Gnome blade bravo. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gnome blade bravo. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
paigeoliver
08-12-06, 04:39 AM Tonight my buddy and I were going through the books trying to pick out living greyhawk prestige classes that we have never seen anyone take, or really even heard anyone talk about.

We found the (Gnome) "Blade Bravo" and "Earth Dreamer".

Anybody have any build suggestions for these classes?
clik_ml
08-12-06, 09:25 AM Earth Dreamer is mostly only shines due to the stupid tunnel mods which make combats crawl ever so slowly (and lately have crept into core specials which are already under time crunches).

Being able to see through 30' of stone and earth gliding underneath stone often will make that character able to really break some combats I believe, but you have to burn 2 standard actions to do it and often a caster has much better things to do than that.

Only other odd thing to keep in mind for them is that you need a 13 wisdom to take Earth Sense to meet the pre-reqs and their levels come fairly late. A high Con is advised as well since the durations of the best two abilities are based upon it. Really Con should be high on any arcane caster's priorities anyway.

We probably don't see many Earth Dreamers since it is hidden in one of the Races books, and it doesn't start until level 8 at the earliest, and you don't get the good powers (Earth Sight and Earth Glide) until levels 11 and 12. With the first 3 levels as fairly dead levels, that's a long wait for a couple abilities which while good, are not super good mostly due to their short durations and that you need to burn 2 standard actions to use them both (which is horrible in most combats).

For Blade Bravo, I've heard at least of some folks suggesting it or asking for help building one. In those cases, most often I see folks fall into being a high-AC low-damage-output tank, which in my mind is a trap. If as a melee-er you can't compete in damage output, then I don't care if you can goad one enemy into wasting his time with you.

Ah well, time to drop off my tux and get back to GenCon.
Hasta,

- Erik
ShinAkuma2
08-12-06, 11:37 PM I find Swashbuckler/Blade Bravo makes for a pretty cool character. Throw in some feats like Confound the Big Folk (RotW), and you've got a winner.
copper_wyrmling
08-13-06, 03:59 AM I've played a couple of games with a high-level (~14) blade bravo. He was a high-Cha type with an astronomical AC and no damage potential to speak of, who relied on Goad (with quite a high DC) to keep big dangerous melee enemies focused on him, and used bardsong to buff the party. He had Titan Fighting, Giantbane and maybe Confound the Big Folk (I don't have Races of the Wild at hand), as well as all the Blade Bravo tricks. Of the two mods I played with him, one was a Core Special (Secrets of Tsojcanth high tier), and the other was a battle interactive, and he pulled his weight in both games. This type of PC does battlefield control, not damage: so long as they recognise that (and have something to do against opponents immune to Goad), I think they can function just fine.

Hmmmm, the prereqs for Blade Bravo are very similar to those for warchanter, maybe you could fit three warchanter levels in? Then you could inspire recklessness in your buddies with your standard action, and spend your move action goading them to attack your unhittable AC, rather than full-power-attacking your barbarian friend who just dumped all his AC into attack bonus...

As for Earth Dreamer, if I was playing an arcane caster, I think I'd take at least one Arcane Disciple feat, to get some synergy out of the high Wisdom requirement. Magic of the Land would also be very flavorful, and with Arcane Disciple (Healing) would make the character a reasonable backup healer. The prerequisite Earth Sense can lead to Earth Spell, which is rather powerful in the hands of a Shadowcraft Mage, and a gnome makes sense for Earth Dreamer since the abilities are Con-based. I've seen the Mobile Spellcasting feat suggested for Earth Dreamers, to allow them to come briefly out of the earth to cast a spell and then earthglide back in.

So maybe something like:
Gnome Illusionist 7 / Earth Dreamer 5 / Shadowcraft Mage 3 (or Earth Dreamer 3 / Shadowcraft Mage 5) - not necessarily in that order
Str 6 Con 16 Dex 8 Wis 14 Int 18 Cha 8

Feats:
L1: Spell Focus (Illusion)
L3: Arcane Disciple (Healing)
L5: Heighten Spell
L6: Earth Sense
L9: Magic of the Land
L12: Earth Spell
L15: Mobile Spellcasting (if all five levels of Earth Dreamer are taken)

