Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ithardin 02-21-07, 12:51 PM	Other then the obvious "you take away his credit cards," what are some tactics you use to prevent from being charged upon? -items -spells -tactics -"Gerald Vincent Donkey Swarm" Insights?
Reska 02-21-07, 01:04 PM	Change the dynamics of the ground they're charging on (spike stones, wall of X, transmute rock to mud, etc)
Grantor 02-21-07, 01:06 PM	I have a related question: Can a PC move to within the enemy's charge range, then ready an action to back up when charged? This would foil the charge and place the foe within range to be charged in return. Additionally, since you readied an action, you now get to go immediately before the enemy, almost insuring the counter-charge. If you are allowed to do this...
amnuxoll 02-21-07, 01:10 PM	I thought there was a magic item called "steadfast boots" or some such that would stop charges. Other ways: - Mountebank pclass gives an immediate action dim door - Readied action to step away - Reach weapon + Trip attack
Reylance 02-21-07, 01:11 PM	You can stop someone from charging by blocking line of sight or obstructing movement.
Fleetfang 02-21-07, 01:12 PM	- Ready a reach weapon to trip Or better yet, ready a five foot step toward him along with the trip. Ready the action for when he is 10 feet away from you. Your action goes off first, you trip him and prevent the charge. If you fail to trip him, and assuming a BBEG with 10 natural reach (eg, War troll, ogre, etc), then you still might be able to convince your judge that he can't gain the benefits of charging, since he can only charge by moving to the closest square from which he can attack you. Since you are only 5 feet away from him, he technically can't get the benefits of the charge. ha-HA! This is very much like ducking under a punch that's thrown at you in real life. If you move in close just before someone swings at you, they can't get the full force of their blow behind their attack. - Set a spear for the charge This tends to make you a less attractive target if they can just attack one of your friends.
Mortepierre 02-21-07, 01:26 PM	Personally, assuming I go first in the initiative, I just summon a L-sized monster in the villain's path (yes, I have Rapid Spell). Old trick, you'll say, but quite effective.
ithardin 02-21-07, 01:43 PM	Keep em coming! I've used Obscuring Mist quite often.
Reska 02-21-07, 01:48 PM	Keep em coming! I've used Obscuring Mist quite often. Personally, I like Haboob over Obscuring Mist....sure, it does the same effect, except that it deals damage when standing/moving/anything in it.
KarmaInferno 02-21-07, 02:45 PM	You can't charge someone who is using a Tower Shield in full cover mode. Tanglefoot bags can stop someone cold, or even on a failed save reduce their movement to half so often they cannot complete the charge. Alter the ground between you into "difficult terrain" or similar - can't charge through those squares. Grease works well for this - most judges consider Greased squares difficult. -karma
Qworg 02-21-07, 04:25 PM	Or better yet, ready a five foot step toward him along with the trip. Ready the action for when he is 10 feet away from you. Your action goes off first, you trip him and prevent the charge. If you fail to trip him, and assuming a BBEG with 10 natural reach (eg, War troll, ogre, etc), then you still might be able to convince your judge that he can't gain the benefits of charging, since he can only charge by moving to the closest square from which he can attack you. Since you are only 5 feet away from him, he technically can't get the benefits of the charge. ha-HA! This is very much like ducking under a punch that's thrown at you in real life. If you move in close just before someone swings at you, they can't get the full force of their blow behind their attack. I would never allow this - you're abusing the turn-based nature of the rules. You can get your trip attack, but if he has 10 feet of reach, his charge goes off, even if you trip him. Stepping 5 feet forward just means you bite it and then get a five foot step.
Qworg 02-21-07, 04:26 PM	You can't charge someone who is using a Tower Shield in full cover mode. Tanglefoot bags can stop someone cold, or even on a failed save reduce their movement to half so often they cannot complete the charge. Alter the ground between you into "difficult terrain" or similar - can't charge through those squares. Grease works well for this - most judges consider Greased squares difficult. -karma You CAN attack the tower shield. Tanglefoot are great. Grease is not difficult, but forces a balance check which I think is what really stops a charge.
Simpi 02-21-07, 04:28 PM	Ready the action for when he is 10 feet away from you. Your action goes off first, you trip him and prevent the charge. If you fail to trip him, and assuming a BBEG with 10 natural reach (eg, War troll, ogre, etc), then you still might be able to convince your judge that he can't gain the benefits of charging, since he can only charge by moving to the closest square from which he can attack you. What if he as already moved more than 10? There is nothing in the rules to indicate he would not get benefits. I also find it pretty sad that there are players who look for means to actually abuse grey areas of the rules for every oopportunity (such as Fleetfangs example above). Are they giving any consideration for judges enjoyment and for fellow players enjoyment by deliberately looking for rules arguments? (One of the reasons I don't DM online anymore. There are way too many idiots there) Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
rockondon 02-21-07, 05:15 PM	well if its a male monster...ask it for a commitment. That stops most guys in their tracks. if its female, tell it that you don't have a job. It won't have any interest in you after that. --Don
GrahamWills 02-21-07, 05:25 PM	Ready a grapple works for me. Especially fun if they are mounted
Lupo 02-21-07, 05:36 PM	What if he as already moved more than 10? There is nothing in the rules to indicate he would not get benefits. I also find it pretty sad that there are players who look for means to actually abuse grey areas of the rules for every oopportunity (such as Fleetfangs example above). Are they giving any consideration for judges enjoyment and for fellow players enjoyment by deliberately looking for rules arguments? (One of the reasons I don't DM online anymore. There are way too many idiots there) Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad i am wondering HOW DOES A CHARACTER ACTUALLY KNOW THAT SOME CRITTER IS CHARGING???:confused: yea, the whole 5-ft step thingy smells like an abuse of the the system. :rolleyes: and if the character knows that the critter IS charging, then it is only fair to assume that the critter knows that the character is readying for an 5-ft. step . . . . .:D ciao martin m.
rockondon 02-21-07, 05:46 PM	i am wondering HOW DOES A CHARACTER ACTUALLY KNOW THAT SOME CRITTER IS CHARGING???:confused: The line I always use is "I ready vs approach" and state whatever it is I'll do when he's within reach. Whether he's charging, moving, staggering, whatever...doesn't matter. I wouldn't say I ready vs charge, he might do a move action instead.
solbergb 02-21-07, 06:20 PM	You can tell a critter is charging. It is NOISY. like a -20 to his move silent. He's also moving at "run" speeds, to get enough time for the attack. My favorite approaches are to take away the visibility (he has to see his target to charge it) before he acts, or to take away his ability to go full speed (fog, grease, evards, wall spells, whatever) during the charge. My monk likes (hold line, combat reflexes, reach weapon, sometimes enlarged) to trip charging people, especially if he can do it out of reach so they don't get to attack him from prone. I suspect my very high AC warchanter might ready to intercept charges sometimes, ready to move "in the way". Usually though he's chasing his barbarian sister and interposing, trying to keep her from being all alone with very low AC.
