Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-27-06, 10:17 AM	Hi guys and gals i need help i'm making a Paladin as my first LG character and i need help with the Gods in that region . I wanted to be a paladin of Pelor but i'm not sure its posible ( for the Pelor part ) in that region . If you could also coment on my Build any input would would be apreciated . Str :8+6=14 Dex:8+4=12 con:8+2=10 int:8+6=14 Wis:8+4=12 cha:8+6=14 con : 4 diplo :4 K. religion :2 K.Nobility :2 Ride :4 S. motive :4 Power attack Cleave I love skills as per the 14 intel and with that build i could have a role on and off the field also i'm thinking of going Hunter of the dead later on . Also i'm not sure if i should go 2H with great sword or Long sword with shield i am planing on taking divine shield or divine might ( or both depending on fighting style )
Mommy was an Orc 11-27-06, 11:39 AM	Hi guys and gals i need help i'm making a Paladin as my first LG character and i need help with the Gods in that region . I wanted to be a paladin of Pelor but i'm not sure its posible ( for the Pelor part ) in that region . If you could also coment on my Build any input would would be apreciated . Str :8+6=14 Dex:8+4=12 con:8+2=10 int:8+6=14 Wis:8+4=12 cha:8+6=14 I'd strongly recommend raising that constitution - you're essentially going to have Rogue hit points as the frontline tank while not doing enough damage with your 14 Strength. If you have to have a 10 Con, you might want to consider going Wood Elf for the cheap benefit to Strength - though that might have consequences in Tusmit(Ket treats Elves as being equivalent to property, not sure how Tusmit does it) The various baklunish deities are the ones you want to pick from...the Living Greyhawk compilation in my sig has a link to the deities document.
UMiskatonic 11-27-06, 11:54 AM	I would push your dexterity down to 10, maybe even 8, and commit to heavy armor. You can't be good at everything. Con will be more valuable than Dex, as Mommy mentioned. If you are just getting started, I found it VERY helpful to start with two levels of fighter. Two more feats makes a huge difference. Currently, I'm ftr2/paladin 8, and doing just fine. No reason why a fighter can't be religious, after all. Most Baklunish paladins worship Al'Akbar or Azor-Alq. Pelor is a god of foreigners. Tusmit takes horses very seriously, and you'll probably end up with either a scimitar or falchion as your melee weapon. That's not to say that you CAN'T be a paladin of Pelor. You certainly can. However, you will be the exception, and not the rule. Many organizations (church of Al'Akbar) will not allow you to join, and it may be harder to negotiate with certain locals. As for weapons, there's no reason you can't do both. Buy a heavy shield, and a scimitar and a falchion. Adjust your fighting style based on who you are adventuring with. If there are a lot of clerics, use the falchion and have them heal you. If you are the only melee guy, use the shield to last through the fight, and let the archers and wizards worry about dealing damage. Get a lance too, and a morningstar for creatures who are immune to slashing damage.
retro 11-27-06, 07:47 PM	Like UMisk and Mommy said, get a higher Constitution. Con is key for a front-line fighter. I know that you want skill points, but paladin is a poor choice for skills- it may be an idea to get dex 10 con 14 int 12. As for playing a Pelorite in Tusmit, I can't speak for the roleplaying benefits or drawbacks, but your character can follow any paladin-legal deity in the Deities document, no matter what region he calls home. You may suffer the occasional interaction penalty with NPCs in regional adventures, or, as UMisk said, have trouble joining regional meta-orgs, but the choice is up to you.
Japangirl 11-27-06, 07:53 PM	You may also want to buy at least a 13 wisdom, possibly 14. You will get 3rd and 4th level spells eventually if you go straight paladin, and you will want to be able to cast them.
_m_ 11-27-06, 09:58 PM	not to say the same thing as the others... but take more con. really.
jstorrie 11-27-06, 10:27 PM	I'd strongly consider multiclassing out into another Charisma-favouring prestige class during your character's career. Living Greyhawk is not particularly kind to straight paladins, as requiring points in Wisdom further dilutes your stats (already spread thin between Strength, Con, and Cha.) Potentially decent routes for a multiclass Paladin could include: Marshal (Charisma-powered auras that help the party as a whole) Favoured Soul (Charisma-powered spellcasting) Divine Crusader (accelerated Charisma-powered spellcasting, but with a narrow focus) Shadowbane Inquisitor/Stalker (Charismatic rogue mixes - require access) Sorceror (for the reliable Pal / Sorceror / Spellsword build) Bard (via Devoted Performer) Cavalier (trade spellcasting for mounted combat power) The more you can focus your stat allocation via synergistic class choices, the more you will excel. A well-planned Paladin build that cherry-picks a number of good Charisma-focused abilities can drop Wisdom entirely for 16 Cha and start out with an advantage over the vanilla Paladin, who has to wait until the late levels for his points spent in Wis to even matter. Ditto for a well-planned Paladin melee or mounted-melee build that can drop Wis for higher Str/Con.
