Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lomiat 05-05-07, 10:36 PM	I've heard other players mention that their regions offer multiple-round intros, and I'm thinking about writing one for the Shield Lands. Could someone who knows what the existing caps or guideliens might be please let me know? I'd like to be able to take a brand new character to second level in one adventure (possibly even before the climactic encounter), but even though I've spoken with my Triad, they don't yet know themselves.* Thanks in advance. *They do a great job; they're just new.
Britt 05-05-07, 11:02 PM	The main concern with multi-round intros is to make sure that the character doesn't play more rounds of intros than they should be able to. For example, you need to account for PCs playing two rounds of intros to get to 900xp and then play a three round intro to get another 1350xp, for a total of 2250xp off intros. I know that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it is an end-around on the rules. I recommend either sticking to one-round or three-round intros. For three-round, only allow brand new characters to play it.
Lomiat 05-05-07, 11:53 PM	Point taken, but wouldn't players running their PCs through 5 effective rounds of intro mods be shooting themselves in the feet since they don't gain any access in the 2 rounds where they'd normally have to play other mods? I take it, meanwhile, that you wouldn't recommend a 2-round intro mod because it would allow 1 prior round of intros, but not 2, creating a weird situation (instead of the other two options: a) 1st level? Fine. b) new characters only).
Mommy was an Orc 05-06-07, 04:30 PM	The main concern with multi-round intros is to make sure that the character doesn't play more rounds of intros than they should be able to. For example, you need to account for PCs playing two rounds of intros to get to 900xp and then play a three round intro to get another 1350xp, for a total of 2250xp off intros. I know that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it is an end-around on the rules. I recommend either sticking to one-round or three-round intros. For three-round, only allow brand new characters to play it. Is that actually being enforced? I've run a 3-round intro released this year and it had no such copy in it... I think the presence of 1st level characters in APL 2-4 mods is a much bigger issue than a nearly 2nd level characters play in intro mods - DMs tend to have a 'well, you're a 1st level character playing in an APL 2-4 mod, so I should try to make sure you survive' - I can see your point about not wanting characters to get to more than halfway to 3rd after an intro mod, but at the same time putting restrictions on the mods that 1st level characters can play encourages softballing.
The_Jester 05-06-07, 07:54 PM	The main concern with multi-round intros is to make sure that the character doesn't play more rounds of intros than they should be able to. For example, you need to account for PCs playing two rounds of intros to get to 900xp and then play a three round intro to get another 1350xp, for a total of 2250xp off intros. I know that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it is an end-around on the rules. I recommend either sticking to one-round or three-round intros. For three-round, only allow brand new characters to play it. Have to agree with Lomiat here. All the xp and gold of playing APL2 but with none of the access and a third of the favours. Sure the combats might be a tad easier but when you play that triple-rounder but you're a first-level character for two extra 'adventures' (ie anywhere from 4-8 combat encounters).
Britt 05-06-07, 08:11 PM	I never said anything about whether it was fair. All I said is that it circumvents the rule and should be avoided.
The_Jester 05-07-07, 09:33 AM	Curiously, my local triad said the opposite when they unveiled their three-round intro and advised players to get another intro or two under their belt so they could walk into this one with masterwork equipment and some healing potions. Of course, half of the Triad likes killing people and is known for letting intro mods have enemies with 2 levels of warrior, elite array, and toughness face off against the party and there's be a couple that dipped close to TPKs...
bitznarf 05-07-07, 10:19 AM	Curiously, my local triad said the opposite when they unveiled their three-round intro and advised players to get another intro or two under their belt so they could walk into this one with masterwork equipment and some healing potions. Of course, half of the Triad likes killing people and is known for letting intro mods have enemies with 2 levels of warrior, elite array, and toughness face off against the party and there's be a couple that dipped close to TPKs... Nah, thats just the Calgary folks. I hear our triad member from Vancouver is much more reasonable...
Mommy was an Orc 05-07-07, 10:57 AM	Curiously, my local triad said the opposite when they unveiled their three-round intro and advised players to get another intro or two under their belt so they could walk into this one with masterwork equipment and some healing potions. I don't think we have the same local triad and our 3-round intro(Keoland), as I noted, has no such language restricting it. Britt, are you wearing your 'I'm speaking for the entire Circle' Hat, or are you wearing your Iuz Metaregion Circle Hat here? Also, how does that affect ADPs, such as Scourge of the Howling Horde, where the mod is designed for 1st level characters, not as an Intro?