ShinAkuma2 02-21-07, 06:23 PM	HOW DOES A CHARACTER ACTUALLY KNOW THAT SOME CRITTER IS CHARGING???:confused: He would have to move faster than a regular single move, considering you can move twice your speed AND attack. Anyway, I'm a fan of the card "Surprise Set". I once used it with my monk to trip, then grapple a charging baddie..."Ok, now you get to attack." Then again, I once used it to Stunning Fist a charging Polar Bear...I missed, so in my mind, it was a dramatic wind-up, with the impact on his nose reduced to a comical "squeak", accomplishing nothing.
Fleetfang 02-21-07, 06:33 PM	Simpi, I'm trying not to take offense at the "sad" and "idiot" comments above. You accuse me of not keeping the judge's and the other players' fun in mind by looking for rules arguments. If you aren't looking for an argument yourself, why do you post an inflamatory attack on someone, lumping me in with online gamer "idiots"? You don't know me, you don't know my play style, and you don't even know what kind of characters I play --none of which are trippers or would even think about sticking around waiting for a giant to charge them, and thus would never, EVER make use of the tactic I proposed. I've never played online and I resent you automatically assuming that my hypothetical tactical suggestion was an indication of how I play, my motives at the table, or what kind of person I am. Now, I've actually played with Qworg back in "Mad God's Key," so he can talk about me all he wants. :) (How's your halfling Pally doing these days, J?) Combining a 5-foot step with a readied action: I don't really see that as mucking with the rules. And if I implied that I try to bend or break every grey rule out there, then hey, you've got me wrong. This thread was about original ways to keep people from charging you. And if you want to be fair to me, then you've got to admit that I said "you might be able to convince your judge..." which I intended to mean, "it's a diferent way of approaching things, but go ahead and try." 'Nuff said. As to how you know someone is charging you... Rocko has avery good point, but you can usually guess. Well, if, for example, I have something on a cert that says I have the Enmity of the Giants or something like that, so that they will always target me first. And then I find myself in the lead of the party when an ogre shows up. He's got a great big club, he's wearing light armor, and there are slobber stains on his face from where he's been foaming at the mouth... Maybe someone would say it's metagaming, but I'm gonna go waaaaay out on a limb here and assume that he's gonna charge me if I don't do something about it. Or if you're looking at a mounted blackguard with a flaming lance, I think that's another good bet that someone is about to charge you. Of course, if the question is, 'How can you tell "charging" from "approaching?"... since the game gives a distinct mechanic for what happens on a charge, I'd say that any adventurer who has taken "Not Getting Killed by Kobolds: 101" knows that when someone charges, they tend to get a more powerful attack by sacrificing some of their defense.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-21-07, 10:05 PM	If you can afford it...it's always fun to ready an action to throw a portable hole in front of a charging enemy...
LGMoses 02-21-07, 10:28 PM	could u ready an action to bullrush him? I think that thing he was talking about readying to step in front of him may actually be a good thing and possible. if he's in a big battle, he's losing an action where he could be dealing damage to get under the bad guys reach weapon. besides, the bbeg could take an Ao to continue running to get you within hitting distance on the other side of his reach
Lupo 02-22-07, 02:25 AM	You can tell a critter is charging. It is NOISY. like a -20 to his move silent. that is normal movement behavior for most of the tin-can types ;) He's also moving at "run" speeds, to get enough time for the attack. most charges don't go all the way, you only need a 10-ft start. anyway, your tactic seem to be "i ready an active spot and listen" vs. the critter, there goes your standard action for the round ;) the whole thing of the combination of with the 5-ft step with a ready action is a mess and i wouldn't encourage players to use it or do it with critters i dm. and i wouldn't deny a critter the benefits of a charge IF the target moves closer and the critter is still able to attack. if players insist on it, i would immediately "metagame" the critters at the same level: "hey the BDF over there hasn't acted yet, he might be up to something nasty!" ciao martin m.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 02:59 AM	that is normal movement behavior for most of the tin-can types ;) most charges don't go all the way, you only need a 10-ft start. anyway, your tactic seem to be "i ready an active spot and listen" vs. the critter, there goes your standard action for the round ;) the whole thing of the combination of with the 5-ft step with a ready action is a mess and i wouldn't encourage players to use it or do it with critters i dm. and i wouldn't deny a critter the benefits of a charge IF the target moves closer and the critter is still able to attack. if players insist on it, i would immediately "metagame" the critters at the same level: "hey the BDF over there hasn't acted yet, he might be up to something nasty!" ciao martin m. Regardless of how far a character moves, they would still be covering that ground twice as fast durring a charge as they would be durring normal movement. And it's not metagaming to realize that a character is readying for something either, as it would be quite obvious if they took no action on their turn. As far as countering a charge by stepping into it...that's only even a possibility against creatures with reach, and it does make sense then because unless they also threaten adjacent squares then they would not be able to attack you after you moved. For those without reach, or those with total reach like large critters or spike chain wielders, I don't think stepping in will matter much. As far as readying vs. a charge, you make it sound like it's an impossible thing to do....
Bogjob 02-22-07, 07:59 AM	One of our fighters uses 'ablative' dogs :) If something is charging it has to stop at the first targets.
kjenks 02-22-07, 09:11 AM	My familiar uses its Hand of the Mage to light up a smokestick. Or my familiar readies an action to Dimension Door using its Cape of the Mountebank (taking me with it) if either of us are attacked. Invisibility prevents charging. Fly, Swift prevents charging. (Even if your charge-happy opponent can fly, he can't charge up unless he has perfect maneuverability.) Wall of (Fire, Force, Stone, Iron, Gloom, etc.) works too -- especially fun as a readied action.
