Melee weapon ideas for an archery ranger? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Melee weapon ideas for an archery ranger? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jarnor23
12-03-05, 04:02 PM Hey there, in the Living Greyhawk campaign, my lvl 7 ranger just got a free +1 cold iron weapon of choice. The only problem is that I can't really figure out what to choose.

I'm a straight out archer so far with STR 12, DEX 20. While my first thought was that I'd take a rapier then do Weapon Finesse, I realized that I won't have another feat for two levels, and that frankly there's probably a better use for my feats. I was thinking of maybe a heavy damage weapon as creatures in LG constantly have DR that I'd need to overcome, but most of those would bring me right to the weight border as I am at 36.5 lbs and 43 is the border of light for me (which would ruin my AC if I go over). I suppose I could store some items on my riding dog companion, but at most I could move 6 lbs. of arrows that way.

My current feats are:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus -Longbow
Improved Rapid Shot

Any ideas?
ShinAkuma2
12-03-05, 04:10 PM I wouldn't worry about it being a high-damage weapon. It's cold iron, so you'll probably only be using it in emergencies against Fey to overcome DR. If you're a ranged attacker using a cold iron melee weapon against non-Fey, you're doing something wrong.

I'd say go with a lighter weapon, like a rapier, or something similar.

Does the access specify it's only good for one weapon? Perhaps it could be used for 20 +1 Cold Iron Arrows instead.
Jarnor23
12-03-05, 04:21 PM It can only be one non-exotic weapon, shield, or armor. Since I already have +2 mithril and don't use a shield, I figure I could use a decent melee weapon for when I'm stuck somewhere, or arrows aren't harming. Perhaps something that did slashing or bludgeoning damage to make up for when things have DR to piercing?
rutrow424
12-07-05, 12:11 PM I would suggest 2 options, both requiring transferring weight to either your dog or another party member:

1) Greatsword - at 8 lbs you would need to transfer 20 arrows to your dog to maintain light encumberance. This gets the high damage that you would be better off doing if stuck in melee.

2) Rapier and buckler - you would be .5 lbs over your weight limit, the buckler does not interfere with archery and adds to your AC if you resort to melee. It also leaves the finesse option open later on.

In either case, I would suggest getting a strength boost item ASAP - a belt or ioun stone would be best (you probably want/have gloves of DEX). The extra strength alleviates the weight issue, would help with melee damage (especially if you choose #1 above), and if you have not invested too much in your current bow (ie its +1 only, or if you can bear replacing a +2 bow) can help with ranged damage.
SgtHulka
12-07-05, 01:55 PM If he got a spiked guantlet, could he make Attacks of Opportunity even while armed with the bow?

How about armor spikes?
JamesMaissen
12-07-05, 02:50 PM If he got a spiked guantlet, could he make Attacks of Opportunity even while armed with the bow?

How about armor spikes?

Certainly. Assuming that the spiked gauntlet is not on the hand holding the bow but rather the one drawing arrows, notching, etc then it is free to make attacks when not currently firing the bow. Likewise armor spikes would always allow one to make an AOO should one be provoked in an adjacent square.

Just because one is holding a bow or has fired it the prior round doesn't prevent a person from making an AOO with another weapon.. you just don't threaten squares with the bow itself,

James
SteveMND
12-07-05, 03:18 PM Just for the record ('cause lord knows I'm not going to get into this discussion :D), while many judges interpret the rules as James does, expect significant table variation from judge to judge.
Sieylianna
12-07-05, 05:06 PM 1) Greatsword - at 8 lbs you would need to transfer 20 arrows to your dog to maintain light encumberance. This gets the high damage that you would be better off doing if stuck in melee.

As an archer, he should have a quiver of Ehlonna and transferring arrows isn't going to help his encumbrance.

My archer uses cold iron arrows with an magic bow.

If I got a free +1 cold iron weapon, I'd just go for a longsword or whatever is most common in your area. If we're fighting something which requires a cold iron weapon, I'll lend it to the front line fighter.

Ed
solbergb
12-07-05, 05:32 PM As an archer, he should have a quiver of Ehlonna and transferring arrows isn't going to help his encumbrance.

Ed

That assumes you have access to the Quiver.

