Greyhawk Ruins Confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Greyhawk Ruins Confusion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pedr
05-16-07, 03:24 AM Would it be possible to get a definitive statement about whether previously-played first-level characters can play CGR-1?

Locally we have a number of players with existing characters they'd like to consider playing in that arc, but are currently unsure whether that will be possible. If it is possible, they'll not play them in other modules in order to keep them under 2nd level. If it isn't possible, they might want to play them in those modules!

The initial information was that existing characters could play CGR. The FAQ type document subsequently seemed to change that to a rule that only brand new characters could play CGR-1, but yesterday's update of summer Core releases listed the older wording permitting existing characters to play.

Clarification would be very helpful indeed!
Wraith235
05-17-07, 12:54 AM I also have a question about this mod in reguards to the Snow Elf Campaign Card .... if you make a new Snow elf for Castle Greyhawk can you choose Greyhawk as the Snow Elfs Home Region (one of the bonus's to playing a New char Specifically for These Mods)
Redfist
05-17-07, 01:48 AM I also have a question about this mod in reguards to the Snow Elf Campaign Card .... if you make a new Snow elf for Castle Greyhawk can you choose Greyhawk as the Snow Elfs Home Region (one of the bonus's to playing a New char Specifically for These Mods)

The snow elf card itself answers the question.

"You may take the Crystalmist Mountains as your home region. You cannot change your home region. This card unlocks the snow elf subrace from Frostburn." etc.

So, snow elfs MUST be from "Crystalmist Mountains" and never change their home region. You also need to bring that card whenever you play your snow elf as it counts as one of your cards-in-play.
Wraith235
05-17-07, 01:59 AM The snow elf card itself answers the question.

"You may take the Crystalmist Mountains as your home region. You cannot change your home region. This card unlocks the snow elf subrace from Frostburn." etc.

So, snow elfs MUST be from "Crystalmist Mountains" and never change their home region. You also need to bring that card whenever you play your snow elf as it counts as one of your cards-in-play.

tho its not "Changing" the home region thats why all I'm looking for is some clarification....since the Quote from the announcment is

If you create a new character for the arc, you can choose the Domain of Greyhawk as your home region......

and more specifically since there are so many questions Reguarding how things have been written since the announcment

do I think I'll be able to Try to play this char thru these mods ...Probably not since my group is hijacking me to run them ....I'm Mainly asking for some sort of Clarification for others out there

and if I was able to play ... I would have no problem with the extra TU Costs for not being Greyhawk regions

and noone has been extremely forthcomming with answers to the questions this Card brings up
Redfist
05-17-07, 02:08 AM I believe Britt answered it at some point because someone pointed out "may" versus "must" on the card. I don't remember which thread he said it in, but he was pretty clear that Snow Elves start with Crystalmist Mountains as their home region and can never change it.
Wraith235
05-17-07, 02:13 AM his Quote was

The intent of the card was "must", not "may". I will discuss it with the others and figure out how to handle the card.

and thats Cool .... all I'm asking is about the 1 Line Addition to Greyhawk Ruins of :

If you create a new character for the arc, you can choose the Domain of Greyhawk as your home region

we all know that 1 Word can Change the entire Scope of a Ruling ... and which Ruling Trumps the other .... it can be very confusing ... thats why I'm hoping for some Clarification (Personally I could care less either way but I know I'm gonna have munchkiney players try to pull this on me so I'd prefer to be prepared)
Shieldhart91
05-21-07, 12:43 AM As Britt said- if you play a Snow Elf, it MUST be in the Crystalmist Mountains. 'Nuff said- there isn't a whole lot of argument about that.

As for the CGR- I'd just go with the most recent ruling.
qstor
05-21-07, 07:26 PM IIRC one of the Circle members clarified that a Greyhawk Ruins PC doesn't have to be on AR #1, however if the PC does start the Ruins arc with AR#1, it can have the Domain of Greyhawk as its home region and access to Greyhawk regional feats and 'metaorgs'

that's what I "get" from the wording at the bottom of this page:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgad/20070227a

Mike
pedr
05-21-07, 07:51 PM Thanks for that, Mike ... but from that document (dated Feb 27 07) you get: Q: Why is the arc only open to new characters?

Starting a new character with the Domain of Greyhawk as home region allows the player to better immerse himself in the rich setting that is Greyhawk City and Q: What happens if my character dies? Can I play subsequent parts of the series?

Yes, you can play subsequent parts of the series if your first character dies. Simply make a new character but include your previous character’s AR for the first Greyhawk Ruins adventure as the first AR in your new character’s stack.(emphasis mine)

Which strongly suggests/implies/assumes that you can only use brand new characters.

