Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shieldhart91 08-08-06, 12:09 PM	Now, in my second AR I got the access for one full suit of mithral armor, one weapon, or shield. I also got the access to Dwarvencraft armor, shields, and weapons. In my fourth AR, I received access for another set of Mithral armor or a shield. In my fifth game, I found a Mithral Chain shirt in the game- bought that. Never used the access for Mithral or Dwarvencraft. Now, can I use this access at any time I wish? I've been wanting to replace my Mithral Chain Shirt for Mithral Full-Plate. Despite from the 10,500 GP cost...can I still get it? I also want to get my Heavy Warhorse Mithral armor- probably Mithral chain. Maybe I'll use up that Dwarvencraft for barding.
JohnduBois 08-08-06, 01:34 PM	I'm looking at the AR where you (probably) got the dwarvencraft and mithral favors, and the mithral favor is valid until used. Also, since the dwarvencraft favor is good forever when playing regional adventures, I recommend getting dwarvencraft mithral full plate. It's much less likely to go to pieces on you.
Shieldhart91 08-08-06, 02:44 PM	How often do enemies try to sunder your armor at higher APLS?
JohnduBois 08-08-06, 03:18 PM	It's not about the sundering (and for the record, worn armor can't be sundered). It's about the automatic acid damage from some monsters and the natural 1 on saves. Here's the way I look at it. Dwarvencraft is insurance. I'd much rather pay the dwarves 300 gp and never need to use its benefits than lose a 11,500 set of +1 mithral full plate because I was too cheap to shell out an extra 2.6% when buying it. I especially feel this way since a significant number of high-level NPC wizards seem to be taking Energy Substitution [acid or sonic] lately (and heck, why shouldn't they? We do).
Japangirl 08-08-06, 03:19 PM	Not very often. Most mod writers understand that with the limited money and access in LG, sundering people's toys (armor and weapons) is a dirty dirty tactic. I'm one mod from 13, and I've DMed a little, and I don't think I've ever seen monsters whose main tactic is to sunder in a module. I've only ever seen one rust monster. Putting one's money into armor and weapons is a pretty good investment, and most likely it won't be destroyed. There are also rules in the LGCS (p. 45) for getting armor repaired after it has been sundered, if that should ever happen. Repairing Destroyed Magic Items Permanent magic items that are destroyed as a result of in-game effects may be repaired, provided that all physical pieces of the item are retrieved. There are some specific rules that must be followed in order to repair a destroyed magic item. • The only items that can be repaired in such a manner are magical armor, magical weapons, rings, and wondrous items. • Repairs can only be done after the adventure in which the item was destroyed, and up to three adventures later for the owner of the item – after that time, the item is permanently lost. • Use the rules under the various craft feats (Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Forge Ring) to determine cost in both gold and XP (it is half of the item’s creation cost in both instances). The time unit cost to repair a destroyed item is equal to one-half the normal creation time of the item, rounded up to the nearest time unit. • Characters may only repair items that they could normally create using one of the aforementioned feats. Characters may repair another character’s item, as long as the character conducting the repairs pays the XP and time unit cost (either the owner or the repairer may pay the gold cost, but only those two characters may do so). • In addition to PCs repairing magic items, NPCs may also repair items, subject to the guidelines listed above, but with the following additions: o The adventure must have taken place in a town with a caster of a high enough level to repair the item (use Table 6-2 to determine, unless the adventure specifically states otherwise). o The PC pays the half the item’s market value (not creation cost) for the repair. o Items must be repaired after the adventure in which the item was destroyed, and up to three adventures afterward, but special favors may extend this period.
Shieldhart91 08-08-06, 03:32 PM	Acid damage does damage to your armor? Really, the only reason I do want the Mithral armor is because I don't want that high of an AC penalty to my Ride checks. I'll be taking my first level of Cavalier at Level 9, and up until Level 16 when the character is retired. Penalty for Full-Plate normally is what, -6 or -8?
JohnduBois 08-08-06, 03:36 PM	There are some monsters that specifically deal damage to your armor. I learned this the hard way in a retired Furyondy mod - I lost a set of mithral armor that I wouldn't have lost had it been dwarvencraft (although that character doesn't have access).
