Post/Author/DateTime	Post
haferka 12-13-05, 04:05 PM	We want to see the new LGCS.... Post it so we can point out your mistakes... before you decide that its done. Last time I read, it was due to be released to these boards at the begining of Dec. And aproved by the first of the year.... Hurry up... finished or not, complete or not.. post something so we can point out your mistakes.. and suggest fixes...
King Kashue 12-13-05, 04:41 PM	Are you joking, or did you grow up under powerlines? :confused:
haferka 12-13-05, 04:56 PM	From Dispel Confusion 1.4 here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20051025a) Q: I’ve heard that the campaign membership as a whole gets to review the Living Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook and make suggestions during a draft review period, before the document goes live. How does that work? A: We are changing how we implement the draft review for the Living Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook, effective with the new update, due out late this year or early 2006. In the past, we had employed a draft discussion public email list, which was heavily moderated to keep discussion focused. Starting with the next update, we will be using the Wizards Community Boards as our open discussion tool. Keep an eye out later this year for more information. In the meantime, if you’re not a member, sign up on the boards by going to www.wizards.com/community. You’ll want to sign up well before discussion begins, since approval may not be instantaneous.
King Kashue 12-13-05, 07:39 PM	Uh huh...And how does that announcement relate to you coming and demanding a copy of the LGCS "finished or not" so that you can "point out their mistakes"? The fact that there will be a discussion does not give you leave to give orders to the Circle and act like a teahat...
Kheldren 12-14-05, 04:12 AM	Well they have renamed the link to it - it is now the Living Greyhawk Campaign Standards on the download page...
waerlinga 12-14-05, 05:01 AM	Admittedly, Haferka is approaching the subject like an half-orc tribal barbarian in a china shop. That aside, I believe that the question to be asked is will the masses in general have a decent time period to review the new LGCS and make suggestions before the changes are implemented? In the past, many players I know have felt the LGCS draft was mainly released merely to acclimate players to upcoming changes, allowing little time for in-depth discussion and even less time for any _serious_ consideration of the many player suggestions that crop up during this period. I, myself, appreciate the effort that the Circle goes through with each revision of the LGCS. However, it is hard to believe that player suggestions can be taken seriously when the LGCS is due to be released within days of the first actual glimpse of the rough draft by players. Such a schedule does not seem to allow enough time for feedback, consideration, and actual revision (if warranted) of even a fraction of the suggestions that players have made during the last reviews. Even good ideas sometimes seem to be shelved until the FOLLOWING revision just so the release can go through as planned. Circle: please extend us the courtesy of a longer grace period to get our views and thoughts to you, as this tends to be the one time our voices can be heard, short of travelling to conventions to hunt down individual Circle members. (Which, even if a player can afford to do, tends to brand him/her more as a nutcase stalker than someone with the serious desire to voice a viewpoint.) Thank you!
Azerin 12-14-05, 10:30 AM	Half-orc in a china shop... heh funny :) I agree though, anyone who's been around for a long time realizes the process; lots of work, lots of review, and lots of mistakes. Yes, it takes a lot of effort to produce any LGCS; they have to analyze all the books, decide what to include, and what not to include. that being said, they also need time to let those folks who know rules as players go through it, and find the many many flaws that are found in the first few drafts. Oh, and then they need to ignore at least half of the flaws pointed out, as in years past. (mmm signature items, i miss them.) -Azerin
haferka 12-14-05, 11:38 AM	Admittedly, Haferka is approaching the subject like an half-orc tribal barbarian in a china shop. You speak perdy... I have fixes... wrong word.. break word. smash word.. kill word.. write new words in "King Kashue" blood.
Madfox11 12-15-05, 04:42 AM	Remember that people can always point out mistakes, or confusing parts in the current version long before there is an official reviewing process. It is not as if the current version is going to get a complete rewrite. You might be surprised how much input players have through for example the Triads or just by sprouting their opinion on these boards and various other mailing lists.
TimRat 12-16-05, 03:55 PM	Its coming shortly. Have patience all. There will be a decent amount of time to go over it but it first goes through teh circle (and i have yet to see a new one as the thing is HUGE to begin with) then it goes to the triads then it will go to general perusal on these boards. Rest assured you'll see it.
haferka 12-16-05, 04:58 PM	Its coming shortly. Have patience all. There will be a decent amount of time to go over it but it first goes through teh circle (and i have yet to see a new one as the thing is HUGE to begin with) then it goes to the triads then it will go to general perusal on these boards. Rest assured you'll see it. Good Timrat <haferka pats Timrat on the head> BTW, the living_greyhawk yahoo group had a circle member post that the LGCS would contain (at least) 3 new books (Heroes of Battle, Heroes of Horror, Stormwrack).
haferka 12-19-05, 11:32 AM	BUMP! bumped by your not so friendly half orc librarian/barbarian ... I still wana see the rough draft of this document !!! It would make a nice early christmas gift :)
kenobi65 12-19-05, 12:04 PM	Count not on it as a Christmas present. Chris Tulach posted on the LG Yahoo Group: "Look for draft discussion on the LGCS to begin in January." They *might* provide the draft a few days before the discussion period starts, but I sure wouldn't think it'd be made available any earlier than that.
WotC_Tulach 12-21-05, 06:19 PM	You should see the document sometime in mid-January. The LGCS goes live in the campaign before Winter Fantasy each year. Since Winter Fantasy moved to late February, this gave us the opportunity to actually have the review period _after_ the holidays, which is a good thing (not only for you, but for me, since I update the whole thing).
haferka 12-22-05, 12:32 AM	You should see the document sometime in mid-January. The LGCS goes live in the campaign before Winter Fantasy each year. Since Winter Fantasy moved to late February, this gave us the opportunity to actually have the review period _after_ the holidays, which is a good thing (not only for you, but for me, since I update the whole thing). cool, thanks for all the good work. Do you need any any "King Kashue" blood for writing the rough draft? I don't think it good enoph for the final draft.. but the rough draft.. maybee.
Simpi 12-22-05, 02:18 AM	I'll certainly have few comments for LGCS regarding banning of some feats and certain items. S.H, the guy from Naerie
nony2klerch 12-22-05, 05:45 PM	Don't keep us in suspense...tell us now..
