Large War Horse ?'s [Archive] - Wizards Community

Large War Horse ?'s [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ThaCrow187
07-11-05, 02:57 PM Ok I recently bought my character a Lrg. War Horse, & My D-M has "I think" gone out of his way to not let me use it in adventures, He keeps saying that creature in this forest eat horse's, Or you cant use him to do that(spot checks & guarding & Listening for stuff), Is he just not sure of the rule and doesnt want to make mistake's or is it really that tricky to use Horse's in adventure's?

Also We My whole party recieved WarDog's as companion's & he wont let us use them in combat to aid in a front-back attack, Or when jumped by wolves he wont let us have the Dog's fight the wolves as well, What are the rules on this stuff, I've read all threw my DMG Player Handbook & Monster Manual & I dont see why we cant Use all this stuff whenever we want, Can some1 please clarify this...

Thanks
&
Peace
kjenks
07-12-05, 03:09 PM Ok I recently bought my character a Lrg. War Horse, & My D-M has "I think" gone out of his way to not let me use it in adventures,

There are many LG adventures that are not suitable for horses. This might not be the DM making up reasons; it might be written into the scenario. Or it might be the DM giving you a subtle hint that there's an Empowered Fireball somewhere in this scenario that is pretty sure to toast your horse, so you're better off leaving it at home this game.

He keeps saying that creature in this forest eat horse's, Or you cant use him to do that (spot checks & guarding & Listening for stuff),

There are creatures who eat horses.

Getting your horse to guard you is described under the Handle Animal skill. There is real way to convince a horse to be a camp guard.

Is he just not sure of the rule and doesnt want to make mistake's or is it really that tricky to use Horse's in adventure's?

Many people are not all that familiar with the rules governing the use of animals in LG, but it really can be that tricky to use horses in adventures.

Also We My whole party recieved WarDog's as companion's & he wont let us use them in combat to aid in a front-back attack, Or when jumped by wolves he wont let us have the Dog's fight the wolves as well,

Getting your dogs to attack is described under the Handle Animal skill. A DM should allow you to use them, but bringing animals along on the adventure may increase the APL at which you play the scenario.

What are the rules on this stuff, I've read all threw my DMG Player Handbook & Monster Manual & I dont see why we cant Use all this stuff whenever we want, Can some1 please clarify this...

It sounds like you need to talk to your DM (in a non-accusatory way) about how animals can be used in an adventure, which rules (both Core rules and LG campaign rules) apply to their use, and how they might fit in with his DMing style. Sometimes, a DM might not want to deal with a bunch of animals during an adventure because they can significantly increase the amount of time required for combat, but they don't always alter the results of the battle. And sometimes they just don't fit with the adventure. But a good DM can work them into the game some of the time.
Timlagor
07-14-05, 07:37 AM ok loads of stuff.

Animals shoud lbe given listen and spot checks. This won't save your from s surprise round though as any reaction they make will happen int the surprise round and then you get to at in the next round anyway. It may save you from being crept up upon though.

You should be able to tell your animals to guard you and/or a spot (with a suitable handle animal check but you can take 20 out of combat).

Dogs have animal intelligence. They won't flank by instinct. MOst of thm have the attack trick and will attack on command but they will just attack the nearest point. If you want flanking from them then you have to do the manoeuvering but then it should work.

If you're choosing tricks then I would allow you to choose "Flank" as a trick.

The dogs should be willing to fight the wolves. There are creatures they won't fight willlingly (without a special trick or "pushing'') but those are unnatural ones (outisders etc) -I'm not sure of the specifics on that one, you'd have to look it up (PHB under Handle Animal perhaps).

In short there are plenty of things you can' do with animals but there are some that you can. It sounds like yout DM is being a little more restricitve than they shoudl but it's hard to tell from your brief post.

You can also use animals with Scent to help you track.