The_Jester 02-22-07, 09:18 AM	My main is a bard so I have to tactics. 1) Hide behind someone tougher 2) Grease I'm fond of the latter
solbergb 02-22-07, 11:24 AM	as a side note, if the monster figures out that you are readying to interrupt a charge and just approaches, you've already won. He's not getting his attack this round. (if he's already in approach range, I never assume he's going to charge unless he's a zombie, slowed or has demonstrated ability to do more damage in a charge, like a Rhino, a lance-guy or a shock trooper who already demonstrated his schtick on another party member who is now bleeding out....) Ken, isn't your familiar a raven? And isn't the Hand of the Mage an actual hand of a dead elf? How is a size tiny strength 1 raven carrying a dead elf hand around its neck? That's not an item that will shrink, even if you craft it for the raven. I guess you could use dead elf baby hands, but that will have even worse social consequences. Just asking, because I know you do clever things with familiars.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 12:11 PM	as a side note, if the monster figures out that you are readying to interrupt a charge and just approaches, you've already won. He's not getting his attack this round. (if he's already in approach range, I never assume he's going to charge unless he's a zombie, slowed or has demonstrated ability to do more damage in a charge, like a Rhino, a lance-guy or a shock trooper who already demonstrated his schtick on another party member who is now bleeding out....) Ken, isn't your familiar a raven? And isn't the Hand of the Mage an actual hand of a dead elf? How is a size tiny strength 1 raven carrying a dead elf hand around its neck? That's not an item that will shrink, even if you craft it for the raven. I guess you could use dead elf baby hands, but that will have even worse social consequences. Just asking, because I know you do clever things with familiars. Wow...dead baby elf hands....I think the board has sunk to a new low....
kjenks 02-22-07, 12:16 PM	Actually, it's two different characters. My 5th level annoying gnome, Delphinius P. Spindlebottom, Esq., has a horned lizard familiar, Ew. Ew wears the Hand of the Mage. As a Str 7 tiny quadraped, Ew has the strength to carry it (light load 17.25 lbs.). My 15th level sorceress, Stella, has a raven familiar, Cranzer. Cranzer wears two Capes of the Mountebank. (After using one, either Cranzer or Stella will use a move action to remove it, allowing the other one to function.) As a Str 1 tiny biped (light load 1.5 lbs.) or quadraped (light load 2.25 lbs.), Cranzer can't carry much, but Capes only weigh 1 lb. each.
kjenks 02-22-07, 12:17 PM	If it makes you feel any better, the elf was a drow.
Qworg 02-22-07, 12:21 PM	Now, I've actually played with Qworg back in "Mad God's Key," so he can talk about me all he wants. :) (How's your halfling Pally doing these days, J?) Just fine, thank you. =) About to hit 13 now, and doing more damage than I can believe. =0 Of course, if the question is, 'How can you tell "charging" from "approaching?"... since the game gives a distinct mechanic for what happens on a charge, I'd say that any adventurer who has taken "Not Getting Killed by Kobolds: 101" knows that when someone charges, they tend to get a more powerful attack by sacrificing some of their defense. The problem isn't in identifying the charge. The problem is how to adjudicate an obviously gray area of the rules. =/ My party was very effective in stopping my charge this last weekend - the wizard stepped in front of me, the other wizard dropped a wall of force and stepped in my line (while invisible). =)
MaxDog 02-22-07, 05:22 PM	I would never allow this - you're abusing the turn-based nature of the rules. You can get your trip attack, but if he has 10 feet of reach, his charge goes off, even if you trip him. Stepping 5 feet forward just means you bite it and then get a five foot step. How is this an abuse? Is it that different than an archer readying an action to pop a spell caster "if he begins casting"? Or readying a spear against a charge? In this instance, you are using your superior initiative and your opponents weakness (a large, unwieldy weapon) to your advantage. Would it be an abuse for a wizard to ready an action to cast Burning Hands on an opponent who approached to 15'? If the opponent had 15' reach? Didn't charge? I really don't see the "grey area" people are talking about. A charge simply let's an attacker break the usual Move Action - Standard Action rule by permitting Move-Move-Attack. But just like any other move, the charge can be interrupted at any point along the path. Step on trap? provoke an AoO? either of these things will interrupt and possibly stop the charge. So why wouldn't a readied action to 5' step into a charge?
bitznarf 02-22-07, 05:27 PM	How is this an abuse? Is it that different than an archer readying an action to pop a spell caster "if he begins casting"? Or readying a spear against a charge? In this instance, you are using your superior initiative and your opponents weakness (a large, unwieldy weapon) to your advantage. As I see it, this is how you get your dex bonus to AC to 'dodge' inside the weapon reach. If the charger misses, you were successful, if not, he adjusted and hit you anyway despite your last minute adjustment. Thats all the 5' is designed to be, an adjustment, not an actual 'move'.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 05:35 PM	As I see it, this is how you get your dex bonus to AC to 'dodge' inside the weapon reach. If the charger misses, you were successful, if not, he adjusted and hit you anyway despite your last minute adjustment. Thats all the 5' is designed to be, an adjustment, not an actual 'move'. But do you agree that if the charging character is using a reach weapon and is not capable of attacking adjacent squares that he then is not able to make his charge attack, because you moved before he got to attack?
bitznarf 02-22-07, 05:50 PM	But do you agree that if the charging character is using a reach weapon and is not capable of attacking adjacent squares that he then is not able to make his charge attack, because you moved before he got to attack? I do not, as I believe that to violate the spirit of the rules. If you readied more then a 5 foot *adjustment* I wouldn't have a problem with it. If you made a 5 foot adjustment away from the charger and thus the charger ran out of move to get to you, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's the stepping into the charge, to avoid the charge that violates what I see as the spirit of the rules. Feel free to convince me that the intent lies elsewhere, I like to think I am reasonable when shown rules support saying otherwise. Edit: as for 'moving before he got to attack'; I think its a 5 foot 'adjustment' not a 5 foot 'move'.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 06:20 PM	I do not, as I believe that to violate the spirit of the rules. If you readied more then a 5 foot *adjustment* I wouldn't have a problem with it. If you made a 5 foot adjustment away from the charger and thus the charger ran out of move to get to you, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's the stepping into the charge, to avoid the charge that violates what I see as the spirit of the rules. Feel free to convince me that the intent lies elsewhere, I like to think I am reasonable when shown rules support saying otherwise. Edit: as for 'moving before he got to attack'; I think its a 5 foot 'adjustment' not a 5 foot 'move'. Whether you consider it an "adjustment" or a "move" is irrelevant. What is relevant is that your location changed to a square that the charger is no longer capable of striking. Depending on the ammount of movement required however, I don't think it would be unreasonable for the bad guy to then back up one square and attack you, however he would provoke an attack of opportunity in doing so for leaving a threatened square....