The May Core update said this: Domain of Greyhawk Residency
Only new or 1st-level characters can play in Greyhawk Ruins. (That is the AR for the first adventure must appear in your stack before you reach 2nd-level). If you create a new character for the arc, you can choose the Domain of Greyhawk as your home region. But I think that's just a copy/paste of the original announcement. Hence the confusion. I'd love to be able to tell the local group that they can start characters before September and play two modules with them (particularly as there's going to be a Core intro in the July retail kit, apparently) but I'm not convinced, so would really appreciate an official announcement!
Wraith235
05-22-07, 03:47 AM and thats why I wonder how that relates to the Snow Elf campaign Card .... if its an AR Award then it is 100% Self explanatory ...the "You cannot Change your home Region" would stay in effect ... however if it is pre Creation that you get the Greyhawk Region.... hopefully Britt can Throw us a bone here so that us GM's whos payers try to pull this on us can have a reason and explanation as to why not
qstor
05-27-07, 06:26 PM but I'm not convinced, so would really appreciate an official announcement!

IIRC one of the Circle member stated somewhere what I mentioned but I can't find it online.

MIke
Britt
05-27-07, 07:07 PM The latest information I have is that you have to start Greyhawk Ruins at first level, not as your first adventure.

With the current rules, you would not be able to have a Snow Elf with Greyhawk as their home region. I will talk to the others about it again, but I don't really think that will change. If it does, it would be in a Dispel Confusion.
pedr
05-27-07, 07:21 PM Thanks for the info, Britt.

Can you just confirm that this is a change from the Feb 27th document which said that the first AR of a character playing a CGR module had to be for CGR-1 ?
Britt
05-27-07, 11:07 PM All I can say until something becomes official is that that is the latest I have seen on works in progress.
WotC_Tulach
05-28-07, 03:17 AM Thanks for the info, Britt.

Can you just confirm that this is a change from the Feb 27th document which said that the first AR of a character playing a CGR module had to be for CGR-1 ?

Do keep in mind that until the campaign documents are officially available, anything concerning Greyhawk Ruins is subject to change.
pedr
05-28-07, 06:29 AM Yes, that's what I've been advising people.

The trouble is that two categories of players are in a quandry: those with 1st level characters uncertain whether to save them for CGR or play them and get them to 2nd level - this is not worth it if they won't be able to play existing characters anyway; and players with a new character concept wanting to play an intro module or similar, and uncertain whether doing that would mean they'd have to make another 1st level character for CGR-1.

I understand this might not actually have been decided yet, but it would be useful to have the information soon. My preference would be for greater freedom, i.e. to allow any character with <1000 XP to play CGR-1.
qstor
05-28-07, 09:20 PM I understand this might not actually have been decided yet, but it would be useful to have the information soon. My preference would be for greater freedom, i.e. to allow any character with <1000 XP to play CGR-1.

I think it was Creighton that mentioned AR1 for Greyhawk as the home region and access to special rules options but any PC that is first can play Ruins. AFAIK he posts to the Yahoo! Living Greyhawk list but not here. IIRC that's where I saw his post.

Mike
LGMoses
06-01-07, 02:22 AM So... I'm confused. Have they released the first adventure in Greyhawk Ruins yet or not?
King Kashue
06-01-07, 03:44 AM So... I'm confused. Have they released the first adventure in Greyhawk Ruins yet or not?

No...It's scheduled for a GenCon Indy release.
Mithreinmaethor
06-01-07, 03:42 PM Well if they would release the document prior to a week or 2 before Gencon it would be nice. There are a lot of people that are waiting to peruse it before deciding if they will play a character from Greyhawk or not.
Mithreinmaethor
06-05-07, 06:35 PM So any word on the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook and its status ?
bertman4
06-06-07, 01:04 PM So any word on the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook and its status ?

According to WotC's website, it's at the printers.

Bertman
TetsujinOni
06-06-07, 01:07 PM Not Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, the Greyhawk Ruins Campaign Sourcebook, the equivalent of the Bright Sands sourcebook, but for the new plot arc.
pedr
06-06-07, 01:27 PM Sometime in July, according to Chris Tulach in last night's chat.

His answer to the question I posted to start this thread was: Wait for the sourcebook, it'll tell you everything; anything you hear beforehand (including, by implication, things posted on the LG website) is subject to change.