Madfox11 11-28-06, 05:19 AM	Most Baklunish paladins worship Al'Akbar or Azor-Alq. Pelor is a god of foreigners. Tusmit takes horses very seriously, and you'll probably end up with either a scimitar or falchion as your melee weapon. Is Pelor a god of foreigners? I have seen a favor in VTF meta-regionals that gives benefits to followers of Baklunish deities AND Pelor while on a quest for the cup and talisman - suggesting Pelor is part of the Baklundish pantheon. It wouldn't be the most obvious choice for paladins in the region though... Mind you, I am not an expert on the Baklundish side of the Flanaess. It is very far from my own region ;)
GaloisTheOmnipotent 11-28-06, 08:19 AM	Hi, I'm from Tusmit. While Pelor clearly is not a major player in the area, there's absolutely no problem worshipping it. Pelor churches/temples/shrines are available in most cities. The church is know to be on the rebellion side of Tusmit. But note that the rebellion problem will be fixed on Preskmascon this weekend. So, there's no problem there. If you want to have an impact in games, prefer Al'Akhbar. The Four Feet of the Dragon (piety, generosity, etc...) shares values with the ideals of Pelor (LG vs NG). So, it wouldn't be a major problem. If you can roleplay a follower of Pelor, you can do the same with Ali. For the elven suggestion, there are some xenophobic issues in Tusmit, but it's SOOO far from what is going on at Ket. Most of the time, being an elf is no problem. Some of the time, it's a good thing. Rarely, you'll be in trouble (and big time)... Sorry for my english, Tusmit is mostly french (from Canada) ;) Have fun in our region!
gomeztoo 11-28-06, 09:26 AM	Al Akhbar is ok... My totally opportunistic rogue saw the glory of Al Akhbar when it turned out that worship was the only way they would allow him to join this ultrasuparsecret society... So now he is trying his best to live up to the tennets of the faith and this 'NG' alignment people keep tellinh him he has to follow... Which doesn't means he doesn't attempt to pilfer anything not bolted down... (it's how he got his own holy symbol in the first place)... Promises to be fun. "What do you mean I have to give it back? I only took half his stuff... I'm feeling pretty generous here already..." Greaser, Other cities have thieves. Dyvers has professionals.
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 12:29 PM	Ty for all the replys . And i was wondering ... are the Core class options legal in LG like the paladin with no spells option from the Complete Warrior ( bye bye wisdom :cheer: ) or the one in PH II . No wisdom would be great if i multy-class with sorcerer or a non-caster class/Pclass .
Japangirl 11-30-06, 03:57 PM	Sadly, no alternate class features are currently available, from any of the Complete books or the PHBII.
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 05:33 PM	Sadly, no alternate class features are currently available, from any of the Complete books or the PHBII. Ty. But I am really starting to wonder if a Paladin is a viable character choice. With the LG character creation rules a Paladin ( and the Ranger to a lesser extent ) is just too damn expensive stat wise . I understand you cant be good at every single thing but a Paladin needs str and con since he is in melee , wisdom for his spells and charisma for his other abilities + he kinda needs concentration and ride since he will cast in melee and , well , he does have a mount that he summons . Just to compare with a fighter he needs 2 stats str and con and his feats are NOT stat dependant ( exept for requirements ) So why play a Paladin if you sacrifice key abilities : melee or casting and abilities ( beside RP " Excuse me Sir Vilain but our rogue is trying to sneak up on you . " :twitch: ) . Well thats Just my 2 copper's
Britt 11-30-06, 05:40 PM	A paladin is not supposed to compare to any of those other classes. Yes, you would have to work hard to compare to a fighter, cleric, or any other class, but if you wanted to compare to them, why aren't you that class? If you are wanting to compare to all of them, you are wanting to play a broken character :p Paladins are secondary/hybrid classes that are intended to do many things at a lesser level than a class that only does one of those things. If you want to play a paladin, you either have to accept being mediocre at all of their abilities or sacrifice to be crappy in some of their abilities and good in others.
