I Wanna Be a Dwarven Smith... [Archive] - Wizards Community

I Wanna Be a Dwarven Smith... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Phoenixcommander
10-07-04, 04:08 AM I was wondering if anyone can answer the following:
If an arcane or divine spellcaster can create magical items, potions, scrolls, etc. And many characters can spend time units to earn extra gold doing proffesion/crafts/pickpocketing etc...why cannot someone with the appropriate craft skill design their own weapons/armor/equipment up to masterwork level at say half the cost? This could add a lot of depth to a dwarven smith lets say, and their items would be personalized! ;)

I was just wondering if this has ever come up or if anyone thinks it is worth suggesting to the Triads & the Circle.

Thanks for your time,

Andrew
SteveMND
10-07-04, 11:59 AM Yes, it has been brought up many, many times over the last two years. Unfortunately, the Circle is still of the opinion that it's not worth it for the campaign.

Needless to say, many people disagree with that assessement, but all we can do is to just keep proposing it each time we get the opportunity. Hopefully, if enough people chime in during those periods to request that the rules for the Craft skill be updated in LG to follow Core Rules, it may eventually create the requested change.

As to why the Circle is still so reluctant to add the proper use of the Craft skill to the game, I'm not sure. The argument I've heard most often was that it would add too much complexity for too little benefit, but I don't feel that argument holds any water. It would only take something like two or three paragraphs, at most, to explain how crafting is done within the campaign, and I think the role-playing benefits it would create would be worth far more than an handful of sentences in the LGCS.

Ah well. Time will tell.
heirodule
10-07-04, 04:06 PM I find it interesting that Craft was allowed in the first year of the campaign, but that it was taken away. Too bad really.

One offered reason was that Radney-McFarland stated that D&D should be all about maximized characters, and that he wanted to discourage PCs from dumping skill points into Crafts or Professions, or what have you, when they should be maximizing their combat potential.

the RPGA should realize that "shopkeeping" and "crafting" something alot of folks who play MMORPGs are into it for, and allow some of that to take place in LG.

Somebody should write a mod with a benefit:
Favor of the Smith: Joe Smith is so happy you helped him he lets you use his forge. Make any weapon or armor you want using an appropriate craft skill with +2 from the high quality of the forge. TU formula, etc...

Paul
SteveMND
10-07-04, 04:32 PM It was stripped out after Year One by the dismal RUP-2 fiasco (along with a great number of things). While the Year Three documents fixed most of the mistakes of Year Two, the use of Craft skills is one of a handful of things that was inexplicably left uncorrected.

Unfortunately, it's the occasional opinion like SRM's (or rather, his alledged comment; I heard it reported that he said much the same thing, but I haven't seen it personally) and others of that mindset which, unfortunately, have given the campaign a reputation for being an unsophisticated hack-and-slash grist mill, where the only meaure of a character is its maximum damage potential per round. :nonono:

One of the arguments I've also heard from people is that it wouldn't be worth it to have a PC craft their own weapons and armor and items, since that would eat up TUs for a minimal return on your investment, compared to just buying them outright. Which, IMHO, shows a dangerous lack of understanding of the entire concept of roleplaying, as opposed to roll-playing. The game is more than just a set of optimzed numbers (or at least, it should be).

Luckily, while that mindset may hold greater sway at the top, local regions have stronger control over their modules than Core mods do, so they can often help mitigate the excesses of the top. Lord knows if it wasn't for the work of my local region and its Triad, I'd have left the campaign long ago.
dr_who
10-09-04, 11:11 PM I hate to toot my region's own horn too much here, but we have quite a bit of depth when it comes to role-playing. I think the notion of "wasting" skill points on things like Craft and Profession is absolutely ridiculous. Those are the things that make a character a character! I have a Sorcerer (short on skill points anyway) who has ranks in two different Profession skills, neither of which has ever given any in-game benefits in terms of gaining gold or xp. However, they have both given many, many, many opportunities for role-playing, which is why I play the game.

Don't get me wrong, I think LG does a great job of equalizing the playing field without stooping to cater to the lowest common denominator of player. The policies that are in place are mostly there to prevent abuse. You know, there are weird "blue-laws" on the books in just about every state, and it's because at some point in time some farmer wanted his daughter to marry the family pig and there wasn't a law against it. I'm sure it's much the same in LG.

