Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrochaos 04-18-06, 06:11 PM	Does anyone play this class other than just a splash or to? I love playing this class in home games, but it doesn't seem to stack up in LG. Any good builds to use this class? I thought about combining it with Bard, but I haven't come up with a good way to do this. Any thoughts on the Hexblade class?
Nerax 04-19-06, 01:44 AM	Being that it is a CHA class it mixes well with that side of the character spectrum. I am not overly familiar with the class but Cursing as a free action and I believe at 4th they recieve SR. Kinda cool stuff. The only experience I have with the class would be running around with a LN Human Marshal/Favored Soul/Hexblade of Pholtus. Oh yes, he curses you in the name of Pholtus! :evillaugh :devil: I belive he is eventually trying for the Hospitalar PrC.
Necrochaos 04-19-06, 06:43 AM	How does the favored soul work into your build? Are you dipping into it just for the first level of spells?
Sieylianna 04-19-06, 08:00 AM	How does the favored soul work into your build? Are you dipping into it just for the first level of spells? He's probably taking 3 or 4 (forget which it is) levels for mettle (combined with the favored soul's good saving throws). Ed
rutrow424 04-19-06, 12:58 PM	Hexblade is a natural lead-in to Dragon Disciple, as a Spontaneous Arcane casting class with d10 HD. The 2 main down sides are that the Hexblade spell list does not mesh well with what a melee DD build would want and that w/o campaign documentation you have to be LN alignment (not too bad, but limiting). Also, since hexblades get most of the relevant social skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate; Sense Motive I don't remember), a hexblade can be the "face" PC for players who don't like the squishiness of a bard or rogue. But on the whole you are right - they are good for home games, but on the low end of LG power curve.
Karlindel 04-19-06, 05:44 PM	Hexblade Dragon Disciple is the only decent use of the Hexblade I've seen. Also taking 3 levels to gain mettle as a spiked chain fighter. As far as a single class Hexblade, I don't think the class is worth it.
PaulH 04-19-06, 07:12 PM	Hi Hexblade 1/Warmage 6/Eldritch Knight? As above, bu 2 lvls Hexblade for Arcane Resistance (Cha bonus to spells/spell like effects). Both Hexblades/Warmages can cast spells in Lt armour without probs. Cheers Paul H
amnuxoll 04-20-06, 03:03 PM	If you're gonna go straight hexblade you'd have to twink out the curse as much as possible with a high Charisma. I'd look at the Kiai Shout feats too. Alternatively start with a barbarian level so you can take Intimidating Rage in order to keep everything a free action. :AMN:
Lomiat 04-21-06, 01:59 AM	Hexblade's first 3 levels are really good. Also, if you're actually into the general idea of a Paladin but don't want to roleplay Lawful Good, you can try Hexblade as a lesser substitute. Mind you, the Curse isn't the be-all and end-all of Hexblade. My secondary character is a tripper (halberd, not spiked chain--just because) who is currently Bbn1/Ftr2/Hex1/Rog2/Occ2. I've seen similar builds for Monk/Pious templar characters who get slightly better saves, but have to be lawful. With 2 levels of Rogue and 3 levels of Hexblade, my character will have Evasion and Mettle. With 3 levels of Hexblade and 5 levels of Occult Slayer, he'll have a total of +4 to his saves against Magic. And this is with a penalty to his Cha. And even with the -1 Cha, I've managed to successfully curse a couple different things, the freakiest of which was probably the Flying, Raging Barbarian Awakened Octopus.
TWG_Prometheus 04-23-06, 11:12 AM	We have a Hexblade 6 in my area. I can't offer too much advice on exactly how good they are, as I haven't partied with them frequently yet, but there wasn't anything especially wrong with their character. They had plenty of HP at the very least. Personally, even if Hexblades aren't at the 'high' end of the power spectrum, I don't see them as being weak either. They look like a one-class gish build that focuses more on BAB than casting, which you'll see some of in any case. As you rise in levels, you'll also get increasingly powerful curses which could be a major boon.
