Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shingshing 03-16-05, 09:35 AM	Can a gauntlet be given the ghost touch ability so that a monk can use his open hand attacks and gain this ability? For that matter, can a gauntlet be enhanced with any of the other weapon enhancements in the DMG? Can a gauntlet be made from special materials (silvered, cold iron)? shingshing
King Kashue 03-17-05, 12:15 AM	Can a gauntlet be given the ghost touch ability so that a monk can use his open hand attacks and gain this ability? For that matter, can a gauntlet be enhanced with any of the other weapon enhancements in the DMG? Can a gauntlet be made from special materials (silvered, cold iron)? shingshing A gauntlet can be enhanced, but only if it's masterwork (like all weapons)...And a gauntlet can be made out of any of the special materials (access required as usual for the material)... What you will find differing opinions on is whether monks can use gauntlets...The monk is not proficient with gauntlets, and it's not listed as a monk weapon...However, the gaunlet specifically says the attack remains an unarmed strike, which monks are fully proficient in... I've not read anything that makes the answer clear to me...I personally allow it when I judge, but I know plenty of folks who don't...The split seems to be about 65-35 allow-disallow, in my experience (though I don't have a monk char, so I don't have as much experience as I might otherwise)...
shingshing 03-21-05, 11:56 AM	I see how the argument can go both ways. Is it a simple weapon because it is listed on the simple weapon chart, or is it an unarmed strike because of the weapon description? The latter seems favored since an AOO would still be provoked in combat without the Improved Unarmed Combat feat. The rules are unclear as to whether a piece of armor constitutes wearing armor. The listed ACs for armor are for suits of armor and no AC benifit is listed for wearing just pieces (gauntlets or a helm for that matter). I'm sure other monks out there would like a ruling on this one.
The_Elder 03-21-05, 12:49 PM	I can shure think of one that would WEC AKA Shadowstar :D
Casebier 03-24-05, 03:44 PM	Of course, with the new alchemical capsules, you could strap a couple weapon capsules to your fists, and fill them with the Ghostblight stuff. Finding access to the stuff, however, would be the hard part. :-) As a judge myself, I would rule against monks using gauntlets. It's a weapon that monks aren't proficient in AND it's a piece of armor... Of course, now that I've read up on it (just now), I would say the rules are in a gray region and need to be clarified by an official. John Rogers, Jr
HypnoticMonk 03-28-05, 12:52 AM	In my never-so-humble opinion, I would allow them to use the gauntlets and allow them to enhance the unarmed strikes Except for the restriction that it couldn't be used in conjunction with flurry of blows ( unless, of course, they would be specifically designed to do so).
King Kashue 03-28-05, 01:10 AM	Except for the restriction that it couldn't be used in conjunction with flurry of blows ( unless, of course, they would be specifically designed to do so). :confused: Um...what does that mean?
HypnoticMonk 03-28-05, 01:40 AM	:confused: Um...what does that mean? Ok to clarify... If I was setting up the rules for magical gauntlet use by monks, it would read like this.. Regular magical gauntlets can be used to enhance the regular unarmed attacks ( as in a +2 flaming gauntlet would add +2 to the to hit roll and +2 HP plus flaming damage to the damage roll) but you couldnt take advantage of the extra chances to hit that a flurry of blows affords you due to the weight of the gauntlets slowing down the attacks. Now if said pair of gauntlets had some kind of extra magical enhancement(for example lighter ), then yes the monk wearing them would be able to do a flurry of blows while wearing them. My apologies for not being clearer earlier
King Kashue 03-28-05, 03:21 AM	Ok to clarify... If I was setting up the rules for magical gauntlet use by monks, it would read like this.. Regular magical gauntlets can be used to enhance the regular unarmed attacks ( as in a +2 flaming gauntlet would add +2 to the to hit roll and +2 HP plus flaming damage to the damage roll) but you couldnt take advantage of the extra chances to hit that a flurry of blows affords you due to the weight of the gauntlets slowing down the attacks. Now if said pair of gauntlets had some kind of extra magical enhancement(for example lighter ), then yes the monk wearing them would be able to do a flurry of blows while wearing them. My apologies for not being clearer earlier Well, that's roughly what I thought you meant...Except the enchantment you're describing ("lighter") or any equivalent doesn't exist in Living Greyhawk...
Casebier 03-28-05, 02:28 PM	Well, the enhancement exists, in a way, but not the rules for it. It's called Mithril. :) John Rogers, Jr
Thrudd 03-29-05, 02:42 PM	Well the enhancement can exist as a specia clarification as used in the descriptions of some mic. magic itemsl...... "Can be used with a monks flurry of blows" Monks have a specific listing of what they can and cannot use their flurry with. So even if gauntlets are simple and therefore can be used without penalty by a monk they are not on the special flurry list, just like daggers and clubs. (My Orc monk Flurries with his shiruken - Green Regent slot 1 day 1 - GM jaw drops as badies drop - :P ) Oh gauntlets/gloves go in the glove slot - not the armor slot Helms/hats/caps/crowns - go in the headgear slot So neither are armor per se as per the core rules as specified
Xeion 03-30-05, 06:56 AM	(My Orc monk Flurries with his shiruken - Green Regent slot 1 day 1 - GM jaw drops as badies drop - :P ) What were you doing that was so good?
