In need of a Brain Trust [Archive] - Wizards Community

In need of a Brain Trust [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ToddMorgan
05-30-07, 12:00 PM Here's the situation:

Long campaign, two party members dead. Nearest town is a couple hundred miles away but has agreed to give us raise dead scrolls. A nearby villa has offered to provide a way to get us those scrolls, but it would be 5 days round trip, in which time, our mission could become dangerous. Any faster way of getting the scrolls to us? The town in question doesn't have a high enough mage to teleport. I was thinking of having the town use a low level bard with the spell Animal Messenger? Anyone else have any ideas?
_metz_
05-30-07, 12:13 PM Overland flight?

The animal Messenger will take as long to get there as a person in theory, if not longer.

If you have a way of contacting the town (sending or something) hire some people to deliver the scrolls to you (2.5 days time)

Aside from issues with vehicles etc can't think of anyway faster than that.
kenobi65
05-30-07, 12:27 PM The animal Messenger will take as long to get there as a person in theory, if not longer.

Actually, it might help...but only might. You could put animal messenger on a hawk, which has a fly speed of 60 (in other words, twice as fast as a human could walk). Assuming that the bard you could hire to do this is very familiar with the town in question, and can send the hawk to a specific location where someone will get the message (and be able to do something about it), in theory, that could cut the "outbound" trip in half, more or less.

Overland flight?

The problem with overland flight is that it's a 5th level wizard spell...and if the town doesn't have a wizard who's high enough level to cast teleport (also a 5th level spell), then overland flight is out of the question, too.

And that, really, is the crux of the problem...most spells that are going to have some chance of getting this done quickly are wizard spells of 5th level or higher. :(

If you have a way of contacting the town (sending or something) hire some people to deliver the scrolls to you (2.5 days time)

Sending is what came to mind to me, too. In theory, that could at least cut out the time to travel to the town with the request, assuming that your "help" at the villa has enough pull to get the scrolls sent without an immediate payment. But, even that requires you to have a Cleric 7 or Wizard 9 with you at the moment.

Edit: Oooh, just thought of something...if the town can supply scrolls of raise dead, this implies that they have a cleric of 9th level or higher. Once said cleric gets the message, he casts lesser planar ally (a 4th level spell) to summon a hound archon, who can then use his greater teleport ability to bring the scrolls to you (though, in this case, the cleric will need to be able to give the archon a good description of where you are).
ToddMorgan
05-30-07, 12:34 PM We have a cleric 8 for sending so that's not a problem. Bard with Animal Messenger seems like it could work in theory correct? Otherwise messengers sound good as well
kenobi65
05-30-07, 12:39 PM See my edit...and if you have a Cleric 8, you could have him cast lesser planar ally, requesting that the archon teleport to the town, get the scrolls, and teleport back to you.
Timlagor
05-30-07, 12:57 PM A Summoned Archon can't teleport.

Anyone have a trained Hippogriff? (Improved Familiar?)
Failing that you're pretty much going with the Hawk messenger ..and someone ought to have one as a familiar.
kenobi65
05-30-07, 01:33 PM A Summoned Archon can't teleport.

Lesser planar ally is a Conjuration (calling), not a Conjuration (summoning)...I don't know if that makes a difference.

(And I didn't know that summoned creatures can't use teleport abilities...where is that stated?)

(Edit: Oh, I see, it's in the description of Summon Monster I. But, again, I think that since lesser planar ally isn't a summoning, it wouldn't have that limitation.)
_metz_
05-30-07, 01:54 PM Lesser planar ally is a Conjuration (calling), not a Conjuration (summoning)...I don't know if that makes a difference.

(And I didn't know that summoned creatures can't use teleport abilities...where is that stated?)

(Edit: Oh, I see, it's in the description of Summon Monster I. But, again, I think that since lesser planar ally isn't a summoning, it wouldn't have that limitation.)

There is a distinct difference in called creatures and summoned creatures.

A called Creature retains all its abilities and is NOT summoned. Furthermore, it can even die on the material plane (unlike a summoned creature). It is as if it came via a Plane Shift, or a Gate.

From SRD:

Calling: A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.