So no confusion, per se, anymore. Just knowledge we're in limbo (known unknowns, rather than unknown knowns? </Rumsfeld>)
JJeff
06-06-07, 09:11 PM I saw a playtest for the module posted on OnlineGameDay, so it is kinda finshed and undergoing fine tuning.... There was a small tidbit released there too, although I don't know if it will be at the final release.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pedr 05-16-07, 03:24 AM	Would it be possible to get a definitive statement about whether previously-played first-level characters can play CGR-1? Locally we have a number of players with existing characters they'd like to consider playing in that arc, but are currently unsure whether that will be possible. If it is possible, they'll not play them in other modules in order to keep them under 2nd level. If it isn't possible, they might want to play them in those modules! The initial information was that existing characters could play CGR. The FAQ type document subsequently seemed to change that to a rule that only brand new characters could play CGR-1, but yesterday's update of summer Core releases listed the older wording permitting existing characters to play. Clarification would be very helpful indeed!
Wraith235 05-17-07, 12:54 AM	I also have a question about this mod in reguards to the Snow Elf Campaign Card .... if you make a new Snow elf for Castle Greyhawk can you choose Greyhawk as the Snow Elfs Home Region (one of the bonus's to playing a New char Specifically for These Mods)
Redfist 05-17-07, 01:48 AM	I also have a question about this mod in reguards to the Snow Elf Campaign Card .... if you make a new Snow elf for Castle Greyhawk can you choose Greyhawk as the Snow Elfs Home Region (one of the bonus's to playing a New char Specifically for These Mods) The snow elf card itself answers the question. "You may take the Crystalmist Mountains as your home region. You cannot change your home region. This card unlocks the snow elf subrace from Frostburn." etc. So, snow elfs MUST be from "Crystalmist Mountains" and never change their home region. You also need to bring that card whenever you play your snow elf as it counts as one of your cards-in-play.
Wraith235 05-17-07, 01:59 AM	The snow elf card itself answers the question. "You may take the Crystalmist Mountains as your home region. You cannot change your home region. This card unlocks the snow elf subrace from Frostburn." etc. So, snow elfs MUST be from "Crystalmist Mountains" and never change their home region. You also need to bring that card whenever you play your snow elf as it counts as one of your cards-in-play. tho its not "Changing" the home region thats why all I'm looking for is some clarification....since the Quote from the announcment is If you create a new character for the arc, you can choose the Domain of Greyhawk as your home region...... and more specifically since there are so many questions Reguarding how things have been written since the announcment do I think I'll be able to Try to play this char thru these mods ...Probably not since my group is hijacking me to run them ....I'm Mainly asking for some sort of Clarification for others out there and if I was able to play ... I would have no problem with the extra TU Costs for not being Greyhawk regions and noone has been extremely forthcomming with answers to the questions this Card brings up
Redfist 05-17-07, 02:08 AM	I believe Britt answered it at some point because someone pointed out "may" versus "must" on the card. I don't remember which thread he said it in, but he was pretty clear that Snow Elves start with Crystalmist Mountains as their home region and can never change it.
Wraith235 05-17-07, 02:13 AM	his Quote was The intent of the card was "must", not "may". I will discuss it with the others and figure out how to handle the card. and thats Cool .... all I'm asking is about the 1 Line Addition to Greyhawk Ruins of : If you create a new character for the arc, you can choose the Domain of Greyhawk as your home region we all know that 1 Word can Change the entire Scope of a Ruling ... and which Ruling Trumps the other .... it can be very confusing ... thats why I'm hoping for some Clarification (Personally I could care less either way but I know I'm gonna have munchkiney players try to pull this on me so I'd prefer to be prepared)
Shieldhart91 05-21-07, 12:43 AM	As Britt said- if you play a Snow Elf, it MUST be in the Crystalmist Mountains. 'Nuff said- there isn't a whole lot of argument about that. As for the CGR- I'd just go with the most recent ruling.
qstor 05-21-07, 07:26 PM	IIRC one of the Circle members clarified that a Greyhawk Ruins PC doesn't have to be on AR #1, however if the PC does start the Ruins arc with AR#1, it can have the Domain of Greyhawk as its home region and access to Greyhawk regional feats and 'metaorgs' that's what I "get" from the wording at the bottom of this page: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgad/20070227a Mike