Plus 60 arrows are totally inadequate for a mid-high level archer, who will fire 4-5 arrows every round. 20 arrows might get you through a fight, but when you start wanting enough of:

blunt arrows
slashing arrows
flight arrows
cold iron arrows
silver arrows
adamantine arrows
cheap normal arrows

to last a fight, it adds up quick. At the moment my archer's backpack is covered with 120 arrows worth of quivers...so I guess two Ehlonna quivers would get the job done, especially if I pressed the javelin slots into service for more arrows. The "between fight reloading" arrows currently live in the backpack, now Haversack since I got access to that at least.

I've gotten quiver on one character out of about 6, and my haversack ratio is similar. Bags of holding seem a bit more common, and are useful to store reloads.
Mommy was an Orc
12-07-05, 07:48 PM What about a Throwing Axe? Gives you an alternate weapon for throwing which does slashing damage instead of piercing. And it is finessable if that's ever an option for you(or the party Rogue)

Hey there, in the Living Greyhawk campaign, my lvl 7 ranger just got a free +1 cold iron weapon of choice. The only problem is that I can't really figure out what to choose.
Sieylianna
12-07-05, 10:54 PM That assumes you have access to the Quiver.

Plus 60 arrows are totally inadequate for a mid-high level archer, who will fire 4-5 arrows every round. 20 arrows might get you through a fight, but when you start wanting enough of:

I've gotten quiver on one character out of about 6, and my haversack ratio is similar. Bags of holding seem a bit more common, and are useful to store reloads.

He said he was 7th level, so he's firing three shots with rapid shot or four shots with haste per round. His PC is similar to mine and the only module where I went through more than 20 arrows was a core special module.

Of my eight characters, two own quivers of Ehlonna and three others have seen them, but not needed to purchase one. Only one has had access to a Hewards and she bought one.

Ed
Mommy was an Orc
12-07-05, 11:48 PM The problem isn't necessarily 20 arrows, the problem is getting into a combat where you need to use 3 rounds of a special type of arrow.

He said he was 7th level, so he's firing three shots with rapid shot or four shots with haste per round. His PC is similar to mine and the only module where I went through more than 20 arrows was a core special module.
Ed
redgamer
12-08-05, 12:56 AM Get a guisarme. Everyone should have a guisarme. Viva la guisarme. Seriously you are best served with a reach weapon and tripping allows you to hit touch AC and against two legged medium creatures you often have a better chance to trip than to hit full AC if you are not using you primary mean of fighting. Also get a 18 strength and a mightier bow. Yes its expensive but at you're level there is no other way to keep damage respectable.

That being said: A free weapon does not at all sound like something a LG mod gives. I strongly believe you have to pay for it. Not many mods give 4k gold over the cap wich is about the value of a +1 cold iron weapon. If it really is free I would get the most expensive one and immediately sell it and buy something more useful like a belt of strength.
SgtHulka
12-08-05, 09:05 AM That being said: A free weapon does not at all sound like something a LG mod gives. I strongly believe you have to pay for it. Not many mods give 4k gold over the cap wich is about the value of a +1 cold iron weapon. If it really is free I would get the most expensive one and immediately sell it and buy something more useful like a belt of strength.

My friend "won" at our Secrets of Tsojcanth table and received a cert for a free headband that granted him a saving throw bonus. Pehaps the OP "won" his item in a similar way.

Not a bad suggestion about selling it; I'm not sure what the rules on such an item is, though. It may not be sellable.
Iswald
12-08-05, 12:46 PM Hey there, in the Living Greyhawk campaign, my lvl 7 ranger just got a free +1 cold iron weapon of choice. The only problem is that I can't really figure out what to choose.

I'm a straight out archer so far with STR 12, DEX 20. While my first thought was that I'd take a rapier then do Weapon Finesse, I realized that I won't have another feat for two levels, and that frankly there's probably a better use for my feats.

My current feats are:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus -Longbow
Improved Rapid Shot

I would suggest continuing along the archer feat progression and not expend a feat just because you got a free item. What melee weapon do you use currently? Could you use a +1 cold iron version of it? I do not recommend a reach weapon as, if you are in the position to use one, you could probably just use your bow instead.

If your character had a high strength, a greatsword would be a good idea. But, with your low strength, you are better off with a rapier or even a dagger (which you could use while grappling).
Namarus
12-08-05, 01:17 PM Get a guisarme. Everyone should have a guisarme. Viva la guisarme. Seriously you are best served with a reach weapon and tripping allows you to hit touch AC and against two legged medium creatures you often have a better chance to trip than to hit full AC if you are not using you primary mean of fighting. Also get a 18 strength and a mightier bow. Yes its expensive but at you're level there is no other way to keep damage respectable.