bitznarf 02-22-07, 06:27 PM	Whether you consider it an "adjustment" or a "move" is irrelevant. What is relevant is that your location changed to a square that the charger is no longer capable of striking. Depending on the ammount of movement required however, I don't think it would be unreasonable for the bad guy to then back up one square and attack you, however he would provoke an attack of opportunity in doing so for leaving a threatened square.... So you would rather have the charger backup in the middle of a charge and attack? The reason I believe the differentiation between 'move' and 'adjust' lies in what I see as the intent of the rules. I don't believe that the intent is for the charger to not get an attack in due to an adjustment on the defenders part *towards* the charger.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 07:03 PM	So you would rather have the charger backup in the middle of a charge and attack? The reason I believe the differentiation between 'move' and 'adjust' lies in what I see as the intent of the rules. I don't believe that the intent is for the charger to not get an attack in due to an adjustment on the defenders part *towards* the charger. So you would allow it if it were an actual move action to move 5ft, as opposed to the non-action 5ft step? If so you are a hippocrit because it shouldn't matter at all HOW the change in squares occured, be it 5ft step, move action, dimension door, Or a readied action slide spell. There's no room to argue intent of the rules in such an explicitly defined area. If you ready an action to 5ft step and attack a charging character, and that 5ft step puts you in a square that the charger is unable to attack, then the he obviously can't. Guy charges with reach weapon, other guy steps into it and attacks, 1st guy can no longer attack other guy unless he has a way to attack adjacent squares. Very cut and dry. Just another drawback of reach weapons really.
bitznarf 02-22-07, 07:32 PM	So you would allow it if it were an actual move action to move 5ft, as opposed to the non-action 5ft step? If so you are a hippocrit because it shouldn't matter at all HOW the change in squares occured, be it 5ft step, move action, dimension door, Or a readied action slide spell. There's no room to argue intent of the rules in such an explicitly defined area. If you ready an action to 5ft step and attack a charging character, and that 5ft step puts you in a square that the charger is unable to attack, then the he obviously can't. Guy charges with reach weapon, other guy steps into it and attacks, 1st guy can no longer attack other guy unless he has a way to attack adjacent squares. Very cut and dry. Just another drawback of reach weapons really. Ah hah! I've found it (or at least part of it: from http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a Likewise, you measure your reach for your melee attacks and the range for your ranged attacks from any square you and your mount jointly occupy. This doesn't have to be enforced in this manner in LG, however I believe that in one of the DC's these articles are considered good guidance. Now this does only apply to mounted and reach, but it does at least satisfy what I feel is the intent of the rules. As for a non mounted character I think I am inclined to agree with you, that there is sufficient rules support to stop the charge.
Archwolf 02-22-07, 07:41 PM	Just to get back to the original thread, when faced with a possessed charging ranger, my spiffy new beguiler created a Silent Image of a 50 foot trench in front of the party. The charging dude pulled up rather than crash down into the trench.
Gallaway 03-01-07, 06:10 PM	I assume you are meant to have initiative throw some caltrops this down may not stop him but at least can annoy him summon dx+1 a badgers to form a skirmish line in front of the party cast any of: command fear blindness glitterdust sleep/slumber hold person/monster if you are worried about a power attack cast ray of enfeeblement to hopefully drop STR below 13 if he is mounted ... cast reduce animal
MaxDog 03-01-07, 06:44 PM	I assume you are meant to have initiative [snip] summon dx+1 a badgers to form a skirmish line in front of the party cast any of: [snip] sleep/slumber [snip] If you try these, you'd better hope he spends a round buffing: they're 1 round casting times. if he is mounted ... cast reduce animal ooooo! I like this!
Samwise 03-02-07, 01:07 AM	If you have rapid spell, the badgers appear right away. Y the UnGnome (and Gana), the Badger Mage
Lupo 03-02-07, 02:18 AM	I assume you are meant to have initiative throw some caltrops this down may not stop him but at least can annoy him summon dx+1 a badgers to form a skirmish line in front of the party cast any of: command fear blindness glitterdust sleep/slumber hold person/monster if you are worried about a power attack cast ray of enfeeblement to hopefully drop STR below 13 if he is mounted ... cast reduce animal sorry, but "reduce animal" (like "reduce person" only works on "willing animal", any animal that is a mount of a foe should be considered "unwilling" :( unless you can first get it at your side with an "animal empathy check" ;). lately my cleric casted "power word blind" as a readied action in the middle of a charge . . . . but the dm wasn't really into it, he just continued, but with a miss chance. it was a pathetic "warming up encounter", my cleric was playing down and actually we took extra time for the encounter because we tried to NOT KILL the critters right away and so i didn't make a fuzz about it. additional spells: grease tasha's laughter otto's dance rapid summon a satyr with pipes for the "fear" effect, but be careful where to place him ;) tanglefoot bags are an option ciao martin m.
rockondon 03-02-07, 02:52 AM	one time I was faced against a mounted opponent with 15ft reach and all the feats - ride by, mounted combat, etc. I couldn't touch him. So every round I would ready my standard action: when he comes within range I'll move 30ft away. He got bored of me after a while and went after someone else. okay I know I didn't stop his charge, but it did prevent him from doing anything useful with it.