Britt 05-07-07, 11:00 AM	This isn't an official rule, and if it were, it would be in our internal administrative docs. I was just giving a recommendation as to how to make it most acceptable.
thorinXXX 05-07-07, 11:21 AM	This isn't an official rule, and if it were, it would be in our internal administrative docs. I was just giving a recommendation as to how to make it most acceptable. Or Show some retraint and we won't have multi-round intro's taken away.
trollbill 05-07-07, 02:10 PM	Well, all of that aside, here are some suggestions: Remember, even though the text on some of the templets may state Intros are APL 2, they are really APL1. A large portion of people playing intros will be newbs, especially to LG. Don't expect them to know all the tricks they need to know, so if the mod requires them to know a trick, make sure they can find the trick in the mod beforehand. Remember they likely won't have an opportunity to play something before hand so will have only basic starting equipment. If they need more than that in Part 2 of the mod, make sure you give them the opportunity to get it in Part 1. Intros should be designed to introduce 3 things: D&D, Living Greyhawk and your region. Make sure you have all three of those factored into your module, and assume your players are unfamiliar with all three.
Alma 05-08-07, 04:11 AM	Nah, thats just the Calgary folks. I hear our triad member from Vancouver is much more reasonable... Well John is known as the T.P.K. DM and The Original Pussey DM so it does balance out.
Reylance 05-08-07, 02:58 PM	The main concern with multi-round intros is to make sure that the character doesn't play more rounds of intros than they should be able to. For example, you need to account for PCs playing two rounds of intros to get to 900xp and then play a three round intro to get another 1350xp, for a total of 2250xp off intros. I know that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it is an end-around on the rules. I recommend either sticking to one-round or three-round intros. For three-round, only allow brand new characters to play it. I disagree that this would be an end-run around the rules. Aren't intro modules also written at APL 2? There shouldn't be much of a difference in challenge between an intro module and APL 2 of a regular module. As others have mentioned, intro modules don't have access and rarely have favors, so you don't gain as much, balancing out any lower risk. The Circle shouldn't anticipate each player gets to second level with intro modules. In fact, it's only the active players who you might suspect will do this. A new player might go to a con and start with an intro module, then play two low-level regionals. These two people shouldn't be significantly different from each other in character strength.
Madfox11 05-10-07, 03:47 AM	I disagree that this would be an end-run around the rules. Aren't intro modules also written at APL 2? There shouldn't be much of a difference in challenge between an intro module and APL 2 of a regular module. Into modules aim at 1st level characters and hence should be written for APL 1 regardless what the number in the adventure says. The adventure does include the same amount of ELs and gold pieces as an APL 2 adventure hence the use of that number. The Circle shouldn't anticipate each player gets to second level with intro modules. In fact, it's only the active players who you might suspect will do this. A new player might go to a con and start with an intro module, then play two low-level regionals. These two people shouldn't be significantly different from each other in character strength. Who say we do? Nobody has been talking about forbidding them. Britt merely points out that using introduction modules this way is bending the rules, and people should take care not to do so to a point that the Circle might be forced to act. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns
gomeztoo 05-10-07, 07:33 AM	I never said anything about whether it was fair. All I said is that it circumvents the rule and should be avoided. But wouldn't this also apply to people who are about to level playing a two-round Core, in which the first round would level them to a point there they would get xp penalties or be unable to play? Not to mention playing one of the multi-TU Adapted scenarios. I mean, same difference. If a PC starts a 2-round intro scenario he is a 1st level throughout the scenario, no matter how long it takes. I don't see the problem.
Lomiat 05-11-07, 03:01 PM	Has anyone played a multi-round intro mod that allows the PCs to level near the end -- before the final encounter? I'd like mine to give players that opportunity. I think it would work well not only for the adventure but also for the utility of an introductory module that serves not only to introduce new players (and their PCs) to the LG system, the Shield Lands region (geography, culture, NPC figures, and story arc), and the regional metaorgs -- but also to their first leveling-up process. Thanks.
Timlagor 05-12-07, 10:58 PM	Has anyone played a multi-round intro mod that allows the PCs to level near the end -- before the final encounter? I'd like mine to give players that opportunity. I think it would work well not only for the adventure but also for the utility of an introductory module that serves not only to introduce new players (and their PCs) to the LG system, the Shield Lands region (geography, culture, NPC figures, and story arc), and the regional metaorgs -- but also to their first leveling-up process. Thanks. You would need special dispensation to let people gain levels during a module -cf RHoD and the ?Key to the Grave (or was that the sequel?). You could however write it as two separate modules with 2 ARs and make the second one a normal module... but then you have the problem of taking up a Regional Slot and the pressure to make it cover more than APL2. Personally I don't see the issue with a first level character getting well into 2nd level in the course of an Intro -especially if they don't level up in the process.