shingshing 03-31-05, 12:48 PM	OK, one argument I am reading here is that a monk cannot flurry with gauntlets on. However, I have NEVER heard of anyone ruling that monks can't flurry while wearing other kinds of gauntlets (Ogre Power, Dexterity). I think the essential question is not whether monks can flurry with gauntlets on ,(the above argument implies yes), but whether or not weapon or armor enhancements can be added to just the gauntlets and if the adding of enhancements would follow the same creation rules and restrictions as any other piece of armor/weapon. Or, would it require the creation of a wonderous item. I don't think there is any rule preventing the creation of a wonderous item with some sort of weapon enhancement on it. An example would be a pair of gloves that give the ghost touch ability or etherialness. The Wonderous Item category is left deliberately wide open to allow for GM's to be creative. It would only require the approval of your local circle when a mod is created with the item in question.
gizmonster 03-31-05, 01:46 PM	Gloves and Gauntlets are different. Gauntlets are a weapon or piece of armor, gloves are clothing, even though they take the same slot. I would say a monk could flurry with gloves, but not gauntlets. I would say they can flurry with gloves of dexterity but not gautlets of ogre power. Gauntlets can be enhanced the way weapons or armor can but gloves cannot.
shingshing 03-31-05, 02:56 PM	Gloves and Gauntlets are different. Gauntlets are a weapon or piece of armor, gloves are clothing, even though they take the same slot. I would say a monk could flurry with gloves, but not gauntlets. I would say they can flurry with gloves of dexterity but not gautlets of ogre power. Gauntlets can be enhanced the way weapons or armor can but gloves cannot. Your statement is logical but I still have to say that I have never heard of anyone prohibiting a monk wearing Gauntlets of Ogre Power from flurrying. The argument has been made that since they are wonderous items they do not restrict a monk's special abilities. My assumtion is that it is because gauntlets are a piece of armor and not a suit of armor and therefore does not restrict movement as much.This begs the question, will a monk wearing a Helm of Brilliance or some other item that is armor related in name only, not be allowed to flurry and lose their monk bonus to AC. I'm sorry I used the example of gloves, it has only confused the issue with regards to gauntlets.
gizmonster 03-31-05, 05:00 PM	Your statement is logical but I still have to say that I have never heard of anyone prohibiting a monk wearing Gauntlets of Ogre Power from flurrying. The argument has been made that since they are wonderous items they do not restrict a monk's special abilities. My assumtion is that it is because gauntlets are a piece of armor and not a suit of armor and therefore does not restrict movement as much.This begs the question, will a monk wearing a Helm of Brilliance or some other item that is armor related in name only, not be allowed to flurry and lose their monk bonus to AC. I'm sorry I used the example of gloves, it has only confused the issue with regards to gauntlets. Someone should write to the Sage on this one. If it would get written up in the FAQ, that would make it official.
King Kashue 03-31-05, 06:18 PM	Unless I'm missing something on the technical rules, gaunlets are Weapons, Wonderous items are not, unless they are specified as such (e.g., Maul and Mattock of the Titans)... And yes, a writer could create a wonderous item that makes unarmed strikes ghost touch...However, that's outside the realm of what a player could go... A player can enchant gauntlets with the ghost touch ability...The question is how do those work for a monk...Because of the way gauntlets are described (as being otherwise the same as an unarmed-strike) it's unclear... A monk can flurry with an unarmed strike, can he flurry with gauntlets? Is a gauntlet "enough of a weapon" that monks are considered nonproficient? The language isn't clear enough...
ragecage79 04-01-05, 12:44 PM	A monk can flurry with gauntlets regardless , as with any weapon they are proficient with, b/c he/she flurries with their feet head, knees, etc. This means that gauntlets of ogre power or dex would work with a flurry, but the flurry would be at the normal monk unarmed damage and ki enhancements. As to the question about gauntlets with enhancements, I would argue no flurry. They are simple weapons that are treated like unarmed strikes. If you take the proficiency feat, then, at my tables, I would rule that you could use them w/o penalty and at your monk unarmed strike damage, just not in a flurry. I see this as an acceptable compromise, and I play a monk.
RWarehall 04-03-05, 09:49 PM	It should be noted that the 3.0 FAQ addressed at least some of this question but that entry did not carry over to 3.5... I'd still like to see an official 3.5 clarification, but for now, if I'm judging I'd go with the 3.0 FAQ as the wording has not changed from then.
Xeion 04-04-05, 02:02 AM	I have an easy answer. (I stupidly forgot about this.) Give the monk magic BOOTS. They can hit with them with flurry cause it is counted as an US.
solbergb 04-07-05, 12:43 AM	I have an easy answer. (I stupidly forgot about this.) Give the monk magic BOOTS. They can hit with them with flurry cause it is counted as an US. Same problem. You don't have a way to buy them in LG, and they aren't on the monk weapon list. Gaunts of ogre power always work because if a Judge gets snarky about it you just switch to your kness or elbows when flurrying. But enchanting gauntlets and trying to hit someone with them using flurry is going to get a "gauntlets are not on the monk weapon list" at most tables. It isn't cause they are armor. It is because they are weapons not on the list. You could get masterwork gauntlets and enchant them I think. (pay the extra 300gp). You then get lethal damage unarmed strike only, and can't flurry with them. The alchemical capsules will be a big boon to monks, since they have many attacks and they work best with big attack sequences. Assuming a monk is lucky enough to get access.