Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lobotaru 09-01-05, 09:10 AM	I've recently began making a Greyhawk character for play in "Teeth of the Storm," but I've realized a slight issue in character development based on my character's chosen deity: Zuoken. According to the Gazetteer, Zuoken is an ascended monk with psionic abilities, and it is impossible in the LG campaign to gain any semblance of psionic ability without breaking the guidelines for character creation and development. I really want to keep Zuoken as my character's patron deity, but trying to follow the deity's tenants is somewhat difficult due to the lack of psionics. Are there any prestige classes out there that allow a character to "ascend" like the Fist of Zuoken prestige class in the Expanded Psionics Handbook? If there is, can you please tell this poor boy which book has this class? :weep: P.S. By any chance has the Circle thought about including the Expanded Psionics Handbook into the campaign? Just curious considering the deities in the Greyhawk Cosmology. :D
Iswald 09-01-05, 10:17 AM	You could use spells to replace psionics. Not a perfect solution, but psionics are unlikely to be allowed. You could aim for enlightened fist and try to get a level of mindbender (limited PrC). For RP reasons, you could attempt to make a monk/cleric/sacred fist. Having tried this already, I don't recommend it, but it does seem to fit Zouken's philosophy of not using weapons. Just select spells that would seem appropriate for whatever psionic abilities you are trying to replicate. Sorceror and favored soul may work better than wizard and cleric for RP reasons. I feel like I'm giving you bad advice though, as I don't see these ideas translating into anything useful.
Lobotaru 09-01-05, 11:39 AM	Its the thought that counts though, and I see what you are pointing at. The real problem is that there are no real "ascending" type monk prestige classes available to players, and due to the level cap it is impossible for a monk to gain Perfect Self. Enlightened Fist is interesting, but due to the point buy system it is very difficult to pull off a successful Enlightened Fist during actual play. I'm starting to think its a lost cause. :weep:
JohnduBois 09-01-05, 01:08 PM	You may want to look into your region's meta-organizations. While they wouldn't provide the means for ascendance, they often allow for you to gain roleplaying benefits and item access for following certain principles. In Furyondy, for example, there is a monastery you can join that was founded by a monk of Zuoken. The only problem is, the meta-orgs will be converted soon, and some may go away or change significantly
haferka 09-01-05, 05:57 PM	Actually, I currently have a character who started out aspiring to the same goal... I progressed to 2nd lvl Monk.. then became dishartend when I discovered that the Powers of my mind were locked away. Just as Zuoken is himself locked away. I then switched alignments (Neautral from LN) and tookup training as a wizard. Currently Ex-Mnk2/Wiz2 going for Enlightened Fist.(Note: Ex-Mnk looses NONE of his Mnk abilities) I have been VERY happy with my choice. ("Fist of Stone" is an awsome spell!) In fact I have recently decided to completly forsake Zuoken in favor of Wee Jas. This also makes me eligible for a nice Bandit Kindoms metaorg (Death Cultists). I'm hoping to somehow gain the ability to Enchant my flesh as Arms & Armor (prob just a wet dream in LG.. but oh well). If I could enchant myself .. i imagine that there would be an increased cost to such enhancemnts (standard for non-sloted items), and I would render myself unable to gain ANY benifit from standard armor, since My natural enhancments would override them. The metaorg actually mentions riturals that "alter you body and soul" without actually mentioning the game effects.. This would be a really cool way to acomplish my dream of self enchantment. Maybee have nasty looking bones protruding from my flesh, which make standard armor impossible to wear. This is an example of how I have taken the limitations of LG and built upon them... If you really want to make a devoted follower of Zuoken, stick with Monk/Fighter.. and maybee if you hold your breath long enophe, they will allow psionics before the character is retired. On a side note.. I dispise those people that persist in telling me that psionics dont fit in the Greyhawk world. There are 2 baklunish dieties devoted to psionics. I have at least a couple of the old collectable cards for LG with Psionic NPCs... etc.. etc... I for one would love it if they added psionics to LG .. even if they were limited/restricted...
kenobi65 09-01-05, 10:24 PM	I for one would love it if they added psionics to LG .. even if they were limited/restricted... I wouldn't hold my breath. Keep in mind that adding psionics to LG would add another entire book of rules that LG Judges would be expected to be conversant in. (And, before you point out that Complete books, etc. have already been added to LG...true, but they don't add an entire new set of rules to the mix. The 3.5 Psionics rules aren't necessarily complex...but they *are* different from anything else that's in the ruleset.) Every post I've ever seen from the Circle on the subject suggests that it's not even under consideration.
haferka 09-02-05, 09:05 AM	Well, since they have added ALL the complete books so far.. it is at least possible that they will add Complete Psionics.. when it becomes available... (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786939117/qid=1125666225/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-7617546-6840944?v=glance&s=books ) then they will prob recieve presure from WOTC to push the book.. more sales.. which will also require inclusion of the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Which will then mean that all the psioncis material from the other books will need to be examined for inclusion.
