Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grantor 07-12-07, 04:53 PM	I was looking at a depiction of the regions on a real world map (actually Google Earth), and I realized that Ohio is the center of the universe, when it comes to regions in LG. There is no point in Ohio that is further than 265 miles from seven regions, including Ohio. That's spans three meta-regions. And southern Ohio is within a 5 hour drive of eight regions. And no point in Ohio is more than 100 miles from at least one region (Kilbourne, OH to either Virginia or Indiana: about 100 miles). Origins in in Ohio, GenCon is in an adjacent state. Meanwhile, Wizards of the Coast is in a suburb of Seattle and Hasbro is in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. It sure must be nice to be an LG player in Ohio. You would NEVER run out of mods to play. Does anyone know if the regions were originally selected by player population or other factors? Apparently the are still adjusted based on population (e.g. Ratik), but the regions in the US have been static since LG started, as far as I can tell. Any "I live at the center of the universe" anecdotes?
Sieylianna 07-12-07, 05:54 PM	Does anyone know if the regions were originally selected by player population or other factors? Apparently the are still adjusted based on population (e.g. Ratik), but the regions in the US have been static since LG started, as far as I can tell. The original regions were allocated on the basis of Living City play numbers. That's why Ohio, Wisconsin and Michigan have their own regions. Ed
King Kashue 07-12-07, 10:56 PM	Yep, only down side to living in Ohio is that if you live there, you're living in Ohio...:D
Reylance 07-13-07, 02:33 PM	The original regions were allocated on the basis of Living City play numbers. That's why Ohio, Wisconsin and Michigan have their own regions. Ed And why Georgia originally had its own region, before they realized Dragon*Con skewed the numbers to an incredible extent. Indiana's also not bad for access to regions. However, being close to the Yeomanry doesn't help when there's pretty much nothing going on in Kentucky.
control freak 07-16-07, 01:26 AM	Yep, only down side to living in Ohio is that if you live there, you're living in Ohio... I RESENT THAT REMARK (relizes that he is actualy in ohio and remembers that) never mind i withdraw my comment :D :P but no seriously i live within 40 min of 3 regions and all have the same metaregion and its nice (im 2 hours from gen con and origens but didnt get to go this year) in general for LG im in a prime location :D each of those stores has like 30+ players and the best part, every one of those stores started this year we are all within a few levels of each other for primary characters save 1 small group of 5-6 people that played like 5-6 mods last year and got to 2 or 3
amnuxoll 07-16-07, 02:28 PM	Given that I created the region map you were looking at, I too have looked thoughtfully at Ohio's geographical advantage. However, I've taken it a step further and considered where city would be the ideal city to live in. Because it's not just being near a region that's important, you really want to be near a city where there are lots of LG players and/or game days. Taking that into consideration, I've come to the conclusion that Chicago might have a slight edge on any city in Ohio. Not only does it put you within easy driving distance of Milwaukee (Highfolk) but it's also not far from the Twin Cities (Shield Lands), eastern Iowa (Dyvers), Kalamazoo (Furyondy) and Toledo (Veluna). Each of these locations hosts at least one significant convention a year. Your best bet in Ohio is probably to live in Youngstown which gives you easy access to Pittsburg (Keoland) and reasonable access to Baltimore (Geoff), Detroit (Furyondy), Ft. Wayne (Verbobonc) and Toronto (Ket). Youngstowners also can get three metaregions instead of two as Chicago does. One could argue that you can also get to Greensboro (Gran March) but in my mind that's just a little too far to count. So, in short, Youngstown vs. Chicago is a tough race. I give the edge to Chicago because the distances seem to be a little less onerous *and* Chicago is a much more hip city to live in. Also if you were an uber-gamer who travels even further afield, the airfare out of Chicago is going to be cheaper. My twelve cents... :AMN:
Grantor 07-16-07, 05:55 PM	Given that I created the region map you were looking at, I too have looked thoughtfully at Ohio's geographical advantage. :AMN: Thanks for the comments. I can see what you mean about hot spots of LG activity. Especially if you consider flying to regions further afield. (Side note: Actually, I created the Google Earth map of the LG regions I was looking at. I work with the program everyday at work and put it together in my free time. Now if I could just get 1000 hours of free time to create a 3D map server to make Google Greyhawk...) ;)
Arvagor 07-16-07, 06:51 PM	So, in short, Youngstown vs. Chicago is a tough race. I give the edge to Chicago because the distances seem to be a little less onerous *and* Chicago is a much more hip city to live in. Not to mention, Youngstown is dangerously close to Cleveland ("the land where the rivers burn true") ;)
bhale187 07-17-07, 10:07 AM	The only problem with living in Chicago is, well.......you are living in Chicago.
kenobi65 07-17-07, 12:06 PM	The only problem with living in Chicago is, well.......you are living in Chicago. Tell me about it. :) - living in exile in Flatland since 1989, because, well, this is where the jobs are.
