Heraldry [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Heraldry [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LGMoses
02-16-07, 01:38 AM does neone know a site to go to to learn the basics of heraldry so i can design a coat of arms for my character?
clannagh
02-16-07, 04:32 AM Actually the wikipedia article gives most of the basics;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry
Arvagor
02-16-07, 08:32 AM Many of the Wikipedia Greyhawk articles detailing a specific region or group also have the corresponding coat of arms described in heraldic terms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realms_of_the_Flanaess

I also regularly reference:
http://www.heraldica.org/ (and specifically http://www.heraldica.org/topics/glossary/atlas.htm)
http://www.rarebooks.nd.edu/digital/heraldry/index.html
http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/index.htm (very extensive if you're looking for a particular term
tvknight415
02-16-07, 09:05 AM Go the Society for Creative Anachronism's herladry page. They have some really useful articles.

http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html

Eric
Gallaway
03-02-07, 01:23 AM hmmm ...

a badger rampant vert, armed and langued sable
Arvagor
03-02-07, 08:28 PM a badger rampant vert, armed and langued sableYou've described the charge, but you haven't described the field (which always comes first)
cetiken
03-02-07, 08:54 PM So you run around with a distinctive set of iconography?

Isn't that a bit like painting a giant bullseye on your shield?
Gallaway
03-02-07, 09:13 PM So you run around with a distinctive set of iconography?

Isn't that a bit like painting a giant bullseye on your shield?

I think historically it was interpreted as " do not kill me I am rich and noble and worth a lot of money if you ransom me instead".
LGMoses
03-03-07, 12:56 AM I think historically it was interpreted as " do not kill me I am rich and noble and worth a lot of money if you ransom me instead".

Bingo! + its cool and everyone knows who you are.
UMiskatonic
03-03-07, 10:57 AM Yeah, and it overcomes the difficulty of:

"Stick close to Lord Pholor, and you'll be fine"
"Which one is he?"
"He's the one in full plate armor"
"We're all wearing full plate armor, sir"
cetiken
03-03-07, 11:13 PM My thought was just about signs like the following.

"Wanted for crimes against [Scarlet Brotherhood/ City of Greyhawk/ Lord Iuz]
is 'Lord' Pholor. He wears full plate and his shield bears the emblem of three trees with a dove flying over the center tree and silver stars above each of the others. 10000GP will be paid for the delivery of his entire body either dead or alive."
Gallaway
03-04-07, 06:56 PM My thought was just about signs like the following.

"Wanted for crimes against [Scarlet Brotherhood/ City of Greyhawk/ Lord Iuz]
is 'Lord' Pholor. He wears full plate and his shield bears the emblem of three trees with a dove flying over the center tree and silver stars above each of the others. 10000GP will be paid for the delivery of his entire body either dead or alive."

Well if you are a Lord its rather hard to disguise who you are - heraldry or not.
Arvagor
03-04-07, 07:48 PM a badger rampant vert, armed and langued sable

Trying to get back on topic :) -- What were you actually going for Gallaway? A black badger on a field of green? A green badger with black tongue, teeth and claws (in which case, we don't know the field)?
Gallaway
03-04-07, 10:16 PM Trying to get back on topic :) -- What were you actually going for Gallaway? A black badger on a field of green? A green badger with black tongue, teeth and claws (in which case, we don't know the field)?

Actually a nasty big Black badger up on its hind legs about to attack something contasted with a green background was sorta the idea.
Arvagor
03-04-07, 10:56 PM Actually a nasty big Black badger up on its hind legs about to attack something contasted with a green background was sorta the idea.
Ah... :) Well then, that would be:

Vert, a badger rampant sable, armed and langued of the same

There are two items, though, which should be pointed out. First, as a general rule, colors should not be placed upon colors, nor metals laid on metals, nor furs laid on furs. Despite sable being a fur in real life, as far as tinctures are concerned, it is a color (black), and so should not be laid upon another color (green). Second, unless the teeth and claws ("armed"), and tongue ("langued") are a different color from the animal they are "attached" to, they are usually not described (so the above would be Vert, a badger rampant sable)
Gallaway
03-05-07, 02:10 AM Ah... :) Well then, that would be:

Vert, a badger rampant sable, armed and langued of the same

There are two items, though, which should be pointed out. First, as a general rule, colors should not be placed upon colors, nor metals laid on metals, nor furs laid on furs. Despite sable being a fur in real life, as far as tinctures are concerned, it is a color (black), and so should not be laid upon another color (green). Second, unless the teeth and claws ("armed"), and tongue ("langued") are a different color from the animal they are "attached" to, they are usually not described (so the above would be Vert, a badger rampant sable)

Ok i get it :)
Lupo
03-05-07, 07:41 AM has anyone come up with a set of coat of arms for all those who are honored ladies and lords of tenh??

the old coat of arms is or, a murrey rune (or abstracted man, i am not sure what it is:), found in in the world of greyhawk boxed set)

any ideas?

i think every coat of arms should show the tenh coat of arms in the upper right corner, leaving the rest for individual design ;)

ciao

martin m.
Arvagor
03-05-07, 08:30 AM i think every coat of arms should show the tenh coat of arms in the upper right corner, leaving the rest for individual design ;)
You're referring to a canton (I think), which is a common way of incorporating one coat of arms into another. However, a canton is always borne in the dexter chief (upper left). Charges can be placed in that position, but generally speaking, they are blazoned as if appearing on the field itself.