JohnduBois 08-08-06, 03:46 PM	Acid damage does damage to your armor? Really, the only reason I do want the Mithral armor is because I don't want that high of an AC penalty to my Ride checks. I'll be taking my first level of Cavalier at Level 9, and up until Level 16 when the character is retired. Penalty for Full-Plate normally is what, -6 or -8? Oh yeah... you definately want mithral full plate; it effective increases you Ride skill by +4 when compared to masterwork full plate (armor check penalty is reduced by 3 to -3 and you maximum Dex bonus increases by 2 to +3). Also, I'd say that if you're mounted, you're not really at risk from the armor-wrecking stuff I was talking about. Most of the nasty stuff that happens to armor happens at close range.
kenobi65 08-08-06, 03:53 PM	Acid damage does damage to your armor? Unless something's specifically targeting your armor, the only time it could come up is if you roll a natural 1 on a saving throw. Otherwise, it wouldn't affect your armor, or any of your other equipment. Some energy types affect objects more effectively than others (and, for the life of me, I can't find the list in the SRD at the moment). Really, the only reason I do want the Mithral armor is because I don't want that high of an AC penalty to my Ride checks. Unless you're not proficient with the armor, you don't suffer an armor check penalty to Ride.
kenobi65 08-08-06, 03:57 PM	Oh yeah... you definately want mithral full plate; it effective increases you Ride skill by +4 when compared to masterwork full plate (armor check penalty is reduced by 3 to -3 and you maximum Dex bonus increases by 2 to +3). . Bad John. 0 for 2 on this one. 1) Ride is not among the skills that Armor Check Penalty applies to, unless you are not proficient in using the armor in question (in the case of full plate, the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat): Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather hurts a character’s ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. 2) The "maximum Dex bonus" for armor only limits how much of your Dexterity bonus you can apply to your Armor Class; it does not limit other uses of your Dexterity bonus, such as the Ride skill (or, for that matter, ranged attacks). Maximum Dex Bonus: This number is the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC that this type of armor allows. Heavier armors limit mobility, reducing the wearer’s ability to dodge blows. This restriction doesn’t affect any other Dexterity-related abilities. So, assuming you have the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat, your Ride modifier will be exactly the same if you're wearing mithral full plate, plain old steel full plate, or doing the Lady Godiva thing :D.
Shieldhart91 08-08-06, 04:14 PM	I guess my first step is to cash back in the Mithral Shirt and get plain old Full-Plate until I can amount to 10,000+ GP. I only have AC 16, and being a fighter- that hurts. I'm finding myself taking a lot of Potion of Mage Armor's, just for AC 20...It helps a lot. Also, are there any benefits combat-wise for fighting atop your mount?
kenobi65 08-08-06, 04:19 PM	I guess my first step is to cash back in the Mithral Shirt and get plain old Full-Plate until I can amount to 10,000+ GP. I only have AC 16, and being a fighter- that hurts. I'm finding myself taking a lot of Potion of Mage Armor's, just for AC 20...It helps a lot. Boy, I feel like Rules Guy today. Shieldhart...hate to break it to you, but Mage Armor won't stack with your Mithral Shirt. They both provide an armor bonus to AC, and so only the better of the two bonuses will apply. Your mithral chain shirt provides a +4 armor bonus to AC, and Mage Armor also provides a +4 armor bonus to AC, so drinking a potion of Mage Armor doesn't change your AC at all.
Prochytes 08-08-06, 04:21 PM	I especially feel this way since a significant number of high-level NPC wizards seem to be taking Energy Substitution [acid or sonic] lately (and heck, why shouldn't they? We do). Umm... No one has had Energy Substitution [sonic] for some time. The revised version of Energy Substitution in Complete Arcane does not permit "sonic" as an option. I suspect that you are thinking either of the Born of the Three Thunders feat (which permits half sonic damage) or, more likely, the archmage Mastery of Elements High Arcana ability instead.
Lomiat 08-08-06, 04:24 PM	In my 3 years with LG, I've seen several monsters that specifically attempt to Sunder or destroy items, and I've seen more that certainly have Sunder among their options (any Blackguard). I wrote a Sundering NPC into an interactive and felt that it was dirty until, in a later interactive, I heard that the high-level PCs had to deal with mobs (plural) of rust monsters. THAT's just dirty. (Though it's why high-level PCs have spells like Wall of Force, Repulsion and Mass Fly.)
Prochytes 08-08-06, 04:32 PM	In my 3 years with LG, I've seen several monsters that specifically attempt to Sunder or destroy items, and I've seen more that certainly have Sunder among their options (any Blackguard). Yes, indeed. Fire, Frost, Hill, and Storm Giants all have it as well.