Simpi 12-23-05, 02:04 AM	Don't keep us in suspense...tell us now.. No. I want to save the flame war until january. S.H, the guy from Naerie
waerlinga 12-23-05, 04:43 AM	No. I want to save the flame war until january. S.H, the guy from Naerie Considering other flame wars I've witnessed, you could still start it now and watch it well into January... :D Waerlinga (Who's dreaming of chestnuts roasting over an open Flame War fire)
Simpi 12-26-05, 07:21 AM	Considering other flame wars I've witnessed, you could still start it now and watch it well into January... :D Waerlinga (Who's dreaming of chestnuts roasting over an open Flame War fire) I can reveal that in my opinion Bag of Tricks has no place in LG. Writers Guidelines say that access to such an item should not be given in lower than APL10 modules but with many 'blanket access' favors (= Buy a single magic item from DMG up to value of X) they have popped out. For what is does, Bag of Tricks (Tan) is horribly overpowered for lower APLs and it's price 6.300gp is not really a deterrent as money for it can be collected quite easily, making lower APLs no challenge whatsoever, as 10 times/module creature with respectable hitpoints takes term 'speed-bump' into new levels. Consider that the nearest equivalent equipment coming anywhere close to it is wand of Summon Monster IV and that costs over three times as much and ultimately exhausts itself, while BoT does no such thing. S.H, the guy from Naerie
gninja 01-03-06, 06:07 PM	Hello, January. Where's the LGCS at?
JohnduBois 01-03-06, 06:44 PM	I suggest that you join the Yahoo groups if you are so demanding of answers that three days into the projected release month for the LGCS, you are already asking where it is. Living_Greyhawk will get you most of the updates. And to answer your question, the Circle's latest estimate (emphasis on the word ESTIMATE) as given to the Yahoo group (and also by Circle member Tim Sech earlier in THIS THREAD) is MID-January, which I don't personally consider the 3rd to be...
TimRat 01-06-06, 11:50 AM	its coming mid january is still the time line. were working on a few things as i type this and discussing things as i just have seen it. rest assured it will be out. like chris one of the good things about it is that we could incorporate some of the books that came out in december.
SteveMND 01-06-06, 03:48 PM	Is there going to be any sort of opportunity to lobby for actual changes or additions to the LGCS (some of us asked about this earlier, but I rather seriously doubt it given the little time left)? I greatly appreciate the Circle providing us with a draft to look at ahead of publication, but so far that draft review period has largely been a session of us reviewing what the Circle has already decided would be in there, and mostly suggesting changes, tweaks, pointing out possible problems, etc. We have very little opportunity to suggest things like actually adding or changing some aspect of the campaign itself (such as the possibility of changing the Craft rules to actually make stuff, as opposed to just using them to create spare change). I realize that representatives (Triads, Circle members, you, etc.) watch the boards all year long, but the occasional comment from us here and there over the months has precious little import compared to posts regarding the subjects in a forum specifically designed for that sort of dialogue.
Puggle Halfwine 01-06-06, 09:42 PM	Me, I'm just hoping for the change to half-elves I've been raving about on another thread. Then, I'll be happy to just sitdownandshutup.
King Kashue 01-08-06, 02:34 AM	Do you need any any "King Kashue" blood for writing the rough draft? I don't think it good enoph for the final draft.. but the rough draft.. maybee. :bored: My blood is free to whomever can take it from me...You're welcome to try, teahat... ;) But take note, I ain't the king for nothing... :king:
Nidome 01-08-06, 05:58 PM	I suggest that you join the Yahoo groups if you are so demanding of answers that three days into the projected release month for the LGCS, you are already asking where it is. Living_Greyhawk will get you most of the updates. Except that the powers that be have said that the LGCS discussion will take place on this forum. Of course a forum such as this is exceptionally badly suited to such a discussion, but since we have no control over such things, we will just have to make the best of it. Nick.
JohnduBois 01-08-06, 08:05 PM	I understand that the draft discussion will take place on this board. However, if there is a delay in the release of the draft, it is likely to be announced.leaked on the yahoo group before it would be here.
Moryath 01-10-06, 11:31 AM	You should see the document sometime in mid-January. The LGCS goes live in the campaign before Winter Fantasy each year. Since Winter Fantasy moved to late February, this gave us the opportunity to actually have the review period _after_ the holidays, which is a good thing (not only for you, but for me, since I update the whole thing). Translation: Winter Fantasy was pushed back. This is a good thing, because it gives them a chance to get the Spell Compendium into the campaign, and not having the SC in the campaign would make WotC pissy in the same way that not doing that ridiculous Sandstorm arc (including stealing one of our Core Mod slots for the year to create a not-quite-an-intro mod that more people have skipped than played) would have.
Arvagor 01-10-06, 12:06 PM	This is a good thing, because it gives them a chance to get the Spell Compendium into the campaign, and not having the SC in the campaign would make WotC pissy in the same way that not doing that ridiculous Sandstorm arc (including stealing one of our Core Mod slots for the year to create a not-quite-an-intro mod that more people have skipped than played) would have. :mymy: Geez?!? Did someone not have their coffee today??? I don't see Magic of Incarnum, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Epic Level Handbook, Ghostwalk, Oriental Adventures, Stormwrack, Unearthed Arcana, or Weapons of Legacy in the campaign either, and the campaign still chugs along despite that fact... Do you honestly think Winter Fantasy was pushed back just so the LGCS review could wait for Spell Compendium to be released? Wait, Agent Mulder's at the door -- he's got some conspiracy theories he'd like to work out with you...
TimRat 01-10-06, 12:18 PM	LOL ya WF was not pushed back b/c of the LGCS. but ya the spell compendium is in it along with stormwrack and such. books like that as usual. if suggestions are given that are written up in good form and are well thought out then sure we'll look it over. the crafting thing to actually make things..are you speaking about like making mundane items such as masterwork stuff?
Sceadeau 01-10-06, 01:31 PM	I'd love to see the craft skills useful for making mundane things, especially MW exotic weapons. It would be a good way for characters who want to specialize in a certain non-core weapon to be able to do that without upsetting the balance of the campaign. Especially now that meta-orgs give much less access than they used to, a way to help us even out the luck factor of the AR would be a great boon.
Moryath 01-10-06, 04:09 PM	LOL ya WF was not pushed back b/c of the LGCS. but ya the spell compendium is in it along with stormwrack and such. books like that as usual. if suggestions are given that are written up in good form and are well thought out then sure we'll look it over. the crafting thing to actually make things..are you speaking about like making mundane items such as masterwork stuff? I'm not implying that WF was pushed back for the LGCS, but I do think the reason the LGCS update isn't out yet is that the Circle is deciding what out of Stormwrack/Spell Compendium to make Core/Limited/Restricted. And I do think that if SC enters, then all the spells that are altered negatively are going to raise some complaints from characters who used Complete Book versions of them beforehand. So this makes things dicey. And it's one of the few times that I might actually suggest the Circle state which version of a spell is kept, rather than just going with "latest published source." For that matter, there's the problem of the Sleight of Hand rules out of Races of Stone, which essentially give a spellcaster the Silent AND Still Spell feats anytime they want them (allowing characters to both hide their spellcasting movement AND subvocalize spells instead of speaking in a clear voice) as long as they have some form of ranks in Sleight of Hand, opposed only by a Spot (but not a Listen) check. That definitely needs some looking at, because it's terribly broken.