That being said: A free weapon does not at all sound like something a LG mod gives. I strongly believe you have to pay for it. Not many mods give 4k gold over the cap wich is about the value of a +1 cold iron weapon. If it really is free I would get the most expensive one and immediately sell it and buy something more useful like a belt of strength.

100% agree, with getting an expensive weapon, and then selling it for cash.
solbergb
12-08-05, 10:09 PM He said he was 7th level, so he's firing three shots with rapid shot or four shots with haste per round. His PC is similar to mine and the only module where I went through more than 20 arrows was a core special module.

Ed

My character is also level 7

I've burned all 20 silver arrows that I carry in a mod that had two encounters that required them. I've burned about 30 blunt arrows in one mod, but that's partly cause I passed out 10 to another character.

Normally I'll burn 6-16 arrows a combat, maybe recover a couple of them. At the moment I carry 100 of each "cheap" kind of arrow and 50 of each "expensive" that I have access to (well 43 adamantium now, but hey, I and my blinded archer teammate didn't get grabbed/constricted by those animated objects cause I killed them too quick...)

The problem is that you can't predict what kind of ammo you'll need, and if you assume you might need 20 in a really bad fight, that's only 3 ammo types, four if you use javelin slots. Archers truly suck when they can't penetrate DR, especially at lower levels when they don't have an uber bow yet, so your ammo supply is important.

As for the reach weapon....I have trouble enough imagining where all of my bows, ammo, thrown weapons and splash weapons are stored, even with a haversack to carry everything else. I can't visualize where the reach weapon would live.

I'd go with a +1 cold iron trident. #1, it can be used underwater. #2 you can throw the thing as part of a full attack or in combo with a shield for a single attack and make use of your archery feats. #3 you can set it against a charge. #4 you can use with a buckler and/or without dropping your expensive bow on the ground. #5 you can lend it to the shield-using tin can or the raging power attacking barbarian and it works just fine for either of them (being a 1-handed weapon, most versitile).

Alternately get +1 cold iron armor spikes or spiked gauntlet, for use when you are grappled. Given that you have a heavy armor investment already though, and it isn't clear you can upgrade spikes onto existing armor, the gauntlet is probably better as a grapple defense.