kenobi65 11-30-06, 05:48 PM	But I am really starting to wonder if a Paladin is a viable character choice. With the LG character creation rules a Paladin ( and the Ranger to a lesser extent ) is just too damn expensive stat wise . Paladins, like Monks and Rangers, suffer from what I've seen called MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependency). It makes them more challenging to play in a point-buy environment, esp. at a 25- or 28-point buy (Living City, for example, used to use a 32-point buy, and it probably helped a bit). As Britt notes, it means that you either (a) don't do some of the class's things well, or (b) do everything not as well as a specialist would. I play a paladin in LG, and I enjoy the challenge. True, he's only got a 12 Dex and a 12 Wisdom, and, so, he's not going to be great at riding or spellcasting. For me, Str and Cha are the most important paladin stats, followed closely by Con (and I had to skimp on the Con more than I wanted, only getting a 12...took Improved Toughness, and plan to buy an Periapt of Health someday). The only real reason most paladin builds would need Dex is for Ride; I've seen very few paladins not running around (well, clanking around) in full plate, and thus, anything above a 12 Dex goes to waste there. OTOH, I've had relatively few modules in which Ride really came into play. Wis is nice, but not terribly necessary -- paladins just don't get a whole lot of spells. At 6th level, I can cast 2 spells per day -- woot! ;) Even with a 16 Wisdom, at 15th level (retirement level for the campaign), you'd only have 7 spells per day. (I'll acknowledge that maybe I'm one of the few who choose to take up this challenge...my paladin's 6th level, and in 22 modules, I've encounted 65 different other PCs, and not a single other paladin.)
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 05:54 PM	A paladin is not supposed to compare to any of those other classes. Yes, you would have to work hard to compare to a fighter, cleric, or any other class, but if you wanted to compare to them, why aren't you that class? If you are wanting to compare to all of them, you are wanting to play a broken character :p Paladins are secondary/hybrid classes that are intended to do many things at a lesser level than a class that only does one of those things. If you want to play a paladin, you either have to accept being mediocre at all of their abilities or sacrifice to be crappy in some of their abilities and good in others. I understand your point but the way i see it Fighter vs Paladin both equal in brute fighting abilities : BaB , AC also Armor , weapon proficiency and shields ( exept tower shield ) and then a :ton: of feats for the Fighter and lay on hands , aura of courage , spells , divine healt ,divine grace ... for the Paladin . I dont think the Paladin is broken FAR from it BUT with the character creation rules of LG it just makes them VERY hard to do thats all . ( not to mention the Paladin's code )
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 05:57 PM	Paladins, like Monks and Rangers, suffer from what I've seen called MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependency). It makes them more challenging to play in a point-buy environment, esp. at a 25- or 28-point buy (Living City, for example, used to use a 32-point buy, and it probably helped a bit). As Britt notes, it means that you either (a) don't do some of the class's things well, or (b) do everything not as well as a specialist would. I play a paladin in LG, and I enjoy the challenge. True, he's only got a 12 Dex and a 12 Wisdom, and, so, he's not going to be great at riding or spellcasting. For me, Str and Cha are the most important paladin stats, followed closely by Con (and I had to skimp on the Con more than I wanted, only getting a 12...took Improved Toughness, and plan to buy an Periapt of Health someday). The only real reason most paladin builds would need Dex is for Ride; I've seen very few paladins not running around (well, clanking around) in full plate, and thus, anything above a 12 Dex goes to waste there. OTOH, I've had relatively few modules in which Ride really came into play. (I'll acknowledge that maybe I'm one of the few who choose to take up this challenge...my paladin's 6th level, and in 22 modules, I've encounted 65 different other PCs, and not a single other paladin.) Would you mind posting your Build i'm curious . Frankly any full plate wearer with more then 12 ( or 13 for some feats ) is a waste , unless you have acess to a Mythtril Full plate ;)
Britt 11-30-06, 05:59 PM	I include attribute investment requirements as part of play balance, though. A fighter is able to focus in one to two stats without giving up any abilities, while a paladin has to focus in three or four stats to avoid giving up any abilities. I consider that part of the balance between the classes. Because of that, the paladin will never be as good as the fighter at standing there and hitting things. It's not a restriction of LG; it's a restriction of 3.x. As long as you have balanced creation rules, this will always be an issue for paladins, monks, and similar classes.