Lupo 03-02-07, 03:45 AM	one time I was faced against a mounted opponent with 15ft reach and all the feats - ride by, mounted combat, etc. I couldn't touch him. So every round I would ready my standard action: when he comes within range I'll move 30ft away. He got bored of me after a while and went after someone else. okay I know I didn't stop his charge, but it did prevent him from doing anything useful with it. after anyone does this once, my mounted character would just ride next to the character in question and smack him ;) ciao martin m. ps: i use charges mostly for reaching characters to far away for a normal move, i don't have a character with the "mounted cheese" feat tree . . . yet ;)
Timlagor 03-02-07, 08:11 AM	Blindness should stop the charge not 'because they can't see you' but 'because they can't see the ground' (adn there'fore are reduced to half speed) -I suspect the DM didn't realise this. I'd have laughed so hard if the charger had had ?Fleet of Foot (that allows one turn mid-charge)
Zanzibax 03-02-07, 09:38 AM	One of our fighters uses 'ablative' dogs :) If something is charging it has to stop at the first targets. :P Herd of sheep:D
Zanzibax 03-02-07, 09:40 AM	If you have rapid spell, the badgers appear right away. Y the UnGnome (and Gana), the Badger Mage Badgers...not beavers...Gotta remember that...the beavers always get eaten.:angelhide
bitznarf 03-02-07, 10:45 AM	Badgers...not beavers...Gotta remember that...the beavers always get eaten.:angelhide :rimshot:
taylorj 03-02-07, 11:11 AM	Other then the obvious "you take away his credit cards," what are some tactics you use to prevent from being charged upon? Enlarged Knight with a Reach weapon. One of the Knight abilities is that any square you threaten becomes Difficult terrain. Get a reach weapon and, ideally, enlarge him and basically there's no charging for any bad guys. Or 5' steps for that matter.
ithardin 03-02-07, 12:48 PM	Oh that last one was excellent...
Landale 03-02-07, 03:27 PM	As a ranger, I tend to be either in the front or to the side, with my animal companion right beside me, and with a high dex, I tend to go first. So...if I get into an encounter where I'm sure I or one of my teammates will be charged, I just send my wolf up to trip him. If he didn't trip and he still insists on charging, my wolf will get an AoO, and attempt to trip again. Or if the option presents itself, I just cast Entangle if I'm in the woods.
Golorious 03-02-07, 05:24 PM	My favorite Charge breakers are Waves of Exhaustion no save... penalties worse than fatigue (7th level spell) Acid Fog no save no SR works like solid fog but +2d6 damage per round, Reuplsion (will save), they can't approach you if they fail the will save. (6th level) I also really like scalding Mud from sandstorm. Waves of Fatigue.. no save.. cannot run or charge when fatigued. (5th level) Solid Fog No save no SR, can only move 5 ft but you can't take a 5ft step. (4th level) Slow.. Charge is a full round action, slowed creatures can take a move or standard. Slow is serriously under rated as a party saver, but it has a saving throw. It is often more handy then haste against creatures that get multiple attacks. (3rd level) Glitter Dust or blindness/deafness depending on if their will or fort saves are strong or Fog cloud, can't charge what you can't see. (2nd level) Entangle 1st level spell of fun. Mundane Charge breakers Caltrops tanglefoot bags nets boloas Longspears set
HypnoticMonk 03-02-07, 06:42 PM	I admire everyone else's restraint in holding back from saying the following... How do you stop a (insert random villain/monster) from charging? Take away his credit cards! Thank you, thank you, I'll be here thru Sunday!!
UMiskatonic 03-02-07, 07:26 PM	Ken, so you know, Quadraped, quite literallly, means four footed creature. Goats, elephants, dire tortises are all quadrapeds. I'm not so sure about birds.....
solbergb 03-02-07, 08:38 PM	birds are bipeds Unless they're hippogriffs or some other quadruped with wings. The birds we have on mundane earth have 2 legs. (peds).
kjenks 03-03-07, 12:41 AM	I'm not so sure, either. The Monster Manual has several flying creatures that list carrying capacities, and from those, we can get some hints about which of these are "quadrapeds" and which are "bipeds" for the purposes of determining carrying capacity. Unfortunately, the authors of the Monster Manual messed up in several places, and the hints we get from this are pretty hard to interpret. I've crunched the data for every monster in the SRD Monster*.rtf pages containing a "Carrying Capacity: " field. With a lot of copy/paste, here are the monsters, their type and size, their Str score, their listed carrying capacity, and the output of a spreadsheet saying what the carrying capacity ought to be for creatures with that Str score. From all that, we can get a hint about how the MM/SRD treats these creatures, as a Large Quadraped, Medium Biped, etc. Here's the data. It's kinda hard to digest, so I'll just post it here and analyze it in my next post. CHIMERA Large Magical Beast Str 19 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a chimera is up to 348 pounds; a medium load, 349–699 pounds, and a heavy load, 700–1,050 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 19, Med biped: 116, 233, 350, Lg biped: 232, 466, 700, Lg quad: 348, 699, 1050 = Lg quad DRAGONNE Large Magical Beast Str 19 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a dragonne is up to 348 pounds; a medium load, 349–699 pounds, and a heavy load, 700–1,050 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 19, Med biped: 116, 233, 350, Lg biped: 232, 466, 700, Lg quad: 348, 699, 1050 = Lg quad EAGLE, GIANT Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a giant eagle is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad GRIFFON Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a griffon is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad HIPPOGRIFF Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a hippogriff is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad HOWLER Large Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar) Str 21 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a howler is up to 460 pounds; a medium load, 461–920 pounds; and a heavy load, 921–1,380 pounds. A howler can drag 6,900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 21, Med biped: 153, 306, 460, Lg biped: 306, 612, 920, Lg quad: 459, 918, 1380 = Lg quad NIGHTMARE Nightmare Large Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar) Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a nightmare is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad NIGHTMARE Nightmare, Cauchemar Huge Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar) Str 31 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a cauchemar is up to 612 pounds; a medium load, 613–1,224 pounds; and a heavy load, 1,225–1,840 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 31, Med biped: 612, 1224, 1840, Lg biped: 1224, 2448, 3680, Lg quad: 1836, 3672, 5520 = Does not compute OWL, GIANT Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a giant owl is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad PEGASUS Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a pegasus is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad SPIDER EATER Large Magical Beast Str 21 