Shieldhart91 08-08-06, 04:39 PM	What about Potion of Shield? It has a tower-shield like effect that floats in front of you. I wield a greatsword, lance, and longbow...so?
kenobi65 08-08-06, 04:55 PM	What about Potion of Shield? Now *that* would stack with your armor, because Shield give a (surprise surprise) shield bonus to AC...which does stack with the armor bonus your chain shirt gives you (different types of bonuses almost always stack). Unfortunately, I don't think there's such a thing as a potion of Shield...at least, it's not listed as a standard potion in the SRD, which means that you can't buy it in LG, unless you have specific AR access to it. What you *could* buy are potions of Shield of Faith...a different spell, that provides a +2 deflection bonus to AC. But, the duration's not great (only 1 minute/level). I wield a greatsword, lance, and longbow...so? Nothing about Shield (or, for that matter, Shield of Faith) would prevent you from being able to wield those weapons...though that does tell me that the other quick and cheap way to boost your AC (an actual shield) won't work for you, unless you really want to change your focus weapons. Yeah, you need to get the best armor you can, as soon as you can. That mithral full plate's nice, but you won't be able to afford it for a very long time (esp. if you plan on spending any money on upgrading your weapons). I'd suggest getting masterwork full plate (1650gp) ASAP, and then enhancing it to +1 (another 1000gp, for a total armor bonus of +9). Since it sounds like you've got a Dex bonus, that'll put your AC at 20. You can also get, without AR access, an Amulet of Natural Armor +1, and a Ring of Protection +1, but those cost 2K each.
Madfox11 08-08-06, 06:07 PM	Woot, now I can quote a rule. From the SRD: " Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions." Hence potions of shield are illegal ;)
Shieldhart91 08-09-06, 05:11 AM	Well that foils a lot of ideas. I guess I will have to go with the +1 Full-Plate, at least until I can score the Mithral Full Plate. But...do I even -need- the Mithral full plate, I ask myself? First of all, it has a better AC bonus then the Mithral full plate...only real difference is the AC check penalty...and the Arcane Spell failure chance- which never affects me, really. So I might even just stick with the +1 Full-Plate.
paigeoliver 08-09-06, 07:01 AM	What is your dexterity on that character? If it is the 14 that I think it is I am wondering why you ever bought a mithral chain shirt to begin with. Mithral chain shirt is for elves/halflings with 20+ dex or arcane casters who wear armor anyway. I have personally encountered a construct (the kind with weapon breakage chance if you hit it apparently) with improved sunder that did nothing but sunder. At my table (APL 6, before repair rules were in effect), we lost about 15K or 20K worth of gear to it. I also played an interactive recently with tons of rust monsters at the lower APLs. It made me pretty nervous since I was sitting there holding an adamantine weapon at 3rd level.
Shieldhart91 08-09-06, 10:22 AM	I don't like the AC Penalty. I don't know why I really did it, but it was there- and I figured, why not? So I bought it. 1,100 GP didn't seem like that much cash then. For the past few games, I've been in the 100-500 GP range...Found out that +1 Dwarvencraft Full-Plate is 2,800 GP. Much less expensive... What about +1 Mithral Dwarvencraft Full-Plate? ;) It'd only be...11,800 GP.
paigeoliver 08-09-06, 01:21 PM	Even with no armor check penalty you are still going to fail most any rolls on those skills unless you are loaded down with ranks in them. Since every class that wears full plate gets 2 skill points per level (other than Marshall, which gets 4),, I am going to assume you AREN'T loaded down with ranks in those skills, thus you are probably gonna fail all those checks anyway. I'm guessing your character is a fighter (Paladin maybe?), in which case you would most likely be putting your ranks into ride and handle animal and not balance and jump.