Note that if you get an item for reduced price (or free) you can't sell it back for more than you paid for it. This is in the LGCS somewhere, probably in the FAQ.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jarnor23 12-03-05, 04:02 PM	Hey there, in the Living Greyhawk campaign, my lvl 7 ranger just got a free +1 cold iron weapon of choice. The only problem is that I can't really figure out what to choose. I'm a straight out archer so far with STR 12, DEX 20. While my first thought was that I'd take a rapier then do Weapon Finesse, I realized that I won't have another feat for two levels, and that frankly there's probably a better use for my feats. I was thinking of maybe a heavy damage weapon as creatures in LG constantly have DR that I'd need to overcome, but most of those would bring me right to the weight border as I am at 36.5 lbs and 43 is the border of light for me (which would ruin my AC if I go over). I suppose I could store some items on my riding dog companion, but at most I could move 6 lbs. of arrows that way. My current feats are: Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Weapon Focus -Longbow Improved Rapid Shot Any ideas?
ShinAkuma2 12-03-05, 04:10 PM	I wouldn't worry about it being a high-damage weapon. It's cold iron, so you'll probably only be using it in emergencies against Fey to overcome DR. If you're a ranged attacker using a cold iron melee weapon against non-Fey, you're doing something wrong. I'd say go with a lighter weapon, like a rapier, or something similar. Does the access specify it's only good for one weapon? Perhaps it could be used for 20 +1 Cold Iron Arrows instead.
Jarnor23 12-03-05, 04:21 PM	It can only be one non-exotic weapon, shield, or armor. Since I already have +2 mithril and don't use a shield, I figure I could use a decent melee weapon for when I'm stuck somewhere, or arrows aren't harming. Perhaps something that did slashing or bludgeoning damage to make up for when things have DR to piercing?
rutrow424 12-07-05, 12:11 PM	I would suggest 2 options, both requiring transferring weight to either your dog or another party member: 1) Greatsword - at 8 lbs you would need to transfer 20 arrows to your dog to maintain light encumberance. This gets the high damage that you would be better off doing if stuck in melee. 2) Rapier and buckler - you would be .5 lbs over your weight limit, the buckler does not interfere with archery and adds to your AC if you resort to melee. It also leaves the finesse option open later on. In either case, I would suggest getting a strength boost item ASAP - a belt or ioun stone would be best (you probably want/have gloves of DEX). The extra strength alleviates the weight issue, would help with melee damage (especially if you choose #1 above), and if you have not invested too much in your current bow (ie its +1 only, or if you can bear replacing a +2 bow) can help with ranged damage.
SgtHulka 12-07-05, 01:55 PM	If he got a spiked guantlet, could he make Attacks of Opportunity even while armed with the bow? How about armor spikes?
JamesMaissen 12-07-05, 02:50 PM	If he got a spiked guantlet, could he make Attacks of Opportunity even while armed with the bow? How about armor spikes? Certainly. Assuming that the spiked gauntlet is not on the hand holding the bow but rather the one drawing arrows, notching, etc then it is free to make attacks when not currently firing the bow. Likewise armor spikes would always allow one to make an AOO should one be provoked in an adjacent square. Just because one is holding a bow or has fired it the prior round doesn't prevent a person from making an AOO with another weapon.. you just don't threaten squares with the bow itself, James
SteveMND 12-07-05, 03:18 PM	Just for the record ('cause lord knows I'm not going to get into this discussion :D), while many judges interpret the rules as James does, expect significant table variation from judge to judge.
Sieylianna 12-07-05, 05:06 PM	1) Greatsword - at 8 lbs you would need to transfer 20 arrows to your dog to maintain light encumberance. This gets the high damage that you would be better off doing if stuck in melee. As an archer, he should have a quiver of Ehlonna and transferring arrows isn't going to help his encumbrance. My archer uses cold iron arrows with an magic bow. If I got a free +1 cold iron weapon, I'd just go for a longsword or whatever is most common in your area. If we're fighting something which requires a cold iron weapon, I'll lend it to the front line fighter. Ed
solbergb 12-07-05, 05:32 PM	As an archer, he should have a quiver of Ehlonna and transferring arrows isn't going to help his encumbrance. Ed That assumes you have access to the Quiver. Plus 60 arrows are totally inadequate for a mid-high level archer, who will fire 4-5 arrows every round. 20 arrows might get you through a fight, but when you start wanting enough of: blunt arrows slashing arrows flight arrows cold iron arrows silver arrows adamantine arrows cheap normal arrows to last a fight, it adds up quick. At the moment my archer's backpack is covered with 120 arrows worth of quivers...so I guess two Ehlonna quivers would get the job done, especially if I pressed the javelin slots into service for more arrows. The "between fight reloading" arrows currently live in the backpack, now Haversack since I got access to that at least. I've gotten quiver on one character out of about 6, and my haversack ratio is similar. Bags of holding seem a bit more common, and are useful to store reloads.
Mommy was an Orc 12-07-05, 07:48 PM	What about a Throwing Axe? Gives you an alternate weapon for throwing which does slashing damage instead of piercing. And it is finessable if that's ever an option for you(or the party Rogue) Hey there, in the Living Greyhawk campaign, my lvl 7 ranger just got a free +1 cold iron weapon of choice. The only problem is that I can't really figure out what to choose.
Sieylianna 12-07-05, 10:54 PM	That assumes you have access to the Quiver. Plus 60 arrows are totally inadequate for a mid-high level archer, who will fire 4-5 arrows every round. 20 arrows might get you through a fight, but when you start wanting enough of: I've gotten quiver on one character out of about 6, and my haversack ratio is similar. Bags of holding seem a bit more common, and are useful to store reloads. He said he was 7th level, so he's firing three shots with rapid shot or four shots with haste per round. His PC is similar to mine and the only module where I went through more than 20 arrows was a core special module. Of my eight characters, two own quivers of Ehlonna and three others have seen them, but not needed to purchase one. Only one has had access to a Hewards and she bought one. Ed