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a spider eater is up to 306 pounds; a medium load, 307–612 pounds; and a heavy load, 613–920 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 21, Med biped: 153, 306, 460, Lg biped: 306, 612, 920, Lg quad: 459, 918, 1380 = Lg biped CAMEL Large Animal Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a camel is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. A camel can drag 4,500 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad DOG, RIDING Medium Animal Str 15 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a riding dog is up to 100 pounds; a medium load, 101–200 pounds; and a heavy load, 201–300 pounds. A riding dog can drag 1,500 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 13, Med biped: 50, 100, 150, Lg biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg quad: 150, 300, 450 (66 * 1.5 = 99, so this is computes as a Med quad) DONKEY Medium Animal Str 10 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a donkey is up to 50 pounds; a medium load, 51–100 pounds; and a heavy load, 101–150 pounds. A donkey can drag 750 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 10, Med biped: 33, 66, 100, Lg biped: 66, 132, 200, Lg quad: 99, 198, 300 (33 * 1.5 = 49.5, so this is computes as a Med quad) HORSE Horse, Heavy Large Animal Str 16 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a heavy horse is up to 200 pounds; a medium load, 201–400 pounds; and a heavy load, 401–600 pounds. A heavy horse can drag 3,000 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 16, Med biped: 76, 153, 230, Lg biped: 152, 306, 460, Lg quad: 228, 459, 690 = Does not compute Horse, Light Large Animal Str 14 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a light horse is up to 150 pounds; a medium load, 151–300 pounds; and a heavy load, 301–450 pounds. A light horse can drag 2,250 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 14, Med biped: 58, 116, 175, Lg biped: 116, 232, 350, Lg quad: 174, 348, 525 = Does not compute Warhorse, Heavy Large Animal Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a heavy warhorse is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. A heavy warhorse can drag 4,500 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad Warhorse, Light Large Animal Str 16 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a light warhorse is up to 230 pounds; a medium load, 231–460 pounds; and a heavy load, 461–690 pounds. A light warhorse can drag 3,450 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 16, Med biped: 76, 153, 230, Lg biped: 152, 306, 460, Lg quad: 228, 459, 690 = Lg quad MULE Large Animal Str 16 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a mule is up to 230 pounds; a medium load, 231–460 pounds; and a heavy load, 461–690 pounds. A mule can drag 3,450 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 16, Med biped: 76, 153, 230, Lg biped: 152, 306, 460, Lg quad: 228, 459, 690 = Lg quad PONY Medium Animal Str 13 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a pony is up to 75 pounds; a medium load, 76–150 pounds; and a heavy load, 151–225 pounds. A pony can drag 1,125 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 13, Med biped: 50, 100, 150, Lg biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg quad: 150, 300, 450 (50 * 1.5 = 75, so this is computes as a Med quad) PONY, WAR Medium Animal Str 15 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a warpony is up to 100 pounds; a medium load, 101–200 pounds; and a heavy load, 201–300 pounds. A warpony can drag 1,500 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 15, Med biped: 66, 133, 200, Lg biped: 132, 266, 400, Lg quad: 198, 399, 600 (99 * 1.5 = 99, so this is computes as a Med quad)
kjenks 03-03-07, 12:56 AM	So to figure out if my sorceress' raven is a quadraped, let's analyze the two birds in that mess: EAGLE, GIANT Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a giant eagle is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad OWL, GIANT Large Magical Beast Str 18 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a giant owl is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301–600 pounds; and a heavy load, 601–900 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 18, Med biped: 100, 200, 300, Lg biped: 200, 400, 600, Lg quad: 300, 600, 900 = Lg quad So a Giant Eagle has Str 18, right? If it were treated as a medium biped, it would have a light load of 100 lbs. But the SRD says it's large and its light load is 300 lbs. So, by the rules for carrying capacity, that means it must be a large quadraped. Same with a Giant Owl. So I feel justified in treating my raven as a quadraped. This means its carrying capacity is 2.25 lbs. RAVEN Tiny Animal Str 1 Computed carrying capacity: Str: 1, Med biped: 3, 6, 10, Lg biped: 6, 12, 20, Lg quad: 9, 18, 30 (For a tiny biped, a light load would be 1.5 lbs., or for a tiny quadraped, a light load would be 2.25 lbs.) This is important to me because I have the raven wearing two Capes of the Mountebank, one on top of the other. This means the top one is non-functional, so after using one Cape, one of uses a move action to remove it from the raven so he can use the other one. Each weighs 1 lb., and if he's a quadraped with 2.25 lbs. carrying capacity, he can fly while wearing both, but if he's a biped, he can't fly until we take off one of his Capes.
Fleetfang 03-03-07, 12:07 PM	NIGHTMARE Nightmare, Cauchemar Huge Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar) Str 31 Carrying Capacity: A light load for a cauchemar is up to 612 pounds; a medium load, 613–1,224 pounds; and a heavy load, 1,225–1,840 pounds. Computed carrying capacity: Str: 31, Med biped: 612, 1224, 1840, Lg biped: 1224, 2448, 3680, Lg quad: 1836, 3672, 5520 = Does not compute Uh, this does compute. The Cauchemar is apparently a medium biped. So the huge, bigger, badder version of a nightmare actually works off of the two-legged human-sized scale? I think this makes the case quite clearly that the carrying capacity grunts were told "Calculate the carrying cappacity for the mount-type creatures; here's the formula," and they went to town. The giant birds got their carrying capacity messed up, just like the huge-sized cauchemar nightmare. At best, you should expect table variation. I wouldn't let your raven (or your interpretation) fly, as I think it extrapolates from flawed numbers. If you take the carrying capacity rules and do NOT filter them through some poorly interpreted stat-blocks, then it's clear that your Raven cannot fly with 2 pounds of gear. Any dictionary can tell you that a bird has two legs, and that bipeds are animals with two legs. That's pretty cut and dried in my eyes.
kjenks 03-03-07, 03:22 PM	Any dictionary can tell you that a bird has two legs, and that bipeds are animals with two legs. That's pretty cut and dried in my eyes. You have cut and dried bird legs in your eyes? Ew. I've read dictionaries a time or two. They never help me much with the rules of this game. For determining carrying capacities, how are birds treated in the rules, as bipeds or as quadrapeds? Maybe we could find some examples in the Monster Manual. What are the examples of birds in the monster manual that list carrying capacities? Giant eagles and giant owls. Are they treated as quadrapeds or as bipeds? That seems cut and dried to me.
