Kobolds and reincarnate. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kobolds and reincarnate. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Jester
08-05-07, 12:36 AM So... technically kobolds are a playable race now. And they're on the reincarnation table in the PHB.
However the LGCS does say
If the result is a creature other than a dwarf, human, halfling, gnome, half-elf, halforc, or elf, the PC becomes an NPC and can never again be played as a PC in LG.

So according to that kobolds are not an option even if someone does take the risk and buy a reincarnate and has the card.

But the rules were written pre-card so, really, I'm wondering if they're going to be changed.

Besides, powergamers (and gnomes) might prefer death over becoming a kobold.
Puggle Halfwine
08-05-07, 12:38 AM Strictly going by the wording of that passage I'd say no- you can't become a kobold by reincarnate, even if you have the card in your stack at the time.

However... the spirit of the rules is equally important. I'd allow it at a table I was running, until it was specifically addressed by the circle.
Umbra_Kaitou
08-05-07, 12:53 AM As I recall somewhere on the forums, I thnk by Britt but atleast someone of power, has stated that the card cannot be used via a reincarnate, only at the actual creation of the character.

Personally, I think that its a lame ruling >_>.

Also, it has not been addressed, to my knowledge, if a kobold PC can be reincarnated as a kobold.

I'm sure the next dispell confusion will answer all of this
Puggle Halfwine
08-05-07, 07:03 AM If Britt said it then it MUST be true. CASE CLOSED!
Mithreinmaethor
08-05-07, 01:32 PM Not to mention you can not be reincarnated into a Centaur either, even after that option was opened up in CY 595. So dont expect it to be different for the Kobold.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-05-07, 01:57 PM Not to mention you can not be reincarnated into a Centaur either, even after that option was opened up in CY 595. So dont expect it to be different for the Kobold.

Centaurs and Kobolds can at least come back as centaurs and kobolds...
KarmaInferno
08-05-07, 05:01 PM I don't see "Kobold of the Mist Kingdom" on the Reincarnate list.

I see "Kobold", but that's a generic kobold, not the same thing at all.

The latter lacks all the history and background of the former, you see.

-karma
Jay_Ibero_911
08-05-07, 05:42 PM I don't see "Kobold of the Mist Kingdom" on the Reincarnate list.

I see "Kobold", but that's a generic kobold, not the same thing at all.

The latter lacks all the history and background of the former, you see.

-karma

Yes, but a 100 on a reincarnate roll lets you retain your current race.
GreatSiron
08-05-07, 05:59 PM That makes me wonder: if you play a kobold and he dies, if you reincarnate him, and the roll comes up kobold, what happens?
ShinAkuma2
08-05-07, 11:07 PM That makes me wonder: if you play a kobold and he dies, if you reincarnate him, and the roll comes up kobold, what happens?

You are the non-PC approved Kobold, and so are slain for XP by 1st level characters.
KarmaInferno
08-06-07, 03:45 PM Yes, but a 100 on a reincarnate roll lets you retain your current race.

Which is only good if you were a kobold to begin with.

I think the issue is players getting their existing non-kobold characters reincarnated as kobolds.

Which can't happen, even if you have the Kobold player reward card.

-karma
The_Jester
08-06-07, 11:11 PM Which is only good if you were a kobold to begin with.

I think the issue is players getting their existing non-kobold characters reincarnated as kobolds.

Which can't happen, even if you have the Kobold player reward card.

-karma

You make it sound like it'd be a choice, let alone a preferable one. If you're choosing reincarnate you're generally pretty hard up. Either financially or the state of the body.
And really, given the stats it could really, really hurt your class.
I can't see a rash of suicides as people repeatedly try to reincarnate as a kobold and get that net -4 to stats.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-07-07, 12:29 AM You make it sound like it'd be a choice, let alone a preferable one. If you're choosing reincarnate you're generally pretty hard up. Either financially or the state of the body.
And really, given the stats it could really, really hurt your class.
I can't see a rash of suicides as people repeatedly try to reincarnate as a kobold and get that net -4 to stats.