Hope that helps.
The_Elder
07-14-05, 09:20 AM But flanking is a pack tacktic(sp), and therefor a natural instinct to a dog ( and thankfully for my Druid a wolf to )

The:dice:Elder
Timlagor
07-14-05, 10:10 AM But flanking is a pack tacktic(sp), and therefor a natural instinct to a dog ( and thankfully for my Druid a wolf to )

The:dice:Elder

piffle ;)
Southernskies
07-15-05, 04:06 AM But flanking is a pack tacktic(sp), and therefor a natural instinct to a dog ( and thankfully for my Druid a wolf to )

The:dice:Elder

Maybe in reality, but not under the game rules.

If you want an animal to flank, you need to "push" it with a DC25 Handle Animal check. This takes a Move-Eq action for a druid or ranger and a Standard action for everyone else.

There is no "flank" trick available for use in LG that I am aware of. Only those tricks listed in the PH and allowed secondary sources (Complete books etc) can be used.
MaxDog
07-15-05, 02:11 PM Maybe in reality, but not under the game rules.

If you want an animal to flank, you need to "push" it with a DC25 Handle Animal check. This takes a Move-Eq action for a druid or ranger and a Standard action for everyone else.

There is no "flank" trick available for use in LG that I am aware of. Only those tricks listed in the PH and allowed secondary sources (Complete books etc) can be used.

I'm not so sure about the tricks in the Complete Books -- LGCS 4.2 p. 33: "The list of animal companion tricks is on page 74 of the Player's Handbook v.3.5 under Handle Animal. Special tricks (ones not listed in the PHB) are only allowed by way of campaign or regional documentation."

Does anyone know if this was errated?

larry h
Namarus
07-16-05, 10:44 AM Dogs have animal intelligence. They won't flank by instinct. MOst of thm have the attack trick and will attack on command but they will just attack the nearest point. If you want flanking from them then you have to do the manoeuvering but then it should work.

If you're choosing tricks then I would allow you to choose "Flank" as a trick.

You can't get a flank trick without campaign documentation. I think it's strange that you say that animals won't flank, when pretty much all animals do that in the wild naturally when hunting for prey.

The dogs should be willing to fight the wolves. There are creatures they won't fight willlingly (without a special trick or "pushing'') but those are unnatural ones (outisders etc) -I'm not sure of the specifics on that one, you'd have to look it up (PHB under Handle Animal perhaps).

If an animal is taught the Attack trick twice, it will engage even creatures it would normally not attack. Creatures an animal will not normally attack include undead, oozes, oddball things like that. They would certainly attack other animals even of the same type as them. They do this naturally, and your GM is gimping you by not allowing this. Especially since in Living Campaigns they are supposed to follow RAW, and not making up rubbish that enters their head.

Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.

“Push” an Animal

To push an animal means to get it to perform a task or trick that it doesn’t know but is physically capable of performing. This category also covers making an animal perform a forced march or forcing it to hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action.

You can also use animals with Scent to help you track.

This is a life saving ability literally. I can't count the number of times my bacon has been saved from invisible or hiding creatures.
solbergb
07-18-05, 02:19 AM Actually...wolves flank instinctively, dogs do not.

They really only are superficially similar. For example, wolves are carnivores pack hunters, dogs are omniverous pack scavangers. Not to mention that each breed has a bunch of weird behaviors hardwired in to make them good at pulling a sled, or guarding sheep or whatever.
Timlagor
07-18-05, 10:18 AM Actually...wolves flank instinctively, dogs do not.

They really only are superficially similar. For example, wolves are carnivores pack hunters, dogs are omniverous pack scavangers. Not to mention that each breed has a bunch of weird behaviors hardwired in to make them good at pulling a sled, or guarding sheep or whatever.

Wild Dogs are pack hunters. Tame dogs are whatever they're trained to be.
Casebier
07-18-05, 11:23 AM Tricks you can teach and tricks you can use are different. According to the LGCS 4-2, you can teach an animal any trick in the PHB. Also according to the LGCS 4-2, you can use any skill rules variants that your current DM allows, which means you have access to the tricks in the complete books, but you can't teach them, since they aren't in the PHB.

Another Oddball thing that the LGCS 4-2 allows is an animal taking a feat like Communicator. (Can you image an animal that is able to use Comprehend Languages as a spell-like ability?)