King Kashue 07-17-07, 12:26 PM	The only problem with living in Chicago is, well.......you are living in Chicago. Yeah, the only problem with living in Manhattan is you're living in Manhattan...The only problem with living in London is you're living in London...The only problem with living in Vienna is you're living in Vienna... Hrm...It doesn't work so well when you're dealing with a world capital instead of a largely rural state where losing to the University of Florida is considered the pinnacle of entertainment...;)
smerwin29 07-17-07, 12:51 PM	Oh boy. Somebody better call the moderator. That was about as low as you can get.
kenobi65 07-17-07, 02:08 PM	Oh boy. Somebody better call the moderator. That was about as low as you can get. Says the guy who's "living in Buffalo" (a term that many consider to be an oxymoron ;) ).
smerwin29 07-17-07, 03:26 PM	Actually, I was talking about the reference to Florida beating Ohio State in every sport except team handball recently. And thankfully I don't actually live in Buffalo. It's just the nearest place that actually appears on a map . . .
Grantor 07-17-07, 03:56 PM	So, I continued to be curious, so I did some data crunching and came up with two ad-hoc measurements of RPGA activity: Here are all of the reported locations for Year 6 Core adventures 1-10: US 6027 CA 606 TX 353 NY 333 PA 327 IL 294 MI 281 FL 250 OH 240 WI 228 NC 225 WA 221 IN 191 MO 175 VA 160 NJ 146 GA 144 OR 115 AL 108 NV 98 MA 94 AZ 91 MN 89 IA 88 TN 88 UT 83 LA 79 MD 72 NE 72 KS 69 CT 66 CO 58 AR 41 NH 40 MS 38 SD 38 ND 35 NM 26 KY 23 WV 21 AK 18 SC 17 VT 16 RI 6 ME 6 DC 2 ID 2 DE 1 Canada 549 ON 172 AB 126 BC 105 QC 93 NB 27 MB 25 PE 1 NS 0 Australia 416 QLD 161 VIC 82 NSW 87 ACT 34 WA 17 TAS 13 SA 15 Germany 105 Brazil 75 UK 62 France 59 Argentina 53 Colombia 49 New Zealand 43 Netherlands 36 Belgium 32 Mexico 29 Finland 27 Singapore 23 Greece 16 Philippines 14 Switzerland 13 Japan 12 Austria 11 Thailand 9 Ireland 7 Bolivia 6 Spain 6 Turkey 5 Sweden 3 Peru 2 Poland 2 Costa Rica 1 Fiji 1 Iraq 1 Italy 1 Norway 1 South Africa 1 Trinidad 1 Venezuela 1
Grantor 07-17-07, 03:59 PM	And here is another metric (COR6-01 + COR7-01 + COR7-08 + Red Hand of Doom + Meta-Regionals7-01): US 1432 CA 158 NY 79 PA 77 TX 77 IL 72 FL 65 OH 62 MI 60 WI 58 WA 51 NC 49 IN 48 MO 45 GA 41 VA 37 NJ 36 AZ 26 UT 25 NV 24 MA 23 MN 23 IA 22 MD 22 OR 22 NE 21 AL 20 LA 18 CO 16 KS 15 TN 15 CT 14 NH 8 SC 8 MS 7 ND 7 WV 7 AR 6 DE 6 AK 5 NM 5 SD 5 KY 4 RI 3 VT 3 DC 2 ME 2 ID 1 Canada 132 AB 35 BC 23 MB 8 NB 9 NS 2 ON 29 QC 26 Australia 118 ACT 13 NSW 18 QLD 41 SA 3 TAS 4 VIC 23 WA 7 Germany 40 Brazil 29 Argentina 19 Colombia 16 France 13 Belgium 11 Netherlands 8 UK 7 New Zealand 6 Philippines 5 Mexico 4 Singapore 4 Austria 3 Finland 3 Ireland 3 Japan 3 SE 3 Spain 2 Bolivia 1 Belarus 1 Fiji 1 Italy 1 Malaysia 1 PE 1 South Korea 1 Switzerland 1 Thailand 1 Turkey 1 Ukraine 1
Grantor 07-17-07, 04:01 PM	Splitting California in halves (it's two regions) puts Ohio at 8th place in the list of US states.