Hehe, the half-orc tank that dumped all his mental stats coming back as a kobold, going from:

Race:Half-Orc

STR-20
DEX-14
CON-14
INT-6
WIS-8
CHA-6

to:

Race:Kobold

STR-14
DEX-16
CON-12
INT-6
WIS-8
CHA-6
The_Jester
08-07-07, 09:57 AM Yeah, that's my point. You're hurting and desperate and decide to roll on reincarnate. You're taking the chance of losing your character forever. And you get kobold. You have the card, it's a player race now. But ohhhh, it's for new PCs only. Sorry, your character is gone forever.
Wraith235
08-08-07, 08:02 AM I can understandand it ....but there is a lack of specifics

if you start as a Grey elf and Roll Elf on that table ... no Garuntee that you'll end up a grey again ..... now if you rolled Kobold and had a % chance to become a mist Kingdom Kobold that would be ok
and IMHO ... I even think it would be acceptable that if anyone Rolled Kobold ... the DM asks the player ...."do you have the Kobold Reward card" and if the answer is yes roll on the chart(course that could be gotten around by ebay and whatnot)
TetsujinOni
08-08-07, 12:10 PM As I recall somewhere on the forums, I thnk by Britt but atleast someone of power, has stated that the card cannot be used via a reincarnate, only at the actual creation of the character.

Do people really want to waste the card slot to carry Sojourner from the Mist Kingdom in their stack, so that they could burn the card after the reincarnate roll to keep their PC?

That's the only way I can see this working in the campaign... Which means it won't ever be an issue, now will it? There's at least 5 cards any conceivable adventurer would want before Sojourner if they weren't already a MK Kobold...
Shieldhart91
08-08-07, 01:29 PM Sojourner of the Mist Kingdom is a CREATION card, not a re-creation card. Case in point, reincarnation makes this card not really useable. While I know it's a crappy ruling, and it seems that the Circle is trying to give us the shaft in terms of Reincarnate AGAIN, there's the point that you are a different kobold now- not a Sojourner. And as I remember, Britt did say that you cannot reincarnate into a Kobold and play- you're removed from the game.

Personally, I do think that the Reincarnation should be able to reincarnate you into a playable kobold. People won't notice if you're a "good" or "bad" kobold- they're gonna wanna kill you anyways. You're at a disadvantage, and the only reason for even wanting to be reincarnated as a kobold is for role-playing favor. Aside from that, not everyone who gets reincarnated WOULD have Sojourner from the Mist Kingdom, so that's probably another factor in the decision that you cannot reincarnate as a playable kobold.
uncawes
08-13-07, 07:22 AM Strictly going by the wording of that passage I'd say no- you can't become a kobold by reincarnate, even if you have the card in your stack at the time.

However... the spirit of the rules is equally important. I'd allow it at a table I was running, until it was specifically addressed by the circle.

Ah, but YOUR Circle dude is Colleen, not Britt. And when she finds out you're worshipping IUZ...
Hariman
08-14-07, 12:53 AM Yeah, that's my point. You're hurting and desperate and decide to roll on reincarnate. You're taking the chance of losing your character forever. And you get kobold. You have the card, it's a player race now. But ohhhh, it's for new PCs only. Sorry, your character is gone forever.

Unless you are already a Kobold Via the Kobold Card. That is the only exception.

Yeah, it sucks. Oh well, now you have to cope with still having that 16% chance of losing your character via reincarnation. Instead of 15%.
_metz_
08-15-07, 03:38 AM Hehe, the half-orc tank that dumped all his mental stats coming back as a kobold, going from:

Race:Half-Orc

STR-20
DEX-14
CON-14
INT-6
WIS-8
CHA-6

to:

Race:Kobold

STR-14
DEX-16
CON-12
INT-6
WIS-8
CHA-6

OR you are the Grey Elf Reincarnated as a Dwarf. (I have seen this.)

Stats:

Str: 6
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 20
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Reincarnated as Dwarf:

Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 20
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Check the point buys. I know I'd rather the second one as my wizard, even if I was slinging rays...