Compare the city of Safeton's device -- Vair, a canton paly of six sable and or -- with Sunndi's: Argent, on a bend purpure three suns radiated or; in sinister chief a fret couped sable (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/5037/atlas/heraldry.html)

BTW, where did you see it referred to as a "murrey" rune? I've looked all over for a description of what that device is (it's not in the '83 boxed set, that I can find...)
Lupo
03-05-07, 09:41 AM You're referring to a canton (I think), which is a common way of incorporating one coat of arms into another. However, a canton is always borne in the dexter chief (upper left). Charges can be placed in that position, but generally speaking, they are blazoned as if appearing on the field itself.

Compare the city of Safeton's device -- Vair, a canton paly of six sable and or -- with Sunndi's: Argent, on a bend purpure three suns radiated or; in sinister chief a fret couped sable (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/5037/atlas/heraldry.html)

BTW, where did you see it referred to as a "murrey" rune? I've looked all over for a description of what that device is (it's not in the '83 boxed set, that I can find...)

ok, the thing with the switching of left and right got me :)

"murrey" refers to the color, as it isn't a real red or purple :)

it somehow reminds me of some abstracted celtic human depictions or the ones found in neolithic sites in turkey, but i am not suer, it isn't one of the greyhawk runes either.

ciao

martin m.
Arvagor
03-05-07, 07:41 PM "murrey" refers to the color, as it isn't a real red or purple :)I think it's sufficiently red to be considered "red" (gules) for the purposes of heraldry. I suppose it could also be sanguine (dark red) or tenné (orange), but I tend to avoid those two when I'm describing a particular coat-of-arms, as they are not traditionally used (Edit: I see that some of the heraldic dictionaries list "murrey" as another name for "sanguine", so in either case, we both meant "red" ;))

