Post/Author/DateTime	Post
clannagh 07-23-07, 10:12 PM	Presumably most people by now have the new sourcebook. http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/lggr_grs_v1-0.zip The bit that interests me the most is the new alternate class feature options.
Mommy was an Orc 07-23-07, 11:55 PM	Presumably most people by now have the new sourcebook. http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/lggr_grs_v1-0.zip The bit that interests me the most is the new alternate class feature options. Yeah...the amazing thing was that they gave my two potential builds each a big power up. I'm either a Domain Spontaneity Cleric(who no longer needs Extra Turning) who gives up the Trickery domain class feature(oh, no) for spontaneous Restorations or I'm playing a Rogue 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 10 who does half damage with Sneak to anyone.
_metz_ 07-24-07, 12:56 AM	There are some very interesting abilities opened up, yes. I think a lot of people will be looking long and hard at their greyhawk ruins characters now.
copper_wyrmling 07-24-07, 03:06 AM	I need to get a copy of Dungeonscape. I strongly suspect that I'll feel jealous on behalf of my existing PCs ;) (Metamagic Specialist and Eclectic Learning, mmm... and I want to see what Trapkiller and Trap Expert do.) The higher affiliation levels also seem very powerful - regain lost access four times / year? Every fourth adventure, borrow any item from the DMG costing 30k or less? No regional metaorg I'm aware of offers remotely comparable benefits. Then again, the higher tiers do seem rather difficult to attain.
lseelba 07-24-07, 03:27 AM	I'm still digesting it. I wasn't expecting it to be this...big!
Frumpkis 07-24-07, 05:03 AM	I'm still digesting it. I wasn't expecting it to be this...big! Ditto.
wangka 07-24-07, 11:21 AM	Even for characters that never wind up playing Ruins, it seems you can access quite a few alternate class features at level 1 by choosing the Greyhawk region and then just play them normally and let their region lapse at level 2. Pretty cool.
TetsujinOni 07-24-07, 12:06 PM	Even for characters that never wind up playing Ruins, it seems you can access quite a few alternate class features at level 1 by choosing the Greyhawk region and then just play them normally and let their region lapse at level 2. Pretty cool. Yeah, not sure if that's quite what they meant for it to do, but... IF it is, wow are there going to be a glut of greyhawk and out builds!
Verenal 07-24-07, 12:11 PM	But if you change your home region to other than Greyhawk, you'd lose access to alternate class features. Doesn't that mean you can't have them any more?
LachlarlanIII 07-24-07, 12:24 PM	The higher affiliation levels also seem very powerful - regain lost access four times / year? Every fourth adventure, borrow any item from the DMG costing 30k or less? No regional metaorg I'm aware of offers remotely comparable benefits. Then again, the higher tiers do seem rather difficult to attain. Unless you retain your points from the previous year, some of them aren't even attainable. Assuming all points stack and points/year don't carry over to the next year, a 15th level wizard who is a member of the Guild of Wizardry can only ever attain a 28 affiliation score.
KarmaInferno 07-24-07, 12:27 PM	But if you change your home region to other than Greyhawk, you'd lose access to alternate class features. Doesn't that mean you can't have them any more? I don't think so. After all, if you normally gain access to any other thing in LG, "buy" it or otherwise obtain it for your character, and then lose access, you don't lose the thing, just the access. Like getting adventure access to a NONC item. Three adventures later, you lose the access, but if you bought the item before then you keep it. You just cant buy any more. -karma
Umbra_Kaitou 07-24-07, 12:45 PM	the access options sounds pretty cool the idea of invisible spell on a warmage just sounds fun to me, but i'm slightly crazy. I'm now realllly wishing i had my copy of PHB2 on me the find out what eclectic learner does.
Samwise 07-24-07, 12:50 PM	The higher affiliation levels also seem very powerful - regain lost access four times / year? Every fourth adventure, borrow any item from the DMG costing 30k or less? No regional metaorg I'm aware of offers remotely comparable benefits. Then again, the higher tiers do seem rather difficult to attain. Those are actually some of the weaker benefits I could find for highest level affiliation ranks. Look in the PHB II. Most are them are completely unsuitable for LG. (Having a swarm of escorts, getting free audiences with people, or free feats in one of the sample affiliations.) As for wizards reaching that level, unless I missed something in the design rules, those points carry over. You simply can't gain more by those specific acts in a year than what is listed. You can gain those points per year, for multiple years. Also note that members are subject to losing points for now contributing. So hopefully you will find something new to share on a regular basis. ;) Sam Weiss Core Reviewer and Affiliation Author
Shaudius 07-24-07, 12:54 PM	As far as its been clarified for me by the authors of the sourcebook(but not in an official answer) the points dont stack for the ranks but the points/year do carry over to the next year. Unless you retain your points from the previous year, some of them aren't even attainable. Assuming all points stack and points/year don't carry over to the next year, a 15th level wizard who is a member of the Guild of Wizardry can only ever attain a 28 affiliation score.
clannagh 07-24-07, 08:17 PM	But if you change your home region to other than Greyhawk, you'd lose access to alternate class features. Doesn't that mean you can't have them any more? I think with Bright Sands if you took advantage of an access then moved you still have the feat etc but you do not have any further access to take more.