Fleetfang 03-03-07, 05:01 PM	Touche', Ken. Good point! Yeah, I guess you're right. There's no definition within the bounds of the rules that tells us what a quadraped is. You got me there. Of course, as far as I can see, there's no definition in the rules for any category of animals called "birds," either. What's a "bird"? I don't see your rationale for drawing a connection between your tiny familiar raven and the giant owl or a giant eagle. From what I can read in the rules, your raven doesn't have anything in common with them except that they are all magical beasts and they have fly speeds. But you can say the same thing about your raven and a hippogriff, a chimera, a nightmare, or a griffon. You're being deliberately obtuse, Ken. Just admit it, okay.
Paul H 03-03-07, 06:17 PM	Hi One favourite way of breaking a charge is to cast Leomund's Tiny Hut. (Warmages can take it at 6th lvl). You now have total concealment, whilst they are visible to you. (You are, of course a target for Fireball etc). :devil: Another way to stop being charged is to charge them first. Quite simple, really!! My main char (Clr3 Warmage 4 Mystic Theurge 1) has a Tan Bag of Tricks. I normally start combat by rolling percentile dice & hoping for the Rhino! (Still haven't had one. Lots of Warhorses & Brown Bears, tho....) Cheers Paul H
King Kashue 03-03-07, 06:42 PM	Enlarged Knight with a Reach weapon. One of the Knight abilities is that any square you threaten becomes Difficult terrain. Get a reach weapon and, ideally, enlarge him and basically there's no charging for any bad guys. Or 5' steps for that matter. That is not the Knight's ability. I'm amazed at how many people have misread this. "An opponent that begins its turn in your threatened area treats all the squares that you threaten as difficult terrain." (PHBII p. 28) If an opponent doesn't begin in a threatened square, then there's no impediment to movement. The ability can not possible stop someone from charging you unless you have 15' or more reach and the opponent is charging from within your reach (a rare situation indeed).
King Kashue 03-03-07, 08:03 PM	Touche', Ken. Good point! Yeah, I guess you're right. There's no definition within the bounds of the rules that tells us what a quadraped is. You got me there. You're being deliberately obtuse, Ken. Just admit it, okay. Actually, there is a definition. "Strength: As noted on page 162 of the Player's handbook, quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Any creature with four or more motive limbs can carry a load as a quadruped, even if it does not necessarily use all the limbs at once." (MM p.7) So, there's the explicit definition. Birds (including Ken's raven) have four motive limbs, two legs, two wings. Therefore, by the rules, they're quadrupeds.
kjenks 03-03-07, 11:12 PM	All hail the King, who found the obscure rule reference! Of course, as far as I can see, there's no definition in the rules for any category of animals called "birds," either. What's a "bird"? I don't see your rationale for drawing a connection between your tiny familiar raven and the giant owl or a giant eagle. From what I can read in the rules, your raven doesn't have anything in common with them except that they are all magical beasts and they have fly speeds. But you can say the same thing about your raven and a hippogriff, a chimera, a nightmare, or a griffon. You're being deliberately obtuse, Ken. Just admit it, okay. I'll admit to being obtuse, but there is a rule for categories of animals related to familiars: SRD === Speak with Animals of Its Kind (Ex): If the master is 7th level or higher, a familiar can communicate with animals of approximately the same kind as itself (including dire varieties): bats with bats, rats with rodents, cats with felines, hawks and owls and ravens with birds, lizards and snakes with reptiles, toads with amphibians, weasels with similar creatures (weasels, minks, polecats, ermines, skunks, wolverines, and badgers). Such communication is limited by the intelligence of the conversing creatures. === So "hawks and owls and ravens" do have something in common with other birds.
Gallaway 03-04-07, 10:27 PM	Enlarged Knight with a Reach weapon. One of the Knight abilities is that any square you threaten becomes Difficult terrain. Get a reach weapon and, ideally, enlarge him and basically there's no charging for any bad guys. Or 5' steps for that matter. very interesting ........
King Kashue 03-04-07, 10:42 PM	very interesting ........ *Points to the post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11655042&postcount=65) explaining that's not how the ability actually works* :D
taylorj 03-05-07, 11:16 AM	That is not the Knight's ability. I'm amazed at how many people have misread this. "An opponent that begins its turn in your threatened area treats all the squares that you threaten as difficult terrain." (PHBII p. 28) If an opponent doesn't begin in a threatened square, then there's no impediment to movement. The ability can not possible stop someone from charging you unless you have 15' or more reach and the opponent is charging from within your reach (a rare situation indeed). Whoops! That does put a damper on things. Oh well, can't have everything.
King Kashue 03-05-07, 12:28 PM	Whoops! That does put a damper on things. Oh well, can't have everything. Lots of people are misreading it. I misread it at first and then thought "wait, that is way too powerful in general, and certainly for a third level ability...
Fleetfang 03-05-07, 12:36 PM	Actually, there is a definition. "Strength: As noted on page 162 of the Player's handbook, quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Any creature with four or more motive limbs can carry a load as a quadruped, even if it does not necessarily use all the limbs at once." (MM p.7) So, there's the explicit definition. Birds (including Ken's raven) have four motive limbs, two legs, two wings. Therefore, by the rules, they're quadrupeds. Well, pluck my feathers and call me "Baldy"... Looks like it's official. Rock on with your bad-two-cloaks-raven, Ken! What's a 'motive limb'? I suppose that my tumbling rogue can walk on his hands. Maybe I can give him a x4 to his carrying capacity, even when he's not using his hands to walk! Or better yet, any humanoid could probably crawl on his hands and feet. All humanoids can therefore get the x4 to their carrying capacity, even if they aren't using all four limbs to walk on their feet! Sweet!