Planar Ally, Lesser

Conjuration (Calling) [see text]
Level: Clr 4 Components: V, S, DF, XP
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One called elemental or outsider of 6 HD or less
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

By casting this spell, you request your deity to send you an elemental or outsider (of 6 HD or less) of the deity’s choice. If you serve no particular deity, the spell is a general plea answered by a creature sharing your philosophical alignment. If you know an individual creature’s name, you may request that individual by speaking the name during the spell (though you might get a different creature anyway).

You may ask the creature to perform one task in exchange for a payment from you. Tasks might range from the simple to the complex. You must be able to communicate with the creature called in order to bargain for its services.

The creature called requires a payment for its services. This payment can take a variety of forms, from donating gold or magic items to an allied temple, to a gift given directly to the creature, to some other action on your part that matches the creature’s alignment and goals. Regardless, this payment must be made before the creature agrees to perform any services. The bargaining takes at least 1 round, so any actions by the creature begin in the round after it arrives.

A task taking up to 1 minute per caster level requires a payment of 100 gp per HD of the creature called. For a task taking up to 1 hour per caster level, the creature requires a payment of 500 gp per HD. A long-term task, one requiring up to one day per caster level, requires a payment of 1,000 gp per HD.

A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift. Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature). However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment.

At the end of its task, or when the duration bargained for expires, the creature returns to its home plane (after reporting back to you, if appropriate and possible).

Unlike Summon monster there is no statement of being unable to teleport, etc.

"A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them." - this is a spell description entry referring to conjuration (summoning) which planar ally is NOT.

So its perfectly legal, in fact I have done it before. (Gotten a Hound Archon to teleport around in Battle)

As such It would be the smartest option to go. Calling an Archon would be a simple, easy , and would cost you not much at all.
Timlagor
05-30-07, 02:57 PM Yeah Calling is fine.. didn't realise it wasn't a Summoning spell... I think there is a section somewhere else where it makes that rule apply to all Summoning spells but since it's not relevant I'm not going to go looking ;)

NB: you might not get a Hound Archon though -it's the Deity's choice
kenobi65
05-30-07, 03:05 PM NB: you might not get a Hound Archon though -it's the Deity's choice

True enough, though all archons get greater teleport at will. Not sure about eladrins (they're not in the SRD).
ToddMorgan
05-30-07, 04:11 PM Thank you all so much, your ideas worked. You are all officially my A #1 Brain Trust.