My recommendation is to find a way to play your character the way you want to play it within the bounds that have been set. For example, there is nothing stopping a character with the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill from modifying an existing weapon for the purposes of flavor. No DM in his right mind would argue that such a character could not possess a sword with his family's crest emblazoned on the hilt unless for some crazy reason there was some impact in a certain module. So, just buy a masterwork sword at full PHB cost and tell everyone that you made it. It can look like whatever you want , and have whatever history you desire, as long as it still does 1d8 damage and costs you an extra 300gp!

word.
Phoenixcommander
10-14-04, 02:00 AM I hate to toot my region's own horn too much here, but we have quite a bit of depth when it comes to role-playing. I think the notion of "wasting" skill points on things like Craft and Profession is absolutely ridiculous. Those are the things that make a character a character! I have a Sorcerer (short on skill points anyway) who has ranks in two different Profession skills, neither of which has ever given any in-game benefits in terms of gaining gold or xp. However, they have both given many, many, many opportunities for role-playing, which is why I play the game.

Don't get me wrong, I think LG does a great job of equalizing the playing field without stooping to cater to the lowest common denominator of player. The policies that are in place are mostly there to prevent abuse. You know, there are weird "blue-laws" on the books in just about every state, and it's because at some point in time some farmer wanted his daughter to marry the family pig and there wasn't a law against it. I'm sure it's much the same in LG.

[QUOTE]My recommendation is to find a way to play your character the way you want to play it within the bounds that have been set. For example, there is nothing stopping a character with the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill from modifying an existing weapon for the purposes of flavor. No DM in his right mind would argue that such a character could not possess a sword with his family's crest emblazoned on the hilt unless for some crazy reason there was some impact in a certain module. So, just buy a masterwork sword at full PHB cost and tell everyone that you made it. It can look like whatever you want , and have whatever history you desire, as long as it still does 1d8 damage and costs you an extra 300gp!

I agree completely, and have done this now. But I am just sad at the fact that so much energy is put into "crafting magic items" in the form of item creation sheets, etc. (which by the way could very well be used for crafting regular items) And yes I know the cost does not really balance out but in the end it could mean a lot to a starting character who may not have the gold to buy a masterwork weapon yet (but he could afford half that amount and a TU or so to craft his very own signature weapon, armor, etc.) Just a thought. And I really don't see how that would be abusive to the "system" or unbalancing at all...just helpfull to encourage brand new players to "get into" their characters.

Thanks for all your input though, it's nice to know I am not alone out here.