Britt 11-30-06, 06:01 PM	Oh, and this is why I particularly hate feats such as Insightful Reflexes and that Paladin of Rao feat (can't remember the name) that negate part of class balancing.
UMiskatonic 11-30-06, 06:58 PM	But those feats have an opportunity cost, which is that you have one less feat. It's not free. I went with a Dex of 10, and an Int of 8, and I'm doing fine with my paladin. As a human, I get two skill points a level, which means maxing out ride, and then 5 ranks in handle animal, and the rest split as I please. I've never once made a concentration check to cast in combat. If I'm being threatened, I'm close enough to attack, which is far superior to my meager spellcasting. Paladins are much better when NOT fighting. I've seen fighters sit around doing nothing for 75% of an adventure, while the high-charisma guy with detect evil was useful all around the town. You are almost as good as a fighter in combat, and you've got a variety of useful abilities to balance the lack of feats. Also, more versatile. I've had to be the cleric before, and with resurgence, lesser restoration, lay on hands, and a wand of CLW, you can do an adequate job. A straight fighter couldn't even try. I'd say it's balanced pretty well. If you really want to do a lot of melee, I'd go with paladin fighter or straight fighter
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 07:08 PM	I include attribute investment requirements as part of play balance, though. A fighter is able to focus in one to two stats without giving up any abilities, while a paladin has to focus in three or four stats to avoid giving up any abilities. I consider that part of the balance between the classes. Because of that, the paladin will never be as good as the fighter at standing there and hitting things. It's not a restriction of LG; it's a restriction of 3.x. As long as you have balanced creation rules, this will always be an issue for paladins, monks, and similar classes. So let me get this straith some classes can use ALL there abilities but some have to chose a few or have them all but weaker and you call that balance ? come on ! Its like saying a druid could Wildshape OR cast spells . The Ranger has the choice of range or 2wf now its for balance that he dosent have both , that is not the case for the Paladin . And again the Paladin is not broken just less viable with the LG character creation rules . Now i dont think rolling dices is fair ( some people are just more lucky then others ). In my DM's home games we play with 32pts ( +8 per stats ) but pts cost is always 1 .
Britt 11-30-06, 07:32 PM	Yes, that's part of balance. If a paladin is able to do all of its possible abilities as well as primary classes do their sole ability, the paladin is far more powerful than those other classes. That is the nature of hybrid classes. I think 32 point-buy is a little more powerful than I tend to like but still definitely reasonable. I do not think 32 point-buy with all points costing 1 is at all reasonable. I think it destroys part of the class balance inherent in 3.x by removing the need for you to make tough decisions about your character, especially in cases such as hybrid classes. You're free to disagree of course, but it is fairly hard to dispute that two characters with 18s in all stats, one being a paladin and one being a fighter, the paladin is more powerful. The more points you allow in point-buy, the closer you get to that extreme. If each character was only allowed 15 point-buy, the paladin would definitely be weaker. The trick is to find the break point, which I think 28 point-buy fairly well does. Heck, we played Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil with 22 point-buy and loved it.* As to the feats I mentioned above being an opportunity cost, yes they are, but I don't think that excuses it. I think that feats should grant new abilities or improved use of current abilities. I do not think feats should alter the inherent class balance features. If a feat being an opportunity cost justifies any feat, the "I W1nz0rx" feat would be justified. * disclaimer: I prefer low power and lower fantasy campaigns.
solbergb 11-30-06, 07:35 PM	Regarding raw power of paladin... Don't look at the paladin by himself. Look at him plus his mount. That's what the class is balanced around, and it is why the class actually is a fair contributor at melee damage and tanking anywhere the mount can be present. He's also usually pretty good until he runs out of smites vs anything evil.