Reincarnate can be really stupid, and I think it gives out more problems than it solves.
Timlagor
08-15-07, 06:43 AM From 36vbp to 40vbp.. hmm that's only 8vbp less than the Dakon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Jester 08-05-07, 12:36 AM	So... technically kobolds are a playable race now. And they're on the reincarnation table in the PHB. However the LGCS does say If the result is a creature other than a dwarf, human, halfling, gnome, half-elf, halforc, or elf, the PC becomes an NPC and can never again be played as a PC in LG. So according to that kobolds are not an option even if someone does take the risk and buy a reincarnate and has the card. But the rules were written pre-card so, really, I'm wondering if they're going to be changed. Besides, powergamers (and gnomes) might prefer death over becoming a kobold.
Puggle Halfwine 08-05-07, 12:38 AM	Strictly going by the wording of that passage I'd say no- you can't become a kobold by reincarnate, even if you have the card in your stack at the time. However... the spirit of the rules is equally important. I'd allow it at a table I was running, until it was specifically addressed by the circle.
Umbra_Kaitou 08-05-07, 12:53 AM	As I recall somewhere on the forums, I thnk by Britt but atleast someone of power, has stated that the card cannot be used via a reincarnate, only at the actual creation of the character. Personally, I think that its a lame ruling >_>. Also, it has not been addressed, to my knowledge, if a kobold PC can be reincarnated as a kobold. I'm sure the next dispell confusion will answer all of this
Puggle Halfwine 08-05-07, 07:03 AM	If Britt said it then it MUST be true. CASE CLOSED!
Mithreinmaethor 08-05-07, 01:32 PM	Not to mention you can not be reincarnated into a Centaur either, even after that option was opened up in CY 595. So dont expect it to be different for the Kobold.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-05-07, 01:57 PM	Not to mention you can not be reincarnated into a Centaur either, even after that option was opened up in CY 595. So dont expect it to be different for the Kobold. Centaurs and Kobolds can at least come back as centaurs and kobolds...
KarmaInferno 08-05-07, 05:01 PM	I don't see "Kobold of the Mist Kingdom" on the Reincarnate list. I see "Kobold", but that's a generic kobold, not the same thing at all. The latter lacks all the history and background of the former, you see. -karma
Jay_Ibero_911 08-05-07, 05:42 PM	I don't see "Kobold of the Mist Kingdom" on the Reincarnate list. I see "Kobold", but that's a generic kobold, not the same thing at all. The latter lacks all the history and background of the former, you see. -karma Yes, but a 100 on a reincarnate roll lets you retain your current race.
GreatSiron 08-05-07, 05:59 PM	That makes me wonder: if you play a kobold and he dies, if you reincarnate him, and the roll comes up kobold, what happens?
ShinAkuma2 08-05-07, 11:07 PM	That makes me wonder: if you play a kobold and he dies, if you reincarnate him, and the roll comes up kobold, what happens? You are the non-PC approved Kobold, and so are slain for XP by 1st level characters.
KarmaInferno 08-06-07, 03:45 PM	Yes, but a 100 on a reincarnate roll lets you retain your current race. Which is only good if you were a kobold to begin with. I think the issue is players getting their existing non-kobold characters reincarnated as kobolds. Which can't happen, even if you have the Kobold player reward card. -karma
The_Jester 08-06-07, 11:11 PM	Which is only good if you were a kobold to begin with. I think the issue is players getting their existing non-kobold characters reincarnated as kobolds. Which can't happen, even if you have the Kobold player reward card. -karma You make it sound like it'd be a choice, let alone a preferable one. If you're choosing reincarnate you're generally pretty hard up. Either financially or the state of the body. And really, given the stats it could really, really hurt your class. I can't see a rash of suicides as people repeatedly try to reincarnate as a kobold and get that net -4 to stats.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-07-07, 12:29 AM	You make it sound like it'd be a choice, let alone a preferable one. If you're choosing reincarnate you're generally pretty hard up. Either financially or the state of the body. And really, given the stats it could really, really hurt your class. I can't see a rash of suicides as people repeatedly try to reincarnate as a kobold and get that net -4 to stats. Hehe, the half-orc tank that dumped all his mental stats coming back as a kobold, going from: Race:Half-Orc STR-20 DEX-14 CON-14 INT-6 WIS-8 CHA-6 to: Race:Kobold STR-14 DEX-16 CON-12 INT-6 WIS-8 CHA-6