Best Brain Trust ever:
kenobi65
Timlagor
_metz_

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToddMorgan 05-30-07, 12:00 PM	Here's the situation: Long campaign, two party members dead. Nearest town is a couple hundred miles away but has agreed to give us raise dead scrolls. A nearby villa has offered to provide a way to get us those scrolls, but it would be 5 days round trip, in which time, our mission could become dangerous. Any faster way of getting the scrolls to us? The town in question doesn't have a high enough mage to teleport. I was thinking of having the town use a low level bard with the spell Animal Messenger? Anyone else have any ideas?
_metz_ 05-30-07, 12:13 PM	Overland flight? The animal Messenger will take as long to get there as a person in theory, if not longer. If you have a way of contacting the town (sending or something) hire some people to deliver the scrolls to you (2.5 days time) Aside from issues with vehicles etc can't think of anyway faster than that.
kenobi65 05-30-07, 12:27 PM	The animal Messenger will take as long to get there as a person in theory, if not longer. Actually, it might help...but only might. You could put animal messenger on a hawk, which has a fly speed of 60 (in other words, twice as fast as a human could walk). Assuming that the bard you could hire to do this is very familiar with the town in question, and can send the hawk to a specific location where someone will get the message (and be able to do something about it), in theory, that could cut the "outbound" trip in half, more or less. Overland flight? The problem with overland flight is that it's a 5th level wizard spell...and if the town doesn't have a wizard who's high enough level to cast teleport (also a 5th level spell), then overland flight is out of the question, too. And that, really, is the crux of the problem...most spells that are going to have some chance of getting this done quickly are wizard spells of 5th level or higher. :( If you have a way of contacting the town (sending or something) hire some people to deliver the scrolls to you (2.5 days time) Sending is what came to mind to me, too. In theory, that could at least cut out the time to travel to the town with the request, assuming that your "help" at the villa has enough pull to get the scrolls sent without an immediate payment. But, even that requires you to have a Cleric 7 or Wizard 9 with you at the moment. Edit: Oooh, just thought of something...if the town can supply scrolls of raise dead, this implies that they have a cleric of 9th level or higher. Once said cleric gets the message, he casts lesser planar ally (a 4th level spell) to summon a hound archon, who can then use his greater teleport ability to bring the scrolls to you (though, in this case, the cleric will need to be able to give the archon a good description of where you are).
ToddMorgan 05-30-07, 12:34 PM	We have a cleric 8 for sending so that's not a problem. Bard with Animal Messenger seems like it could work in theory correct? Otherwise messengers sound good as well
kenobi65 05-30-07, 12:39 PM	See my edit...and if you have a Cleric 8, you could have him cast lesser planar ally, requesting that the archon teleport to the town, get the scrolls, and teleport back to you.
Timlagor 05-30-07, 12:57 PM	A Summoned Archon can't teleport. Anyone have a trained Hippogriff? (Improved Familiar?) Failing that you're pretty much going with the Hawk messenger ..and someone ought to have one as a familiar.
kenobi65 05-30-07, 01:33 PM	A Summoned Archon can't teleport. Lesser planar ally is a Conjuration (calling), not a Conjuration (summoning)...I don't know if that makes a difference. (And I didn't know that summoned creatures can't use teleport abilities...where is that stated?) (Edit: Oh, I see, it's in the description of Summon Monster I. But, again, I think that since lesser planar ally isn't a summoning, it wouldn't have that limitation.)
_metz_ 05-30-07, 01:54 PM	Lesser planar ally is a Conjuration (calling), not a Conjuration (summoning)...I don't know if that makes a difference. (And I didn't know that summoned creatures can't use teleport abilities...where is that stated?) (Edit: Oh, I see, it's in the description of Summon Monster I. But, again, I think that since lesser planar ally isn't a summoning, it wouldn't have that limitation.) There is a distinct difference in called creatures and summoned creatures. A called Creature retains all its abilities and is NOT summoned. Furthermore, it can even die on the material plane (unlike a summoned creature). It is as if it came via a Plane Shift, or a Gate. From SRD: Calling: A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled. Planar Ally, Lesser Conjuration (Calling) [see text] Level: Clr 4 Components: V, S, DF, XP Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: One called elemental or outsider of 6 HD or less Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No By casting this spell, you request your deity to send you an elemental or outsider (of 6 HD or less) of the deity’s choice. If you serve no particular deity, the spell is a general plea answered by a creature sharing your philosophical alignment. If you know an individual creature’s name, you may request that individual by speaking the name during the spell (though you might get a different creature anyway). You may ask the creature to perform one task in exchange for a payment from you. Tasks might range from the simple to the complex. You must be able to communicate with the creature called in order to bargain for its services. The creature called requires a payment for its services. This payment can take a variety of forms, from donating gold or magic items to an allied temple, to a gift given directly to the creature, to some other action on your part that matches the creature’s alignment and goals. Regardless, this payment must be made before the creature agrees to perform any services. The bargaining takes at least 1 round, so any actions by the creature begin in the round after it arrives. A task taking up to 1 minute per caster level requires a payment of 100 gp per HD of the creature called. For a task taking up to 1 hour per caster level, the creature requires a payment of 500 gp per HD. A long-term task, one requiring up to one day per caster level, requires a payment of 1,000 gp per HD. A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift. Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature). However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment. At the end of its task, or when the duration bargained for expires, the creature returns to its home plane (after reporting back to you, if appropriate and possible). Unlike Summon monster there is no statement of being unable to teleport, etc. "A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them." - this is a spell description entry referring to conjuration (summoning) which planar ally is NOT. So its perfectly legal, in fact I have done it before. (Gotten a Hound Archon to teleport around in Battle) As such It would be the smartest option to go. Calling an Archon would be a simple, easy , and would cost you not much at all.
Timlagor 05-30-07, 02:57 PM	Yeah Calling is fine.. didn't realise it wasn't a Summoning spell... I think there is a section somewhere else where it makes that rule apply to all Summoning spells but since it's not relevant I'm not going to go looking ;) NB: you might not get a Hound Archon though -it's the Deity's choice
kenobi65 05-30-07, 03:05 PM	NB: you might not get a Hound Archon though -it's the Deity's choice True enough, though all archons get greater teleport at will. Not sure about eladrins (they're not in the SRD).
ToddMorgan 05-30-07, 04:11 PM	Thank you all so much, your ideas worked. You are all officially my A #1 Brain Trust. Best Brain Trust ever: kenobi65 Timlagor _metz_