Alternatively, going human and abandoning Shadowcraft Mage would free up more feats. You could mix in more domains with Arcane Disciple, or use Earth Dreamer's Heal-as-a-class-skill to qualify for Augment Healing if you really wanted to be a decent secondary healer. You could also use the extra low-level feats to qualify for another prestige class before Earth Dreamer: you could add some versatility by taking Mage of the Arcane Order for the spellpool, or continue the oracle theme of Earth Dreamer with Divine Oracle.
Maesto
08-13-06, 10:05 AM I haven't had any experience with Blade Bravo, but I've got a new character I plan to become an Earth Dreamer. Remember that Earth Sense has to be taken at or after level 3, which is a tad annoying. I decided that it sounded like a dwarfy prestige class, so I decided to take a dwarven cleric. I also decided to make a roleplaying character more than a powerful character, so I've opted for the feat "Ancestral Knowledge" from Races of Stone, which basically lets you make knowledge checks, and is cute.

Feats:
1
3 Ancestral Knowledge
6 Earthsense
9 Domain Spontaneity (Travel)
12

Basically 7 cleric, 5 earth dreamer. Earth domain would've been characterful, and if you can fit in the earth and dream domains, that would just be cute, but I chose Plant and Travel (Atroa). Mobile Spellcaster is sounding tempting at 12.

You need the turn attempts to pull off domain spontaneity, which hurts a bit for a dwarf but hey. Possible feat selections for 1 and 12 include metamagic and divine metamagic.

Any ideas, people? I'm leaning towards metamagic and divine metamagic, looking for a charisma boosting item, then mobile spellcaster at 15. I'm also leaning towards empower as a feat.

Jolyon
copper_wyrmling
08-13-06, 08:20 PM The problem with Divine Metamagic is that you pretty much need Extra Turning to pull it off more than 1-2x / day, especially as a dwarf, and even more so for a dwarf who also wants to use Domain Spontaneity.

Steady Concentration helps with Mobile Spellcaster. Divine Spell Power is imho better than Divine Metamagic, and only takes one feat (and fewer turn attempts).

For the L1 feat, maybe look at regional feats? Otherwise, metamagic is always good.
ShinAkuma2
08-13-06, 09:24 PM I also decided to make a roleplaying character more than a powerful character, so I've opted for the feat "Ancestral Knowledge" from Races of Stone, which basically lets you make knowledge checks, and is cute.

I agree that Ancestral Knowledge is a great feat, not power-wise, but fun-wise.