Ekred 04-28-06, 12:58 AM	I'm doing a Dwarf Hexblade with cha 8. take the +2 vs spells from dwarf and the +1 from arcane resistance. mix in some fighter and go to occult slayer. ends up looking hex 3/Ftr 2/occ slay 5 throw in some street fighter maybe.
kjenks 04-28-06, 08:21 AM	I met a Hexblade 6 in Nyrond who was pretty effective with his curses. He combined them with Intimidate/Demoralize Opponent and another party member who cast debuffing spells so that our opponents were getting some really big penalties.
bkdubs123 01-05-07, 03:04 AM	I just rolled a hexblade about a week ago, and my build is running Fighter 1 Hexblade 4. At first level being a human fighter I took Exotic Proficiency: Net, Weapon focus: Trident and Two Weapon Fighting. Then, at third level (hexblade 2) I grabbed the Net and Trident weapon style feat from Complete Warrior. The net is a potent "debuff" in my character's hands, allowing me to entangle foes and halt their movement away from me. Combined with the Hexblade's Curse I can almost completely negate a foe's ability to do anything. My advice: look into the Net. It is a very good utility weapon and its debilitating function plays right into a Hexblade's strength. Also, in PHB 2, there is a replacement feature for the Hexblade where instead of taking a familiar you get an illusory pet that debuffs adjacent foes with -2 to saves and AC. Very nice. I plan to take the class through several more levels so I can continue to get the full strength of my curses, but I would like to see an expanded spell list, some hexblade tailored feats, and some prestige classes targetted at hexblades. They just aren't a very versatile class. (you have literally no additional options other than the core class.)
Britt 01-05-07, 03:18 AM	While the net is good, I think the trident is sub par and that weapon style feat is one of the worst feats ever written. The way it is phrased, you can only ever use the ability of the feat if you start the round exactly 10' away from your target.
Mithreinmaethor 01-05-07, 04:28 AM	Here is a question. Not trying to break the rules or anything but is there a meta-org out there that gives access to the Suel-archanamach ? I had a great idea for a Hexblade/Suel-archanamach. Then to find out its limited. sheesh :)
budleiser 01-05-07, 05:22 AM	Here is a question. Not trying to break the rules or anything but is there a meta-org out there that gives access to the Suel-archanamach ? I had a great idea for a Hexblade/Suel-archanamach. Then to find out its limited. sheesh :) Gotta LOVE that. I've been discussing how frustrating that is, yet some people don't mind. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=763737 Hexblade Spell list: Wow for someone who doesn't get spells until level 4 that spell list is really really bad. I could be wrong, but I didn't see any spells that sorc/wizard could not get. No Hexblade only spells.
kjenks 01-05-07, 08:39 AM	There are a few hexblade spells that are not from the sorc/wiz list. Cursed Blade is usually assassin only. Invisibility, Swift is usually bard and assassin only. Phantom Threat is usually bard only. I've updated the hexblade spell list with the latest in LG rules and Spell Compendium level changes: http://members.aol.com/kenjenks/lg/
UMiskatonic 01-05-07, 09:20 AM	Hexblade + improved Familiar can make a decent mounted combatant. Remember, familiars have 1/2 your hp. If you have d10 hp and a good con, that could be considerable. I know a dragon disciple whose familiar has more hp than his cleric cohort.
Mommy was an Orc 01-05-07, 09:31 AM	The big problem with it is that they don't really have a strong need for charisma given their major roles(Tank, Light Infantry or Archer). They've got a bunch of minor abilities that like it, but... Then on top of it, they only get light armor proficiency, when only one very minor ability of theirs would mind them wearing full plate. And their bonus feats are about as useless as they come for staying in Hexblade. Finally, they usually have lousy Fort Saves against things frontliners need to have good Fort Saves against. Anyway, you want to dip a class or two if you're playing a pure Hexblade - it adds a lot of extras, especially medium armor proficiency, Rage, bonus feats, weird 'smites', etc...the class just needs things. Once you add just a little extra, they jump back onto the LG power curve. I'd look at dipping the following classes: Marshal 1-3 Barbarian 1 Outcast Champion 2-5 (Half-Elves from Races of the Destiny) Wildrunner 2-6(Half-Elves or Wood Elves from Races of the Wild) - 4 levels is a Free Action Shaken effect, but 2 levels really boosts AC/damage. A friend of mine is playing a Barbarian 1/Hexblade X - seems pretty effective so far - he took Extra Rage and Power Attack, he's got Mithril Full Plate/Mithril Buckler at 4th level - i.e. he's decently strong(18 when Raging), he's got a high enough AC that he's hard to hurt, even when raging, yet charisma is his primary stat.
budleiser 01-05-07, 11:36 AM	Hexblade + improved Familiar can make a decent mounted combatant. Remember, familiars have 1/2 your hp. If you have d10 hp and a good con, that could be considerable. I know a dragon disciple whose familiar has more hp than his cleric cohort. I haven't played a spell caster before so let me ask: How do you a get medium size familiar? Or are you casting enlarge animal every time? I see a list thats available if the master is Huge.