Simpi 09-02-05, 10:20 AM	Well, since they have added ALL the complete books so far.. it is at least possible that they will add Complete Psionics.. when it becomes available... (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786939117/qid=1125666225/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-7617546-6840944?v=glance&s=books ) then they will prob recieve presure from WOTC to push the book.. more sales.. which will also require inclusion of the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Which will then mean that all the psioncis material from the other books will need to be examined for inclusion. I doubt. Eberron already offers possibility of Psionics if I recall correctly, so it might not boost sales that much. Aside from that, the day psionics enter Living Greyhawk is the day I stop playing or at least refuse to play or DM groups with psionic characters. In my opinion, LG does not need 'everything and a kitchen sink' in it. Regional system was already damaged by making almost all Prestige Classes/Feats Core access and I doubt new meta-organisation rules will help to correct the situation. S.H, Ahlissa (Naerie) webslave
Iswald 09-02-05, 10:21 AM	Given that the circle has passed on adding the Expanded Psionics Handbook more than once and they haven't added some other books to the campaign, I don't think they will allow psionics just because Complete Psionics will be released sometime next year.
Fsi-Dib 09-02-05, 04:54 PM	Monk/Cleric of Zuoken/Sacred Fist..? Funny, I'm about to do the same thing. Though as I've planned it, it doesn't suck. :p
haferka 09-02-05, 05:28 PM	Monk/Cleric of Zuoken/Sacred Fist..? Funny, I'm about to do the same thing. Though as I've planned it, it doesn't suck. :p Funny, as I see it any build involving Sacred Fist inherently sucks...
Namarus 09-02-05, 06:02 PM	Funny, as I see it any build involving Sacred Fist inherently sucks... Full Cleric caster progression, with monk abilities. No, I think it would be quite good.
kenobi65 09-02-05, 06:21 PM	Eberron already offers possibility of Psionics if I recall correctly Correct, as does Living Arcanis.
scon40 09-03-05, 03:04 AM	P.S. By any chance has the Circle thought about including the Expanded Psionics Handbook into the campaign? Just curious considering the deities in the Greyhawk Cosmology. :D Psionics will not be added to the Living Greyhawk campaign. -Steven Conforti, the Circle
haferka 09-03-05, 05:58 AM	Psionics will not be added to the Living Greyhawk campaign. -Steven Conforti, the Circle Fear comes from ignorance :( - not to mention the already overloaded job of managing the campaign as it is now...
Iswald 09-06-05, 10:33 PM	Monk/Cleric of Zuoken/Sacred Fist..? Funny, I'm about to do the same thing. Though as I've planned it, it doesn't suck. :p Perhaps you could show us how sacred fists don't suck? :confused:
haferka 09-07-05, 09:46 PM	Perhaps you could show us how sacred fists don't suck? :confused: I agree with that! a class restriction against using ANY weapon other than unarmed strike.. is WAY to limiting.. especialy with the "magic = weapon" rules... any spell that requres an attack roll could be easily deemed a "weapon" by any of the misc judges for LG.
Lobotaru 09-10-05, 04:01 PM	The dilemma I see currently in the Living Greyhawk game is that psionic deities do exist, meaning that the people who originally created Greyhawk intended for some level of psionics to exist. Psionic deities are also known for being psionic due to their teachings, which means that they probably teach some believers how to access these kinds of powers. Most likely these believers are ascetics much like monks, although with a less martial bend. Sacred Fists work fine for followers of Zouken in that they refuse to use weapons. Unfortunately, they also sacrifice the ability to wield any form of ranged weapon for these special powers. I also agree that what constitutes a weapon as per the restriction presented in the Sacred Fist class is sketchy at best.
kenobi65 09-10-05, 05:15 PM	The dilemma I see currently in the Living Greyhawk game is that psionic deities do exist, meaning that the people who originally created Greyhawk intended for some level of psionics to exist. Psionic deities are also known for being psionic due to their teachings, which means that they probably teach some believers how to access these kinds of powers. Most likely these believers are ascetics much like monks, although with a less martial bend. Theoretically yes, but as Steven Conforti himself told you, they're not going to introduce psionics into the campaign. The question comes up all the time, and the answer never changes. Keep in mind that Living Greyhawk does *not* allow every character option in the rules, nor does it allow for every character concept that the campaign setting might present. So, if not being able to play a psionic PC totally ruins your character concept for you, I'd suggest coming up with a different concept, because you're not going to win this argument.