Shieldhart91 08-09-06, 01:27 PM	Level 3 Fighter. I'm set on Diplomacy (for now)- it's 2 Ranks. I might want 2 more ranks in Knowlegde (Nobility & Royalty), for a total of 4 Ranks. But the rest of my skill points are, indeed, going for Ride and Handle Animal- since I am aiming for Cavalier. 20 more XP, and I fulfill the prequisites for Knights of the Hart- a Furyondy Meta-Org. I start out as a Squire...So after this Saturday, there's gonna be a new Squire in Furyondy :D
BlackNova169 08-09-06, 01:45 PM	Since we're on the topic of plate mail I just had a question. I have a lvl 2 pally, str 14, dex10, cha 16 and I was debating if I wanted to get plate mail. One thing I am worried about is to don plate it takes 4minute AND you need someone to help you put it on. Is this something I should worry about? Another concern for me is weight, and although I don't really know exactly how the encumberance works (I read it over & its a little confusing) it seems that with full plate, 2-3 weapons & a shield I might go over my weight limit. Then there's a question if I get a horse to carry all my stuff for me. I'm in Highfolk, mostly forest, so I wasn't going for a cavalier type pally, more diplomacy & undead smiting. Thanks for the help :)
kenobi65 08-09-06, 02:38 PM	Since we're on the topic of plate mail I just had a question. I have a lvl 2 pally, str 14, dex10, cha 16 and I was debating if I wanted to get plate mail. One thing I am worried about is to don plate it takes 4minute AND you need someone to help you put it on. Is this something I should worry about? I play a paladin in full plate, myself. The only time I've ever seen the issue come up is if you're attacked, or otherwise need to have an encounter, in the middle of the night. Since you probably don't want to sleep in that heavy armor (unless you blow a feat on Endurance), get a suit of light armor (i.e., chain shirt) to wear while sleeping, just so you're not stuck at AC 10 at night. We call that "chain jammies" :D. Another concern for me is weight, and although I don't really know exactly how the encumberance works (I read it over & its a little confusing) it seems that with full plate, 2-3 weapons & a shield I might go over my weight limit. Then there's a question if I get a horse to carry all my stuff for me. I'm in Highfolk, mostly forest, so I wasn't going for a cavalier type pally, more diplomacy & undead smiting. In any heavy armor, like full plate, you're at a "heavy load", anyway. The biggest implication for "heavy load" is that you can only run at x3 your speed, not x4. (Heavy load also imposes a -6 armor check penalty, and gives you a maximum Dex bonus to your AC of +1, if the armor you're wearing doesn't already impose penalties that big...but given the skills your focusing in, and your low Dex, you probably won't care too much.) With a 14 Str, your maximum for carrying a heavy load is 175 lbs. Full plate weighs 50 lbs., a heavy steel shield weighs 15 lbs., and most one-handed weapons weigh 5 lbs. or so. So, you'd still be able to carry a whole lot more before you're in danger of being above "heavy load". Given that you don't have a Dex bonus, and you're a front-line fighter, it makes sense for you to go for the highest AC you can get...and, in this case, that's gonna be full plate and a heavy shield.
BlackNova169 08-09-06, 03:04 PM	I play a paladin in full plate, myself. The only time I've ever seen the issue come up is if you're attacked, or otherwise need to have an encounter, in the middle of the night. Since you probably don't want to sleep in that heavy armor (unless you blow a feat on Endurance), get a suit of light armor (i.e., chain shirt) to wear while sleeping, just so you're not stuck at AC 10 at night. We call that "chain jammies" :D. Ha, great idea :D My VERY first adventure I was awoken by an evil presence at nite and ran off with only my sword & board to save a dominated party member. Convinced that the rest of the party was a threat he attacked with his longbow, targeting the pally in his scivies. His shot happened to be the only crit that night :doh: Luckily he rolled really low or else that would have been a short lived character. I think my paladin is going to be wearing 'chain jammies' from now on! And thank you for the info on encumberance, that clears it up for me. Hopefully I'll be touting a set of full plate by my next adventure. Cheers! (Oh, and any pally tips would be appreciated, the current threads are kind of lacking regarding feats, PrCs, etc)
kenobi65 08-09-06, 03:10 PM	BlackNova, you're welcome. Drop me an e-mail (you can get my e-mail addy by clicking on my screen name), rather than hijacking this thread any further, and we can talk paladinishness. :D
Shieldhart91 08-09-06, 06:21 PM	Chain shirt...hmmm...I should just keep my Mithral Shirt, then. Might as well get the full 1,100 GP use from it- right? Because I can't recall, and I don't have my PHB anymore on my person- is there no penalty for wearing light armor when you're sleeping?
kenobi65 08-09-06, 08:20 PM	Because I can't recall, and I don't have my PHB anymore on my person- is there no penalty for wearing light armor when you're sleeping? That's correct. Sleeping in medium or heavy armor leaves you fatigued the next day, unless you have the Endurance feat. You don't get fatigued if you sleep in light armor.
Shieldhart91 08-10-06, 07:35 AM	Guess I'm a one-upper! Mithral Chain Jammies :D Anyways, if it says I have regional access- and doesn't specify a certain amount, can I continue to buy that certain something? The item in question is Dwarvencraft...says I have regional access, but doesn't say "once" or anything- or even "Cross off when used". Can I get barding for my mount that's Dwarvencraft? Thanks.
