Intelligent Bonus Spells at first level question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Intelligent Bonus Spells at first level question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
psgj
02-28-06, 10:06 AM Maybe this question belongs on a different board, but this occurred during a living greyhawk session. I created a wizard and was going through an intro module (the wizard is first level). My wizard's intelligence is 16. On page 8, Table 1-1, of the players handbook it shows that I get a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level bonus spell. On the first paragraph of that page it states that, "She will not actually get the bonus 2nd-level spell [and 3rd level spell] until she is a 3rd-level [and 5th level] wizard, since that's the minimum level a wizard must be to cast 2nd-level [and 3rd level] spells."

On page 178 of the players handbook, second column, 1st paragraph, it says that the spells are spell slots and "a spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell."

My interpretation is that, even though I cannot use the 2nd and 3rd-level bonus spells (because I am not at a high enough level) yet, these are slots that I can fill with cantrips or 1st-level spells.

The session DM said that I could not use these two bonus spells at all.

So who is correct? In my home campaign I use my interpretation and will continue to do so, but this is RPGA so I want to do it properly.

thanks,

Pat
Paul H
02-28-06, 11:05 AM Hi

You don't get the extra spell slots until you actually have access to higher level spells.
Ie. Int 16 grants 1 extra slot at 1st lvl, another 2nd lvl slot at 3rd, another at 3rd lvl slot at 5th.

Don't forget, with Int 16 you start character knowing more spells.
(Spells known is all cantrips, plus 3+Int modifier 1st lvl).

The reference to using higher lvl slots for spells is that you could use 3rd lvl slot for 1st lvl spells. (Though you probably wouldn't, exept for metamagic feats). You still wouldn't get access to higher lvl slots until you get correct lvl to cast those spells, eg 2nd lvl slot at 3rd lvl Wizard.

Cheers
Paul H
kenobi65
02-28-06, 11:07 AM Sorry, you're off on this one.

Yes, you can fill spell slots with lower-level spells, but you have to actually *have* the spell slots to do it.

And, you don't get your bonus spell slots due to high Intelligence (or whatever your stat is for spellcasting) until you actually can cast a spell of that level. Until the relevant table for your class indicates that you can cast spells of a particular level, you have no "spell slots per day" for that level, not even your "bonus slot" for high Intelligence.

Your quote from p. 8 of the PHB pretty clearly states: you don't get your bonus 2nd level spell slot until you're a 3rd level wizard, you don't get your bonus 3rd level spell slot until you're a 5th level wizard, etc.

For another illustration, look at the Ranger's table in the Classes section of the Player's Handbook. You'll note that a 4th level Ranger gets "0" 1st level spells per day; this is intentionally different from the "-" that is listed under 1st level spells for a 1st-3rd level Ranger.

In the text of the Ranger's section, under Spells, it explains:
When (the table) indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
psgj 02-28-06, 10:06 AM	Maybe this question belongs on a different board, but this occurred during a living greyhawk session. I created a wizard and was going through an intro module (the wizard is first level). My wizard's intelligence is 16. On page 8, Table 1-1, of the players handbook it shows that I get a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level bonus spell. On the first paragraph of that page it states that, "She will not actually get the bonus 2nd-level spell [and 3rd level spell] until she is a 3rd-level [and 5th level] wizard, since that's the minimum level a wizard must be to cast 2nd-level [and 3rd level] spells." On page 178 of the players handbook, second column, 1st paragraph, it says that the spells are spell slots and "a spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell." My interpretation is that, even though I cannot use the 2nd and 3rd-level bonus spells (because I am not at a high enough level) yet, these are slots that I can fill with cantrips or 1st-level spells. The session DM said that I could not use these two bonus spells at all. So who is correct? In my home campaign I use my interpretation and will continue to do so, but this is RPGA so I want to do it properly. thanks, Pat
Paul H 02-28-06, 11:05 AM	Hi You don't get the extra spell slots until you actually have access to higher level spells. Ie. Int 16 grants 1 extra slot at 1st lvl, another 2nd lvl slot at 3rd, another at 3rd lvl slot at 5th. Don't forget, with Int 16 you start character knowing more spells. (Spells known is all cantrips, plus 3+Int modifier 1st lvl). The reference to using higher lvl slots for spells is that you could use 3rd lvl slot for 1st lvl spells. (Though you probably wouldn't, exept for metamagic feats). You still wouldn't get access to higher lvl slots until you get correct lvl to cast those spells, eg 2nd lvl slot at 3rd lvl Wizard. Cheers Paul H
kenobi65 02-28-06, 11:07 AM	Sorry, you're off on this one. Yes, you can fill spell slots with lower-level spells, but you have to actually have the spell slots to do it. And, you don't get your bonus spell slots due to high Intelligence (or whatever your stat is for spellcasting) until you actually can cast a spell of that level. Until the relevant table for your class indicates that you can cast spells of a particular level, you have no "spell slots per day" for that level, not even your "bonus slot" for high Intelligence. Your quote from p. 8 of the PHB pretty clearly states: you don't get your bonus 2nd level spell slot until you're a 3rd level wizard, you don't get your bonus 3rd level spell slot until you're a 5th level wizard, etc. For another illustration, look at the Ranger's table in the Classes section of the Player's Handbook. You'll note that a 4th level Ranger gets "0" 1st level spells per day; this is intentionally different from the "-" that is listed under 1st level spells for a 1st-3rd level Ranger. In the text of the Ranger's section, under Spells, it explains: When (the table) indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level.