Keen weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Keen weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GreatSiron
03-27-06, 09:07 PM Has anyone ever gotten access to a Keen weapon upgrade? I don't think I've even seen but one keen weapon on my AR, much less access to the upgrade. And how much does it cost? I don't think I will be able to take Improved Critical due to the fact that I still need to get Mobility and Spring Attack (I screwed up this build a long time ago, but its my main, and none of my other characters are near his level.)

He's a rogue/ranger by the way and planning on taking lvls in Swashbuckler for insightful strike. (His INT is WAY higher than his STR).
redgamer
03-27-06, 09:30 PM Its not that uncommon. The price is in the DMG. Its a +1 enhancement. Its also not that good. Lots of characters are good versus things that can be critted. Spend you money elsewhere.
GreatSiron
03-27-06, 09:36 PM Thanks. But what about Insightful Strike? It's also useless vs. things you can't crit. Is swashbuckler not a good choice? My character only has Str 10. (I made him before I realized how combat heavy LG is). Is this char just too messed up to be helped?
redgamer
03-28-06, 12:50 AM Rogue/Swashbuckler can be a good character. I would simply suggest that the flame enhancement or the like would be more useful. Try asking at the yahoo group lgchardiscussion to find people more experienced at keeping rogues useful in high level combat.
Arvagor
03-28-06, 10:34 AM Thanks. But what about Insightful Strike? It's also useless vs. things you can't crit. Is swashbuckler not a good choice? My character only has Str 10. (I made him before I realized how combat heavy LG is). Is this char just too messed up to be helped?A character -- any character -- is only as "messed up" as you think it is. The important thing to remember (which many players of rogues forget, IMO) is that if you are going up against things that are immune to crits/sneak attack, your role is no longer a front-line melee combatant. Although you may still be on the front line, you must switch to a support role, unless you have means of really damaging said creature (ghost strike, bane (undead), or disrupting weapons when fighting undead, etc.). That means any/all of the following:

1) Pick up Combat Expertise, at least 5 ranks of Tumble, and fight defensively. Doing this means you are still attacking (albeit, at big "-" to hit), which means you can still:

2) Provide flanks for the BDF, or

3) Use the 'Aid Another' action to add to the BDF's attack or AC

4) Never underestimate the power of mundane alchemical items, meaning tanglefoot bags, smokesticks, acid flasks, holy water, alchemist's fire, etc. (esp. tanglefoot bags!)

5) At first opportunity, pick up a Heward's handy haversack to carry all of these things, and use them liberally

I have had many people look at my rogue build (Rog5/Ftr2/Thf-Acr2; Str 13, Dex 20 (gloves of dex +2), Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10; Feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Feint, Jack of All Trades, Mobility, Staggering Strike, Weapon Finesse) and laugh, telling me I must killed every 5th mod or so. I'm the one laughing when I can point out that he's made it to 9th and not died once because I play him intelligently, even though I consider him a melee rogue and not a sneak rogue...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreatSiron 03-27-06, 09:07 PM	Has anyone ever gotten access to a Keen weapon upgrade? I don't think I've even seen but one keen weapon on my AR, much less access to the upgrade. And how much does it cost? I don't think I will be able to take Improved Critical due to the fact that I still need to get Mobility and Spring Attack (I screwed up this build a long time ago, but its my main, and none of my other characters are near his level.) He's a rogue/ranger by the way and planning on taking lvls in Swashbuckler for insightful strike. (His INT is WAY higher than his STR).
redgamer 03-27-06, 09:30 PM	Its not that uncommon. The price is in the DMG. Its a +1 enhancement. Its also not that good. Lots of characters are good versus things that can be critted. Spend you money elsewhere.
GreatSiron 03-27-06, 09:36 PM	Thanks. But what about Insightful Strike? It's also useless vs. things you can't crit. Is swashbuckler not a good choice? My character only has Str 10. (I made him before I realized how combat heavy LG is). Is this char just too messed up to be helped?
redgamer 03-28-06, 12:50 AM	Rogue/Swashbuckler can be a good character. I would simply suggest that the flame enhancement or the like would be more useful. Try asking at the yahoo group lgchardiscussion to find people more experienced at keeping rogues useful in high level combat.
Arvagor 03-28-06, 10:34 AM	Thanks. But what about Insightful Strike? It's also useless vs. things you can't crit. Is swashbuckler not a good choice? My character only has Str 10. (I made him before I realized how combat heavy LG is). Is this char just too messed up to be helped?A character -- any character -- is only as "messed up" as you think it is. The important thing to remember (which many players of rogues forget, IMO) is that if you are going up against things that are immune to crits/sneak attack, your role is no longer a front-line melee combatant. Although you may still be on the front line, you must switch to a support role, unless you have means of really damaging said creature (ghost strike, bane (undead), or disrupting weapons when fighting undead, etc.). That means any/all of the following: 1) Pick up Combat Expertise, at least 5 ranks of Tumble, and fight defensively. Doing this means you are still attacking (albeit, at big "-" to hit), which means you can still: 2) Provide flanks for the BDF, or 3) Use the 'Aid Another' action to add to the BDF's attack or AC 4) Never underestimate the power of mundane alchemical items, meaning tanglefoot bags, smokesticks, acid flasks, holy water, alchemist's fire, etc. (esp. tanglefoot bags!) 5) At first opportunity, pick up a Heward's handy haversack to carry all of these things, and use them liberally I have had many people look at my rogue build (Rog5/Ftr2/Thf-Acr2; Str 13, Dex 20 (gloves of dex +2), Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10; Feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Feint, Jack of All Trades, Mobility, Staggering Strike, Weapon Finesse) and laugh, telling me I must killed every 5th mod or so. I'm the one laughing when I can point out that he's made it to 9th and not died once because I play him intelligently, even though I consider him a melee rogue and not a sneak rogue...