Mage Armor vs. Shield [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mage Armor vs. Shield [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tengu
05-23-07, 06:53 PM Both Mage Armor and shield provide a +4 to AC but shield also protects against Magic Missile. So, why do most arcane casters seem to prefer Mage Armor?
Crazy Boro
05-23-07, 07:00 PM It lasts 1 hour per caster level instead of 1 minute per level.
Timlagor
05-23-07, 08:36 PM ..and spending a combat round casting a spell that only buffs yourself when you're planning to avoid being attacked anyway is a good way to lose friends.
Gelth
05-24-07, 02:05 PM ..and spending a combat round casting a spell that only buffs yourself when you're planning to avoid being attacked anyway is a good way to lose friends.

...lose them to death, in some cases. :)

--Penn, Ket Triad
solbergb
05-24-07, 02:43 PM Two words:

Combat actions.

Mage armor does not require a combat action, because it lasts so long it can reliably be kept up all day (or at least most of the day in lower levels)

Shield is so short duration that it usually requires a combat action to activate. That is an action you are not buffing the party or debuffing, zapping or controlling the enemy. Actions spent on self-buffs are wasted actions unless for some reason you're drawing all the enemy fire and you need it just to stay alive. In those situations, a +4 shield bonus won't usually save you (you need something more like dim door, mirror image, invisibility, obscuring mist - something that gets you all the way out of trouble, not just reduces the odds of getting hig slightly)

Note that blocking line of sight by any means will also reliably end a magic missile threat - and not just for you, for your entire team.
rutrow424
05-24-07, 02:55 PM Just to add to the others:

The only arcane casters that generally will use shield are spellsword-types (who already are wearing armor, but don't carry shields). They can often afford to spend one round casting a self-buff spell as the opposing forces close, though at higher levels they have numerous better options. In such circumstances, the party is relying on the other arcane caster(s) to cast any blasting spells and on the clerics/bards to cast party buffs.
solbergb
05-24-07, 03:09 PM shield is sometimes quickened on gish types, to avoid the buckler attack penalty. When used, it is usually activated with a quickened spell or cast just before kicking down the door.

By far the more common solution is a mithril buckler.
kjenks
05-24-07, 03:48 PM Or an animated shield.
copper_wyrmling
05-24-07, 04:45 PM Or an animated shield.

If you're not worried about ASF, sure.
kjenks
05-24-07, 04:53 PM Okay, then, an animated mithral buckler.
copper_wyrmling
05-24-07, 05:58 PM Okay, then, an animated mithral buckler.

Am I the only one who finds that a very cute mental image? ;)

But yes... my sorcerer does carry a scroll of shield (as a magic missile defence - I know obscuring mist works too, but that hampers your ability to zap them back). She's had it since L2. She's now L12, and has never used it.

Of course, she doesn't have Mage Armor anymore either. Too many other nice first-level spells ;)
solbergb
05-24-07, 06:15 PM My sorcerer sold her shield scroll after the following encounter.

Door opens, and a room full of low level sorcerers pepper the lead tank with magic missiles.

We are now in a situation where the only enemy offense is magic missiles.

My sorcerer can

A. do something to help kill the bad guys
B. cast shield on herself, when she isnt' even the target.

I chose option "A" - and sold my scroll on the same AR.

My arcane archer has used his scroll of shield once or twice, to boost AC in a "kick down door" situation. But he sort of counts as a "gish".
Tengu
05-25-07, 12:41 PM OK, so shield is not so useful... my problem is I am going for IotSFV and so I need 5 abjuration spells two of 4th level or higher. If shield is so useless, what 5 spells do you think I should take?
Lupo
05-25-07, 01:51 PM OK, so shield is not so useful... my problem is I am going for IotSFV and so I need 5 abjuration spells two of 4th level or higher. If shield is so useless, what 5 spells do you think I should take?

a initiate of the sevenfold veil of me [in a home campaign that uses mostly LG rules] has the following abjuration spells:

zero level: resistance

first level: ectoplasmic armor [NONC in LG], protection from evil, shield

second level: resist energy

third level: dispel magic

fourth level: resist energy mass [closed in LG] substitute with dispelling screen or globe of invulnerability, lesser

fifth level: reciprocal gyre

possible other spells: stone skin (4h level) or dimensional anchor (4th level)

so there is a quite good selection of spells, and i haven't listed all of them ;)

ciao

martin m.
copper_wyrmling
05-25-07, 09:24 PM My sorcerer sold her shield scroll after the following encounter.