LachlarlanIII 01-05-07, 11:40 AM	I haven't played a spell caster before so let me ask: How do you a get medium size familiar? Or are you casting enlarge animal every time? I see a list thats available if the master is Huge. A 6(7)th level caster with Improved Familiar can get a Hippogryph familiar. Hippogryphs are large creatures.
budleiser 01-05-07, 04:24 PM	A 6(7)th level caster with Improved Familiar can get a Hippogryph familiar. Hippogryphs are large creatures. Quote, table, page number? You said what they can do, but you didn't explain how.
LachlarlanIII 01-05-07, 04:30 PM	Quote, table, page number? You said what they can do, but you didn't explain how. Complete Warrior feats section. I'd be more specific, but I don't have my books currently. As for the legality of the feat: LGCS Pg. 28 places Improved Familiar on the Core feat list.
budleiser 01-05-07, 04:58 PM	Thanks found it page 100 I looked in Complete Arcane, DMG, PHB. I would never have thought to look in complete warrior. The real problem was I found it in the DMG, but its rules were very different. This is really cool. Because of the prerequisites does this mean a straight Hexblade could not take improved familiar until Level 6? At level 3 it would have a feat open, but unable to "acquire new familiar". "Ability to acquire new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficient arcane spellcaster level, and base attack bonus. Aecane spellcaster level refers to the class level, not the level of spells they can cast right? Can you take Hellhound a LE familiar if your a LN hexblade?
budleiser 01-05-07, 05:13 PM	Can you ride a blink dog while its blinking?
LachlarlanIII 01-05-07, 05:23 PM	Thanks found it page 100 I looked in Complete Arcane, DMG, PHB. I would never have thought to look in complete warrior. The real problem was I found it in the DMG, but its rules were very different. This is really cool. Because of the prerequisites does this mean a straight Hexblade could not take improved familiar until Level 6? At level 3 it would have a feat open, but unable to "acquire new familiar". "Ability to acquire new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficient arcane spellcaster level, and base attack bonus. Aecane spellcaster level refers to the class level, not the level of spells they can cast right? Can you take Hellhound a LE familiar if your a LN hexblade? I don't recall the specifics right off the top of my head, but I think you can take the feat at any time, but you can only choose the new familiar when you're of sufficient level to have it. Can you ride a blink dog while its blinking? No would be my answer. If a wizard blinks while a giant is grappling him, does the giant blink too?
Mithreinmaethor 01-05-07, 05:57 PM	Actually if you have a ring of blinking you can ride it when its blinking. No you can not take a Hellhound. The LGCS states that you can not take an evil aligned familiar. And back to my question about the Seul Arcanamach. I am rather new to the LG scene (june this year) but is it the Circle or the Triad that decides upon which limited PRC's are available in their region ? If it is the Circle then I dont see how or why it would be against the rules for them to say which region has access to specific liimited PRC's. Or am I totally off base here ? Wouldnt be the first time a good idea goes down the drain. And maybe if we beg the Suel Arcanamach will be allowed for the new core region of Greyhawk :) cause thats what I am waiting on to make a new character anyhow.
LachlarlanIII 01-05-07, 06:09 PM	I believe the Circle decides what goes in the LGCS, but I think the Triads have final say on what limited classes are available in the region. Ex: In the BK we pretty much can't ask for Wild Mage or Dread Commando. We have to be lucky and gain access through Core mods. In Highfolk you have to get a special mission to become a Dragon Disciple. And so forth.
copper_wyrmling 01-05-07, 07:10 PM	I believe the Circle decides what goes in the LGCS, but I think the Triads have final say on what limited classes are available in the region. Ex: In the BK we pretty much can't ask for Wild Mage or Dread Commando. We have to be lucky and gain access through Core mods. That's correct as far as I know. I've heard a couple of people say that the BK Triad won't give special missions for Wild Mage - any idea why? I'm curious, since I play a Wild Mage...