KShaver 07-17-07, 04:08 PM	Parts of Ohio may be nice to get to multiple regions, but living in Columbus isn't quite right next to anything except more Ohio. Sure its easy to make Origins, but most of the borders are a bit further away than I'd like to drive for a one day RGPA trip.
Grantor 07-17-07, 07:58 PM	And, just to finish the list of reported Core 6 1-10 adventures: By region: Australia and the Pacific Perrenland 260 Ratik 250 Canada Zeif 231 Ket 225 Tusmet 93 International Geoff (worldwide) 233 Ahlissa (Adri) 116 Onnwal 69 Sunndi 68 Ekbir 59 Ahlissa (Naerie) 31 Bone March 16 Dullstrand 13 Sea Barons 1 United States Keoland 806 Verbobonc 485 City of Dyvers 404 Pale 401 Nyrond 394 Gran March 386 Yeomanry 377 Duchy of Urnst 356 Bandit Kingdoms 353 Furyondy 281 Geoff (USA) 256 Ulek 250 Veluna 240 Bissel 228 Highfolk 228 County of Urnst 167 Shield Lands 162 Now Ohio (Veluna) is not looking that exciting. New York (Keoland) is the place to be if you want to catch every single core mod and be near other regions. But, aside from Keoland, the population of players by region looks pretty even! Only the middle of the country (which has much lower population density) has a count of under 220 reported adventures.
Sieylianna 07-17-07, 09:05 PM	Now Ohio (Veluna) is not looking that exciting. New York (Keoland) is the place to be if you want to catch every single core mod and be near other regions. But, aside from Keoland, the population of players by region looks pretty even! Only the middle of the country (which has much lower population density) has a count of under 220 reported adventures. I think this is pretty much a meaningless statistic. You are required (with minor exceptions) to play regional modules in region. There are no such restrictions on core modules. (And why does this table differ so greatly from the purportedly same table you posted yesterday?) A fair number of core modules premier at Origins and or Gen Con, both of which are convenient to Ohio. Finally, Ohio was an extended premier site for Winter Fantasy 2006, so those core modules could be played at a single Ohio covention. So three cons could have covered the bulk of core play. Ed
King Kashue 07-18-07, 07:58 AM	(And why does this table differ so greatly from the purportedly same table you posted yesterday?) Because that one was by state and this one is by region. Ohio = Veluna. California = Split between Pale and Nyrond Keoland = New York, New Jersey, Pennyslvania If we're discussing real world geographical optimization though, the by-region list is pretty irrelevant. That Keoland has more activity than Veluna tells us almost nothing, since Veluna is just one state and Keoland consists of three states (two of which are larger than Ohio) and has a combined population 3.5 times that of Veluna. Per Capita, Veluna still plays more Living Greyhawk than Keoland.
pedr 07-18-07, 09:15 AM	Besides, the accessible data is almost exactly meaningless. The scenario play history doesn't tell you whether 1, 3, 17 or no tables of a particular scenario were played, merely that the scenario was ordered. Sometimes things are ordered in advance so GMs can read them. Sometimes every available scenario is ordered for a convention so that ad hoc games can be arranged. Sometimes a scenario is ordered and played many, many times before all the tables are reported at once. The data necessary to be at all accurate or meaningful is only available to RPGA HQ, and hasn't been shared.
Grantor 07-18-07, 12:57 PM	A fair number of core modules premier at Origins and or Gen Con, both of which are convenient to Ohio. Finally, Ohio was an extended premier site for Winter Fantasy 2006, so those core modules could be played at a single Ohio covention. So three cons could have covered the bulk of core play. Each number in the above listings is a single day of play, with any number of tables. So GenCon and Origins actually only account for three or four "pips" in those tallies. Not for a full 48 (or whatever) tables.