Mommy was an Orc 12-07-05, 11:48 PM	The problem isn't necessarily 20 arrows, the problem is getting into a combat where you need to use 3 rounds of a special type of arrow. He said he was 7th level, so he's firing three shots with rapid shot or four shots with haste per round. His PC is similar to mine and the only module where I went through more than 20 arrows was a core special module. Ed
redgamer 12-08-05, 12:56 AM	Get a guisarme. Everyone should have a guisarme. Viva la guisarme. Seriously you are best served with a reach weapon and tripping allows you to hit touch AC and against two legged medium creatures you often have a better chance to trip than to hit full AC if you are not using you primary mean of fighting. Also get a 18 strength and a mightier bow. Yes its expensive but at you're level there is no other way to keep damage respectable. That being said: A free weapon does not at all sound like something a LG mod gives. I strongly believe you have to pay for it. Not many mods give 4k gold over the cap wich is about the value of a +1 cold iron weapon. If it really is free I would get the most expensive one and immediately sell it and buy something more useful like a belt of strength.
SgtHulka 12-08-05, 09:05 AM	That being said: A free weapon does not at all sound like something a LG mod gives. I strongly believe you have to pay for it. Not many mods give 4k gold over the cap wich is about the value of a +1 cold iron weapon. If it really is free I would get the most expensive one and immediately sell it and buy something more useful like a belt of strength. My friend "won" at our Secrets of Tsojcanth table and received a cert for a free headband that granted him a saving throw bonus. Pehaps the OP "won" his item in a similar way. Not a bad suggestion about selling it; I'm not sure what the rules on such an item is, though. It may not be sellable.
Iswald 12-08-05, 12:46 PM	Hey there, in the Living Greyhawk campaign, my lvl 7 ranger just got a free +1 cold iron weapon of choice. The only problem is that I can't really figure out what to choose. I'm a straight out archer so far with STR 12, DEX 20. While my first thought was that I'd take a rapier then do Weapon Finesse, I realized that I won't have another feat for two levels, and that frankly there's probably a better use for my feats. My current feats are: Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Weapon Focus -Longbow Improved Rapid Shot I would suggest continuing along the archer feat progression and not expend a feat just because you got a free item. What melee weapon do you use currently? Could you use a +1 cold iron version of it? I do not recommend a reach weapon as, if you are in the position to use one, you could probably just use your bow instead. If your character had a high strength, a greatsword would be a good idea. But, with your low strength, you are better off with a rapier or even a dagger (which you could use while grappling).
Namarus 12-08-05, 01:17 PM	Get a guisarme. Everyone should have a guisarme. Viva la guisarme. Seriously you are best served with a reach weapon and tripping allows you to hit touch AC and against two legged medium creatures you often have a better chance to trip than to hit full AC if you are not using you primary mean of fighting. Also get a 18 strength and a mightier bow. Yes its expensive but at you're level there is no other way to keep damage respectable. That being said: A free weapon does not at all sound like something a LG mod gives. I strongly believe you have to pay for it. Not many mods give 4k gold over the cap wich is about the value of a +1 cold iron weapon. If it really is free I would get the most expensive one and immediately sell it and buy something more useful like a belt of strength. 100% agree, with getting an expensive weapon, and then selling it for cash.
solbergb 12-08-05, 10:09 PM	He said he was 7th level, so he's firing three shots with rapid shot or four shots with haste per round. His PC is similar to mine and the only module where I went through more than 20 arrows was a core special module. Ed My character is also level 7 I've burned all 20 silver arrows that I carry in a mod that had two encounters that required them. I've burned about 30 blunt arrows in one mod, but that's partly cause I passed out 10 to another character. Normally I'll burn 6-16 arrows a combat, maybe recover a couple of them. At the moment I carry 100 of each "cheap" kind of arrow and 50 of each "expensive" that I have access to (well 43 adamantium now, but hey, I and my blinded archer teammate didn't get grabbed/constricted by those animated objects cause I killed them too quick...) The problem is that you can't predict what kind of ammo you'll need, and if you assume you might need 20 in a really bad fight, that's only 3 ammo types, four if you use javelin slots. Archers truly suck when they can't penetrate DR, especially at lower levels when they don't have an uber bow yet, so your ammo supply is important. As for the reach weapon....I have trouble enough imagining where all of my bows, ammo, thrown weapons and splash weapons are stored, even with a haversack to carry everything else. I can't visualize where the reach weapon would live. I'd go with a +1 cold iron trident. #1, it can be used underwater. #2 you can throw the thing as part of a full attack or in combo with a shield for a single attack and make use of your archery feats. #3 you can set it against a charge. #4 you can use with a buckler and/or without dropping your expensive bow on the ground. #5 you can lend it to the shield-using tin can or the raging power attacking barbarian and it works just fine for either of them (being a 1-handed weapon, most versitile). Alternately get +1 cold iron armor spikes or spiked gauntlet, for use when you are grappled. Given that you have a heavy armor investment already though, and it isn't clear you can upgrade spikes onto existing armor, the gauntlet is probably better as a grapple defense. Note that if you get an item for reduced price (or free) you can't sell it back for more than you paid for it. This is in the LGCS somewhere, probably in the FAQ.