Sieylianna 01-10-06, 05:28 PM	And I do think that if SC enters, then all the spells that are altered negatively are going to raise some complaints from characters who used Complete Book versions of them beforehand. So this makes things dicey. And it's one of the few times that I might actually suggest the Circle state which version of a spell is kept, rather than just going with "latest published source." A triad member has said on a regional lists that once the Circle includes the Spell Compendium in the LG campaign, the SC version will be the official version. Hopefully, the LGCS will include a list of these spells, so people can weigh how much it matters to them. Ed
Arvagor 01-10-06, 05:31 PM	And I do think that if SC enters, then all the spells that are altered negatively are going to raise some complaints from characters who used Complete Book versions of them beforehand. So this makes things dicey. And it's one of the few times that I might actually suggest the Circle state which version of a spell is kept, rather than just going with "latest published source.":twitch: There are no negative/positive alterations to a spell -- such judgements are subjective at best. If a spell's text/description/functionality has been altered during its addition to the Spell Compendium, then obviously the powers-that-be (i.e. WotC) have decided that there's something wrong with the spell as it was originally published (can anyone say "the Spikes/Brambles" fiasco?), and Spell Compendium can be considered the most recent errata. I, for one, would welcome the Circle saying, "If a spell appears in multiple sources, one of them being the Spell Compendium, then since the Spell Compendium is the most recently published version of a rule (the spell), it is the authoritative version in use in LG". Will that happen? Doubtful, because then you get everybody and their mother complaining :rant: that WotC has once again "forced" them to buy more product...
solbergb 01-10-06, 07:17 PM	There will be some impact on spont casters if the SC is adopted, since quite a few spells changed their level, and some transformed significantly in their effects. Presumably a spont caster with a spell that changed level not only can swap out a spell, he has to. Those that just change you're stuck with if you don't like it until you can swap it out by leveling. Other casters, of course, will just change up their spell mix.
Arvagor 01-10-06, 08:55 PM	I dunno; I figure it's pointless for the most part to debate book choices, as IME those are already decided by the time the LGCS come to the players. What I truly hope for, is that once the review does start, is that these boards have been beefed up a bit -- the influx of LG players coming for the review will not treat them nicely (ironic note: this is my 2nd attempt at posting this response, as the first time I hit 'Submit', I got a message back that said the boards were down for maintenance...)
JamesMaissen 01-11-06, 02:08 AM	if suggestions are given that are written up in good form and are well thought out then sure we'll look it over. the crafting thing to actually make things..are you speaking about like making mundane items such as masterwork stuff? Where would you like such suggestions sent? On these boards, private email, the Yahoo group? Would you prefer them separated by topic or en masse as it were? As to crafting things to actually make things, yes I'm sure it was in reference to using the craft skill to make mundane items. It's something that has been suggested for quite awhile now (atleast as long as MIC has been able to make things). Now while I'm here I would add a suggestion that I've made in the past (please forgive if this is not the proper venue for it). I think it would be nice to be able to hire NPCs to perform crafting/training tasks (Craft, make magical items, train dogs/horses) for reasonable and comparable costs. For example, in the case of magical items all the rules would still apply (ie those concerning access, required character level, TU costs, home region/metaregion), but you would pay full gp value instead of half as well as spending for whatever casting you could not supply yourself. This would 'level' the playing field between those with craft feats and those without.. making the feats in question a money saver (as they merely are in a home campaign) rather than an access granter (that they have been distorted into in LG). Anyway, that's one of the suggestions that I have for consideration, Thank you for your time, James Maissen
Moryath 01-11-06, 04:52 PM	:twitch: There are no negative/positive alterations to a spell -- such judgements are subjective at best. If a spell's text/description/functionality has been altered during its addition to the Spell Compendium, then obviously the powers-that-be (i.e. WotC) have decided that there's something wrong with the spell as it was originally published (can anyone say "the Spikes/Brambles" fiasco?), and Spell Compendium can be considered the most recent errata. Not so. Plenty of spells simply get the nerfbat - their effects are reduced. In the case of Clerics they can simply pick different spells; in the case of arcane casters, I would say the Circle should allow memorization casters to swap it out in their spell book and list-o-spells casters (favored soul, sorceror, bard) to swap it out too if the spell's been reduced.
Arvagor 01-11-06, 05:15 PM	Not so. Plenty of spells simply get the nerfbat - their effects are reduced. :rolleye2: As I said, a subjective (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/subjective) judgement...
King Kashue 01-11-06, 10:30 PM	Not so. Plenty of spells simply get the nerfbat - their effects are reduced. :rolleye2: As I said, a subjective (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/subjective) judgement... Don't hurt yourself rolling your eyes... :p It's not necessarily subjective...I believe a few spells have had their damage dice changed to a smaller die or do less dice per caster level, that is a quantifiable reduction in effect. Also, several spells have had their level increased, which is a reduction in effect per spell level (i.e., a 3rd level spell producing a specific effect is stronger than a 4th level producing the exact same effect)
Arvagor 01-11-06, 11:21 PM	Saying the effect is reduced is one thing (that's being objective). Saying some spells got the "nerfbat" means, in effect, "I used this spell, or was considering using it when I next gained a level; now it's not insanely broken, and I feel I personally got the shaft from the CEO of Hasbro" (or something to that effect...) Wikipedia's comments to the contrary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_%28computer_gaming%29), "nerf" has no positive connotations in my book
King Kashue 01-12-06, 03:41 AM	Saying the effect is reduced is one thing (that's being subjective). Saying some spells got the "nerfbat" means, in effect, "I used this spell, or was considering using it when I next gained a level; now it's not insanely broken, and I feel I personally got the shaft from the CEO of Hasbro" (or something to that effect...) Wikipedia's comments to the contrary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_%28computer_gaming%29), "nerf" has no positive connotations in my book I think you've got it reversed there...Saying an effect is reduced is objective, i.e., quantifiable fact...Saying it was 'nerfed' is subjective, i.e. personal interpretation...