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 07:59 PM	I think 32 point-buy is a little more powerful than I tend to like but still definitely reasonable. I do not think 32 point-buy with all points costing 1 is at all reasonable. I think it destroys part of the class balance inherent in 3.x by removing the need for you to make tough decisions about your character, especially in cases such as hybrid classes. I agree that 32 points is a bit much but MUCH beter then with dices i jave personaly seen people roll 3x18 and have a 14 as the lowest score and another player with a 14 as his highest now try as a DM to make the game fun for everyone . So again yes its a bit high but just . As for hybrid classes yes it helps them but it is still balanced oh and dont forget as a Paladin yopu can lose your powers REAL fast . ( depending on the DM ) You're free to disagree of course, but it is fairly hard to dispute that two characters with 18s in all stats, one being a paladin and one being a fighter, the paladin is more powerful. The more points you allow in point-buy, the closer you get to that extreme. I disagree and no offence but who thought you math ? Playing ANY caracter With 18 in all stats would be very boring :bored: And yes it may seem to you ( again no offence ) that a Paladin with all his abilities ( undiluded ) would not be overpowering a fighter but would be more versatile . * disclaimer: I prefer low power and lower fantasy campaigns. * disclaimer: I prefer high power and higher fantasy campaigns just a guess but it might be why we disagree ;) Hey i do come from FR ;)
Britt 11-30-06, 08:05 PM	I disagree and no offence but who thought you math? Which level of math? :) There is no math in that statement, so I'm not sure why you think there is incorrect math. The only numbers in that statement are a hypothetical situation with all 18s and a different hypothetical situation where you only have 15 point-buy.
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 08:06 PM	Regarding raw power of paladin... Don't look at the paladin by himself. Look at him plus his mount. That's what the class is balanced around, and it is why the class actually is a fair contributor at melee damage and tanking anywhere the mount can be present. He's also usually pretty good until he runs out of smites vs anything evil. The trouble is your mount is a once a day Ability not a duration per day if so i would agree + you cant use it everywhere AND you need the skill and feat to use it to full potential and granted the mount is more powerfull but you dont need to be a Paladin to mount a grffon for exemple .
Kelios_Lyonsmane 11-30-06, 08:08 PM	Which level of math? :) There is no math in that statement, so I'm not sure why you think there is incorrect math. The only numbers in that statement are a hypothetical situation with all 18s and a different hypothetical situation where you only have 15 point-buy. Hypothetical math offcourse :teach:
retro 12-01-06, 12:42 AM	The trouble is your mount is a once a day Ability not a duration per day if so i would agree + you cant use it everywhere AND you need the skill and feat to use it to full potential and granted the mount is more powerfull but you dont need to be a Paladin to mount a grffon for exemple . How do you mean, once a day? A paladin's mount is with him all of the time, like a druid's animal companion, unless he's indoors, in a dungeon, etc. Even then, judicious use of scrolls, magic items, etc can help mount availability.
jstorrie 12-01-06, 02:11 AM	Paladins get their mount for two hours per class level, and can summon it once per day as a full-round action. If you're expecting to spend most of a day in a cave or structure, it helps to leave your mount unsummoned and then only bring it in for a combat encounter where it can help. Similarly, you can pop it into city plazas or whatever.
solbergb 12-01-06, 06:57 PM	Yes, the mount might be out of his 10 hour (minimum) time window and/or he might not fit into a given encounter. But the rest of the time he does. A paladin without his mount is in better shape than a rogue against something nonsneakable. Also a paladin who makes a save because of his divine grace or didn't have to roll because of his immunities is better off than some other fighter type who failed the save, because he's still swinging. You have to look at the whole package. My monk has been the only "fighter" many times, has crap for armor class but has held up ok defensively because he makes saves, has immunities etc and his battlefield control skills (grapple/trip) work OFTEN ENOUGH that as a package he fills the melee roll pretty well, even though there are some that do more damage, some that tank better, etc. Tanking....Paladin AND mount have big advantages (two creatures that are both intelligent, better than normal saves for paladin, evasion for mount, ususally good AC plus using mount for cover or using mounted combat skill to help mount dodge an attack, plus fill size large area, etc, some ability to self-heal, defensive spell options, etc) Attacking...paladin AND mount again have advantages (options for damage multiplication on single attack via lance, or options to get 3 extra natural attacks with decent mods and shared spells that boost both pally+mount attacks) Without the mount, the Paladin is still decent at both. He's still a full BAB guy with heavy armor and martial weapons, decent saves, immunities and some minor spell ability to boost his choice of offense or defense. You should be able to use the mount 2/3 of the time from level 5 onwards. You need a plan for the earlier days (maybe buy a wardog or warhorse to simulate the mount, and make use of your good cha and animal handling/ride skills) and you should try not to be useless without the mount...but do accept that all you are shooting for is "meaningful" damage not "I make the barbarian look puny" damage. The latter, you need your mount to have a real shot at it.