rockchops 01-05-07, 11:40 PM	I was playing around with the idea of a hexblade character because the character concept intrigued me from a role play perspective. I just stumbled upon this thread after setting up what I though was a pretty powerful build. I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me what you think :) first five levels = Hex Blade. (take mage slayer) next four(or five?) = Dragon Disciple (take spiked chain proficiency and focus) next five = Occult Slayer Since Mage slayer kills spellcasting levels, I intended only to use self-buffs like magic weapon, expiditious retreat, or entropic shield. His role becomes a sort of an anti-mage tank. I've also considered dropping something like spike chain in favor medium armor proficiency, and biting the (small) bullet of arcane spell failure.
Morgen 01-06-07, 03:21 AM	The biggest problem with Hexblade honestly is the fact that the spells you gain access to are spells that even outside of LG are mostly useless spells. Combine with the fact that you don't even get them until level 4 make it worse. I could take 3 levels of fighter and a level of sorcerer and get better spells. It's an interesting class but if you look at the other melee caster classes like Paladin (Bless weapon, Bless, CLWs, Lesser Restoration(!)) and Ranger (Longstrider, Resist Energy, Delay Poison) the spell list for 1st level spells is terrible. You don't even get like Endure Elements to help the party out with all those trips into the desert or frozen north. On top of all that, Charisma isn't quite the best stat for a melee class to take. Where classes like Paladin use the charisma for a number of things. CHA to your saves alone is excellent, but when you add in a full list of diplomatic skills and synergy skills (Knowledge Nobility and Royalty, Sense Motive, etc.), turning undead with the feats to use them effectively, and smiting it just seems like Hexblades were seriously underpowered. you still have a (more relaxed) alignment restriction and your main save is will. It's essentially just being gutted for a class you can take that has knowledge arcane as a class skill while still having a +1 BAB and decent hp.
opa 01-06-07, 05:50 AM	mage slayer isn't core..
Iswald 01-06-07, 08:44 AM	The spell list for hexblade isn't all that bad. But, there's not as much synergy between the spells and the hexblades abilities. It's hard to say that alter self, glitterdust, greater invisibility many of the other spells on the list are bad. BTW, there is one hexblade only spell, Hound of Doom. I agree though, that they could have used more hexblade only spells, preferably including several swift spells.
Britt 01-06-07, 02:53 PM	I've heard a couple of people say that the BK Triad won't give special missions for Wild Mage - any idea why? I'm curious, since I play a Wild Mage... Most of the BK Triad and former Triad don't like the flavor of Wild Mage in Greyhawk very much. The cincher was the interaction of Practiced Spellcaster and Wild Mage, though. The arguments with table DMs and the power level it creates are just too much. It's similar to why I try to avoid access to ring of force shield. If there is no clear answer to how it works, I don't want to give access to it.
copper_wyrmling 01-06-07, 03:09 PM	The Mage Slayer feats are in fact Restricted in Greyhawk, so you shouldn't ever see access to them (and if access was mistakenly given, you couldn't take them). Moving on to your regularly scheduled thread derailment... Most of the BK Triad and former Triad don't like the flavor of Wild Mage in Greyhawk very much. The cincher was the interaction of Practiced Spellcaster and Wild Mage, though. The arguments with table DMs and the power level it creates are just too much. It's similar to why I try to avoid access to ring of force shield. If there is no clear answer to how it works, I don't want to give access to it. Britt, you realize this was FAQ'ed, right? Practised Spellcaster helps if you roll a 1 or a 2 on the wild magic dice (in which case you use your normal CL not the reduced CL), not otherwise. My wild mage does not actually have the feat... I don't like the flavor, and I don't consider it to be worth a feat slot to get an extra +1/2 CL on average, when it can't raise your CL higher than it would be otherwise. I'm (selfishly) happy with it being hard to get, it makes my PC more unique ;)
kjenks 01-06-07, 03:15 PM	My Bandit Kingdoms wizard got access to Wild Mage -- gained while playing in the Shield Lands. But the feat and skill prerequisites (Magical Aptitude feat, 4 ranks in Use Magic Device) will prevent me from taking any levels in it for a while, if ever. In the meantime, my wizard is taking levels in Ruathar -- gained while playing in Geoff. Or maybe Dracolexi -- also gained while playing in Geoff. Although he'll never use it, my wizard also has access to the divine prestige class, Contemplative (Joramy -- from a Core, and Heironeous -- from the Shield Lands). (See a pattern there?) The BK does offer access to some prestige classes through meta-orgs. http://www.bandit-kingdoms.net/meta/BKMGv596.pdf