The_Jester 08-07-07, 09:57 AM	Yeah, that's my point. You're hurting and desperate and decide to roll on reincarnate. You're taking the chance of losing your character forever. And you get kobold. You have the card, it's a player race now. But ohhhh, it's for new PCs only. Sorry, your character is gone forever.
Wraith235 08-08-07, 08:02 AM	I can understandand it ....but there is a lack of specifics if you start as a Grey elf and Roll Elf on that table ... no Garuntee that you'll end up a grey again ..... now if you rolled Kobold and had a % chance to become a mist Kingdom Kobold that would be ok and IMHO ... I even think it would be acceptable that if anyone Rolled Kobold ... the DM asks the player ...."do you have the Kobold Reward card" and if the answer is yes roll on the chart(course that could be gotten around by ebay and whatnot)
TetsujinOni 08-08-07, 12:10 PM	As I recall somewhere on the forums, I thnk by Britt but atleast someone of power, has stated that the card cannot be used via a reincarnate, only at the actual creation of the character. Do people really want to waste the card slot to carry Sojourner from the Mist Kingdom in their stack, so that they could burn the card after the reincarnate roll to keep their PC? That's the only way I can see this working in the campaign... Which means it won't ever be an issue, now will it? There's at least 5 cards any conceivable adventurer would want before Sojourner if they weren't already a MK Kobold...
Shieldhart91 08-08-07, 01:29 PM	Sojourner of the Mist Kingdom is a CREATION card, not a re-creation card. Case in point, reincarnation makes this card not really useable. While I know it's a crappy ruling, and it seems that the Circle is trying to give us the shaft in terms of Reincarnate AGAIN, there's the point that you are a different kobold now- not a Sojourner. And as I remember, Britt did say that you cannot reincarnate into a Kobold and play- you're removed from the game. Personally, I do think that the Reincarnation should be able to reincarnate you into a playable kobold. People won't notice if you're a "good" or "bad" kobold- they're gonna wanna kill you anyways. You're at a disadvantage, and the only reason for even wanting to be reincarnated as a kobold is for role-playing favor. Aside from that, not everyone who gets reincarnated WOULD have Sojourner from the Mist Kingdom, so that's probably another factor in the decision that you cannot reincarnate as a playable kobold.
uncawes 08-13-07, 07:22 AM	Strictly going by the wording of that passage I'd say no- you can't become a kobold by reincarnate, even if you have the card in your stack at the time. However... the spirit of the rules is equally important. I'd allow it at a table I was running, until it was specifically addressed by the circle. Ah, but YOUR Circle dude is Colleen, not Britt. And when she finds out you're worshipping IUZ...
Hariman 08-14-07, 12:53 AM	Yeah, that's my point. You're hurting and desperate and decide to roll on reincarnate. You're taking the chance of losing your character forever. And you get kobold. You have the card, it's a player race now. But ohhhh, it's for new PCs only. Sorry, your character is gone forever. Unless you are already a Kobold Via the Kobold Card. That is the only exception. Yeah, it sucks. Oh well, now you have to cope with still having that 16% chance of losing your character via reincarnation. Instead of 15%.
_metz_ 08-15-07, 03:38 AM	Hehe, the half-orc tank that dumped all his mental stats coming back as a kobold, going from: Race:Half-Orc STR-20 DEX-14 CON-14 INT-6 WIS-8 CHA-6 to: Race:Kobold STR-14 DEX-16 CON-12 INT-6 WIS-8 CHA-6 OR you are the Grey Elf Reincarnated as a Dwarf. (I have seen this.) Stats: Str: 6 Dex: 16 Con: 12 Int: 20 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 Reincarnated as Dwarf: Str: 8 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 20 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 Check the point buys. I know I'd rather the second one as my wizard, even if I was slinging rays... Reincarnate can be really stupid, and I think it gives out more problems than it solves.
Timlagor 08-15-07, 06:43 AM	From 36vbp to 40vbp.. hmm that's only 8vbp less than the Dakon.