Lore of the Ur-flan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lore of the Ur-flan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lostpike
05-21-07, 02:37 PM What is this feat?
lostpike
05-21-07, 02:58 PM Found it!

+2 bonus to the DC of Necromancy spells with the ‘Evil’ subtype that
you cast.

Now the problem is see with this feat is every time you use a spell that fits this description you will get marked on your character sheet that you did and therefor soon lose your character....
pedr
05-21-07, 03:10 PM No. Every time you use the feat, your GM will warn you that casting a spell with the 'Evil' type is an evil act and ask if you really want to do it.

If you go ahead, at the end of the adventure the GM will come to a decision about whether your evil act(s) was/were significant, either due to quantity or 'quality' to be worth reporting to the Triad. If he decides that, then he'll write that on your AR and report it.

That is the only process, and requires a judgement call by the GM. Any other process is incorrect.
Timlagor
05-21-07, 07:14 PM I believe that the GM should inform you what they consider significant enough to merit noting on the AR in advance as well ...but I'm not sure they are obliged to.
pedr
05-21-07, 07:54 PM Yes, I'm not entirely sure about that.

I think that if it were a single thing which was just over the GM's personal 'threshold' of significance then you should probably warned that it was 'significantly evil'.

I'd perhaps be less reluctant to reveal ahead of time whether someone was coming close to a significant quantity of more minor evil acts: I don't think a character would have any way of judging that, whereas they could judge and weigh up the relative 'evilness' of a single act.

But here Timlagor's right: there probably be variation in the detail with which you're warned.
Timlagor
05-22-07, 07:54 AM The problem with not warning is that the character does have a good idea of how much evil they are doing.

In the case of the 28Int Wizard they're probably going to have a precise knowledge of when they will become Evil too. Ordinarily it might make sense to leave it to the player's judgement but GMs are just too variable -the warning isn't so that the player knows it's evil so much as to tell the player what the GM thinks.
Southernskies
05-22-07, 08:53 AM The only problem with warning the player about evil actions/spells etc, is that the game actually has a magic item spefically designed for it: Phylactery of Faithfulness
King Kashue
05-22-07, 03:19 PM The problem with not warning is that the character does have a good idea of how much evil they are doing.

In the case of the 28Int Wizard they're probably going to have a precise knowledge of when they will become Evil too.

I'd actually quite disagree about the 28 int Wizard (and I wonder why you chose such an example :P )

Intelligence is not what gives insight into moral behavior, not in real life, and not in the game. A 28 wisdom, now that would give such information.

Morality is not a function of learning and reasoning, unless you've got some way of knowing the "evil quotient" of each of your acts with which to do the math. Morality is a function of common sense, perception, intuition, and being aware of one's situation...

Who has more insight into moral behavior, the Boffin Professor or the wise but simple monk? Who are you going to consult with about good and evil, Patrick Moore or St. Francis of Assisi? :D
pedr
05-22-07, 03:32 PM Who has more insight into moral behavior, the Boffin Professor or the wise but simple monk? Who are you going to consult with about good and evil, Patrick Moore or St. Francis of Assisi? :DYou'd get a more entertaining answer from Patrick Moore. Non-Brits (and ex-pats) might have missed his latest pontification regarding television: today's television is rubbish for the following reason: there are too many women involved. He used to watch Doctor Who and Star Trek, apparently, then they went 'PC' and started having women commanders - so he stopped watching :P (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6634255.stm)
King Kashue
05-22-07, 03:42 PM You'd get a more entertaining answer from Patrick Moore. Non-Brits (and ex-pats) might have missed his latest pontification regarding television: today's television is rubbish for the following reason: there are too many women involved. He used to watch Doctor Who and Star Trek, apparently, then they went 'PC' and started having women commanders - so he stopped watching :P (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6634255.stm)

Hah...Old codgers are great.

Once you hit a certain age, you can say anything you please and people just chalk it up to "ah, old person"...:D

Oh, and don't forget (like anyone actually could), Patrick Moore plays the Xylophone (http://weebls-stuff.com/flash/patrick.swf) (I love this video)
bitznarf
05-22-07, 04:51 PM As [Evil] is a measureable and defineable force in D&D, I think that it just might be possible to apply logic and reasoning to it in some fashion, giving one an 'evil quotient' if you will. How you would go about that, I have no idea however.
King Kashue
05-22-07, 04:57 PM As [Evil] is a measureable and defineable force in D&D, I think that it just might be possible to apply logic and reasoning to it in some fashion, giving one an 'evil quotient' if you will. How you would go about that, I have no idea however.

I suppose if you had a high 20s Wisdom you could provide a relatively precise estimate of the "Qe", then if you had a high 20s Int you could then calculate your current standing :D

But we don't have a big enough point buy in LG...It would have to be a collaborative effort ;)

Though, I suppose that's what the adventuring party structure is all about :D
Timlagor
05-22-07, 06:43 PM I was thinking in terms of purely casting [Evil] spells. Since Spellcraft is Int-based it seemed appropriate.