Azerin 01-12-06, 08:08 AM	and, while we're at it, what is.. "is" ? Haha can't wait to see the comments on the new LCGS. mmmm fun :) -Azerin
Arvagor 01-12-06, 10:07 AM	I think you've got it reversed there...Saying an effect is reduced is objective, i.e., quantifiable fact...Saying it was 'nerfed' is subjective, i.e. personal interpretation... :doh: Yes, that is what I meant! :crazy: (sheepishly goes back and corrects his post...)
TimRat 01-12-06, 02:51 PM	Any spells that come out in the latest book are always considered the most up to date ones and are used going forward. We can't have 2 versions of spells floating around and thus is why the spell compendium will be the latest version of the spells that have been updated. suggestions to the LGCS can be made when the thread goes up in a few days (i believe days)
pedr 01-12-06, 07:07 PM	So what's the mechanism for distributing the details of these revised spells to those people who don't buy the Spell Compendium? Or will spells from the Complete books etc which are changed in the Spell Compendium no longer be available to players unless they bring the Spell Compendium to the table with them? I haven't bought the book and don't know how wide the changes are, but that could be quite significant (and unfair!) if suddenly players lose the right to use particular spells because a compliation book is used to correct errata. I want to be able to assume that some thought has gone into the situation that wizards and sorcerers may find themselves in whereby they know a particular spell which is a certain level in the current (i.e. old) source but has had its level changed by the Spell Compendium leaving them either unable to cast it, or with too many/too few spells of a particular level known (for Sorcerers). Any advance hints as to how we'll be dealing with this?!
boojumbunn 01-12-06, 07:47 PM	Hmmm.. probably the same distrubtion mechanism they used for the Complete Arcane. (You bought or borrowed the book) I COULD see a list of spell names along with their levels being released, but not any of the details interior to the spells (such as area, application or duration) that might or might not have changed.
copper_wyrmling 01-12-06, 09:15 PM	Any spells that come out in the latest book are always considered the most up to date ones and are used going forward. We can't have 2 versions of spells floating around and thus is why the spell compendium will be the latest version of the spells that have been updated. On p.31 of the LGCS, in the Core spell list, the entry for Nature's Favor lists CD and CV as valid sources. The spell is quite different between those two sources (different level and different duration iirc). Just why can't we have two versions of a given spell floating around? (That's a serious question, not rhetorical.) It's not like it would be any more work to leave the current versions available, and it would avoid people losing access to Core spells (which are presumably considered reasonably balanced, by their Core classification) if the new versions end up Limited or Restricted. Just because something's in the Spell Compendium doesn't mean it's going to be balanced (as far as I can see Wraithstrike hasn't been altered). Even if that situation doesn't occur, I would rather not have to buy a new book just to keep using my characters' favourite spells (and I'm sure there are a *lot* of people in the same situation).
Arvagor 01-12-06, 09:50 PM	as far as I can see Wraithstrike hasn't been alteredUm... you might want to pick a better example, seeing as wraithstrike is a restricted spell for LG...
copper_wyrmling 01-13-06, 12:48 AM	Um... you might want to pick a better example, seeing as wraithstrike is a restricted spell for LG... Arvagor, that was the point of that sentence in my post - "Just because something's in the Spell Compendium doesn't mean it's going to be balanced". Wraithstrike is a spell that's evidently considered problematic (aka "unbalanced", "broken", etc), that's why it's Restricted. The Spell Compendium version is identical to the original. Thus the Spell Compendium didn't fix all the spells that are considered unbalanced in LG, and it may have created some new problems. There are several spells that became objectively better. As an example to clarify what I'm talking about, maybe people will feel that Unluck as a L3 spell, or Righteous Wrath of the Faithful as a L5 spell, are too powerful, and they'll become Limited or even Restricted. That would be a bit hard on people who were perfectly happy using them at their original levels (4 for Unluck, 7 for Righteous Wrath). (Note that this is just an example, I'd be surprised if those particular spells were restricted, but I don't have the book yet so I can't go through it looking for spells that became a lot better for their level.) I just don't see *why* we can't have two versions of a given spell, since all the work of determining whether the original version is Core / Limited / NPC-Only / Restricted has already been done. If someone wants to explain it to me I'd be happy to listen ;)
qstor 01-13-06, 10:11 AM	Any spells that come out in the latest book are always considered the most up to date ones and are used going forward. We can't have 2 versions of spells floating around and thus is why the spell compendium will be the latest version of the spells that have been updated. suggestions to the LGCS can be made when the thread goes up in a few days (i believe days) Personally, I think this is a HUGE Drawback, you can't force DM's to buy the spell compendium, when LG is supposed to use mostly the Core books. If any spells are errated from the PHB into the Spell compendium the errata should be elsewhere. I'm not going to buy the Spell Compendium and I don't think the campaign should force DMs to get it. If players or authors want to use spells in there as extra goodies, that's fine but the spells should be printed in the module if NPC's are using them in the mods, just like spells from Libers Morits or Complete Arcane. Just my 2 cents.. Mike
Halfbat 01-13-06, 10:18 AM	Personally, I think this is a HUGE Drawback, [...] If any spells are errated from the PHB into the Spell compendium the errata should be elsewhere. I'm not going to buy the Spell Compendium and I don't think the campaign should force DMs to get it. Absolutely. Agree: what a disasterous approach. Up till now it hasn't been the policy to force anyone to buy books outside core - and players only need the PHB. To start turning from this is a major shift in policy.
pedr 01-13-06, 10:23 AM	If any spells are errated from the PHB into the Spell compendium the errata should be elsewhere. I think that the Spell Compendium only includes spells that are not in the PHB. The issue is what of spells from alternative sources which are now released, as closed content, with changes which amount to errata. If you only use the three core books, the Spell Compendium won't make a difference. If you are used to using a particular CA spell which is suddenly made a level higher/changed from SR: No to SR: Yes/changed damage dice etc etc, what happens when you use it for the first time after the new LGCS comes into force? What happens to stat blocks of third level spell casters with a spell on their list which becomes third level instead of second in the Spell Compendium? Particularly if/as there is no authoritative list of the changes made so we're relying on people noticing that something is different.
kenobi65 01-13-06, 10:29 AM	I think that the Spell Compendium only includes spells that are not in the PHB. The issue is what of spells from alternative sources which are now released, as closed content, with changes which amount to errata. This is absolutely correct: Spell Compendium contains no spells from the Player's Handbook. You could play LG before the Spell Compendium with just Core books; that hasn't changed. If your character has gotten access to spells from a non-core source (e.g., Complete Arcane, Complete Divine), it is up to you, as the player, to bring a copy of that source to the table. That's in the LGCS. LG does not force DMs to bring that stuff along. What this'll do is force many of the players to buy the Spell Compendium if they want to keep using non-Core spells.
boojumbunn 01-13-06, 01:14 PM	I just don't see *why* we can't have two versions of a given spell, since all the work of determining whether the original version is Core / Limited / NPC-Only / Restricted has already been done. If someone wants to explain it to me I'd be happy to listen ;) When ballancing a game, the best ballance you can achieve is to have both in game and out of game reasons for what is keeping the ballance. It is often the in game reasons that are not considered when reballancing is done to a game. In game, a mage spell has it's level set by a combination of how difficult the spell is to cast and how much energy the caster must channel to cast the spell... how challenging it is. In game, it makes no sense (for example) for the spell to be both a 2nd and a 3rd level spell based on out of game information (such as which book the player owns.) For that matter, it doesn't make much sense if one spell has different/more features than the other, yet they are the same level. So for in game reasons I would suggest against having multiple versions from game books stand... boojum
Iswald 01-13-06, 11:49 PM	It makes perfect sense for multiple versions of a spell each with their own effects. Not all casters will have learned a spell the same way or could have learned variations that work differently. Confusing for players and judges perhaps, but completely logical in-game.
boojumbunn 01-15-06, 05:21 AM	It makes perfect sense for multiple versions of a spell each with their own effects. Not all casters will have learned a spell the same way or could have learned variations that work differently. Confusing for players and judges perhaps, but completely logical in-game. I don't agree.. I think that the spells have been refined to the point of optimum performance. You just don't get all that much more out of the spell at your current level of skill. I know this was upheld in the spell creation rules for 2nd edition (where they discussed the creation of new spells and how they had not yet been optimized for best usage, so might be of higher level than normal... to be later refined and made easier). At any rate, unless the mage is creating his OWN spell then I think the spells in the game have been refined by ages of study and work. For existing spells, the magic missile spell of today is the magic missile spell of 100 years ago.. no more real refinements are available. boojum
waerlinga 01-15-06, 11:39 AM	What this'll do is force many of the players to buy the Spell Compendium if they want to keep using non-Core spells. Methinks that I dislike the word 'force' in that last sentence, even though it perfectly fits. New spells from the Spell Compendium are great, but revisions of old spells should have been produced as errata. Of course, when you have a large base of LG players that you can 'force' to buy your books (again), the almighty dollar speaks loud and clear. :banghead: Larry
Iswald 01-19-06, 10:32 AM	I don't agree.. I think that the spells have been refined to the point of optimum performance. You just don't get all that much more out of the spell at your current level of skill. I know this was upheld in the spell creation rules for 2nd edition (where they discussed the creation of new spells and how they had not yet been optimized for best usage, so might be of higher level than normal... to be later refined and made easier). At any rate, unless the mage is creating his OWN spell then I think the spells in the game have been refined by ages of study and work. For existing spells, the magic missile spell of today is the magic missile spell of 100 years ago.. no more real refinements are available. boojum Unless I'm mistaken, the 3.5 rules says something to the same effect about spells becoming refined. However, that seems unlikely to me. There would be some groups and individuals that would cooperate and try to improve spells. However, there are also paranoid groups that wouldn't share information with each other or even their own pupils. While there are trends towards efficiency, there are the same towards inefficiency. When you talk about a specific spell, you are really talking about a generic spell. Every wizard could have their own spell that does exactly the same thing (from a game mechanics PoV), but has a different name. When you refine a spell, what do you really mean? For example, which version of cure moderate wound's is better? The one from the cleric spell list or the druid version? They both do exactly the same thing 2d8+1 level (10 max) points of healing. Yet, if you use them for offense, the save DC for the druid version is higher. Does that mean the druid version is better, more refined? Even though the cleric one can be cast more frequently because it is a lower level spell? How does a wizard know if a 'refinement' that they've made is better or worse. The change could be too small to make any major difference. If it the change just happened to have spectacular results when it was first used, it could be passed onto to other wizard even if it wasn't such a good change. While two wizards pursue different paths of refinement, it is plausible that one group has made the spell easier to cast (lower level) while another has made the same spell more difficult to resist (higher level). There's no reason why either group would have had to change the name of the spell that they started with.
cindlin 01-19-06, 10:05 PM	An earler point was made that you would only have to carry this one book instead of all the complete books. That's not the case. If your a spell caster you could find all you spells here but still need the other books for item access you have and what is on the AR's. It also means that someone like me who plays 4 different characters in LG, (sometimes all during the same convention), now has one more book to carry that is a reprint of all the stuff I already have... I like the idea of a printed errata sheet that outlines the changes in a few pages. The only thing that might be of interest to me is that there is new spells from Dragon magazine inside. But if they are not going to become core then what's the point? Thanks, Jeff the Dwarf
Aremedis 01-19-06, 10:09 PM	this is what led to me taking my laptop to conventions and game days. Whenever I buy a new book, I scan in the information which may be relevent to one of my characters, then have it in handy .pdf format, at a moments notice.
King Kashue 01-19-06, 11:29 PM	An earler point was made that you would only have to carry this one book instead of all the complete books. That's not the case. If your a spell caster you could find all you spells here but still need the other books for item access you have and what is on the AR's. It also means that someone like me who plays 4 different characters in LG, (sometimes all during the same convention), now has one more book to carry that is a reprint of all the stuff I already have... Or you could just copy the page or two that applies to your characters, and leave the books at home...
WotC_Tulach 01-20-06, 12:45 AM	An earler point was made that you would only have to carry this one book instead of all the complete books. That's not the case. If your a spell caster you could find all you spells here but still need the other books for item access you have and what is on the AR's. It also means that someone like me who plays 4 different characters in LG, (sometimes all during the same convention), now has one more book to carry that is a reprint of all the stuff I already have... I like the idea of a printed errata sheet that outlines the changes in a few pages. The only thing that might be of interest to me is that there is new spells from Dragon magazine inside. But if they are not going to become core then what's the point? Thanks, Jeff the Dwarf Well, first off, as King Kashue pointed out, you can photocopy feats, prestige classes, and other rules items from the other books. Then, if you usually just cast spells from the PHB, Complete books, and the Miniatures Handbook, you're all set if you have the Spell Compendium and a PHB. Let's use a real example; it's from another RPGA campaign, but it applies just as well here. I have a 14th level wizard. I possess 6 feats from outside of the Player's Handbook (all come from Complete Arcane). I possess one prestige class from another source. Assuming all my feats are on different pages, that's about 6 photocopied pages of feats I need, plus about 3 or so for the prestige class. That's less than 10 pages. Now, my character casts spells from the Miniatures Handbook, Complete Adventurer, and Complete Arcane. I have access to about 20 or so spells from those sources. Usually, I bring along all three of those books, along with my PHB, when I want to play the character. That's 4 books, which is a little hefty for one character. Now, I can just bring the 9 pages of photocopied material for my feats and prestige classes, the PHB, and all of my "other" spells are convienently listed alphabetically in one book, making it very easy for me to thumb back and forth to look up spells. When you see the actual practical use of the book, it makes a lot of sense. Plus, there are a good number of spells that have had errata issued to them with this printing, so they have to go into the campaign at some point (we are not going to use old versions of the same spells when they appear in a general D&D book). Yes, if you want to use the neat spells out of the Complete books, you'll need to buy this book. No one ever said that you wouldn't need to buy another book to use material from a non-PHB source. Wizards put out a big book of spells, with lots of much improved errata and updates to existing material, and we're going to use it.
paigeoliver 01-20-06, 12:55 AM	It really makes a lot of sense to have any applicable stuff for your character photocopied and kept in the binder with the character sheet. Not just spells, but other things as well. I am about to photocopy and paste myself some quick rules references for my marshall. Between auras, a whip, tripping, assisting attacks and disarming I find that I am doing a lot of things more complicated than normal attack rules (including some things that some GMs don't know the rules on too well). I have found particularly that most GMs are not too clear about the details on how whips work (probably because no one uses them).
Sieylianna 01-20-06, 07:21 AM	An earler point was made that you would only have to carry this one book instead of all the complete books. That's not the case. If your a spell caster you could find all you spells here but still need the other books for item access you have and what is on the AR's. In addition, the spells from the Races books and the Environment books are not included in the Spell Compendium. So it doesn't even put all the spells in one place, you still need multiple books for spells. Ed
Lomiat 01-20-06, 10:17 AM	Personally, I'm hoping many of the spells from the Spell Compendium don't become Core but become Limited (except for the ones that need to become Restricted). Access is one of the things that makes LG fun to play. If every spell suddenly gets dumped into our laps, it's not nearly as tempting to buy the book as if, after a few modules, my wizard suddenly "earns" access to half a dozen new spells. We pay money because we enjoy the experience. Might as well maximize the experience to money ratio. Of course, others will have differing opinions, but I know I don't stand alone on the subtle (and not so subtle) joys of access.
gizmonster 01-20-06, 12:03 PM	Personally, I'm hoping many of the spells from the Spell Compendium don't become Core but become Limited (except for the ones that need to become Restricted). Access is one of the things that makes LG fun to play. If every spell suddenly gets dumped into our laps, it's not nearly as tempting to buy the book as if, after a few modules, my wizard suddenly "earns" access to half a dozen new spells. We pay money because we enjoy the experience. Might as well maximize the experience to money ratio. Of course, others will have differing opinions, but I know I don't stand alone on the subtle (and not so subtle) joys of access. I am with you 100%.
Iswald 01-20-06, 01:10 PM	When you see the actual practical use of the book, it makes a lot of sense. Plus, there are a good number of spells that have had errata issued to them with this printing, so they have to go into the campaign at some point (we are not going to use old versions of the same spells when they appear in a general D&D book). Yes, if you want to use the neat spells out of the Complete books, you'll need to buy this book. No one ever said that you wouldn't need to buy another book to use material from a non-PHB source. Wizards put out a big book of spells, with lots of much improved errata and updates to existing material, and we're going to use it. For somebody with excess cash, it would make sense to fork it over to WotC for what appears to be primarily convenience. On the other hand, if I've already spent $80 plus on four books, and am perpetually low on funds, then it doesn't make spend another $30 on something I already have. Not to mention, I need copies of the books to look at if I gain access to items or spells while I'm at a con and don't have photocopies with that material. If I only had SC, then I would still have to purchase the complete series if I wanted to use any prestige classes, magic items or even some mundane items from those sources. SC doesn't really add much of value to LG.
JohnduBois 01-20-06, 02:22 PM	I'm going to copy and paste something that a player/writer in my region (Andrew Nuxoll, for those of you who play in Michigan) said about the Spell Compendium's inclusion that I felt was very well put: "I won't make the low brow argument that you don't need to buy the spell compendium to play LG. While that's technically true, we all know it's not really doable. The argument that I will make is that D&D is a pretty cheap hobby. The real cost of LG is attending conventions. Hotel + gas + badge + tickets + food = $$$. I could easily re-purchase half my D&D 3.5 library with the amount of money the average person spends to go to GenCon. If you attend conventions you should be nodding in agreement. If you don't, then you should realize that you should know that you're getting a deal. $30 is not gonna break the bank (and I'm poorer than most). Buying the spell compendium was a no-brainer purchase for me. If you're not having enough fun to justify buying the book then I think you're not having enough fun."
Lomiat 01-20-06, 02:31 PM	My primary quibble with the Spell Compendium is actually about how quickly thrown together it must have been; some of the quality is pretty roughshod. I noticed at least a few spells whose "blurbs" hadn't been edited in the back to reflect changes from the Complete books but whose full text descriptions were significantly altered. I assume while we're going to update the campaign to reflect the new book, the full-text will take precendce over the blurbs, right? Anyway, I just want that crazy-powerful fire dagger 2nd lvl sor/wiz spell to be made Core acces for my arcane trickster. I mean, come on lurking Circle members, the 10 Con elf was crazy enough to become a front-line, two-weapon wielding melee combatant. Let me have the fire-damage touch attacks... Booyah!
copper_wyrmling 01-20-06, 07:35 PM	Personally, I'm hoping many of the spells from the Spell Compendium don't become Core but become Limited (except for the ones that need to become Restricted). Access is one of the things that makes LG fun to play. If every spell suddenly gets dumped into our laps, it's not nearly as tempting to buy the book as if, after a few modules, my wizard suddenly "earns" access to half a dozen new spells. We pay money because we enjoy the experience. Might as well maximize the experience to money ratio. Of course, others will have differing opinions, but I know I don't stand alone on the subtle (and not so subtle) joys of access. This is probably true if you live in a region where you get access to Limited spells on a regular basis. My L9 sorcerer has seen access to Limited spells in one module in her entire career. I think my L12 cleric has seen it once or twice, and never for cleric spells. From memory, I don't think I've ever encountered Limited spell access in a regional module, and I've played almost every currently available LG module. (And I'm Australian, so no suggestions that I should play more in other regions, please ;) ) It's fun to earn access, yes. It's less fun when there's a large number of interesting spells that you can never use, because you just can't get the access. This is especially true for a sorcerer, who if granted access needs to fit the spell into their levelling plan somewhere (sorcerers do not get to swap out many spells, and at higher levels stop learning low-level spells). Anyway, just my 2cp.