TimRat 09-13-05, 04:32 PM	i will reiterate that the psionics book will not see the light of day into LG. Tim s VTF circle
haferka 09-13-05, 05:06 PM	i will reiterate that the psionics book will not see the light of day into LG. Tim s VTF circle I dislike your answers ... answer man :) And I for one will continue asking for psionics untill there is a truely "living campaign" which allows them.. "Mark of Heroes" is in no way "living" so dont try to mention Eberron. No disrespect is intended.. but I realize that if I am silent .. I can never be heard.
kenobi65 09-13-05, 06:11 PM	And I for one will continue asking for psionics untill there is a truely "living campaign" which allows them.. "Mark of Heroes" is in no way "living" so dont try to mention Eberron. Living Arcanis, man. Truly a Living campaign, trust me. Or, if you're willing to go outside of RPGA, try Legends of the Shining Jewel. It's an independent game, spun off of Living City. Both allow psionics, though only to members of certain races (Vals in the former, Elan in the latter, but both races are readily available as PCs).
haferka 09-13-05, 07:32 PM	I would prefer to see an LG mini-campaign involving psionics... - Perhaps a storyline invloving the release of Zuoken from his imprisonment... .. mods would contain NPC psionics .. PCs could create an ALTERNATE version of their character.. with psionic options.. the first mod would involve teaching the PCs about the basics of psionics .. then sending thier "mental form" (alternate PSIONIC writup) on a series of missions... The missions would still supply the PCs with standard (non-psionic) rewards.. and it could serve as a testbed for allowing psionics in further campaigns. The creation rules would be virtually identical to the "conversion rules" that were previously used when we went to 3.5 rules...
kenobi65 09-13-05, 09:31 PM	Ah, well, you had said: "And I for one will continue asking for psionics untill there is a truely 'living campaign' which allows them." ...when what you apparently meant was: "I really want a psionic Greyhawk campaign, and am not particularly interested in anything else." Living Arcanis is a full-fledged RPGA Living campaign. Legends of the Shining Jewel is a Living-style campaign, and closer to "baseline" D&D. I play both campaigns, and enjoy them quite a bit. Both seemed to meet the request that you had posted. Realizing that you've very likely got a quixotic fight on your hands in trying to get a psionic Greyhawk campaign, maybe you might want to try something else to satisfy your psi-jones. Mike Mistele
Iswald 09-13-05, 11:10 PM	I dislike your answers ... answer man :) And I for one will continue asking for psionics untill there is a truely "living campaign" which allows them.. "Mark of Heroes" is in no way "living" so dont try to mention Eberron. No disrespect is intended.. but I realize that if I am silent .. I can never be heard. Does Living Kingdoms of Kalamar qualify as 'living'?
haferka 09-13-05, 11:30 PM	so far.. every "living" campaign you have mentioned .. is dead in my area. No players = dead! In my area LG is the dominant game.. with the occasional home game taking second place.. (which never lasts long...) BTW, I love recent changes with the banning of feats/spells etc.. which are broken.. Spikes, Leap Attack, Wraith Strike... Anything that a player dreads having used against him.. is broken.. and thus should never be allowed in the game..
kenobi65 09-14-05, 10:25 AM	Does Living Kingdoms of Kalamar qualify as 'living'? It is, indeed, an RPGA Living campaign. But, if Haferka can't find any Living Arcanis players in his area, it's even less likely that he'll find anyone playing Living Kingdoms of Kalamar, as that campaign has an even smaller player base.
kenobi65 09-14-05, 10:28 AM	so far.. every "living" campaign you have mentioned .. is dead in my area. No players = dead! That's unfortunate. (Just out of curiosity, where is "your area"?) Most Living campaigns, as well as Shining Jewel, have fairly active online play communities. It's not for everyone (typing in a chat room is certainly slower than talking at a table), but for those who can't get a game in their area, it's an option. If that might interest you, let me know, and I can get you details.
haferka 09-14-05, 11:13 AM	Bryan/College Station Texas.. (Texas A&M University) The Mecha of LG gaming across the world!
kenobi65 09-14-05, 11:34 AM	The Mecha of LG gaming across the world! I assume you mean "mecca"..."mecha" being a giant Japanese robot. ;) But, it's true that you can usually find an LG game just about anywhere...but nearly all of the other RPGA campaigns can be pretty regional in their interest. It's not uncommon to find some cities as hotbeds for play of Arcanis, Force, Death, etc.,....and, in other cities, being completely unable to find a game of them. Largely, it seems to depend on whether a particular campaign can get a few hardcore "prostelyzers" in an area, who run games and drum up interest among players. According to what Ian Richards noted on the RPGA GM list a year or so ago, Living Arcanis, FYI, is the second-biggest Living campaign, behind LG, of course.
RLWilde 09-15-05, 07:49 PM	I assume you mean "mecca"..."mecha" being a giant Japanese robot. ;) Maybe they're combining D&D with Battletech? ;) With the Leap Attack nerf, how is my Vindicator 'Mech supposed to do a decent Death From Above? And if I drive an Archer 'Mech, how many LRM 20 attacks do I get with Multishot? (yeah, I know my knowledge of the game is decades out of date...)