Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puggle Halfwine 12-13-05, 05:44 AM	The D&D FAQ says that you can jump over obstacles as part of a charge using a jump check. Does this mean you can jump over characters in the way? A medium character only occupies a 5ftx5ft square, so assuming you had 20ft runup that's only a DC 15 jump check (5ft up x2 plus 5ft across) and a riding dog has +4 racial jump bonus, +4 for having 40ft movement, +4 ranks in the jump skill, +2 strength for a total of +14... so I assume you can auto make a jump check to jump over a single character in your way. Is this possible?
draxynnic 12-13-05, 07:28 AM	*hits the books* Actually, to jump over a 5' obstacle you'd need a DC 20 check - remember, DCs are quadrupled when looking for height ;). To maintain the momentum of a charge, I'd probably rule that it needs to be a long jump - which means there'd have to be enough room on either side to jump, clear the height at the middle of the jump, and land on the other side. If you have enough room to do that and you make the check, I'd allow it.
Madfox11 12-13-05, 10:29 AM	SRD: A long jump is a horizontal jump, made across a gap like a chasm or stream. At the *midpoint* of the jump, you attain a *vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance*. The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet). So to jump over a typical small sized character, 3 ft tall, you need to jump 12 ft. far. So (a) you need to succeed at a DC 15 Jump check (to keep it simple), (b) need 5 ft. before and after the small sized character and (c) 20 ft. running start. Jumping over a medium sized character requires 25 feet of space and a DC 25 Jump check. If (c) is incorrect, the DCs need to be doubled. If the check fails, a collision is likely, but there are no rules to deal with that. I would probably treat it as a bull's rush against the creature the character tried to jump over. High jump DCs do not apply, quote from SRD: A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead. It does not include forward momentum. Note that this question does not really belong under this part of forum. Living Greyhawk only rarelty change rule mechanics and then only because the rules clash with the nature of the campaign.
DuctShuiTengu 12-13-05, 12:54 PM	Wow. Way to neuter one of the abilities of half a dozen mobility-based combat characters. "Hey look, when you get to 7th level, you can jump over stuff while charging, just like everyone else is able to do anyway." Seriously, I hate to :censored: but what were they smoking when they wrote the latest FAQ? It's supposed to be a clarification of the rules, not a rewrite of them.
solbergb 12-13-05, 02:13 PM	Actually the PHB jump rules pretty much indicate that jump is part of normal movement and a reasonable interpretation of them even pre-FAQ was to allow jumping charges, as long as it was a long-jump (you can't slow down in a charge). Leap attack and Mantis Leap also assumed you could jump during charges. So I'm not sure why you think the FAQ is doing anything strange here. The PRC abilities (usually something like "acrobatic charge") usually also provide benefits for charging across rougher terrrain than balance already allows and let you charge through allies. Note the jump DC's are high (the DM is likely to use the actual height of the enemy, not just the 5'x'5'x5' block, so the usual DC for a human opponent is more like 24 or 28, see the examples in the PHB), note that the guy you jump over WILL get an AOO unless you can clear 10' for a size sm or med enemy (that is a DC40 jump). Also note you need to travel 4 times the height of the jump, so to clear 5' in a charge, you need 10' before the enemy and 10' after the enemy, unless you want to attack in mid-air and blow your move action next round landing.
draxynnic 12-13-05, 07:12 PM	Indeed. Jumping over people in a charge does require a fairly specific set of circumstances - about 30' before the person you want to jump over (if they're Medium) for runup and gaining height, and another 10' afterwards to land. Considering that in most cases when your charge is blocked by a friend, said friend is closer than 30' and/or right in the face of the enemy - either of which effectively prevents jumping over them as a tactic. Incidentally, if a collision occurs, I'd treat the charge as an overrun of the jumpee, and the jumper wouldn't gain the benefit of Improved Overrun or Trample if they have it (as they aren't doing it deliberately, hence it stands to reason they aren't using the feat). This, of course, has the side-effect that the defender may choose to simply avoid, but the charge will still have failed - the jumper gets to their desired location if avoided (or if the jumper was knocked down), but since their 'attack' was the overrun attempt (presumably, even if dodged it was enough to break their momentum) they don't get to attack the original target. Actually, come to think of it, I'd probably let the jumper pull up somewhere between the original target and where they landed if they so chose and basically treat it like the overrun was the intention of the charge all along - except that since it wasn't, they still don't get feats. :D :P