Andrew T.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Phoenixcommander 10-07-04, 04:08 AM	I was wondering if anyone can answer the following: If an arcane or divine spellcaster can create magical items, potions, scrolls, etc. And many characters can spend time units to earn extra gold doing proffesion/crafts/pickpocketing etc...why cannot someone with the appropriate craft skill design their own weapons/armor/equipment up to masterwork level at say half the cost? This could add a lot of depth to a dwarven smith lets say, and their items would be personalized! ;) I was just wondering if this has ever come up or if anyone thinks it is worth suggesting to the Triads & the Circle. Thanks for your time, Andrew
SteveMND 10-07-04, 11:59 AM	Yes, it has been brought up many, many times over the last two years. Unfortunately, the Circle is still of the opinion that it's not worth it for the campaign. Needless to say, many people disagree with that assessement, but all we can do is to just keep proposing it each time we get the opportunity. Hopefully, if enough people chime in during those periods to request that the rules for the Craft skill be updated in LG to follow Core Rules, it may eventually create the requested change. As to why the Circle is still so reluctant to add the proper use of the Craft skill to the game, I'm not sure. The argument I've heard most often was that it would add too much complexity for too little benefit, but I don't feel that argument holds any water. It would only take something like two or three paragraphs, at most, to explain how crafting is done within the campaign, and I think the role-playing benefits it would create would be worth far more than an handful of sentences in the LGCS. Ah well. Time will tell.
heirodule 10-07-04, 04:06 PM	I find it interesting that Craft was allowed in the first year of the campaign, but that it was taken away. Too bad really. One offered reason was that Radney-McFarland stated that D&D should be all about maximized characters, and that he wanted to discourage PCs from dumping skill points into Crafts or Professions, or what have you, when they should be maximizing their combat potential. the RPGA should realize that "shopkeeping" and "crafting" something alot of folks who play MMORPGs are into it for, and allow some of that to take place in LG. Somebody should write a mod with a benefit: Favor of the Smith: Joe Smith is so happy you helped him he lets you use his forge. Make any weapon or armor you want using an appropriate craft skill with +2 from the high quality of the forge. TU formula, etc... Paul
SteveMND 10-07-04, 04:32 PM	It was stripped out after Year One by the dismal RUP-2 fiasco (along with a great number of things). While the Year Three documents fixed most of the mistakes of Year Two, the use of Craft skills is one of a handful of things that was inexplicably left uncorrected. Unfortunately, it's the occasional opinion like SRM's (or rather, his alledged comment; I heard it reported that he said much the same thing, but I haven't seen it personally) and others of that mindset which, unfortunately, have given the campaign a reputation for being an unsophisticated hack-and-slash grist mill, where the only meaure of a character is its maximum damage potential per round. :nonono: One of the arguments I've also heard from people is that it wouldn't be worth it to have a PC craft their own weapons and armor and items, since that would eat up TUs for a minimal return on your investment, compared to just buying them outright. Which, IMHO, shows a dangerous lack of understanding of the entire concept of roleplaying, as opposed to roll-playing. The game is more than just a set of optimzed numbers (or at least, it should be). Luckily, while that mindset may hold greater sway at the top, local regions have stronger control over their modules than Core mods do, so they can often help mitigate the excesses of the top. Lord knows if it wasn't for the work of my local region and its Triad, I'd have left the campaign long ago.
dr_who 10-09-04, 11:11 PM	I hate to toot my region's own horn too much here, but we have quite a bit of depth when it comes to role-playing. I think the notion of "wasting" skill points on things like Craft and Profession is absolutely ridiculous. Those are the things that make a character a character! I have a Sorcerer (short on skill points anyway) who has ranks in two different Profession skills, neither of which has ever given any in-game benefits in terms of gaining gold or xp. However, they have both given many, many, many opportunities for role-playing, which is why I play the game. Don't get me wrong, I think LG does a great job of equalizing the playing field without stooping to cater to the lowest common denominator of player. The policies that are in place are mostly there to prevent abuse. You know, there are weird "blue-laws" on the books in just about every state, and it's because at some point in time some farmer wanted his daughter to marry the family pig and there wasn't a law against it. I'm sure it's much the same in LG. My recommendation is to find a way to play your character the way you want to play it within the bounds that have been set. For example, there is nothing stopping a character with the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill from modifying an existing weapon for the purposes of flavor. No DM in his right mind would argue that such a character could not possess a sword with his family's crest emblazoned on the hilt unless for some crazy reason there was some impact in a certain module. So, just buy a masterwork sword at full PHB cost and tell everyone that you made it. It can look like whatever you want , and have whatever history you desire, as long as it still does 1d8 damage and costs you an extra 300gp! word.
Phoenixcommander 10-14-04, 02:00 AM	I hate to toot my region's own horn too much here, but we have quite a bit of depth when it comes to role-playing. I think the notion of "wasting" skill points on things like Craft and Profession is absolutely ridiculous. Those are the things that make a character a character! I have a Sorcerer (short on skill points anyway) who has ranks in two different Profession skills, neither of which has ever given any in-game benefits in terms of gaining gold or xp. However, they have both given many, many, many opportunities for role-playing, which is why I play the game. Don't get me wrong, I think LG does a great job of equalizing the playing field without stooping to cater to the lowest common denominator of player. The policies that are in place are mostly there to prevent abuse. You know, there are weird "blue-laws" on the books in just about every state, and it's because at some point in time some farmer wanted his daughter to marry the family pig and there wasn't a law against it. I'm sure it's much the same in LG. [QUOTE]My recommendation is to find a way to play your character the way you want to play it within the bounds that have been set. For example, there is nothing stopping a character with the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill from modifying an existing weapon for the purposes of flavor. No DM in his right mind would argue that such a character could not possess a sword with his family's crest emblazoned on the hilt unless for some crazy reason there was some impact in a certain module. So, just buy a masterwork sword at full PHB cost and tell everyone that you made it. It can look like whatever you want , and have whatever history you desire, as long as it still does 1d8 damage and costs you an extra 300gp! I agree completely, and have done this now. But I am just sad at the fact that so much energy is put into "crafting magic items" in the form of item creation sheets, etc. (which by the way could very well be used for crafting regular items) And yes I know the cost does not really balance out but in the end it could mean a lot to a starting character who may not have the gold to buy a masterwork weapon yet (but he could afford half that amount and a TU or so to craft his very own signature weapon, armor, etc.) Just a thought. And I really don't see how that would be abusive to the "system" or unbalancing at all...just helpfull to encourage brand new players to "get into" their characters. Thanks for all your input though, it's nice to know I am not alone out here. Andrew T.