it somehow reminds me of some abstracted celtic human depictions or the ones found in neolithic sites in turkey, but i am not suer, it isn't one of the greyhawk runes either.I agree on the Celtic observation; the abstract style seems to fit the Flan background. And the device on the coat-of-arms for the city of Grosskopf, in the Bandit Kingdoms, is similarly abstract (actually makes sense that they would be similar, given the number of Flan in the vicinity of Grosskopf). Neith symbol matches any of the more abstract traditional heraldic devices, either... :thinks:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LGMoses 02-16-07, 01:38 AM	does neone know a site to go to to learn the basics of heraldry so i can design a coat of arms for my character?
clannagh 02-16-07, 04:32 AM	Actually the wikipedia article gives most of the basics; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry
Arvagor 02-16-07, 08:32 AM	Many of the Wikipedia Greyhawk articles detailing a specific region or group also have the corresponding coat of arms described in heraldic terms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realms_of_the_Flanaess I also regularly reference: http://www.heraldica.org/ (and specifically http://www.heraldica.org/topics/glossary/atlas.htm) http://www.rarebooks.nd.edu/digital/heraldry/index.html http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/index.htm (very extensive if you're looking for a particular term
tvknight415 02-16-07, 09:05 AM	Go the Society for Creative Anachronism's herladry page. They have some really useful articles. http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/education.html Eric
Gallaway 03-02-07, 01:23 AM	hmmm ... a badger rampant vert, armed and langued sable
Arvagor 03-02-07, 08:28 PM	a badger rampant vert, armed and langued sableYou've described the charge, but you haven't described the field (which always comes first)
cetiken 03-02-07, 08:54 PM	So you run around with a distinctive set of iconography? Isn't that a bit like painting a giant bullseye on your shield?
Gallaway 03-02-07, 09:13 PM	So you run around with a distinctive set of iconography? Isn't that a bit like painting a giant bullseye on your shield? I think historically it was interpreted as " do not kill me I am rich and noble and worth a lot of money if you ransom me instead".
LGMoses 03-03-07, 12:56 AM	I think historically it was interpreted as " do not kill me I am rich and noble and worth a lot of money if you ransom me instead". Bingo! + its cool and everyone knows who you are.
UMiskatonic 03-03-07, 10:57 AM	Yeah, and it overcomes the difficulty of: "Stick close to Lord Pholor, and you'll be fine" "Which one is he?" "He's the one in full plate armor" "We're all wearing full plate armor, sir"
cetiken 03-03-07, 11:13 PM	My thought was just about signs like the following. "Wanted for crimes against [Scarlet Brotherhood/ City of Greyhawk/ Lord Iuz] is 'Lord' Pholor. He wears full plate and his shield bears the emblem of three trees with a dove flying over the center tree and silver stars above each of the others. 10000GP will be paid for the delivery of his entire body either dead or alive."
Gallaway 03-04-07, 06:56 PM	My thought was just about signs like the following. "Wanted for crimes against [Scarlet Brotherhood/ City of Greyhawk/ Lord Iuz] is 'Lord' Pholor. He wears full plate and his shield bears the emblem of three trees with a dove flying over the center tree and silver stars above each of the others. 10000GP will be paid for the delivery of his entire body either dead or alive." Well if you are a Lord its rather hard to disguise who you are - heraldry or not.
Arvagor 03-04-07, 07:48 PM	a badger rampant vert, armed and langued sable Trying to get back on topic :) -- What were you actually going for Gallaway? A black badger on a field of green? A green badger with black tongue, teeth and claws (in which case, we don't know the field)?
Gallaway 03-04-07, 10:16 PM	Trying to get back on topic :) -- What were you actually going for Gallaway? A black badger on a field of green? A green badger with black tongue, teeth and claws (in which case, we don't know the field)? Actually a nasty big Black badger up on its hind legs about to attack something contasted with a green background was sorta the idea.
Arvagor 03-04-07, 10:56 PM	Actually a nasty big Black badger up on its hind legs about to attack something contasted with a green background was sorta the idea. Ah... :) Well then, that would be: Vert, a badger rampant sable, armed and langued of the same There are two items, though, which should be pointed out. First, as a general rule, colors should not be placed upon colors, nor metals laid on metals, nor furs laid on furs. Despite sable being a fur in real life, as far as tinctures are concerned, it is a color (black), and so should not be laid upon another color (green). Second, unless the teeth and claws ("armed"), and tongue ("langued") are a different color from the animal they are "attached" to, they are usually not described (so the above would be Vert, a badger rampant sable)
Gallaway 03-05-07, 02:10 AM	Ah... :) Well then, that would be: Vert, a badger rampant sable, armed and langued of the same There are two items, though, which should be pointed out. First, as a general rule, colors should not be placed upon colors, nor metals laid on metals, nor furs laid on furs. Despite sable being a fur in real life, as far as tinctures are concerned, it is a color (black), and so should not be laid upon another color (green). Second, unless the teeth and claws ("armed"), and tongue ("langued") are a different color from the animal they are "attached" to, they are usually not described (so the above would be Vert, a badger rampant sable) Ok i get it :)
Lupo 03-05-07, 07:41 AM	has anyone come up with a set of coat of arms for all those who are honored ladies and lords of tenh?? the old coat of arms is or, a murrey rune (or abstracted man, i am not sure what it is:), found in in the world of greyhawk boxed set) any ideas? i think every coat of arms should show the tenh coat of arms in the upper right corner, leaving the rest for individual design ;) ciao martin m.
Arvagor 03-05-07, 08:30 AM	i think every coat of arms should show the tenh coat of arms in the upper right corner, leaving the rest for individual design ;) You're referring to a canton (I think), which is a common way of incorporating one coat of arms into another. However, a canton is always borne in the dexter chief (upper left). Charges can be placed in that position, but generally speaking, they are blazoned as if appearing on the field itself. Compare the city of Safeton's device -- Vair, a canton paly of six sable and or -- with Sunndi's: Argent, on a bend purpure three suns radiated or; in sinister chief a fret couped sable (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/5037/atlas/heraldry.html) BTW, where did you see it referred to as a "murrey" rune? I've looked all over for a description of what that device is (it's not in the '83 boxed set, that I can find...)
Lupo 03-05-07, 09:41 AM	You're referring to a canton (I think), which is a common way of incorporating one coat of arms into another. However, a canton is always borne in the dexter chief (upper left). Charges can be placed in that position, but generally speaking, they are blazoned as if appearing on the field itself. Compare the city of Safeton's device -- Vair, a canton paly of six sable and or -- with Sunndi's: Argent, on a bend purpure three suns radiated or; in sinister chief a fret couped sable (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/5037/atlas/heraldry.html) BTW, where did you see it referred to as a "murrey" rune? I've looked all over for a description of what that device is (it's not in the '83 boxed set, that I can find...) ok, the thing with the switching of left and right got me :) "murrey" refers to the color, as it isn't a real red or purple :) it somehow reminds me of some abstracted celtic human depictions or the ones found in neolithic sites in turkey, but i am not suer, it isn't one of the greyhawk runes either. ciao martin m.
Arvagor 03-05-07, 07:41 PM	"murrey" refers to the color, as it isn't a real red or purple :)I think it's sufficiently red to be considered "red" (gules) for the purposes of heraldry. I suppose it could also be sanguine (dark red) or tenné (orange), but I tend to avoid those two when I'm describing a particular coat-of-arms, as they are not traditionally used (Edit: I see that some of the heraldic dictionaries list "murrey" as another name for "sanguine", so in either case, we both meant "red" ;)) it somehow reminds me of some abstracted celtic human depictions or the ones found in neolithic sites in turkey, but i am not suer, it isn't one of the greyhawk runes either.I agree on the Celtic observation; the abstract style seems to fit the Flan background. And the device on the coat-of-arms for the city of Grosskopf, in the Bandit Kingdoms, is similarly abstract (actually makes sense that they would be similar, given the number of Flan in the vicinity of Grosskopf). Neith symbol matches any of the more abstract traditional heraldic devices, either... :thinks: