Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrochaos 06-05-06, 08:05 PM	I'm looking for a great melee build to do lots and lots of damage. This post is brought to you by Mommy is an Orc and the letter Q. I gotta give credit were credit is due. I steal everything from him because I'm too lazy to do anything myself. \Example: The Half-Orc Kill Things Dead: Barbarian 2/Fighter 4/Occult Slayer 5/Pious Templar 5 Str 20, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 6 1 Barbarian 1: Power Attack 2 Fighter 1: WF: Greatsword 3 Fighter 2: Extra Rage, Improved Initiative 4 Barbarian 2: Str 21 5 Fighter 3 6 Fighter 4: Improved Bullrush, Shock Trooper 7 Occult Slayer 1 8 Occult Slayer 2: Str 22 Any ideas? Also, should I use a reach weapon like a glaive? Any help is totally awesome. Getting reach for a con and making a new character.
paigeoliver 06-05-06, 09:13 PM	I'm not going to post any builds or anything but I am going to make the small comment that you would probably be better off taking weapon focus level one, then improved iniative at level 2 and then taking power attack at level 3. At first level you can only power attack for 1, and you still don't have a good enough hit bonus at that point where you would even want to do it.
hynter 06-05-06, 09:39 PM	I'm not going to post any builds or anything but I am going to make the small comment that you would probably be better off taking weapon focus level one, then improved iniative at level 2 and then taking power attack at level 3. At first level you can only power attack for 1, and you still don't have a good enough hit bonus at that point where you would even want to do it. I disagree. Power attack at first level is two extra damage points, which may often make the difference between a live opponent and an unconscious, bleeding one. WF over PA make a difference of +2 to hit at first level, but it ties you down to a weapon and it pushes Extra Rage until later in the build. You should carry a glaive and a greatsword, and draw the one that's appropriate for the terrain, etc. When you're gonna charge the Ogre with reach, you want to deny the AOO by using the glaive. Plus, I thought the emphasis was on high damage and not accuracy. I like the original build better.
Lomiat 06-05-06, 09:40 PM	There are, of course, a number of factors you have to consider if you want to make a raw damage-dealer. 1) You will likely have a terrible AC and take a huge beating in every combat that your party doesn't finish in 1 or 2 rounds, and pretty often even when you do. 2) There are numerous builds that use characters who buff themselves before going into combat. In no sense will any of them ever prove as effecient at dealing damage (over time) as a character who enters the melee in the first round of every combat. In other words, though Pious Templar is a FANTASTIC class, a Pious Templar won't do as much damage (despite the 5d6 divine sacrifice) as a character who has already taken a full-attack action during the Pious Templar's spellcasting. 3) Are you building for saves and HPs, or just damage potential? The strict damage-potential build sacrifices many things, but the principle is always to serve the party as the one who does more damage to the bad guys (and draws attacks away from other party members) than they do to you. Since LG combats are frequently fairly short (in numbers of rounds) despite their complexity (a 3 round combat might take an hour; last night, a 7-round combat took roughly 2 hours), your goal as a damage dealer is to start beating up your opponent from the word GO. This is why Shock Trooper and Pounce are invaluable. The charger build is the best one for the immediate offensive. I know of two ways an LG character can get the Pounce ability: 1) through the Wildrunner PRC, 2) druid to wild shape and take the Lion's Pounce feat (or Lion's Charge). My prefered build is functional at lower levels but really starts to come together when it gets the Lion's Pounce and Shock Trooper abilities. It takes XP penalties for some levels, but if you wish, you can alternate Drd and Ftr levels to avoid those. Half-orc, N Str 20 Dex 8 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 6 Bbn 1 - Power Attack Drd 2 Drd 3 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) Drd 4 - Str 21 Drd 5 Drd 6 - Lion's Pounce Drd 7 (extra wild shape allows Lion's Pounce 2/day) Ftr 8 - Weapon Focus (bastard sword) - Str 22 Exotic Weapon Master 9 - Uncanny Blow, Improved Bull Rush Ftr 10 - Shock Trooper Ftr 11 Ftr 12 - Str 23; Extra Rage, Reckless Rage OR Improved Sunder, Combat Brute Ftr 13 Ftr 14 - Weapon Specialization (bastard sword) OR Improved Critical (bastard sword) By 13th level, if you take Extra Rage and Reckless Rage, you have a BAB of 11, rage and charge (without magical enhancement) for +24/19/14 (1d10+40[19-20x2]). Far and away, with the charger build, your most important items are: 1) Boots of Speed, 2) Belt of Giant Strength, 3) Magical weapon upgrades. Nice if you can get them are: 1) Rhino Hide or Beastskin light armor, 2) Druid's Vestments. With a +3 weapon (GMW), Belt +4 and Boots of Speed, you charge for +29/29/25/20 (1d10+47 [19-20x2]). The damage adds up.
Jay_Ibero_911 06-05-06, 09:56 PM	Race:Human Alignment:Neutral(Joramy, War+Destruction, Quarterstaff) STR-14 (6) DEX-12 (4) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-15 (8) CHA-10 (2) Lv1(Cleric)Extra Turning, Extend Spell, Weapon Focus(b) Lv2(Cleric) Lv3(Cleric)Persistant Spell Lv4(Cleric)+1 WIS Lv5(Cleric) Lv6(Cleric)Divine Metamagic Lv7(Cleric) Lv8(Fighter)Power Attack, +1 STR Lv9(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper Lv10(Cleric) Lv11(Cleric) Lv12(Cleric)Extra Smiting, +1 STR Lv13(Cleric) Lv14(Cleric) Lv15(Cleric)Feat I know, I know, DMMP cheese, but effective(using divine power). The build doesn't really kick into gear until 7th level when you get 4th level spells, but even at 3rd level when you get brambles it's pretty nice. By 12th level you can really splat something on a charge like so: 12th level attack (spikes+smite+heedless charge): 12 bab+6 str+1 focus+2 weapon+4 smite+2 charge-12 AC=+27 1d6+9str+10 spikes+10smite+24 PA=1d6+53 And all you need is a chance to cast spikes. The attack and damage calculation is assuming DIvine Power is up of course...
ezreal2001 06-05-06, 10:41 PM	There are, of course, a number of factors you have to consider if you want to make a raw damage-dealer. 1) You will likely have a terrible AC and take a huge beating in every combat that your party doesn't finish in 1 or 2 rounds, and pretty often even when you do. 2) There are numerous builds that use characters who buff themselves before going into combat. In no sense will any of them ever prove as effecient at dealing damage (over time) as a character who enters the melee in the first round of every combat. In other words, though Pious Templar is a FANTASTIC class, a Pious Templar won't do as much damage (despite the 5d6 divine sacrifice) as a character who has already taken a full-attack action during the Pious Templar's spellcasting. 3) Are you building for saves and HPs, or just damage potential? The strict damage-potential build sacrifices many things, but the principle is always to serve the party as the one who does more damage to the bad guys (and draws attacks away from other party members) than they do to you. Since LG combats are frequently fairly short (in numbers of rounds) despite their complexity (a 3 round combat might take an hour; last night, a 7-round combat took roughly 2 hours), your goal as a damage dealer is to start beating up your opponent from the word GO. This is why Shock Trooper and Pounce are invaluable. The charger build is the best one for the immediate offensive. I know of two ways an LG character can get the Pounce ability: 1) through the Wildrunner PRC, 2) druid to wild shape and take the Lion's Pounce feat (or Lion's Charge). My prefered build is functional at lower levels but really starts to come together when it gets the Lion's Pounce and Shock Trooper abilities. It takes XP penalties for some levels, but if you wish, you can alternate Drd and Ftr levels to avoid those. Half-orc, N Str 20 Dex 8 Con 14 Int 6 Wis 14 Cha 6 Bbn 1 - Power Attack Drd 2 Drd 3 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) Drd 4 - Str 21 Drd 5 Drd 6 - Lion's Pounce Drd 7 (extra wild shape allows Lion's Pounce 2/day) Ftr 8 - Weapon Focus (bastard sword) - Str 22 Exotic Weapon Master 9 - Uncanny Blow, Improved Bull Rush Ftr 10 - Shock Trooper Ftr 11 Ftr 12 - Str 23; Extra Rage, Reckless Rage OR Improved Sunder, Combat Brute Ftr 13 Ftr 14 - Weapon Specialization (bastard sword) OR Improved Critical (bastard sword) By 13th level, if you take Extra Rage and Reckless Rage, you have a BAB of 11, rage and charge (without magical enhancement) for +24/19/14 (1d10+40[19-20x2]). Far and away, with the charger build, your most important items are: 1) Boots of Speed, 2) Belt of Giant Strength, 3) Magical weapon upgrades. Nice if you can get them are: 1) Rhino Hide or Beastskin light armor, 2) Druid's Vestments. With a +3 weapon (GMW), Belt +4 and Boots of Speed, you charge for +29/29/25/20 (1d10+47 [19-20x2]). The damage adds up. One thought, Have you considered the "Die Hard" feat? Yes it requires endurance, but with the forth level Cleric spell "Delay Death" on top of the Headless Charge Shock Trooper tactic [and Combat Brute], your PC can more or less ignore physical damage while dishing out boat loads of physical damage. Death by massive damage or Disintergrate remains an issue but nothings perfect. Haven't had a chance to field test this os if anyone has tried this I'd love to hear about. J
Cynric 06-06-06, 02:02 AM	Or if you are looking at damage where it is needed try the following Dwarf. str16 dex14 con14 Bbn1 Power attack Bbn1 ftr1 Dodge, Weapon Focus DW Waraxe. ftr2 Mobility ftr3 ftr4 Elusive Target Improved Toughness Occult slayer 1 Attune to your waraxe for more goodness. Exotic Weapon Master1 (More Damage fun) Fighter the rest of the way. Take bullrush, sunder, combat Brute and shocktrooper in your remaining levels. In the end. You have more than 10 hp per level. Your dodge Target cannot power attack you, You use mobility and Elusive target to chase wizards. You can gain damage from your AC and BAB. What gets even funnier is when an opponent BDF or even better rogue chases you back to his wizard and misses you and hits his wizard buddy flatfooted. 2 other feats to look at are extra rage (maybe) and Titan fighting (definately).
Prochytes 06-06-06, 05:11 AM	One thought, Have you considered the "Die Hard" feat? Yes it requires endurance, but with the forth level Cleric spell "Delay Death" on top of the Headless Charge Shock Trooper tactic [and Combat Brute], your PC can more or less ignore physical damage while dishing out boat loads of physical damage. Haven't had a chance to field test this os if anyone has tried this I'd love to hear about. J It has two big flaws. This is the short version; I wil post the longer later if I get time (and noone beats me to it): 1. Expect table variation over what you can do below -10, even with delay death . There is a school of thought that only something like a boar can do anything other than bleed quietly at this point. As I said, this is the short version, but it hinges on how exactly you interpret the spell/Feat interaction. 2. You are vulnerable to the hilarious "1 point of non-lethal damage" strategy. The Feat and the spell give you no protection from the rule that you lose consciousness when your non-lethal damage+your real damage exceed your hps. One non-lethal slap when you have taken shed-loads of damage, and your soi-disant Juggernaut passes out cold.
Prochytes 06-06-06, 05:18 AM	Race:Human Lv3(Cleric)Persistant Spell Persistent Spell is Restricted in LG, I am afraid.
kjenks 06-06-06, 08:51 AM	A Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge build gives you big damage, but your AC will stink. So combine it with Spirited Charge (for even bigger damage) and Ride-by Attack (so your stinky AC won't matter much). Pick up Extra Rage and Reckless Rage. Use a lance while mounted for that juicy triple damage on Spirited Charges.
Iswald 06-06-06, 09:33 AM	Plus, I thought the emphasis was on high damage and not accuracy. I like the original build better. I know this idea is kind of out there, but if you don't hit, isn't your damage zero? At lower levels, it's better to hit and do some damage than to power attack and keep missing.
Mommy was an Orc 06-06-06, 11:55 AM	Of course it is better to hit and do damage than to power attack and miss. But without knowing your miss chance, it is usually better to Power Attack at low amounts at APL than to not. A +1 to hit represents about a +10% to damage. A +2 to damage is usually more than that at low levels. At higher levels, the value of a +1 drops a bit, but so does the value of a +2 to damage. Example: this guy picks up a Halberd(to save cash for that Cold Iron MW Greatsword). He fights someone with a 16 AC. He's got a +6 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 10, or 55% of the time for 1d10+7 damage. Average damage per round = 6.875. Next round he switches to 1 point of Power Attack. He's got a +5 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 11, or 50% of the time for 1d10+9 damage. Average damage per round = 7.25. Next round, he turns on his rage, but uses no Power Attack. He's got a +8 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 8, or 65% of the time for 1d10+10 damage. Average damage per round = 10.075. Next round, he's still raging, but uses 1 point of Power Attack. He's got a +7 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 9, or 60% of the time for 1d10+12 damage. Average damage per round = 10.5. It of course depends on the opponent - better to hit an almost dead opponent, better to power attack one with DR, etc... I know this idea is kind of out there, but if you don't hit, isn't your damage zero? At lower levels, it's better to hit and do some damage than to power attack and keep missing.
Howie23 06-06-06, 03:57 PM	Example: this guy picks up a Halberd(to save cash for that Cold Iron MW Greatsword). He fights someone with a 16 AC. He's got a +6 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 10, or 55% of the time for 1d10+7 damage. Average damage per round = 6.875. Next round he switches to 1 point of Power Attack. He's got a +5 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 11, or 50% of the time for 1d10+9 damage. Average damage per round = 7.25. If looking only at average damage delivered per attack, there is a curve that spells out where to use power attack, and at what level of power attack vs. a given AC. Your example AC 16 is well off of the curve. It also may be pretty typical for the APL, but against a heavily armored opponent, the decision changes. For your 20 Str guy w/Halberd above, the breakpoint is AC19. At AC20, he does more average damage per attack (or the same to 1 decimal place w/rage vs. AC20) without the power attack. The other thing to look at is whether a single hit will take the guy down. You alluded to this when you talked about just hitting the almost dead guy. A single attack w/o power attack is gonna do 8-17 damage, avg 12.5 (when it lands). That will likely take out a cleric, maybe a fighter, but probably not a barbarian (all first level). Facing the cleric...he's in your almost dead category when at full HP..just hit him w/o PowAtk. The fighter might need a bit of umph (rage or PowAtk). The barbarian needs to get whacked hard (rage and PowAtk)....or plan on hitting him twice w/o PowAtk. Hitting him once w/just PowAtk or just Rage give you a really good chance of leaving him standing with 1-3 hp. There are some other funny things that happen when you consider both the HP of the bad guy along with the AC. The optimum power attack jumps all over the place; a bad choice can double the length of combat. David
Necrochaos 06-06-06, 06:39 PM	After reading this post, I'll help guide it where I think would fit best for me. I agree with an earlier post that I would like to be a guy attacking in the first or second round. I'm not all about spelling up for subsequent rounds to do a lot of damage. I'd like to get into combat quickly. I did play the barbarian/Occult Slayer build until I died at the beginning of 3rd level. I played COR 604 Long Way for a Little Knowledge. I won't spoil it, but there was a very rough avoidable combat that killed my on a freak critical. It was a fun build to play though. Just looking for a little guidence.
Jay_Ibero_911 06-06-06, 11:18 PM	Persistent Spell is Restricted in LG, I am afraid. Whoa...how did I miss that?
boogahwoof 06-07-06, 11:48 AM	just a side note, i noticed in everyone of these builds noone ever considered the feat reckless rage (+6 to str and con for a -4 ac) just a thought
Lomiat 06-07-06, 01:44 PM	just a side note, i noticed in everyone of these builds noone ever considered the feat reckless rage (+6 to str and con for a -4 ac) just a thought Look back through my build. You'll stand corrected. At 12th level, the option was either to take Extra Rage and Reckless Rage or Improved Sunder and Combat Brute. I would take the Rage build, myself, but that's me. As a player, I'm hesitant to build a character designed to chop treasure in half.
zoinks69 06-07-06, 09:12 PM	Damage build is always good. I'd opt for a Dwarf as they have everything going for them in the fightin' department -- +2 Con, free martial and exotic proficiency with waraxe, darkvision, lots of other smaller goodies and most important -- +2 vs. spell and spell-like effects. Lots of ways to dish damage, but I think the key is to have lots of HP and repel those nasty Charm (and similar) effects. Also, unless you've got some special way to boost BAB quickly, stay the course of +1 BAB at every level so you can keep on power attacking. Str: 18 Dex: 10? (Could be as low as 8 if you REALLY don't care about AC, and you might not, but could be as high as 14) Con: 14 -> 16 or 16->18 Int: 8 Wis: 8 (if you have 8 dex and 18 con, bump to 10) Cha: 6 Level 1: Barbarian (for rage, movement, skill points vs. ftr), Power Attack Level 2: Fighter, Weapon Focus: Waraxe Level 3: Fighter, Extra Rage, Improved Toughness (if this is a fighter bonus feat, I know Extra Rage is not) Level 4: Fighter (the grin and bear it level) Level 5: Fighter, Cleave (some would suggest putting this earlier, you can swap it for Improved Toughness, personally I haven't gotten to use it as much as I would have liked) Level 6: Fighter (could be Ranger, but Ftr gives you another feat later), Reckless Rage Level 7: Exotic Weapon Master, (Uncanny Blow) Level 8: Fighter, Weapon Spec Level 9+ = Depends on where you want to go. Many of the PrC options are skills heavy, and you can spend some points in Int without giving up too much else. Pious Templar is a good option to help in the saves department, but even it is expensive to buy into skills-wise. If I had it to do over again, I'd have built toward Templar and sacrificed somewhere else. This build puts emphasis on "I have more HP than you". Charge the nearest bad guy and start swinging 2-handed (you can use Greatsword or Falchion for a little flavor, I'd have to crunch the numbers to see if it actually meant more damage per round as you'd likely crit more often, though it's x2 instead of x3 -- critting with a waraxe with this build usually means cutting the bad guy in half, no save for massive damage needed). AC will be trash, but your only real enemy is being critted (particularly after you've already taken a few hits, and this is only special in that your AC will be rather low with -4 from reckless rage, sometimes -2 from charge, no shield, etc) or getting spelled in such a way that you either stop swinging or turn on the party. I play a build similar to this (I picked up Blind-fight and that pushed Reckless Rage off the table for me) and have been walking around after Scythe crits (40ish) and still breathing after Huge Warhammer crits (60ish) at tables where the rest of the party started checking their ARs because even the other melees would have been dead and gone after taking the same damage. Keep a medic handy to soak up all the blood. At APL 8, you're looking at: To hit: +8 bab, +7 (str while reckless raging), +1 (from str bump item, could be +2), +1 (focus), +1 magic weapon = +18/13 or +20/15 (turns into +10/+5 or +12/7 if you go full power attack, though that depends on what you are swinging at), not including other buffs you might get from a haste, gmw, recitation, etc. Damage (assuming rage): 1d10 + 2 (spec) + 1 (magic weapon) + 16 (if full power attacking) + 16 (str bonus, could be 18) = 36-45 per swing, all on your own HP: with 14 -> 16 starting con - at level 8 you have 12 + (6x7) + (3x8) + 8 = 86 (110 while reckless raging) Naturally you won't be doing much outside combat, but damage builds typically don't. The party face-man will thank you when he's not a bloody smear :)
Cynric 06-07-06, 09:40 PM	The really handy thing about the titan fighting feat I mention in my build above is that it gives you your racial dodge bonus against giants against your designated dodge target. With combat brute etc. This equals even more damage.
zoinks69 06-07-06, 10:41 PM	The really handy thing about the titan fighting feat I mention in my build above is that it gives you your racial dodge bonus against giants against your designated dodge target. With combat brute etc. This equals even more damage. "AC guy" is another good option. I won't try to build one out here, but I've seen gnomes go the giant slayer route that had decent ac and could still dish it out. Blade Bravo could also be good (less damage, even more AC). The tradeoff is generally less HP (since your AC will be good, you'll get hit less). The trick is to not overdo it. If you have a crazy high AC but can't do much damage, the bad guys will leave you alone (Blade Bravo tries to get around this with Goad, though I'm a little suspicious of how well it actually works).
Cynric 06-08-06, 01:45 AM	I agree totally. Have one player in our semi regular group that has the unhittble tank. Monsters tend to ingnore him if they are smart. They realise they cannot hit him and he cannot bring them down quickly. So they go and beat up on the pc's who are hurting.
Necrochaos 06-08-06, 07:46 AM	Lomiat, does your Druid cast spells or buff before combat? It looks like a jump in and fight build, which is what I'm looking for. Just curious about the higher wisdom and what I should do with it.
Lomiat 06-08-06, 11:39 AM	Lomiat, does your Druid cast spells or buff before combat? It looks like a jump in and fight build, which is what I'm looking for. Just curious about the higher wisdom and what I should do with it. The build is designed to enter melee the first round of every combat (if possible). However, the character eventually casts 2 or 3 third-level spells, so, yeah, he can pre-buff himself. Of course, he's dumb as a brick, so if you had a good table, it would be fun to roleplay him as the simpleton wrasslin' with his animal companion and looking at the pretty flowers until someone reminded him to cast some spells. "Oh ya. Gog good at cast spells. Gog cast barkskin." If I played him, I'd have a mix of 10/min and 1/min per level buffs, ranged damage spells (he's not good against flyers otherwise) such as Produce Flame, and possibly a couple of area affect spells (entangle, briar web, etc.). I suppose that covers most druid spells, but the idea would be that if someone reminded him before the cave entrance that he ought to cast some buffs, he would. Or, being somewhat wise, he might stop and while everyone is trying to figure out why he's stopped, so is he, "Gog thinking. Gog's head hurt." Eventually, he figures out it would be a good idea to pre-buff. I also like the idea of the 6 CHA druid having trouble keeping his animal companion in line. "No, Woofie! No bite Gog!" Bites Gog anyway. "Gog bite back, stupid Woofie!" Gog bites Woofie. Etc.
jhorred 06-09-06, 03:06 AM	What's wrong with a straight fighter build?
kjenks 06-09-06, 05:56 AM	What's wrong with a straight fighter build? Fighters are all about feats, right? Is there anything better than getting more feats? Sometimes there is. Think about a Fighter build. If you take a one- or two-level dip into another fighting class with +1 BAB/level, all you really lose out on is progression toward your feat goals. But what do you gain? With a two-level dip into Ranger, you get extra skill points, Spot as a class skill, nice skill points and two bonus feats (Track and a weapon fighting style). Hit points are slightly less than Fighter. And you get a class spell list so you can use some wands. This is worthwhile for many Fighters. With a dip into Paladin, you get some nice class features which you may value more than your Fighter feats and Sense Motive as a class skill. And you get a class spell list so you can use some wands. This is also worthwhile for many Fighters. With a one-level dip into Barbarian, you get extra skill points, Listen as a class skill, fast movement and rage. This is probably worth more than your feat progression that you'd make with another Fighter level. With a two-level dip into Monk, you gain extra skill points, Spot and Tumble as class skills, three bonus feats (Improved Unarmed Strike and two more) and evasion (in light or no armor). But you do lose out on one BAB, which delays multiple attacks by one level and decreases your damage output, especially with Power Attack. With a two-level dip into Rogue, you gain lots of extra skill points, Spot and Tumble as class skills, sneak attack and evasion (in light or no armor). But you do lose out on one BAB. Occult Slayer and Exotic Weapon Master are two common prestige classes since they're relatively easy to get into and they grant abilities which are arguably better than Fighter feats. So there's nothing wrong with a straight Fighter build, but there are other options which give you more fighting power and more flexibility.
Swiftbrook 06-09-06, 02:49 PM	Example: The Half-Orc My only suggestion is to choose a Wood Elf. +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Con. +2 Str: You want to max out STR to max out damage +2 Dex: Helps you AC big time. -2 Int: It's a wash with the Half-Orc. -2 Con: can cover this with a few points. Fair tadeoff for +2 Dex. My 28 points: Str: 16 pts = 18 + 2 WoodElf = 20 with +5 bonus Dex: 4 pts = 12 + 2 WoodElf = 14 with + 2 bonus Con: 4 pts = 12 - 2 WoodElf = 10 with no penalty/no bonus Int: 4 pts = 12 - 2 WoodElf = 10 with no penalty/no bonus Wis: 0 pts = 8 with -1 penalty Chr: 0 pts = 8 with -1 penalty If you don't need skill points then maybe: Dex: 6 pts = 14 + 2 WoodElf = 16 with +3 bonus Int: 2 pts = 10 - 2 WoodElf = 8 with -1 penalty -Swiftbrook Edit: Bad addition. I adjusted the numbers
PaulH 06-09-06, 08:29 PM	Hi WHat about weapons? The Exotic Wpn Gt Falchion (from Bright Lands). 2H Wpn. D12 dam. 18-20*2 Threat. Certainly wouldn't dis a +6 attack, D12+7 dam, threat 18-20 * 2 at 1st level! ;) This is without rage. (+8 attack, D12+10 dam, threat 18*20*2) If you're a Scab-Land Half Orc, you also get Heat Endurance for free. When your base fort save is 6+ you can then take Improved Heat Endurance. (Fire Resist 5, lvl 3 Heat Protection for Bright Lands). Cheers Paul H
kjenks 06-09-06, 11:31 PM	Any time you use a feat to gain proficiency in an exotic weapon, that's one less feat you can use to bump up your attack or damage power. You have to decide if this trade is worthwhile. Often, it's not, and you're better off with a greatsword.
Iswald 06-10-06, 12:26 AM	On the other hand, it's always nice for flaver. With an exotic weapon, you can take exotic weapon master to find some useful ways to use your toy. Finding access is often a problem. If you stick with Sandstorm weapons and don't change regions, access won't be an issue.
jhorred 06-12-06, 12:20 AM	Fighters are all about feats, right? Is there anything better than getting more feats? Sometimes there is. Think about a Fighter build. If you take a one- or two-level dip into another fighting class with +1 BAB/level, all you really lose out on is progression toward your feat goals. But what do you gain? With a two-level dip into Ranger, you get extra skill points, Spot as a class skill, nice skill points and two bonus feats (Track and a weapon fighting style). Hit points are slightly less than Fighter. And you get a class spell list so you can use some wands. This is worthwhile for many Fighters. With a dip into Paladin, you get some nice class features which you may value more than your Fighter feats and Sense Motive as a class skill. And you get a class spell list so you can use some wands. This is also worthwhile for many Fighters. With a one-level dip into Barbarian, you get extra skill points, Listen as a class skill, fast movement and rage. This is probably worth more than your feat progression that you'd make with another Fighter level. With a two-level dip into Monk, you gain extra skill points, Spot and Tumble as class skills, three bonus feats (Improved Unarmed Strike and two more) and evasion (in light or no armor). But you do lose out on one BAB, which delays multiple attacks by one level and decreases your damage output, especially with Power Attack. With a two-level dip into Rogue, you gain lots of extra skill points, Spot and Tumble as class skills, sneak attack and evasion (in light or no armor). But you do lose out on one BAB. Occult Slayer and Exotic Weapon Master are two common prestige classes since they're relatively easy to get into and they grant abilities which are arguably better than Fighter feats. So there's nothing wrong with a straight Fighter build, but there are other options which give you more fighting power and more flexibility. One thing about several of the "dips" is that to get full benefit out of them you limit what armor you can use etc. Also with all those feats you can give your fighter the same versatilty as a few level dips. I have a straight fighter and I'm confused why I don't see very many of them. In fact I don't think I've seen any other straight fighters out there, expecially level 12.
Lomiat 06-12-06, 02:30 AM	One thing about several of the "dips" is that to get full benefit out of them you limit what armor you can use etc. Also with all those feats you can give your fighter the same versatilty as a few level dips. I have a straight fighter and I'm confused why I don't see very many of them. In fact I don't think I've seen any other straight fighters out there, expecially level 12. Straight Fighter's great for what it is--a versatile, disciplined warrior with many feats. But for damage it can't compete with other builds. Head to head, you look at a Ftr 12 vs. the raging Bbn/Drd/Exo/Ftr 12. A human Ftr 12 will likely start with 16 STR because it needs points for DEX and INT to use 2 of the better feat trees. That means (with 16 STR before gear), your 12th level fighter can have a base STR of 19, Weapon Focus and Greater Focus, Specialization and Greater Specialization and a BAB of 12. This gives a total bonus to hit of +18 before you factor in the weapon's enhancement and other magic gear. Base land speed will be 30 ft or, more likely 20 (in full plate). 1st round is often move X many feet and attack (or charge). With a Greatsword (other weapons could work), the Ftr does 2d6+10 (average 17) before factoring in magical damage. Power Attack adds 2 for 1. A multi-classed Bbn/Drd/Exo/Ftr 12 will be able to start with a higher strength (because it needs fewer feat trees), so will give this one a base STR of 18, bumped to 21 with level bumps, then to 27 while raging. He also has Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization and a BAB of 10. This leaves him at a total bonus to hit of +19 before magical enhancements (one higher than the fighter). He has a base land speed of 40 feet and can pounce. This means that where the fighter gets one attack in the "move and attack" scenario, this character can take a full attack. His damage is 1d10+21 (average 26.5) before magical enhancements, on average 9.5 higher to hit than the fighter, and still with a +1 to dump into PA before their hit bonuses equal, meaning effectively that the character hits for an average 11.5 damage more than the fighter. That's why you take level dips if you want to min-max your character's efficiency. Nonetheless, kudos to you for taking a character through straight fighter for 12 levels. There's still a lot of class in that move! I get drawn away by the math, myself, but I applaud those who can stick with one class that way.
thethe 06-12-06, 03:33 AM	Human BDF Str-16 Dex-14 Con-16 Wis-10 Int-8 Char-8 1 Cleave 1h Power Attack 1f Focus Greatclub 3 Extra Rage 2f Improved Bullrush 4f Weapon Spec Greatclub 6 Shocktrooper 6f Three Mountains Character goal 1:Make sure your in the front at all times. 2:Make your divine caster brambles your club. 3:Never forget you have Power Attack. Round one: Rage, Heedless Charge and power attack full. Round two: Ask where the hell your brambles is, and full attack the baddies(remember Three Mountains). Round three: Get Healing.
clik_ml 06-12-06, 04:23 AM	A more terse explanation as to why straight-up Ftr is viewed as inferior is that every additional odd level is *almost* as good as taking a dip in an NPC class. If you can't find something better than 1 feat from dipping 2 levels somewhere then you aren't even lookin. I'm not saying a straight-up fighter can't be done, or even that it shouldn't be done. I'm just saying that for any given role it aims for can be achieved much better through other means. Its only saving grace is that it can fill out 2 or 3 feat chains and do a passable job in each of them. Not a great job, but just good enough that he doesn't get fired on the spot. In the vein of melee damage dealers, I was working a major mutt last night... Wild or Wood Elf (pre racial mods) 14,14,14,14,12,8 1Rgr/1Barb/1Ftr/1Clr/1Ftr/2 Wildrunner/5 PiousTemplar/2Champ Corellon/1 Pious Templar I'm still hemming and hawing about whether it is even worth it to set fire to 3 feats and 2 levels in order to end cap at 14th level with a likely +9 extra damage to all melee attacks via Champ of Corellon stacking dex mod to damage. It seriously delays Imp Crit (which would play nicely off of Bless Weapon from PiousTemp), and Shock Trooper of course. I could potentially bump the Champ levels up much earlier, but that is annoying in how it affects the rest of the feats since I already have to set fire to two more feats just to get WildRunner and PiousTemplar. I'm planning on starting this build out next week probably. It stays competitive (i.e. atk/damage at least equal to the 12Ftr statted out by Lomiat) throughout its lifespan and gets interesting with a 60' base move by level 6. It would likely make sense to throw in a level of Exotic Weapon Master but I wanted something a bit more off the wall. I'm also trying with all my might to resist shocktrooper-pouncing via wildrunner. The temptation to deal around 50-60 average damage per hit with 3 attacks on the charge is tangible. That's by level 12 and certainly blows away the plain jane 12fighter. Tis a tactic for only once per fight, but fights won't last long if you open like that. I don't have to make any hard choices on the Champ of Corellon until 9th level, so I'll hopefully be settled in my mind by then. One sticky point I'm confused on. Does a one-handed weapon (like a longsword) give 2-1 power attack ratio if wielded in two hands? If not then that will seriously hinder the output for this build and make me shuffle up a few things here and there (and probably wind up knocking move down to 50', sigh). - Erik ML
Iswald 06-12-06, 08:59 AM	One sticky point I'm confused on. Does a one-handed weapon (like a longsword) give 2-1 power attack ratio if wielded in two hands? Yes, it will.
PaulH 06-12-06, 10:19 AM	Hi Don't forget the pure druids as damage-dealers. Not sure on access to animal companions from Bright Lands, but Dire Tortoise looks good. (pg 151 Sandstorm). With 11 levels of Druid, you're already immune to poison, though the BAB is only +8. Add 1 lvl from: Warshaper grants immunity to stunning & crits. (Therefore sneak as well). Beastmaster makes you animal companion harder. Master Many Forms allows shapeshift into humanoids, plus speech, etc. Erm. MUNCHKIN warning: If there's space, (I mean LOTS), then you as Dire Ape, armed with Ironwood Gt Falchion,, mounted on Dire Tortoise. Cast Animal Growth on yourself (now animal subtype), your 'pet', plus any other animals in the party. You: Huge Dire Ape. Str 30, Con 18. HP 111 + enhancements, etc. Your Gt Falchion does 4d6+15+enhancements. (Or 3d6+15+enhancements if it's standard - not Ironwood). Attack: 18/13 (Plus enhancements) Dire Tortioise: Gargantuan creature. Str 34, Con 29 HP 198 + enhancements, etc. AC 26 Attack +21 Dam 2d6+18+enhancements. Trample 8d6 (?)+18+etc. (Remember - Trample now affects 4x4 space)! This is without any other spells, enhancements etc. No Brambles, Bull's Strength (Animal growth grants size bonuses). I leave the feats to you. Cheers Paul H
Namarus 06-12-06, 12:00 PM	Level 1: Barbarian (for rage, movement, skill points vs. ftr), Power Attack Level 2: Fighter, Weapon Focus: Waraxe Level 3: Fighter, Extra Rage, Improved Toughness (if this is a fighter bonus feat, I know Extra Rage is not) Level 4: Fighter (the grin and bear it level) Level 5: Fighter, Cleave (some would suggest putting this earlier, you can swap it for Improved Toughness, personally I haven't gotten to use it as much as I would have liked) Level 6: Fighter (could be Ranger, but Ftr gives you another feat later), Reckless Rage Level 7: Exotic Weapon Master, (Uncanny Blow) Level 8: Fighter, Weapon Spec Level 9+ = Depends on where you want to go. Many of the PrC options are skills heavy, and you can spend some points in Int without giving up too much else. Pious Templar is a good option to help in the saves department, but even it is expensive to buy into skills-wise. If I had it to do over again, I'd have built toward Templar and sacrificed somewhere else. Personally I would try. 1. Ranger 2. Fighter 3. Barbarian 4. Fighter 5. Ranger 6. Deep Warden 7. Deep Warden 8. Exotic Weapon Master 9 + whatever .... This build allows you to dump your dex, and max out your con, combined with Reckless Rage, and the deep warden con to ac, your still a good damage monkey, but you also have a good AC.
PaulH 06-12-06, 12:40 PM	Hi There are other damage dealing mixes - Cleric of St Cuthbert, (Strength/Destruction domains). At 12th lvl his smite is +4 to hit, +12 damage. He can also add a +12 enhancement bonus to strength, cast Righteous Might (+4 size mod to Str, etc), and so on.... Cast RM, attack! Str +16 this round, extra +4 to hit, plus extra 12 damage. Basic Str 14 Clr, Wielding Gt Falchion: Attack+22, damage 3d6+27. Add magical enhancements to this. (Magic Wpn, lasts 12 hrs, adds +3 enhancement to wpn) You can also take Extra Smiting, so your second attack also gets all these bonuses. (Str Domain power lasts one round). Gt Falchion D12, threat 18-20x2. 12th lvl Cleric can take Improved Crit ar 12th! Cheers Paul H
PaulH 06-12-06, 12:46 PM	Hi Just a quickie - Druid 9, Warshaper 2, Fighter 1 Shift into Dire Ape. Str now 26 (Warshaper +4 str/+4 con) Cast Animal Growth on you & companion - charge! With Fighter lvl you have enough feats for Spirited Charge. With Wild feat "Pounce" you can make full attack on charge. Attack +22/+17 Dam (3d6+18+enhancements)*2. Cheers Paul H
Mommy was an Orc 06-12-06, 01:00 PM	Cast Animal Growth on you & companion - charge! Animal Growth doesn't work that way in LG...if you're a large creature via Wildshape, Animal Growth(or any other size changing spell) won't change your size. You can only become a creature of a size class one size larger than your normal form. You may take a form no smaller than fine sized. If a spell increases your size and another spell tries to increase your size again it fails (the rest of the spell works it just does not change your size). This size restriction does not apply to Wild Shape which has its own restrictions on size, however, the use of Wild Shape is still subject to size-stacking rule mentioned above.
PaulH 06-12-06, 06:55 PM	Hi OK, must have missed that. :( Still, Str 26 Dire Ape, (30 with Bulls Strength), wielding Gt Falchion is still pretty neat. Attack +21 Damage (3d6+15+enhancements)*2 (spirited charge) isn't something to sneeze at. Especially with a Keen Gt Falchion +1! (Threat now 15-20 x 2) Mind you, Animal Growth still works on your animal companion. Think Trample............ Cheers Paul H PS Prefer Warmages myself. Atr 12th lvl I'd open with Sudden Empowered Blade Barrier around them. Average 72 Damage/rnd. Save DC 21.
Howie23 06-12-06, 07:09 PM	Hi If there's space, (I mean LOTS), then you as Dire Ape, armed with Ironwood Gt Falchion,, mounted on Dire Tortoise. Cast Animal Growth on yourself (now animal subtype), your 'pet', plus any other animals in the party. Paul H Remember to take enough ranks in Ride to hit the DC20 Ride checks to control the mount in combat. :) David
PaulH 06-12-06, 07:22 PM	Remember to take enough ranks in Ride to hit the DC20 Ride checks to control the mount in combat. :) David Hi Should never forget the basics. ;) Cheers Paul H
jhorred 06-14-06, 10:44 PM	Human BDF Str-16 Dex-14 Con-16 Wis-10 Int-8 Char-8 1 Cleave 1h Power Attack 1f Focus Greatclub 3 Extra Rage 2f Improved Bullrush 4f Weapon Spec Greatclub 6 Shocktrooper 6f Three Mountains Character goal 1:Make sure your in the front at all times. 2:Make your divine caster brambles your club. 3:Never forget you have Power Attack. Round one: Rage, Heedless Charge and power attack full. Round two: Ask where the hell your brambles is, and full attack the baddies(remember Three Mountains). Round three: Get Healing. My Half-Orc Fighter: Started: 20 Str 10 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha Currently: 26 Str (2 lvl bumps, belt +4) 12 Dex (Gloves +2) 14 Con (1 lvl bump, +1 from Mod) 10 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha Greatsword To hit +22/+17/+12 damage 2d6+15 crit 17-20/x2. Javelin To Hit +22/+17/+12 damage 1d6+10 crit x2 (Can power attack too.) He has a 30 AC, 100 HP, and he speaks 12 languages. At Kublacon I did a 169 points in a single round with him without critting. Feats: (Don't remember exact order I took them, except for the last 3.) 1 Power Attack 2 Cleave 3 Wpn Fcs Greatsword 4 Wpn Spec Greatsword 5 Heavy Armor Optomization 6 Greater Heavy Armor Optimization 7 Imp Crit Greatsword 8 Brutal Throw 9 Power Throw 10 Quickdraw 11 Wpn Fcs Javelin 12 Wpn Spec Javelin He ran around for awhile in a chain shirt until I got sick of him spending so much time on the ground. He took alot of damage. Now most of the damage he takes is from spells. Granted that the ranger/barb/fighter/wildrunner/pioustemplar in our group does do a little more damage than my guy does but my armor class is almost double his.
Mommy was an Orc 06-15-06, 09:46 AM	Okay, let's take this character and tweak him. 1 level of Barbarian and 1 level of Exotic Weapon Master for 2 levels of Fighter. We'll get rid of WF/WS: Javelin and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization. We'll pick up Extra Rage and EWP: Bastard Sword and change all the Greatsword feats into Bastard Sword feats. Bastard To hit +24/+19/+14 damage 1d10+23 crit 17-20/x2. Average damage of 28.5 per hit instead of 22 per hit. If we equal out the to-hit chances via Power Attack, this makes 28.5 into 32.5. Javelin To Hit +23/+18/+13 damage 1d6+10 crit x2 (Can power attack too.) He has a 27 AC, 102 HP(126 HP when raging), and he speaks 12 languages. He also has an additional 8 skill points from 1st level to spend - say 4 on Listen and 4 on Intimidate to use these languages to better effect. So in essence, the character is now taking a penalty of 3 to AC in exchange for +3 Fort, -1 Reflex, +1 to Will Saves, +10.5 damage per swing, +1 damage from throwing a Javelin, +26 HP, +8 Skill points and +10 Move if you're not wearing Heavy Armor for some reason(such as being attacked while sleeping). Also, unless you're playing the high level game, at 15th, you can take another level of Barbarian for Uncanny Dodge or Ranger for an actual chance at Tracking - a level where Fighter doesn't get a feat... My Half-Orc Fighter: Currently: 26 Str (2 lvl bumps, belt +4) 12 Dex (Gloves +2) 14 Con (1 lvl bump, +1 from Mod) 10 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha Greatsword To hit +22/+17/+12 damage 2d6+15 crit 17-20/x2. Javelin To Hit +22/+17/+12 damage 1d6+10 crit x2 (Can power attack too.) He has a 30 AC, 100 HP, and he speaks 12 languages.
clik_ml 06-15-06, 10:35 AM	the ranger/barb/fighter/wildrunner/pioustemplar in our group does do a little more damage than my guy does but my armor class is almost double his. I'm happy to hear that for my sake since I'm planning on playing a build nearly identical to what his sounds like. Does that guy in your group make gratiutous use of Bless Weapon/Imp Crit? I'm wondering whether that is going to be a viable tactic at upper levels or just a waste of a round. I am rather confused on how the other guy has an AC anywhere in the neighborhood of 15. When raging he should be looking at around 18 AC sans-magic armor enhancements/and AC boosters If he opts for bracers of armor and gives some attention to AC boosting items then his AC should be able to go pal around in the 30's right with ya. I'm just musing rhetorically on the armor class, so don't worry I'm not asking for ya to explain someone else's build/character. I am curious on the Bless Weapon notion though.
jhorred 06-15-06, 04:30 PM	I'm happy to hear that for my sake since I'm planning on playing a build nearly identical to what his sounds like. Does that guy in your group make gratiutous use of Bless Weapon/Imp Crit? I'm wondering whether that is going to be a viable tactic at upper levels or just a waste of a round. I am rather confused on how the other guy has an AC anywhere in the neighborhood of 15. When raging he should be looking at around 18 AC sans-magic armor enhancements/and AC boosters If he opts for bracers of armor and gives some attention to AC boosting items then his AC should be able to go pal around in the 30's right with ya. I'm just musing rhetorically on the armor class, so don't worry I'm not asking for ya to explain someone else's build/character. I am curious on the Bless Weapon notion though. Actually saying almost double is exxagerating a bit, it's not uncommon for him to have an 18 AC. His starts off at 22 before rage and enlarging etc. I've spent alot of gold on AC where he's spent alot on holy swords. He had to get an amulet to get his Wis up high enough to cast spells, so it's a new thing to him. I don't remember what spells he uses. My buddy who plays the mutt has been encouraging me to take a lvl or two f barb from the beginning. I've been resistant to that idea, especially since I've taken to heavy armor. Mainly for the principal of the matter. I know there are things I could have done with him that would have made him stronger in some areas, but Ienjoy playing him the way he is. Back to the rebuild idea. 8 skill points is 4 more languages ;)
qmslager 06-28-06, 05:00 PM	Of course it is better to hit and do damage than to power attack and miss. But without knowing your miss chance, it is usually better to Power Attack at low amounts at APL than to not. A +1 to hit represents about a +10% to damage. A +2 to damage is usually more than that at low levels. At higher levels, the value of a +1 drops a bit, but so does the value of a +2 to damage. Example: this guy picks up a Halberd(to save cash for that Cold Iron MW Greatsword). He fights someone with a 16 AC. He's got a +6 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 10, or 55% of the time for 1d10+7 damage. Average damage per round = 6.875. Next round he switches to 1 point of Power Attack. He's got a +5 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 11, or 50% of the time for 1d10+9 damage. Average damage per round = 7.25. Next round, he turns on his rage, but uses no Power Attack. He's got a +8 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 8, or 65% of the time for 1d10+10 damage. Average damage per round = 10.075. Next round, he's still raging, but uses 1 point of Power Attack. He's got a +7 to hit, so would expect to hit on a 9, or 60% of the time for 1d10+12 damage. Average damage per round = 10.5. It of course depends on the opponent - better to hit an almost dead opponent, better to power attack one with DR, etc... You forgot to point out that a weapon focus vs power attack at 1-3 level would increase average damage up above your power attack curve making the power attack with just one point moot since the weapon focus is still better. Number crunches reg attck=6.875 power attack=7.25 weapon focus=7.5 with rage reg=10.075 power=10.5 focus=10.85 But the weapon focus only accounts for one weapon, which he chose originally, whereas power attack counts for every weapon. But if he intended to stay with one of two basic weapons then the focus is clearly (number crunching) the better choice at first level. The slager
Iswald 06-28-06, 10:37 PM	But the weapon focus only accounts for one weapon, which he chose originally, whereas power attack counts for every weapon. But if he intended to stay with one of two basic weapons then the focus is clearly (number crunching) the better choice at first level. The slager Weapon focus was required for Occult Slayer. Since the character has to have weapon focus and power attack is almost mandatory, the question was whether it was better to take weapon focus or power attack first.
qmslager 06-29-06, 12:47 PM	Weapon focus was required for Occult Slayer. Since the character has to have weapon focus and power attack is almost mandatory, the question was whether it was better to take weapon focus or power attack first. Uh yeah, that was fairly obvious, and I answered that question. But if he intended to stay with one of two basic weapons then the focus is clearly (number crunching) the better choice at first level I also answered the secondary question which is: "outside the number crunching what are the visceral benefits of the two?" As one person pointed out PA does not limit your choices at first level whereas WF does. Given that it does apply to multiple weapons at first level, if the Weapon he wanted to focus on was not available right away then it only makes sense to get PA. But if he had it available right away and was going to stick to that weapon then the number support although barely making weapon Focus primary and PA secondary. Or like I said But the weapon focus only accounts for one weapon, which he chose originally, whereas power attack counts for every weapon. But if he intended to stay with one of two basic weapons then the focus is clearly (number crunching) the better choice at first level. I don't mind clearing up confusion because I had simplified the statements to follow along the origninal thread. The Slager
GreatSiron 07-01-06, 02:57 AM	I have a 2nd lvl Dwarf Fighter with Power Attack, WF Dwarven Battleaxe, and Improved Int. I'd like to make him as damaging as possible, but I'm not sure how with his stats. Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 8 Barbarian is an obvoius multi-class for rage but the rest is unclear. Also, I don't know what feats to take. I've been reading this thread heavily, but most of the examples were min-maxed to begin with, and take prestige classes I've never heard of. (Deep Warden, Wildrunner, Occult Slayer).
JamesMaissen 07-01-06, 03:32 AM	I have a 2nd lvl Dwarf Fighter with Power Attack, WF Dwarven Battleaxe, and Improved Int. I'd like to make him as damaging as possible, but I'm not sure how with his stats. I've been reading this thread heavily, but most of the examples were min-maxed to begin with, and take prestige classes I've never heard of. (Deep Warden, Wildrunner, Occult Slayer). You will want to take a long look at Complete Warrior as it has several feats for you to consider as well as a PrC or two. With Improved Initiative you will want to strongly look at Occult Slayer as well as Exotic Weaponsmaster (though it will have table variation depending on where you play). You will also wish to look at the following feats: Extra Rage (CW), Reckless Rage (RS), Combat Brute (CW, tactial), Shock Trooper (CW, tactical), and others. Extra Rage gives you 2 more rages, so if you take this along with a level of Barbarian at 3rd you can rage 3 times a day which is normally all you ever need to do. Thus you can rage at the first sign of combat and not have to weigh 'is it worth it'? Reckless Rage is from Races of Stone (also something to look at) that increases the effects of your rage. You get +2 more STR, +2 more CON, but -2 more AC when you rage. This is a nice feat when you can afford it. Combat Brute and Shock Trooper are tactical feats (detailed after the normal feats in Complete Warrior) and are extensions of the Power Attack feat chain (they require Improved Sunder and Improved Bull Rush) and augment your ability to damage things. Together they are quite scary. Occult Slayer is a PrC that requires 7 ranks in crossclassed skills for you (half in Knowledge Arcana, the other half in Spellcraft) as well as +5BAB, Weapon Focus and Improved Initiative. It favors WILL saves (the bane of damage dealers everywhere) and specializes in killing casters. Perfect for a Dwarf. By the 5th (and last) level of the PrC you are immune to mind affecting spells. Exotic Weapon Master requires minimal ranks in craft Weaponry, a BAB +6 and WF in an exotic weapon (like the Dwarven War Axe). It gives a somewhat debatable ability that you can choose to augment your damage with the War Axe. Check with your local DMs and this might be worth taking a level for your character. -James