pedr 05-21-07, 07:51 PM	Thanks for that, Mike ... but from that document (dated Feb 27 07) you get: Q: Why is the arc only open to new characters? Starting a new character with the Domain of Greyhawk as home region allows the player to better immerse himself in the rich setting that is Greyhawk City and Q: What happens if my character dies? Can I play subsequent parts of the series? Yes, you can play subsequent parts of the series if your first character dies. Simply make a new character but include your previous character’s AR for the first Greyhawk Ruins adventure as the first AR in your new character’s stack.(emphasis mine) Which strongly suggests/implies/assumes that you can only use brand new characters. The May Core update said this: Domain of Greyhawk Residency Only new or 1st-level characters can play in Greyhawk Ruins. (That is the AR for the first adventure must appear in your stack before you reach 2nd-level). If you create a new character for the arc, you can choose the Domain of Greyhawk as your home region. But I think that's just a copy/paste of the original announcement. Hence the confusion. I'd love to be able to tell the local group that they can start characters before September and play two modules with them (particularly as there's going to be a Core intro in the July retail kit, apparently) but I'm not convinced, so would really appreciate an official announcement!
Wraith235 05-22-07, 03:47 AM	and thats why I wonder how that relates to the Snow Elf campaign Card .... if its an AR Award then it is 100% Self explanatory ...the "You cannot Change your home Region" would stay in effect ... however if it is pre Creation that you get the Greyhawk Region.... hopefully Britt can Throw us a bone here so that us GM's whos payers try to pull this on us can have a reason and explanation as to why not
qstor 05-27-07, 06:26 PM	but I'm not convinced, so would really appreciate an official announcement! IIRC one of the Circle member stated somewhere what I mentioned but I can't find it online. MIke
Britt 05-27-07, 07:07 PM	The latest information I have is that you have to start Greyhawk Ruins at first level, not as your first adventure. With the current rules, you would not be able to have a Snow Elf with Greyhawk as their home region. I will talk to the others about it again, but I don't really think that will change. If it does, it would be in a Dispel Confusion.
pedr 05-27-07, 07:21 PM	Thanks for the info, Britt. Can you just confirm that this is a change from the Feb 27th document which said that the first AR of a character playing a CGR module had to be for CGR-1 ?
Britt 05-27-07, 11:07 PM	All I can say until something becomes official is that that is the latest I have seen on works in progress.
WotC_Tulach 05-28-07, 03:17 AM	Thanks for the info, Britt. Can you just confirm that this is a change from the Feb 27th document which said that the first AR of a character playing a CGR module had to be for CGR-1 ? Do keep in mind that until the campaign documents are officially available, anything concerning Greyhawk Ruins is subject to change.
pedr 05-28-07, 06:29 AM	Yes, that's what I've been advising people. The trouble is that two categories of players are in a quandry: those with 1st level characters uncertain whether to save them for CGR or play them and get them to 2nd level - this is not worth it if they won't be able to play existing characters anyway; and players with a new character concept wanting to play an intro module or similar, and uncertain whether doing that would mean they'd have to make another 1st level character for CGR-1. I understand this might not actually have been decided yet, but it would be useful to have the information soon. My preference would be for greater freedom, i.e. to allow any character with <1000 XP to play CGR-1.
qstor 05-28-07, 09:20 PM	I understand this might not actually have been decided yet, but it would be useful to have the information soon. My preference would be for greater freedom, i.e. to allow any character with <1000 XP to play CGR-1. I think it was Creighton that mentioned AR1 for Greyhawk as the home region and access to special rules options but any PC that is first can play Ruins. AFAIK he posts to the Yahoo! Living Greyhawk list but not here. IIRC that's where I saw his post. Mike
LGMoses 06-01-07, 02:22 AM	So... I'm confused. Have they released the first adventure in Greyhawk Ruins yet or not?
King Kashue 06-01-07, 03:44 AM	So... I'm confused. Have they released the first adventure in Greyhawk Ruins yet or not? No...It's scheduled for a GenCon Indy release.
Mithreinmaethor 06-01-07, 03:42 PM	Well if they would release the document prior to a week or 2 before Gencon it would be nice. There are a lot of people that are waiting to peruse it before deciding if they will play a character from Greyhawk or not.
Mithreinmaethor 06-05-07, 06:35 PM	So any word on the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook and its status ?
bertman4 06-06-07, 01:04 PM	So any word on the Greyhawk Ruins sourcebook and its status ? According to WotC's website, it's at the printers. Bertman
TetsujinOni 06-06-07, 01:07 PM	Not Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, the Greyhawk Ruins Campaign Sourcebook, the equivalent of the Bright Sands sourcebook, but for the new plot arc.
pedr 06-06-07, 01:27 PM	Sometime in July, according to Chris Tulach in last night's chat. His answer to the question I posted to start this thread was: Wait for the sourcebook, it'll tell you everything; anything you hear beforehand (including, by implication, things posted on the LG website) is subject to change. So no confusion, per se, anymore. Just knowledge we're in limbo (known unknowns, rather than unknown knowns? </Rumsfeld>)
JJeff 06-06-07, 09:11 PM	I saw a playtest for the module posted on OnlineGameDay, so it is kinda finshed and undergoing fine tuning.... There was a small tidbit released there too, although I don't know if it will be at the final release.