Grantor 07-18-07, 01:02 PM	Per Capita, Veluna still plays more Living Greyhawk than Keoland. I'm still working on the Core per capita listings, but the short results: (In Gamedays per 10,000 people) Keoland .201 NJ .167 NY .172 PA .263 Veluna (OH) .209
Grantor 07-18-07, 01:19 PM	Besides, the accessible data is almost exactly meaningless. Which is why I prefaced it by declaring them ad-hoc metrics. These are very rough measurements. The scenario play history doesn't tell you whether 1, 3, 17 or no tables of a particular scenario were played, merely that the scenario was ordered. Yes, these numbers are the number of gamedays, home games and individual days of each convention. They do not represent the number of tables played. On another of your points, though, the number of mods ordered that are not played should be proportional to the number of games ordered in a single region. I don't expect one region to be full of people that order games then never play, and other regions are perfect at following the rules or recruiting players. But, I partially agree. These numbers are not exact. That doesn't mean that they are meaningless. Certainly they should not be used for any decision making, however. Still, I did find it interesting that the regions in North America were all close to the 250 to 450 range for Core-mod gamedays. Exceptions were either in low population density states, like Montana, or in Keoland (where PA has a really high gameday per capita rating and three high-pop states are combined into one region).
King Kashue 07-18-07, 01:36 PM	I'm still working on the Core per capita listings, but the short results: (In Gamedays per 10,000 people) Keoland .201 NJ .167 NY .172 PA .263 Veluna (OH) .209 Um, yeah, .209 > .201...that's what I said ;)
_metz_ 07-18-07, 10:35 PM	Australia does have a very strong gaming community by these stats, we only have 20 million here...
TetsujinOni 07-20-07, 03:07 PM	Still, I did find it interesting that the regions in North America were all close to the 250 to 450 range for Core-mod gamedays. Exceptions were either in low population density states, like Montana, or in Keoland (where PA has a really high gameday per capita rating and three high-pop states are combined into one region). Ahh, Keoland. Draw a circle around NYC and Pitt, and see what the numbers look like then.... Looks more like the midwest concentrations, I bet. Though Albany does try to do its share....
Grantor 07-20-07, 03:36 PM	Ahh, Keoland. Draw a circle around NYC and Pitt, and see what the numbers look like then.... Looks more like the midwest concentrations, I bet. Though Albany does try to do its share.... Actually, if you plot Gamedays on a map, I-95 looks like a continous string of Chrismas lights stretching from Berlin, CT to Philly, then with occasional gaps as it continues to Arlington, VA . That's the best place to live if you want a Gameday every weekend. And, yes, NYC (including Brooklyn and the Bronx) wins with 17 different game days for Core mods 1-10.
Frumpkis 07-21-07, 04:30 PM	What is surprising to me is the fact that many countries in South America and Southeast Asia (many of which are regionless, or were regionless prior to Ratik) seem to have much more LG/RPGA activity than some of the European countries that have their own regions.
Chernobyl1 07-23-07, 10:01 PM	One significant convention a year? I dunno, here in my area (and I'm not talking all of the Pale, which includes Nevada by the way) we have a few big conventions (ie RPGA + other games): Conquest Sacramento, KublaCon, Conquest San Francisco; a couple big RPGA-only cons: Winter Weekend in the Pale, Theocracy by the Bay; a nice medium sized con: Palish Convictions; and a couple nice smaller events: Prelate Con, and GeorgeCon! All that and I have to drive a minimum of about 3 hours to get out of my region. (I believe Oregon is the closest to me...) So as far as active players go, I think we're pretty up there...
Grantor 07-24-07, 06:20 PM	What is surprising to me is the fact that many countries in South America and Southeast Asia (many of which are regionless, or were regionless prior to Ratik) seem to have much more LG/RPGA activity than some of the European countries that have their own regions. Yes, I noticed that too. There is a cluster in Bogata, Colombia that is evenly spread over the year. Plus they appear to have had a con in February. That and another group in Pasto that plays every other month. Colombia's "gameday per capita" worked out to be about even with Naerie-Adri (Germany and Austria). And at 75 reportings of Core mods 1-10 in Brazil, it is the 5th most common country to report an LG mod. Although with their large population, it's not very high in the per capita measurement. Even Argentina managed to beat the Netherlands, Belgium and even New Zealand. It's too bad that there isn't a Spanish/Portuguese Meta-region. Spain, Central American and South America would probably appreciate it and could make content in their own langauge. (Thus spreading D&D and increasing WotC sales, one would hope.)