JohnduBois 01-20-06, 08:09 PM	I really don't think that "play in another region" is an appropriate response to any player who doesn't want everything to become Limited, even if their region isn't across large bodies of water from anyone else. I've been playing for a year and a half. I live an hour away from two other regions (I'm in Furyondy and near Veluna and Ket). I've only played out of region once - when I went to Origins. I simply don't have the resources (or the weekends off work) to drive an hour both ways just to have a chance to get access to a spell, feat, or PrC that may not even exist in the region. Heck, I can barely find the time to play all the mods currently available to me. I realize that Living Campaigns are built for the gamer who can travel, but it's a little irritating when people try to force me to travel long distances so their PC's can feel "unique". There are a lot of other ways to be unique besides restricting access to things.
Sieylianna 01-20-06, 10:08 PM	$30 is not gonna break the bank (and I'm poorer than most). Buying the spell compendium was a no-brainer purchase for me. If you're not having enough fun to justify buying the book then I think you're not having enough fun." Actually, the book is $39.95 at my local game store. I try to support local retailers where possible. Ed
Iswald 01-22-06, 10:17 PM	I'm going to copy and paste something that a player/writer in my region (Andrew Nuxoll, for those of you who play in Michigan) said about the Spell Compendium's inclusion that I felt was very well put: "I won't make the low brow argument that you don't need to buy the spell compendium to play LG. While that's technically true, we all know it's not really doable. The argument that I will make is that D&D is a pretty cheap hobby. The real cost of LG is attending conventions. Hotel + gas + badge + tickets + food = $$$. I could easily re-purchase half my D&D 3.5 library with the amount of money the average person spends to go to GenCon. If you attend conventions you should be nodding in agreement. If you don't, then you should realize that you should know that you're getting a deal. $30 is not gonna break the bank (and I'm poorer than most). Buying the spell compendium was a no-brainer purchase for me. If you're not having enough fun to justify buying the book then I think you're not having enough fun." I don't go to GenCon because the cost is too high. I don't even go to movies more than a couple times a year, if I even go. Again, the cost is high. It was fine to include optional material that required the purchase of additional books. It was then up to the player to decide if they wanted to spend the money. However, out of the blue, the policy was changed. Now, even if I buy books to take advantage of additional spells, there's no way to predict if I will continue to have access to those spells. At any time, the circle could decide that you have to buy another book to keep using something that is unchanged. It's not as if we were going from 3.5 to 4.0 which would require a new set of books, and basicly force me to quit LG. It could be that I was having fun using just the books I had. Forcing me to buy another book to continue doing what I was doing, doesn't sound like fun to me.
Puggle Halfwine 01-22-06, 10:32 PM	Back on topic. Any word on when the new LGCS will be available for us, and when we can suggest changes/fixes?
haferka 01-22-06, 11:10 PM	Back on topic. Any word on when the new LGCS will be available for us, and when we can suggest changes/fixes? If you believe that you will get the oportunity to get something changed AFTER it is FINALLY posted.. you are kidding yourself. I dont think it has EVER happened. And I welcome the day when I am proven wrong.
Sieylianna 01-23-06, 07:41 AM	If you believe that you will get the oportunity to get something changed AFTER it is FINALLY posted.. you are kidding yourself. I dont think it has EVER happened. And I welcome the day when I am proven wrong. Then you would be wrong. The Circle has consistently listened to the feedback on the LG-Draft-Discussion Yahoo group and some changes have been made. They may not make all the changes you would like, but I know in one previous draft, they made about have the changes I suggested. When the latest rules for playing out of APL were announced, PCs playing down also got 1/2 GP, but there was a significant amount of resistance on the draft list and the final document gave full GP to PCs playing down. Ed
Paul H 01-23-06, 08:02 AM	Hi As to Copper Wyrmlings' point on access - I thought that in the case of spellcasters with complete spell lists (not those who choose, like sorcerors), that the Limited spells are automatically added to your lists once you reach 3rd lvl? Eg, Limited access spells from (as were) the Complete books automatically available to most Divine casters & Warmages. (My main char is both). And Wizards/Sorcerors etc. can choose spells from limited list when they level. (Minimum 3rd lvl). Lastly I agree having all spells in one book is good idea. (Biased opininion - play mostly spellcasters), but more than 3 weeks notice would have been nice. Off to Conception next week, not even sure I can use main character because he's Clr 3/Warmage 3, & can't afford newbook. Will take list of spells, & hope GM allows me to use Complete books. (Provided not using spells from list of those changed). Cheers Paul H
Simpi 01-23-06, 08:31 AM	Hi As to Copper Wyrmlings' point on access - I thought that in the case of spellcasters with complete spell lists (not those who choose, like sorcerors), that the Limited spells are automatically added to your lists once you reach 3rd lvl? Eg, Limited access spells from (as were) the Complete books automatically available to most Divine casters & Warmages. (My main char is both). That is certainly not the case. Page 22 of LGCS says: --------- Limited: A character must be 3rd level or higher and (emphasis mine) have some sort of campaign documentation to take anything in this category. Note that the Expanded Creation Options in Chapter 1 are considered campaign ---------- So for example, Lesser acid orb (being a Core access spell) can be added to your spell list from 3rd level onwards. Clerics of course get access to all Core divine spells such as Deific Vengeance. Limited spells, such as Blizzard or Illusory Pit still require access from AR, meta-organisation or some other source. S.H, the guy from Naerie
darrell 01-23-06, 09:46 AM	He's getting confuced with CORE spells from sources other than the PHB. These are the spells that you gain access to at 3rd level. Limited spells require 3rd level and AR access.
haferka 01-23-06, 10:11 AM	He's getting confuced with CORE spells from sources other than the PHB. These are the spells that you gain access to at 3rd level. Limited spells require 3rd level and AR access. AR access grants access to any listed spell at any lvl. Core Access spells from sources other than the PH do NOT become available untill you hit lvl 3.
darrell 01-23-06, 01:37 PM	I think that you will find that you are mistaken. LGC 4.2 page 24. "Limited: A character must be 3rd level or higher and have some sort of campaign documentation to take anything in this category. Note that the Expanded Creation Options are considered campaign documentation."