Iswald 08-10-06, 09:20 AM	That's correct. Sleeping in medium or heavy armor leaves you fatigued the next day, unless you have the Endurance feat. You don't get fatigued if you sleep in light armor. Endurance doesn't help with heavy armor, just medium.
kenobi65 08-10-06, 10:22 AM	Endurance doesn't help with heavy armor, just medium. Ooops, I stand corrected.
Shieldhart91 08-11-06, 12:30 PM	Anyone...er...gonna answer my question?
kenobi65 08-11-06, 01:31 PM	Anyone...er...gonna answer my question? You mean dwarvencraft barding? Not sure why not, but that's not my area of expertise.
Shieldhart91 08-11-06, 02:05 PM	Just another quick question...I can buy Potion of Shield of Faith +2, Potion of Invisibility, and Oil of Magic Weapon without AR acess, correct?
Gyro_LC 08-11-06, 02:09 PM	Just another quick question...I can buy Potion of Shield of Faith +2, Potion of Invisibility, and Oil of Magic Weapon without AR acess, correct? You can buy potions worth up to 750 gp that are in the DMG without access.
kenobi65 08-11-06, 02:15 PM	You can buy potions worth up to 750 gp that are in the DMG without access. And, since all of the three that Shieldhart asked about qualify under those criteria, yup, you can.
Shieldhart91 08-11-06, 02:15 PM	Kudos.
paigeoliver 08-11-06, 08:31 PM	I have found barding is mostly a waste of money if you have mounted combat and a good ride check. After going from levels 1 to 7 with a character with a barded mount without ever having the barding help I stopped buying it for my other characters. Although I did buy some leather barding for the riding mules that one of my characters owns. Although I would still buy barding if you get yourself an unreplacable purchased animal, such as those Griffins I have seen some people tooling around with at conventions.
Shieldhart91 08-12-06, 09:42 AM	Then I don't think I'll be having Dwarvencraft Barding, but at least something. My Ride Check isn't anything incredible, and something like Studded Leather Barding would help.
Lord Yod 08-17-06, 07:00 PM	I have found barding is mostly a waste of money if you have mounted combat and a good ride check. After going from levels 1 to 7 with a character with a barded mount without ever having the barding help I stopped buying it for my other characters. Although I did buy some leather barding for the riding mules that one of my characters owns. Although I would still buy barding if you get yourself an unreplacable purchased animal, such as those Griffins I have seen some people tooling around with at conventions. Wouldn't the barding be a little extra insurance against flat-footed attacks though? Where barding really shines, though, is in animal companions. My buddy's elven hound companion has AC 24 or 25 without any buffs, at level 4. Note: I've heard of people having table variation regarding animal companions and armor; apparently some judges rule that a companion has the same oaths as a druid. Others rule that animals aren't proficient with armor. I haven't seen this personally, just heard about it.
Madfox11 08-18-06, 03:03 AM	I never heard about the oath thing, that is nowhere in the rules. What can be argued is the proficiency of animals with armor with creatures that can be bought war-trained or how it can be war-trained with tricks. Personally I am not in favor of automatic proficiency in armor for any animal but war-horses. I know that the local druids though do not favor dogs. Dogs can get a good AC, but they have only one attack. Apes, jaguars and later on bears are a much better choice. As for barding and horses, it all depends on the threat your horse poses and how many opponents you face. The Ride skill can only be used 1/round.
Japangirl 08-18-06, 05:33 PM	I would say that because armor proficiency is a feat that animals can take, your base animal companion/mount does not have armor proficiency. You can give it that feat as it gains hit dice though.
Lord Yod 08-18-06, 07:53 PM	I never heard about the oath thing, that is nowhere in the rules. Yeah I didn't find it anywhere either; I looked when I first heard about this coming up. What can be argued is the proficiency of animals with armor with creatures that can be bought war-trained or how it can be war-trained with tricks. Personally I am not in favor of automatic proficiency in armor for any animal but war-horses. I know that the local druids though do not favor dogs. Dogs can get a good AC, but they have only one attack. Apes, jaguars and later on bears are a much better choice. I think the intention of the rules is that animals can wear barding, and certain animals are proficient; it'd be awfully nice if the books said which are and which aren't. Where I play, the DM's tend to have no problem with proficiency if the animal is war-trained. If I was taking a druid PC to a big con, I'd bring several builds for the companion and ask each judge where they stand on it. If told that they need proficiency, either use the build that spends the feats to get it, or use a different companion.