It's really appopriate for an Earth Dreamer, too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
paigeoliver 08-12-06, 04:39 AM	Tonight my buddy and I were going through the books trying to pick out living greyhawk prestige classes that we have never seen anyone take, or really even heard anyone talk about. We found the (Gnome) "Blade Bravo" and "Earth Dreamer". Anybody have any build suggestions for these classes?
clik_ml 08-12-06, 09:25 AM	Earth Dreamer is mostly only shines due to the stupid tunnel mods which make combats crawl ever so slowly (and lately have crept into core specials which are already under time crunches). Being able to see through 30' of stone and earth gliding underneath stone often will make that character able to really break some combats I believe, but you have to burn 2 standard actions to do it and often a caster has much better things to do than that. Only other odd thing to keep in mind for them is that you need a 13 wisdom to take Earth Sense to meet the pre-reqs and their levels come fairly late. A high Con is advised as well since the durations of the best two abilities are based upon it. Really Con should be high on any arcane caster's priorities anyway. We probably don't see many Earth Dreamers since it is hidden in one of the Races books, and it doesn't start until level 8 at the earliest, and you don't get the good powers (Earth Sight and Earth Glide) until levels 11 and 12. With the first 3 levels as fairly dead levels, that's a long wait for a couple abilities which while good, are not super good mostly due to their short durations and that you need to burn 2 standard actions to use them both (which is horrible in most combats). For Blade Bravo, I've heard at least of some folks suggesting it or asking for help building one. In those cases, most often I see folks fall into being a high-AC low-damage-output tank, which in my mind is a trap. If as a melee-er you can't compete in damage output, then I don't care if you can goad one enemy into wasting his time with you. Ah well, time to drop off my tux and get back to GenCon. Hasta, - Erik
ShinAkuma2 08-12-06, 11:37 PM	I find Swashbuckler/Blade Bravo makes for a pretty cool character. Throw in some feats like Confound the Big Folk (RotW), and you've got a winner.
copper_wyrmling 08-13-06, 03:59 AM	I've played a couple of games with a high-level (~14) blade bravo. He was a high-Cha type with an astronomical AC and no damage potential to speak of, who relied on Goad (with quite a high DC) to keep big dangerous melee enemies focused on him, and used bardsong to buff the party. He had Titan Fighting, Giantbane and maybe Confound the Big Folk (I don't have Races of the Wild at hand), as well as all the Blade Bravo tricks. Of the two mods I played with him, one was a Core Special (Secrets of Tsojcanth high tier), and the other was a battle interactive, and he pulled his weight in both games. This type of PC does battlefield control, not damage: so long as they recognise that (and have something to do against opponents immune to Goad), I think they can function just fine. Hmmmm, the prereqs for Blade Bravo are very similar to those for warchanter, maybe you could fit three warchanter levels in? Then you could inspire recklessness in your buddies with your standard action, and spend your move action goading them to attack your unhittable AC, rather than full-power-attacking your barbarian friend who just dumped all his AC into attack bonus... As for Earth Dreamer, if I was playing an arcane caster, I think I'd take at least one Arcane Disciple feat, to get some synergy out of the high Wisdom requirement. Magic of the Land would also be very flavorful, and with Arcane Disciple (Healing) would make the character a reasonable backup healer. The prerequisite Earth Sense can lead to Earth Spell, which is rather powerful in the hands of a Shadowcraft Mage, and a gnome makes sense for Earth Dreamer since the abilities are Con-based. I've seen the Mobile Spellcasting feat suggested for Earth Dreamers, to allow them to come briefly out of the earth to cast a spell and then earthglide back in. So maybe something like: Gnome Illusionist 7 / Earth Dreamer 5 / Shadowcraft Mage 3 (or Earth Dreamer 3 / Shadowcraft Mage 5) - not necessarily in that order Str 6 Con 16 Dex 8 Wis 14 Int 18 Cha 8 Feats: L1: Spell Focus (Illusion) L3: Arcane Disciple (Healing) L5: Heighten Spell L6: Earth Sense L9: Magic of the Land L12: Earth Spell L15: Mobile Spellcasting (if all five levels of Earth Dreamer are taken) Alternatively, going human and abandoning Shadowcraft Mage would free up more feats. You could mix in more domains with Arcane Disciple, or use Earth Dreamer's Heal-as-a-class-skill to qualify for Augment Healing if you really wanted to be a decent secondary healer. You could also use the extra low-level feats to qualify for another prestige class before Earth Dreamer: you could add some versatility by taking Mage of the Arcane Order for the spellpool, or continue the oracle theme of Earth Dreamer with Divine Oracle.
Maesto 08-13-06, 10:05 AM	I haven't had any experience with Blade Bravo, but I've got a new character I plan to become an Earth Dreamer. Remember that Earth Sense has to be taken at or after level 3, which is a tad annoying. I decided that it sounded like a dwarfy prestige class, so I decided to take a dwarven cleric. I also decided to make a roleplaying character more than a powerful character, so I've opted for the feat "Ancestral Knowledge" from Races of Stone, which basically lets you make knowledge checks, and is cute. Feats: 1 3 Ancestral Knowledge 6 Earthsense 9 Domain Spontaneity (Travel) 12 Basically 7 cleric, 5 earth dreamer. Earth domain would've been characterful, and if you can fit in the earth and dream domains, that would just be cute, but I chose Plant and Travel (Atroa). Mobile Spellcaster is sounding tempting at 12. You need the turn attempts to pull off domain spontaneity, which hurts a bit for a dwarf but hey. Possible feat selections for 1 and 12 include metamagic and divine metamagic. Any ideas, people? I'm leaning towards metamagic and divine metamagic, looking for a charisma boosting item, then mobile spellcaster at 15. I'm also leaning towards empower as a feat. Jolyon
copper_wyrmling 08-13-06, 08:20 PM	The problem with Divine Metamagic is that you pretty much need Extra Turning to pull it off more than 1-2x / day, especially as a dwarf, and even more so for a dwarf who also wants to use Domain Spontaneity. Steady Concentration helps with Mobile Spellcaster. Divine Spell Power is imho better than Divine Metamagic, and only takes one feat (and fewer turn attempts). For the L1 feat, maybe look at regional feats? Otherwise, metamagic is always good.
ShinAkuma2 08-13-06, 09:24 PM	I also decided to make a roleplaying character more than a powerful character, so I've opted for the feat "Ancestral Knowledge" from Races of Stone, which basically lets you make knowledge checks, and is cute. I agree that Ancestral Knowledge is a great feat, not power-wise, but fun-wise. It's really appopriate for an Earth Dreamer, too.