Still the argument works fine for a 26-Wis cleric too ;)
..they're just rather less likely to be interested in shaving the edges.
Jamesps
05-22-07, 08:13 PM I suppose if you had a high 20s Wisdom you could provide a relatively precise estimate of the "Qe", then if you had a high 20s Int you could then calculate your current standing :D

But we don't have a big enough point buy in LG...It would have to be a collaborative effort ;)

Though, I suppose that's what the adventuring party structure is all about :D

Finally Mystic Theurges have a purpose. Moral advisor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lostpike 05-21-07, 02:37 PM	What is this feat?
lostpike 05-21-07, 02:58 PM	Found it! +2 bonus to the DC of Necromancy spells with the ‘Evil’ subtype that you cast. Now the problem is see with this feat is every time you use a spell that fits this description you will get marked on your character sheet that you did and therefor soon lose your character....
pedr 05-21-07, 03:10 PM	No. Every time you use the feat, your GM will warn you that casting a spell with the 'Evil' type is an evil act and ask if you really want to do it. If you go ahead, at the end of the adventure the GM will come to a decision about whether your evil act(s) was/were significant, either due to quantity or 'quality' to be worth reporting to the Triad. If he decides that, then he'll write that on your AR and report it. That is the only process, and requires a judgement call by the GM. Any other process is incorrect.
Timlagor 05-21-07, 07:14 PM	I believe that the GM should inform you what they consider significant enough to merit noting on the AR in advance as well ...but I'm not sure they are obliged to.
pedr 05-21-07, 07:54 PM	Yes, I'm not entirely sure about that. I think that if it were a single thing which was just over the GM's personal 'threshold' of significance then you should probably warned that it was 'significantly evil'. I'd perhaps be less reluctant to reveal ahead of time whether someone was coming close to a significant quantity of more minor evil acts: I don't think a character would have any way of judging that, whereas they could judge and weigh up the relative 'evilness' of a single act. But here Timlagor's right: there probably be variation in the detail with which you're warned.
Timlagor 05-22-07, 07:54 AM	The problem with not warning is that the character does have a good idea of how much evil they are doing. In the case of the 28Int Wizard they're probably going to have a precise knowledge of when they will become Evil too. Ordinarily it might make sense to leave it to the player's judgement but GMs are just too variable -the warning isn't so that the player knows it's evil so much as to tell the player what the GM thinks.
Southernskies 05-22-07, 08:53 AM	The only problem with warning the player about evil actions/spells etc, is that the game actually has a magic item spefically designed for it: Phylactery of Faithfulness
King Kashue 05-22-07, 03:19 PM	The problem with not warning is that the character does have a good idea of how much evil they are doing. In the case of the 28Int Wizard they're probably going to have a precise knowledge of when they will become Evil too. I'd actually quite disagree about the 28 int Wizard (and I wonder why you chose such an example :P ) Intelligence is not what gives insight into moral behavior, not in real life, and not in the game. A 28 wisdom, now that would give such information. Morality is not a function of learning and reasoning, unless you've got some way of knowing the "evil quotient" of each of your acts with which to do the math. Morality is a function of common sense, perception, intuition, and being aware of one's situation... Who has more insight into moral behavior, the Boffin Professor or the wise but simple monk? Who are you going to consult with about good and evil, Patrick Moore or St. Francis of Assisi? :D
pedr 05-22-07, 03:32 PM	Who has more insight into moral behavior, the Boffin Professor or the wise but simple monk? Who are you going to consult with about good and evil, Patrick Moore or St. Francis of Assisi? :DYou'd get a more entertaining answer from Patrick Moore. Non-Brits (and ex-pats) might have missed his latest pontification regarding television: today's television is rubbish for the following reason: there are too many women involved. He used to watch Doctor Who and Star Trek, apparently, then they went 'PC' and started having women commanders - so he stopped watching :P (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6634255.stm)
King Kashue 05-22-07, 03:42 PM	You'd get a more entertaining answer from Patrick Moore. Non-Brits (and ex-pats) might have missed his latest pontification regarding television: today's television is rubbish for the following reason: there are too many women involved. He used to watch Doctor Who and Star Trek, apparently, then they went 'PC' and started having women commanders - so he stopped watching :P (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6634255.stm) Hah...Old codgers are great. Once you hit a certain age, you can say anything you please and people just chalk it up to "ah, old person"...:D Oh, and don't forget (like anyone actually could), Patrick Moore plays the Xylophone (http://weebls-stuff.com/flash/patrick.swf) (I love this video)
bitznarf 05-22-07, 04:51 PM	As [Evil] is a measureable and defineable force in D&D, I think that it just might be possible to apply logic and reasoning to it in some fashion, giving one an 'evil quotient' if you will. How you would go about that, I have no idea however.
King Kashue 05-22-07, 04:57 PM	As [Evil] is a measureable and defineable force in D&D, I think that it just might be possible to apply logic and reasoning to it in some fashion, giving one an 'evil quotient' if you will. How you would go about that, I have no idea however. I suppose if you had a high 20s Wisdom you could provide a relatively precise estimate of the "Qe", then if you had a high 20s Int you could then calculate your current standing :D But we don't have a big enough point buy in LG...It would have to be a collaborative effort ;) Though, I suppose that's what the adventuring party structure is all about :D
Timlagor 05-22-07, 06:43 PM	I was thinking in terms of purely casting [Evil] spells. Since Spellcraft is Int-based it seemed appropriate. Still the argument works fine for a 26-Wis cleric too ;) ..they're just rather less likely to be interested in shaving the edges.
Jamesps 05-22-07, 08:13 PM	I suppose if you had a high 20s Wisdom you could provide a relatively precise estimate of the "Qe", then if you had a high 20s Int you could then calculate your current standing :D But we don't have a big enough point buy in LG...It would have to be a collaborative effort ;) Though, I suppose that's what the adventuring party structure is all about :D Finally Mystic Theurges have a purpose. Moral advisor.