Door opens, and a room full of low level sorcerers pepper the lead tank with magic missiles.

We are now in a situation where the only enemy offense is magic missiles.

My sorcerer can

A. do something to help kill the bad guys
B. cast shield on herself, when she isnt' even the target.

I chose option "A" - and sold my scroll on the same AR.

Selling your scroll of shield nets you a mighty 12.5gp: unless you're really desperate for cash, it's more a statement of principle than anything else ;) Az has scrolls of most of the (non-damage-dealing) L1 PHB spells, because they're very cheap, and you feel really stupid if a situation comes up when you'd like the spell and you don't have it on hand.
solbergb
05-29-07, 01:48 PM I used it to buy a detect magic scroll, which was actually useful until I got arcane sight :)
Reylance
05-29-07, 04:19 PM Both Mage Armor and Shield are useful spells. At low level, stick with the Mage Armor. You'll appreciate the duration as you pre-cast it. But I've also used Shield heavily with many characters.

Shield is, of course, a great spell for gish builds, as you'll often have a round of time to buff as you wait for the enemies to approach. But especially at mid-high levels, when you have a bunch of pearls, Shield is a no-opportunity-cost investment. You cast the spell before entering the warehouse/dungeon/cave, and if you don't need it? Just recall it with one of your dozen pearls. (Or you're a sorcerer, and never use all your slots.)
wooti
05-30-07, 07:33 PM My Gish will often cast shield. Not in combat but in situations where combat might occur. I figure if combat doesn't occur I haven't lost much (1 lv 1 spell which I can pearl back later if I want), the only use I get of mage armour is for monks and animals tagging along with the party.
jokem
06-03-07, 10:54 PM OK, so shield is not so useful... my problem is I am going for IotSFV and so I need 5 abjuration spells two of 4th level or higher. If shield is so useless, what 5 spells do you think I should take?

My question, can casting Sheild be inturrputed if called up from a ring
of spell storing? If not, or from a potion, it can be a great way to
immunize yourself from Magic Missile attacks so your other spells
cannot be inturrupted that way.
IMarvinTPA
06-03-07, 11:13 PM If you're not worried about ASF, sure.

Uh, a Mithral buckler has no ASF! Bucklers have 5% normally, but Mithral reduces that to 0%. Your Armor Check Penalty is also a measly 0, so your inexperience with shields is not a big problem either.

IMarv
Timlagor
06-03-07, 11:40 PM Not sure if a Ring of Spell Storing can be interupted... not sure if personal spells can be put in either.

You definitely can't have potions of personal spells ever ..not even when you see them on the AR.

If you're a Wizard you shoudl just stick Shield in your spellbook. If you're a Sorceror... you should be a Wizard.
jstorrie
06-04-07, 12:30 AM The other sticking point between Mage Armor and Shield that hasn't been mentioned is that you can cast Mage Armor on other party members, too. You, the arcanist, will be avoiding getting hit–but the party Monk or tricked-out Dex guy may not be...
Tengu
06-04-07, 06:11 PM How does the pearl of power work, I cast shield, then what? Do I get to use the effects of the spell and then recall it? Do I have to recall before it expires? Or do I recall it before it takes effect? I like the idea of shield with recall just not sure of the mechanics of it...
Timlagor
06-04-07, 06:38 PM You use a standard action at any time after you cast the spell but before you refresh the slot for a new day adn then the spel is castable again for future use.