Puggle Halfwine 01-23-06, 08:04 PM	If you believe that you will get the oportunity to get something changed AFTER it is FINALLY posted.. you are kidding yourself. I dont think it has EVER happened. And I welcome the day when I am proven wrong. I ment the draft. When can we see the draft and give feedback?
redgamer 01-23-06, 09:10 PM	I think I remember the Circle saying the hoped to open the draft board at the end of January. That does not seem like it will happen, but rest assured the draft is coming soon. I beleive the triads are currently reviewing the LGCS. The current LGCS features literaly dozens of changes suggested by players during the review process. For at least two of these, I remember thinking "wow that's a significant change." Most of the player suggested changes are suggestions that the triads have already heard all the pros and cons for and discussed them at length. The triad are rather eager to listen to players and hear suggestions 365 not only the approximately 2 weeks the LGCS is officially open for review.
Lomiat 01-25-06, 11:36 AM	Are we likely to have a list of the spells that will be made Core access before players with wizard characters have to modify their spell lists in February? Because, um, that would be handy.
redgamer 01-25-06, 11:43 AM	I have heard from six different second hand sources that no additions to the core list of spells will be made. I can't verify that information, but for my purposes I'm assuming its correct.
Sieylianna 01-25-06, 12:04 PM	I have heard from six different second hand sources that no additions to the core list of spells will be made. I can't verify that information, but for my purposes I'm assuming its correct. Chris Tulach (Circle) posted on the LG group that no spells from the SC will be core access, unless they are already core access. Ed
Paul H 01-25-06, 08:14 PM	Hi Yes - I was getting confused with what's 'Limited' etc. - looking at wrong column in LGCS. However - got my copy SC yesterday - when's the Errata coming out? Pg 56 Curse Ill Fortune - listed as Transmutation? :eek: Should be Necromancy. (Like other Curses, including Mass version this Curse)! This is LG listed spell. Pg 180 Sarcophagus of Stone No Caster type/spell level given No range given Not listed in Spell Lists at end of book This is the very reason I didn't want this to be the 'official' book yet - we need to give the 'Powers that Be' a chance to review it and publish their errata in the new LGCS. As it is, we all have to change from 'Complete' books to Spell Comendium, then change again when the Errata/new LGCS comes out. I think that's pretty poor timing, putting udue pressure on our Triads, when all this could have been done together if they delayed the conversion to SC. What do you Guys/Gals think? Cheers Paul H
Mortepierre 01-26-06, 12:21 PM	Chris Tulach (Circle) posted on the LG group that no spells from the SC will be core access, unless they are already core access. Ed And here is that post: 1. All spells not from the PHB will be listed in the adventure. DMs are not required to own any books outside the PHB, DMG, and MM. 2. For those that "don't believe" that there will be no more core access added, it's true. There isn't a single new rules item that came out in 2005 that was added to the LGCS as core. So, you can stop waiting for "more core stuff" to be introduced into the campaign. It isn't going to happen in this LGCS update. End of story. I wrote the update, I placed the items into their respective categories, I know. I made a promise to the triads to _not_ add any more core material to the campaign for this LGCS update, and I've kept to it. So, none of the spells from the Spell Compendium that weren't already core will become core on this LGCS update. Chris Tulach LIVING GREYHAWK Circle Note that he is talking about "core" exclusively. There is no telling what's going to appear on the "limited" list (though I wouldn't get my hopes up..)
Mortepierre 01-26-06, 12:30 PM	However - got my copy SC yesterday - when's the Errata coming out? This is the very reason I didn't want this to be the 'official' book yet - we need to give the 'Powers that Be' a chance to review it and publish their errata in the new LGCS. As it is, we all have to change from 'Complete' books to Spell Comendium, then change again when the Errata/new LGCS comes out. I think that's pretty poor timing, putting udue pressure on our Triads, when all this could have been done together if they delayed the conversion to SC. What do you Guys/Gals think? Cheers Paul H Eh, welcome to the club. You can get an officious list of the errors found so far here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8185103&postcount=37 WotC has already confirmed that there would be an errata but there they are going slowly about it in order not to miss anything (yeah, right..). It certainly puts the Circle in a difficult position, mainly because they are caught between the hammer (WotC) and the anvil (us LG players). I think that's the main reason behind the decision not to add anything new to core access in the soon-to-be-due version of the LGCS (which is wise because it will give time for the errata to be published) We should react better to it too. When WotC gives them an order, they have no choice but to comply. Getting yelled upon by some players afterwards certainly doesn't help. They are under enormous pressure 24/7, do it all to allow us to have fun - often at the expense of their own! - and should be shown some gratitude once in a while.
Paul H 01-26-06, 04:52 PM	Hi That's the very reason that WotC should have delayed, making us use 'unfinished' material. Never said Triad's fault - totally agree they're caught in middle. WotC had a chance to organise this properly, by publishing errata & new LGCS together, but they blew it. Our Triad (Onwal) had to sort out Gencon & the culmination of campaign re Scarlett Brotherhood before Christmas, then sort out LGCS, now this. My frustration is certainly not aimed towards them. My last post said so. As an Administrator/Advocate (amongst other things), my point is the chopping & changing with series of new information for us to take in, when there was the opportunity to include it in one single document. Still, too late to do anything about it this time. Hopefully WotC will have learnt from their mistake. Cheers Paul H PS Issue not about Core/Limited Spells, we have (soon to be changed) source document on that. It's how can we trust new book before the necessary errata is published?
Eric_Pittsburgh 01-31-06, 10:27 AM	So, are they ever going to post a draft of the LGCS? Eric Pittsburgh
JohnduBois 01-31-06, 10:36 AM	The RPGA home page has details on exactly when this will be occurring. A little late, but hopefully time for major issues to be identified and addressed.
haferka 01-31-06, 10:50 AM	The RPGA home page has details on exactly when this will be occurring. A little late, but hopefully time for major issues to be identified and addressed. what is the url... becouse i just looked and found nothing...
Eric_Pittsburgh 01-31-06, 04:32 PM	I suppose you mean Dispel Confusion volume 1, issue 4? I also seem to recall one of the Cicle members saying the review process would be started sometime in January. That gives them about 7 and a half hours by my watch (eastern time) Eric
JohnduBois 01-31-06, 07:25 PM	Huh. Could have sworn there was something on the RPGA page saying it would be up February 7...
WotC_Tulach 01-31-06, 10:40 PM	There were a couple of small issues that needed to be worked out, but expect to see the LGCS up sometime this week, as well as the creation of an LG rules forum. The forum will be a subforum of the Living Greyhawk forum, and apart from draft document discussion (which only happens for a short time - about a week), it will be a place where you can discuss rules issues as they pertain to the LG game. The forum will be a permanent addition to the WotC messageboards.