King Kashue 03-05-07, 12:51 PM	What's a 'motive limb'? I suppose that my tumbling rogue can walk on his hands. Maybe I can give him a x4 to his carrying capacity, even when he's not using his hands to walk! Or better yet, any humanoid could probably crawl on his hands and feet. All humanoids can therefore get the x4 to their carrying capacity, even if they aren't using all four limbs to walk on their feet! Sweet! Unfortunately the mechanics for crawling are already spelled out, and they aren't quite that generous :D You're a bipedal meatsack, best get used to it ;) Unless of course, ou can turn into something else...like say, my Bear warrior who will have a str of 50 at 15th level (assuming I can get a Bull's strength)...Push or drag 174 metric tons baby! :D
Fleetfang 03-05-07, 04:32 PM	No, King! Dig it: "Strength: As noted on page 162 of the Player's handbook, quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Any creature with four or more motive limbs can carry a load as a quadruped, even if it does not necessarily use all the limbs at once." (MM p.7) So that means that I can carry x4 my stuff without necessarily using all four of my limbs to do so, right? I mean, if the raven can fly with stuff as a quadruped, even though he's only using two limbs to fly, then shouldn't I be able to carry stuff as a quadruped even when i'm not crawling... like when I'm using two legs to walk? Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
King Kashue 03-05-07, 06:31 PM	No, King! Dig it: So that means that I can carry x4 my stuff without necessarily using all four of my limbs to do so, right? I mean, if the raven can fly with stuff as a quadruped, even though he's only using two limbs to fly, then shouldn't I be able to carry stuff as a quadruped even when i'm not crawling... like when I'm using two legs to walk? Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Ah, but the arms aren't motive limbs. Just because we use them to stabilize ourselves when we crawl doesn't mean they're used in locomotion. And tumble says nothing about walking on your hands. Your argument is compelling, at least as a joke ;) But until your statblock is sporting a "crawl speed" or "walk on hands speed", I don't think you can make it work within the rules :D
solbergb 03-05-07, 07:08 PM	so..my monk has a cloak of arachnid, granting him a climb speed that requires him to use all four limbs to move (it's like the spell, you need hands free, as opposed to slippers of spider climb, that let you run up walls) Does he get 2x weight capacity? Has he become a quadruped? That would be cool. But I'm not going to try to convince any Judge of it.
King Kashue 03-05-07, 07:35 PM	so..my monk has a cloak of arachnid, granting him a climb speed that requires him to use all four limbs to move (it's like the spell, you need hands free, as opposed to slippers of spider climb, that let you run up walls) Does he get 2x weight capacity? Has he become a quadruped? That would be cool. But I'm not going to try to convince any Judge of it. The spell doesn't actually say you use your arms to crawl, merely that you must have your hands free...That doesn't mean that your arms become "motive limbs"... (Just if we're working through our goofy examples :D)
Zanzibax 03-08-07, 12:23 PM	This is hilarious! The hard part is *knowing*...for *fact*...and *indisputeably* how to stop every single charge in every single situation (providing you can act before the charge...naturally)... ...but if I told you all how, my DM would scalp me and feed my hairpiece to his CATS!
LachlarlanIII 03-08-07, 12:59 PM	Ready to cast Grease when you're exactly 5' outside it's reach?:D
Zanzibax 03-08-07, 01:07 PM	Ready to cast Grease when you're exactly 5' outside it's reach?:D Nope...but that'll do the trick...I'd recommend readying to cast when it's still 15' away but yet in the middle of it's charge for the graphic display of hilarity. 5'? Bah...let it come sliding to you on it's butt. :D My solution works for anyone...caster...non-caster...prone...standing...and even flying to a limited degree...or rather...even against flying... :D ... to a limited degree. I Just Can't TELL YOU! Blame my DM for me.
Samwise 03-08-07, 01:24 PM	Don't listen to Zanzibax. I am going to start crossing stuff off his AR's at random.
Zanzibax 03-08-07, 01:41 PM	So I wouldn't have anything left to lose by squealing? :surrender
Paul H 03-09-07, 06:54 AM	Hmmmm There's just soooo many ways, if you go first! 1) Charge first 2) Summon something (Bag of Tricks, Rapid/Quickened summons etc) 3) Affect terrain (Entangle, etc) 4) FLY! 5) Become Invisible/Completely concealed, etc 6) Stand behind another PC (remaining out of reach wpn range) 7) Get the party's Uber Bard to stop fight 8) Cast Confuse on enemy (Doesn't always work) 9) Kill/disintegrate etc the opposition before they act! (Has been done)! :evillaugh 10 Run out of charge range! May be more - but it's too early for my 'thinking head'. LOL Cheers Paul H
Timlagor 03-09-07, 09:40 AM	11) Mess the terrain in any number of ways 12) Blind them (half-move speed even if they do know where you are) 13) Ready to put a wall (Force for preference) in front of them once they get up speed. 14) Cometary Collision! (ok they still get to charge but you get to charge harder! (and they can't charge the 'squishy'). 15) Trip them 16) Disarm them (well they can continue theri charge..) 0) 5'step into their reach. (of course this won't work if there is a sane Judge)
cetiken 03-11-07, 06:03 PM	Create illusionary tertian for them to fight their way though. It doesn't have to be a pit for flying guys make a stand of trees grow up around you and convince 'm you're a druid. Always working on new uses for Silent Image.
ithardin 03-15-07, 05:18 PM	Though this doesn't "stop" them from charging, the feat "Cometary Collision" from the PH2 lets you in interrupt the charge with one of your own.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-15-07, 06:18 PM	Though this doesn't "stop" them from charging, the feat "Cometary Collision" from the PH2 lets you in interrupt the charge with one of your own. It can stop them from charging their intended target, if it was someone other than the one using commetary collision. Assuming your cometary collision breaks their original charge line...
Timlagor 03-16-07, 12:32 AM	Well if they keep going you can always hit them again as they go past :D
Zanzibax 03-16-07, 10:51 AM	Create illusionary tertian for them to fight their way though. It doesn't have to be a pit for flying guys make a stand of trees grow up around you and convince 'm you're a druid. Always working on new uses for Silent Image. Yeah? Draw up an Image of a human in full plate armor swinging a reach weapon adjacent to their path. A spiked chain should catch their attention, even if a halberd is what calls out from my heart.
ithardin 03-16-07, 11:36 AM	Dwarven Warpike (2d6 damage, double damage when readied vs. a charge). Its open access now.
ithardin 03-16-07, 11:37 AM	It can stop them from charging their intended target, if it was someone other than the one using commetary collision. Assuming your cometary collision breaks their original charge line... I guess what I was inferring that they can't continue their own charge if they are dead because of your cometary collision:D The best defense is a good offense!
Jay_Ibero_911 03-16-07, 11:45 AM	I guess what I was inferring that they can't continue their own charge if they are dead because of your cometary collision:D The best defense is a good offense! Hey, you could also Bull Rush as part of your charge to completely screw his charge up.