NB: the Pearl must be the right level for the spell and each pearl is usable once per day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tengu 05-23-07, 06:53 PM	Both Mage Armor and shield provide a +4 to AC but shield also protects against Magic Missile. So, why do most arcane casters seem to prefer Mage Armor?
Crazy Boro 05-23-07, 07:00 PM	It lasts 1 hour per caster level instead of 1 minute per level.
Timlagor 05-23-07, 08:36 PM	..and spending a combat round casting a spell that only buffs yourself when you're planning to avoid being attacked anyway is a good way to lose friends.
Gelth 05-24-07, 02:05 PM	..and spending a combat round casting a spell that only buffs yourself when you're planning to avoid being attacked anyway is a good way to lose friends. ...lose them to death, in some cases. :) --Penn, Ket Triad
solbergb 05-24-07, 02:43 PM	Two words: Combat actions. Mage armor does not require a combat action, because it lasts so long it can reliably be kept up all day (or at least most of the day in lower levels) Shield is so short duration that it usually requires a combat action to activate. That is an action you are not buffing the party or debuffing, zapping or controlling the enemy. Actions spent on self-buffs are wasted actions unless for some reason you're drawing all the enemy fire and you need it just to stay alive. In those situations, a +4 shield bonus won't usually save you (you need something more like dim door, mirror image, invisibility, obscuring mist - something that gets you all the way out of trouble, not just reduces the odds of getting hig slightly) Note that blocking line of sight by any means will also reliably end a magic missile threat - and not just for you, for your entire team.
rutrow424 05-24-07, 02:55 PM	Just to add to the others: The only arcane casters that generally will use shield are spellsword-types (who already are wearing armor, but don't carry shields). They can often afford to spend one round casting a self-buff spell as the opposing forces close, though at higher levels they have numerous better options. In such circumstances, the party is relying on the other arcane caster(s) to cast any blasting spells and on the clerics/bards to cast party buffs.
solbergb 05-24-07, 03:09 PM	shield is sometimes quickened on gish types, to avoid the buckler attack penalty. When used, it is usually activated with a quickened spell or cast just before kicking down the door. By far the more common solution is a mithril buckler.
kjenks 05-24-07, 03:48 PM	Or an animated shield.
copper_wyrmling 05-24-07, 04:45 PM	Or an animated shield. If you're not worried about ASF, sure.
kjenks 05-24-07, 04:53 PM	Okay, then, an animated mithral buckler.
copper_wyrmling 05-24-07, 05:58 PM	Okay, then, an animated mithral buckler. Am I the only one who finds that a very cute mental image? ;) But yes... my sorcerer does carry a scroll of shield (as a magic missile defence - I know obscuring mist works too, but that hampers your ability to zap them back). She's had it since L2. She's now L12, and has never used it. Of course, she doesn't have Mage Armor anymore either. Too many other nice first-level spells ;)
solbergb 05-24-07, 06:15 PM	My sorcerer sold her shield scroll after the following encounter. Door opens, and a room full of low level sorcerers pepper the lead tank with magic missiles. We are now in a situation where the only enemy offense is magic missiles. My sorcerer can A. do something to help kill the bad guys B. cast shield on herself, when she isnt' even the target. I chose option "A" - and sold my scroll on the same AR. My arcane archer has used his scroll of shield once or twice, to boost AC in a "kick down door" situation. But he sort of counts as a "gish".
Tengu 05-25-07, 12:41 PM	OK, so shield is not so useful... my problem is I am going for IotSFV and so I need 5 abjuration spells two of 4th level or higher. If shield is so useless, what 5 spells do you think I should take?
