels in Dakon just like Centaurs. Not sure about Asherati - too weak (fatally so) outside Bright Sands. All those problems every time you take a swim.... DO like the regional flavour for Dwarves & Half-Orcs, plus regionalised classes such as Druid & Ranger. Offers refreshing change without too much disruption - races well balanced. Certainly agree on comments about 'padding' books with new PC races. Much rather them just be included in 'Monster' section, with applicable Level Adjustments. Cheers Paul H
Puggle Halfwine 04-17-06, 11:48 AM	Bottom line is, if someone got a Core module (I'm guessing it simply couldn't be a Regional) or Core Special approved, which granted a certificate (much like the Centaur cert) to be a kobold, you could play a kobold. ... So get writing, already! As I said, I'll happily write the whole thing myself if someone'll give me a cert as well. Hell. Even that is optional. Core circle? Are you reading this? :D
Simpi 04-17-06, 12:00 PM	Bottom line is, if someone got a Core module (I'm guessing it simply couldn't be a Regional) or Core Special approved, which granted a certificate (much like the Centaur cert) to be a kobold, you could play a kobold. ... So get writing, already! As I said, I'll happily write the whole thing myself if someone'll give me a cert as well. Hell. Even that is optional. Core circle? Are you reading this? :D I would not hold my breath. Speaking from personal experience I know strange races, even if they appear 'balanced' and part of the campaign world can lead to all kind of trouble. I've already gotten into useless arguments with centaur players where they insist they can actually climb a sheer rock face, despite rules in Races of the Wild clearly indicating otherwise (and I care what argument they have. If rules don't allow it, it cannot be done) So big no to any new races. S.H, the guy from Naerie
Puggle Halfwine 04-17-06, 12:24 PM	That may be true for Centaurs, but I havn't heard anyone complain about the horrible broken-ness of Asherati. IMHO, anything that's a humanoid and not one of the freak-madeup-filler races would be great in LG, for a little variety. And taken on the face of it, Kobolds are (from a minmaxers perspective) a weak race... -4 str, +2 dex, -2 con... and light sensitivity (is bad)... in exchange they have darkvision, +1 natural armour, trapmaking as a class skill, +2 on some skills... Personally, I see the only real problem with Kobold PC's is their antagonism towards Gnomes. But that's hardly any different than the Elves and Orcs struggle, which just adds to roleplaying flavour IMHO...
solbergb 04-18-06, 01:54 PM	No, I wouldn't play an illumian. They're goofy-looking. (and this is from someone who plays an Asherati (aka living lightbulbs))
Arvagor 04-18-06, 03:34 PM	and this is from someone who plays an Asherati (aka living lightbulbs)C'mon... Haven't you ever heard somebody described as having a "glowing tan"??? :D
delewobmesid 04-18-06, 03:47 PM	No, I wouldn't play an illumian. They're goofy-looking. (and this is from someone who plays an Asherati (aka living lightbulbs)) I called the three I went adventering with 'light brights'