kjenks 01-06-07, 03:17 PM	Britt, you realize this was FAQ'ed, right? Practised Spellcaster helps if you roll a 1 or a 2 on the wild magic dice (in which case you use your normal CL not the reduced CL), not otherwise. Not quite. FAQ === How does Practiced Spellcaster interact with the wild magic class feature of the wild mage (from Complete Arcane)? The –3 penalty and +1d6 bonus to the wild mage’s caster level are applied as a single step in the process of determining the wild mage’s caster level. Since Practiced Spellcaster’s bonus is always applied when it is most beneficial to the character (see previous answer), a wild mage with Practiced Spellcaster would typically apply the wild magic class feature first (subtracting 3 and adding 1d6 to her caster level) and then add the Practiced Spellcaster benefit, up to a maximum value equal to her character level. For example, if a 5th-level wizard/4th-level wild mage with Practiced Spellcaster rolled a 1 on the 1d6 bonus to her caster level, her caster level for that spell would be 9th (base 9th, –3 from wild magic penalty, +1 from wild magic bonus, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster up to a maximum equal to her character level). If she rolled a 6, her caster level would be 12th (base 9th, –3 from wild magic penalty, +6 from wild magic bonus; the Practiced Spellcaster bonus would not apply since it would increase her caster level above her character level). ===
copper_wyrmling 01-06-07, 03:27 PM	Not quite. FAQ === How does Practiced Spellcaster interact with the wild magic class feature of the wild mage (from Complete Arcane)? The –3 penalty and +1d6 bonus to the wild mage’s caster level are applied as a single step in the process of determining the wild mage’s caster level. Since Practiced Spellcaster’s bonus is always applied when it is most beneficial to the character (see previous answer), a wild mage with Practiced Spellcaster would typically apply the wild magic class feature first (subtracting 3 and adding 1d6 to her caster level) and then add the Practiced Spellcaster benefit, up to a maximum value equal to her character level. For example, if a 5th-level wizard/4th-level wild mage with Practiced Spellcaster rolled a 1 on the 1d6 bonus to her caster level, her caster level for that spell would be 9th (base 9th, –3 from wild magic penalty, +1 from wild magic bonus, +4 from Practiced Spellcaster up to a maximum equal to her character level). If she rolled a 6, her caster level would be 12th (base 9th, –3 from wild magic penalty, +6 from wild magic bonus; the Practiced Spellcaster bonus would not apply since it would increase her caster level above her character level). === What I said was accurate for a wild mage who hadn't lost caster levels elsewhere (your CL is below your HD when you roll a 1 or a 2 on the wild magic dice) - I figured anyone who wanted to know could go to the FAQ and search for "wild mage", but thanks for posting it Ken.
Mommy was an Orc 01-06-07, 05:39 PM	My wild mage does not actually have the feat... I don't like the flavor, and I don't consider it to be worth a feat slot to get an extra +1/2 CL on average, when it can't raise your CL higher than it would be otherwise. You do realize there's the flip side to this - you must have a minimum caster level to actually cast a spell. If you're casting your highest level spell and roll a 1 or 2, it is possible that the spell doesn't go off...
Morgen 01-06-07, 05:57 PM	Tha't sall part of playing a wild mage. You know, I'm sick of people dumpping on the rest of us just because they don't like the flavor of class X or the way feat Y works. Stop trying to ruin the party! :-P
copper_wyrmling 01-06-07, 06:17 PM	You do realize there's the flip side to this - you must have a minimum caster level to actually cast a spell. If you're casting your highest level spell and roll a 1 or 2, it is possible that the spell doesn't go off... Let's stop derailing this thread, yes? Thanks for the explanation re the BK Triad and Wild Mage, Britt. I'm happy to debate this elsewhere, Mommy (Infinite Monkeys? or you could start a thread on the rules board), but here let me just say that I discussed this with my Triad before taking the PrC, we went through the rules and concluded that the potential for reduced caster level does not prevent you from casting top-tier spells, and I have never had a GM rule otherwise in play.