Go Figure...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ThaCrow187 07-11-05, 02:57 PM	Ok I recently bought my character a Lrg. War Horse, & My D-M has "I think" gone out of his way to not let me use it in adventures, He keeps saying that creature in this forest eat horse's, Or you cant use him to do that(spot checks & guarding & Listening for stuff), Is he just not sure of the rule and doesnt want to make mistake's or is it really that tricky to use Horse's in adventure's? Also We My whole party recieved WarDog's as companion's & he wont let us use them in combat to aid in a front-back attack, Or when jumped by wolves he wont let us have the Dog's fight the wolves as well, What are the rules on this stuff, I've read all threw my DMG Player Handbook & Monster Manual & I dont see why we cant Use all this stuff whenever we want, Can some1 please clarify this... Thanks & Peace
kjenks 07-12-05, 03:09 PM	Ok I recently bought my character a Lrg. War Horse, & My D-M has "I think" gone out of his way to not let me use it in adventures, There are many LG adventures that are not suitable for horses. This might not be the DM making up reasons; it might be written into the scenario. Or it might be the DM giving you a subtle hint that there's an Empowered Fireball somewhere in this scenario that is pretty sure to toast your horse, so you're better off leaving it at home this game. He keeps saying that creature in this forest eat horse's, Or you cant use him to do that (spot checks & guarding & Listening for stuff), There are creatures who eat horses. Getting your horse to guard you is described under the Handle Animal skill. There is real way to convince a horse to be a camp guard. Is he just not sure of the rule and doesnt want to make mistake's or is it really that tricky to use Horse's in adventure's? Many people are not all that familiar with the rules governing the use of animals in LG, but it really can be that tricky to use horses in adventures. Also We My whole party recieved WarDog's as companion's & he wont let us use them in combat to aid in a front-back attack, Or when jumped by wolves he wont let us have the Dog's fight the wolves as well, Getting your dogs to attack is described under the Handle Animal skill. A DM should allow you to use them, but bringing animals along on the adventure may increase the APL at which you play the scenario. What are the rules on this stuff, I've read all threw my DMG Player Handbook & Monster Manual & I dont see why we cant Use all this stuff whenever we want, Can some1 please clarify this... It sounds like you need to talk to your DM (in a non-accusatory way) about how animals can be used in an adventure, which rules (both Core rules and LG campaign rules) apply to their use, and how they might fit in with his DMing style. Sometimes, a DM might not want to deal with a bunch of animals during an adventure because they can significantly increase the amount of time required for combat, but they don't always alter the results of the battle. And sometimes they just don't fit with the adventure. But a good DM can work them into the game some of the time.
Timlagor 07-14-05, 07:37 AM	ok loads of stuff. Animals shoud lbe given listen and spot checks. This won't save your from s surprise round though as any reaction they make will happen int the surprise round and then you get to at in the next round anyway. It may save you from being crept up upon though. You should be able to tell your animals to guard you and/or a spot (with a suitable handle animal check but you can take 20 out of combat). Dogs have animal intelligence. They won't flank by instinct. MOst of thm have the attack trick and will attack on command but they will just attack the nearest point. If you want flanking from them then you have to do the manoeuvering but then it should work. If you're choosing tricks then I would allow you to choose "Flank" as a trick. The dogs should be willing to fight the wolves. There are creatures they won't fight willlingly (without a special trick or "pushing'') but those are unnatural ones (outisders etc) -I'm not sure of the specifics on that one, you'd have to look it up (PHB under Handle Animal perhaps). In short there are plenty of things you can' do with animals but there are some that you can. It sounds like yout DM is being a little more restricitve than they shoudl but it's hard to tell from your brief post. You can also use animals with Scent to help you track. Hope that helps.
The_Elder 07-14-05, 09:20 AM	But flanking is a pack tacktic(sp), and therefor a natural instinct to a dog ( and thankfully for my Druid a wolf to ) The:dice:Elder