Sutro 12-02-06, 01:09 AM	I'd say take two points from Wisdom and two points from Int to put in there. You're getting four skill points a level which should be fine and a 12 wisdom gets you your bonus spell at 4th and you have plenty of time between 7th and whenever to get a Periapt of Wisdom, or just put your bonus points at 4th and 8th into it. Five skill points a level for a tank class is a little excessive; there are certain skills you're never going to be good at because of ACP (climb, jump, swim, etc) that make no sense to put points in. Four is even pushing it. I've seen K:N&R come up oh, maybe four times in well over 100 mods played from eight regions. Tusmit might have a little more utility for it, but not enough to justify maxing it out. I'd put a couple points in it just to be able to use it and forget about it. Plan on 5 points put in Handle Animal for synergy, at least 5 in K:R (as that does come up fairly frequently for undead identification as well as holy symbols), keep ride maxxed and put whatever you can spare into Diplomacy and Sense Motive. Diplomacy and Sense Motive are both skill checks that come up very often and CAN have big consequences on what the party does (as well as speed the adventure along.) My starting skill build for a 12 int human pally would be thus: 1 K:N&R 2 K:R 3 Dip 2 Sense 4 Ride 4 Handle Animal Next level: 1 Handle 1 Ride 2 Sense 3rd: 1 K:R 1 Ride 2 Dip 4th: 1 Ride 2 K:R (for synergy with your newfound turning checks) 1 Sense From 5th on, keep pumping them into ride, sense and dip, and every so often put a point into K:R as the HD of your opponents advance in APLs and you want to keep up your ability to ID them. -Sutro
kenobi65 12-02-06, 01:28 PM	Would you mind posting your Build i'm curious . Frankly any full plate wearer with more then 12 ( or 13 for some feats ) is a waste , unless you have acess to a Mythtril Full plate ;) Sure. (Sorry it took me a while to get back to this, been busy.) Human (Oeridian) Paladin of Heironeous Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 14 (bumped to 15 at 4th) Skills: fair number of ranks in Diplomacy, Kn: Religion, Ride, and Spot (cc). Feats: Weapon Focus (longsword), Power Attack, Nymph's Kiss* (3rd), Improved Toughness (6th) * - A limited feat from Book of Exalted Deeds, to which I got access via an AR; among other things, it gives +1 skill point per level, which is a nice benny. Improved Toughness has the net effect of +2 Con, at least for hit points. Have bought Gauntlets of Ogre Power; plan on buying an Amulet of Health and a Cloak of Charisma as money allows.
Sutro 12-03-06, 02:42 AM	Ah yes, but what did the fine, chaste paladin have to do to get access to Nymph's Kiss? Heh heh heh. -Sutro
Britt 12-03-06, 02:57 AM	Who said anything about paladins being chaste? My paladin retired with a nymph cohort/wife :) Now that's something to cause even the righteous to quit the life of adventuring.
kenobi65 12-03-06, 03:24 PM	Ah yes, but what did the fine, chaste paladin have to do to get access to Nymph's Kiss? Acted as the guardian to a dryad in a Verbobonc regional mod. The "favor" came as a bit of surprise...but, as Britt notes, "chaste" doesn't mean "celibate." :)
retro 12-04-06, 12:05 AM	Always chaste, often caught, eh? :smirk:
kenobi65 12-04-06, 10:22 AM	Always chaste, often caught, eh? :smirk: Ba-dum-BUMP! He'll be here all week. Remember to tip your waitresses. :)
solbergb 12-04-06, 12:16 PM	Yeah...chaste just means you make whoopie only with your spouse. In most cultures, it's something a LG person would do anyway. It's not like celibate at all. The paladin code is silent on sexual practices. "sex = bad" was St Paul's problem, it doesn't necessarily extend to Oerth cultures.
Lupo 12-04-06, 04:05 PM	Yeah...chaste just means you make whoopie only with your spouse. In most cultures, it's something a LG person would do anyway. It's not like celibate at all. The paladin code is silent on sexual practices. "sex = bad" was St Paul's problem, it doesn't necessarily extend to Oerth cultures. brings the idea of a paladin of atroa (n/g) or myrhiss (n/g) to my mind :D make love like war? or make love not war?? or make war like love??? ciao martin m.