Lupo 05-25-07, 01:51 PM	OK, so shield is not so useful... my problem is I am going for IotSFV and so I need 5 abjuration spells two of 4th level or higher. If shield is so useless, what 5 spells do you think I should take? a initiate of the sevenfold veil of me [in a home campaign that uses mostly LG rules] has the following abjuration spells: zero level: resistance first level: ectoplasmic armor [NONC in LG], protection from evil, shield second level: resist energy third level: dispel magic fourth level: resist energy mass [closed in LG] substitute with dispelling screen or globe of invulnerability, lesser fifth level: reciprocal gyre possible other spells: stone skin (4h level) or dimensional anchor (4th level) so there is a quite good selection of spells, and i haven't listed all of them ;) ciao martin m.
copper_wyrmling 05-25-07, 09:24 PM	My sorcerer sold her shield scroll after the following encounter. Door opens, and a room full of low level sorcerers pepper the lead tank with magic missiles. We are now in a situation where the only enemy offense is magic missiles. My sorcerer can A. do something to help kill the bad guys B. cast shield on herself, when she isnt' even the target. I chose option "A" - and sold my scroll on the same AR. Selling your scroll of shield nets you a mighty 12.5gp: unless you're really desperate for cash, it's more a statement of principle than anything else ;) Az has scrolls of most of the (non-damage-dealing) L1 PHB spells, because they're very cheap, and you feel really stupid if a situation comes up when you'd like the spell and you don't have it on hand.
solbergb 05-29-07, 01:48 PM	I used it to buy a detect magic scroll, which was actually useful until I got arcane sight :)
Reylance 05-29-07, 04:19 PM	Both Mage Armor and Shield are useful spells. At low level, stick with the Mage Armor. You'll appreciate the duration as you pre-cast it. But I've also used Shield heavily with many characters. Shield is, of course, a great spell for gish builds, as you'll often have a round of time to buff as you wait for the enemies to approach. But especially at mid-high levels, when you have a bunch of pearls, Shield is a no-opportunity-cost investment. You cast the spell before entering the warehouse/dungeon/cave, and if you don't need it? Just recall it with one of your dozen pearls. (Or you're a sorcerer, and never use all your slots.)
wooti 05-30-07, 07:33 PM	My Gish will often cast shield. Not in combat but in situations where combat might occur. I figure if combat doesn't occur I haven't lost much (1 lv 1 spell which I can pearl back later if I want), the only use I get of mage armour is for monks and animals tagging along with the party.
jokem 06-03-07, 10:54 PM	OK, so shield is not so useful... my problem is I am going for IotSFV and so I need 5 abjuration spells two of 4th level or higher. If shield is so useless, what 5 spells do you think I should take? My question, can casting Sheild be inturrputed if called up from a ring of spell storing? If not, or from a potion, it can be a great way to immunize yourself from Magic Missile attacks so your other spells cannot be inturrupted that way.
IMarvinTPA 06-03-07, 11:13 PM	If you're not worried about ASF, sure. Uh, a Mithral buckler has no ASF! Bucklers have 5% normally, but Mithral reduces that to 0%. Your Armor Check Penalty is also a measly 0, so your inexperience with shields is not a big problem either. IMarv
Timlagor 06-03-07, 11:40 PM	Not sure if a Ring of Spell Storing can be interupted... not sure if personal spells can be put in either. You definitely can't have potions of personal spells ever ..not even when you see them on the AR. If you're a Wizard you shoudl just stick Shield in your spellbook. If you're a Sorceror... you should be a Wizard.
jstorrie 06-04-07, 12:30 AM	The other sticking point between Mage Armor and Shield that hasn't been mentioned is that you can cast Mage Armor on other party members, too. You, the arcanist, will be avoiding getting hit–but the party Monk or tricked-out Dex guy may not be...
Tengu 06-04-07, 06:11 PM	How does the pearl of power work, I cast shield, then what? Do I get to use the effects of the spell and then recall it? Do I have to recall before it expires? Or do I recall it before it takes effect? I like the idea of shield with recall just not sure of the mechanics of it...
Timlagor 06-04-07, 06:38 PM	You use a standard action at any time after you cast the spell but before you refresh the slot for a new day adn then the spel is castable again for future use. NB: the Pearl must be the right level for the spell and each pearl is usable once per day.