Donald_Cannith 07-25-07, 01:27 AM	Something I am curious at, they tal kabut Zagyg all thorughout the history part but he is not one of the Deities allowed in the Religious organizations.Reasons why? I mena with his greyhawk specific-ness i expected him to be allowed. This effects my Divine pRankster build, as I may now be investing pointsin being a merchant or a thieves guild member now.
Samwise 07-25-07, 01:40 AM	Because Zagyg doesn't have an organized temple in the City of Greyhawk. Also, in the city, there is an issue about the mortal Zagig Yragerne compared to the divine Zagyg. People tend to have rather ambivalent attitudes about the legendary Lord Mayor.
CdrcJsn 07-25-07, 02:43 AM	Those are actually some of the weaker benefits I could find for highest level affiliation ranks. Look in the PHB II. Most are them are completely unsuitable for LG. (Having a swarm of escorts, getting free audiences with people, or free feats in one of the sample affiliations.) My only gripe about the affiliations is that they give benefits beyond what regional metaorgs can give. Not a major complaint, just a little quibble.
copper_wyrmling 07-25-07, 06:10 AM	Those are actually some of the weaker benefits I could find for highest level affiliation ranks. Look in the PHB II. Most are them are completely unsuitable for LG. (Having a swarm of escorts, getting free audiences with people, or free feats in one of the sample affiliations.) Sure - I was thinking of them in the context of LG, and thus comparing them to regional metaorgs (many of which are now written up as affiliations), not the PHB2 sample affiliations, which I agree can be kinda crazy. Like CdrcJsn said, though, it's not a major complaint.
vvincent 07-25-07, 02:27 PM	Were I you - I would not plan on this particular loophole existing much longer. Apparently Creighton has a great belief that players will not abuse the intent of the rules in this manner. Fortunately, this specific issue has reached the ears of the Circle and Triad, so I foresee provisions will be made against this type of behavior. I think you'll be better off making a Greyhawk region character and then *sticking* with the region. Less chance of getting 'nerfed' by any subsequent corrections to the Ruins document. Vernon L. Vincent Even for characters that never wind up playing Ruins, it seems you can access quite a few alternate class features at level 1 by choosing the Greyhawk region and then just play them normally and let their region lapse at level 2. Pretty cool.
gomeztoo 07-25-07, 02:55 PM	Because Zagyg doesn't have an organized temple in the City of Greyhawk. The only temple to Zagyg in the Flanaess that I know off (town of Folly exempted), is in Twilight Falls in the viscounty of Verbobonc.
wangka 07-25-07, 04:08 PM	Were I you - I would not plan on this particular loophole existing much longer... Vernon L. Vincent I think that's a good idea - maybe a provision that you have to train out of or lose the alternative class feature you picked up if you never play a Ruins adventure and your character region reverts.
Donald_Cannith 07-25-07, 08:39 PM	shrugs. oh well I will just join the Merchants guild and aspire to one day to make it to the Directing oligarchy..... and run the city just like zagyg
Morgen 07-25-07, 11:47 PM	Hmmm, somehow I'm thinking I can't get a kobold card and then use it to make a character for the Ruin's campaign...
bitznarf 07-25-07, 11:59 PM	Don't see why not Morgen.
CdrcJsn 07-26-07, 01:22 AM	Because a Kobold in Greyhawk with the alternate abilities presented in both the card and the new campaign would be too uber for words and cause a rift in the space time continuum. We like our continuum and don't want any rifts in it.
bitznarf 07-26-07, 10:09 AM	Bah. Kobolds start off with such a disadvantage that they need all the help they can get. So an uber kobold is a roughly average PC :P
Hariman 07-28-07, 07:26 PM	Bah. Kobolds start off with such a disadvantage that they need all the help they can get. So an uber kobold is a roughly average PC :P Unless you play a cleric or a druid x/beastmaster 1. A kobold Ranger/beastmaster 1 with the alternate ranger ability (A Dire Weasel at ranger level -3) would be fearsome too. Kobold Dracolexis will gain some great abilities and Power Word spells at one level lower than normal. Kobold Rogues can find and disarm traps better than anyone AND they'd be able to damage anything with sneak attacks. Kobold Sorcerers with Practical Metamagic and Metamagic Specialist AND metamagic School Focus will be tossing +0 empowers and +1 Maximizes! Or you could go the Draconic route and get draconic heritage for free, letting you use the human trick of "Draconic Heritage + Draconic Breath" at first level. I might make my Kobold my Ruins character. Heaven knows he won't make it in Keoland or the Sheldomar Valley unless he's got some major disguise skills!
Ramacass 07-30-07, 03:51 AM	[QUOTE=Hariman;13224527]Kobold Rogues can find and disarm traps better than anyone AND they'd be able to damage anything with sneak attacks. [QUOTE] how can a kobold rogue damage everything with a sneak attack? I'm not to familiar with the new options opened up
ShinAkuma2 07-30-07, 01:17 PM	One of the alternate class features allows for 1/2 Sneak Attack damage on things that are normally immune, iirc.
Hariman 08-06-07, 08:21 PM	One of the alternate class features allows for 1/2 Sneak Attack damage on things that are normally immune, iirc. Although, technically, that 1/2 damage ability is a Greyhawk Ruins ability, so any Ruins Rogue could do it easily.