Potmos 12-04-06, 05:52 PM	I'll chime in with my paladin build. Originally from Ekbir, but now living in Ket (after a one year stop over in Tusmit). The Baklunish people revere horses because of the background of the region, so I went with the traditional mounted heavy warrior. The Baklunish people also prefer the use of scimitars and falchions, so I went with the scimitar/shield for foot combat and lance/shield for mounted combat. Bahadur i-Taronish, Exalted One of the High Cleric (12th level Paladin of the Exalted Faith of Al'Akbar) Pure Baklunish human male original point allocation S: 14 D: 12 C: 12 W: 14 I: 10 Ch: 14 (charisma is now 18 naturally with 3 bumps from levels and 1 permanent boost from a now-retired core mod, 20 with a +2 cloak. Strength is 18 from a belt +4. next on the list of things to get is an amulet of Constitution +2, but I don't have any money after buying +2 adamantine fullplate) feats: 1) power attack, mounted combat. 3) ride-by attack. 6) spirited charge. 9) divine vigor. 12) leadership* (took leadership so late because of a change in people I usually play with, and we ended up losing our cleric because he outstripped our levels. so my cohort is a healing/buffing cleric) maximum ranks in ride. 5 ranks in handle animal. 5 ranks in knowledge(religion). 5 ranks in knowledge (nobility and royalty) <- this one comes up a fair bit in Ket, not sure about Tusmit. 5 ranks in sense motive. 2 ranks in speak language (ancient baklunish). the rest in diplomacy items of note: +1 holy adamantine scimitar. +2 adamantine full plate. +1 heavy shield. +1 lance. +4 belt of strength. +2 cloak of charisma. a few other various things. when engaging in hand-to-hand combat, my job is to keep the enemy from getting to the sorceress and the bard in the second rank, and to dish out some damage of my own while they and the others in the party wipe out the enemies. good saves and decent armour means taking less damage and not being held or turning on your party. divine vigor turns those turn attempts into temporary hitpoints and a 30' move to offset the lower constitution and slower move of heavy armour, and that coupled with my lay-on-hands means that the cleric doesn't have to come rescue me right away in the event that he and I get separated and I get badly hurt. in the event I am able to use my mount and my mounted combat feats, my job changes to taking out the most dangerous enemy with a power attack spirited charge (usually with a smite included) as quickly as possible. For really nasty creatures it's time to lose the shield and dish out a 2-handed power attack spirited charge + smite. a good bard here is your friend, with the +3 hit/damage from inspire and the +2 to hit from inspire greatness turning into 39 points of extra damage thanks to the power attack. (in a recent session, with a 12 point power attack + smite + rhino's rush spell + crit + bard song, I finally managed to break 300 points of damage, though I ended up miscalculating it as only 200 or so, but thankfully even that was enough. granted, it doesn't happen often, and there are builds that will dish out a huge amount more, but for a few minutes I was rather pleased) 1st level spell slots go to lesser restoration. Pearls of Power 1st level are relatively common, and a paladin can go a long way to helping out a party that has been poisoned, diseased, or just plain fatigued. (sadly, the remove disease ability doesn't seem to be very useful since all the diseases I've run into are 'special' diseases and can't always be cured) out of combat, detect evil can really help out in certain areas. in a pinch, I can act as the party diplomat, and if you decide to keep up sense motive (especially if you put more points into Int than I did) you can easily play the kind of paladin who attempts to expose all the lies and secrets people try to hide. (my PC is a bit too naive for that :) ) I've had some of the best moments in roleplaying happen because I play a paladin of the exalted faith of al'akbar in Ket. My PC has been cursed at, spit on, ignored, harangued, and treated poorly by NPCs and PCs, yet it always brings a smile to my face when those same people have to thank me after I help save them from the Major Crisis (whatever it is). The absolute best roleplaying interaction was between three PCs: a Lawful-Neutral cleric (a Mullah) of the True Faith of Al'Akbar, my Lawful-Good Paladin of the Exalted Faith of Al'Akbar, and a Chaotic-Good Holy Liberator of a strange gnostic faith of Al'Akbar. When playing a paladin, sometimes it's hard having to do the right thing. Sometimes that means walking away from the shady NPC and letting your party deal with him. Sometimes it means turning one of your party into the local law enforcement. But people don't play paladins because they are easy--people play paladins because it's the right thing to do. Michael