Timlagor 07-14-05, 10:10 AM	But flanking is a pack tacktic(sp), and therefor a natural instinct to a dog ( and thankfully for my Druid a wolf to ) The:dice:Elder piffle ;)
Southernskies 07-15-05, 04:06 AM	But flanking is a pack tacktic(sp), and therefor a natural instinct to a dog ( and thankfully for my Druid a wolf to ) The:dice:Elder Maybe in reality, but not under the game rules. If you want an animal to flank, you need to "push" it with a DC25 Handle Animal check. This takes a Move-Eq action for a druid or ranger and a Standard action for everyone else. There is no "flank" trick available for use in LG that I am aware of. Only those tricks listed in the PH and allowed secondary sources (Complete books etc) can be used.
MaxDog 07-15-05, 02:11 PM	Maybe in reality, but not under the game rules. If you want an animal to flank, you need to "push" it with a DC25 Handle Animal check. This takes a Move-Eq action for a druid or ranger and a Standard action for everyone else. There is no "flank" trick available for use in LG that I am aware of. Only those tricks listed in the PH and allowed secondary sources (Complete books etc) can be used. I'm not so sure about the tricks in the Complete Books -- LGCS 4.2 p. 33: "The list of animal companion tricks is on page 74 of the Player's Handbook v.3.5 under Handle Animal. Special tricks (ones not listed in the PHB) are only allowed by way of campaign or regional documentation." Does anyone know if this was errated? larry h
Namarus 07-16-05, 10:44 AM	Dogs have animal intelligence. They won't flank by instinct. MOst of thm have the attack trick and will attack on command but they will just attack the nearest point. If you want flanking from them then you have to do the manoeuvering but then it should work. If you're choosing tricks then I would allow you to choose "Flank" as a trick. You can't get a flank trick without campaign documentation. I think it's strange that you say that animals won't flank, when pretty much all animals do that in the wild naturally when hunting for prey. The dogs should be willing to fight the wolves. There are creatures they won't fight willlingly (without a special trick or "pushing'') but those are unnatural ones (outisders etc) -I'm not sure of the specifics on that one, you'd have to look it up (PHB under Handle Animal perhaps). If an animal is taught the Attack trick twice, it will engage even creatures it would normally not attack. Creatures an animal will not normally attack include undead, oozes, oddball things like that. They would certainly attack other animals even of the same type as them. They do this naturally, and your GM is gimping you by not allowing this. Especially since in Living Campaigns they are supposed to follow RAW, and not making up rubbish that enters their head. Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks. “Push” an Animal To push an animal means to get it to perform a task or trick that it doesn’t know but is physically capable of performing. This category also covers making an animal perform a forced march or forcing it to hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action. You can also use animals with Scent to help you track. This is a life saving ability literally. I can't count the number of times my bacon has been saved from invisible or hiding creatures.
solbergb 07-18-05, 02:19 AM	Actually...wolves flank instinctively, dogs do not. They really only are superficially similar. For example, wolves are carnivores pack hunters, dogs are omniverous pack scavangers. Not to mention that each breed has a bunch of weird behaviors hardwired in to make them good at pulling a sled, or guarding sheep or whatever.
Timlagor 07-18-05, 10:18 AM	Actually...wolves flank instinctively, dogs do not. They really only are superficially similar. For example, wolves are carnivores pack hunters, dogs are omniverous pack scavangers. Not to mention that each breed has a bunch of weird behaviors hardwired in to make them good at pulling a sled, or guarding sheep or whatever. Wild Dogs are pack hunters. Tame dogs are whatever they're trained to be.
Casebier 07-18-05, 11:23 AM	Tricks you can teach and tricks you can use are different. According to the LGCS 4-2, you can teach an animal any trick in the PHB. Also according to the LGCS 4-2, you can use any skill rules variants that your current DM allows, which means you have access to the tricks in the complete books, but you can't teach them, since they aren't in the PHB. Another Oddball thing that the LGCS 4-2 allows is an animal taking a feat like Communicator. (Can you image an animal that is able to use Comprehend Languages as a spell-like ability?) Go Figure...