Multiclass XP penalties [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multiclass XP penalties [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dufaeth
04-05-06, 08:37 PM Considering the nature of LG, is there any real disadvantage to taking multiclass penalties aside from trying one's patience?
paigeoliver
04-05-06, 10:58 PM The only possible disadvantage to it is if you play with a regular group of guys, they will end up pulling ahead of you. No real disadvantage besides that.
Tungar
04-06-06, 06:56 AM If i was cynical, I would say that it's more an advantage than a disadvantage ;)
Sieylianna
04-06-06, 07:30 AM Unless your local triad thinks you are taking an XP penalty to slow your advancement and banishes you to the high level campaign.

Ed
Tungar
04-06-06, 10:59 AM Unless your local triad thinks you are taking an XP penalty to slow your advancement and banishes you to the high level campaign.

??
I did not know. It has happened ? Or is it just a threat to avoid people to do it to much ?
Kheldren
04-06-06, 11:04 AM The LGCS states that if it is believed that people are losing XP (dieing, making items, casting xp spells) solely to keep playing a character then the character should be retired from play as if they had gained the xp and passed the level cap.

Think about it - I believe it is possible to make a character within cap that loses 100% of xp due to multiclassing. Play them for long enough and they will become incredibly rich and powerful due to magic items - hence they should retire like all the less powerful but higher level characters.
gog
04-06-06, 11:06 AM ??
I did not know. It has happened ? Or is it just a threat to avoid people to do it to much ?

Well I don't know if it has actually happened. But I would certainly do it if I thought somebody was using the XP penalty to not move up. Or if they were using item creation feats to do the same thing.

Lance W.
Pale Triad P.O.C.
kenobi65
04-06-06, 11:28 AM Think about it - I believe it is possible to make a character within cap that loses 100% of xp due to multiclassing.

It's absolutely possible. I've even read a treatise, written by a former triad member, on how to do just that.

Thing is, even with the additional gold / items, such a character is often pretty ineffectual in combat, due to poor BAB (from taking 1 level in all those non-fighter classes), and poor spells (lots of 1st levels, but that's it). Then again, they can often have pretty stellar saving throws. :D
Tungar
04-06-06, 11:48 AM Think about it - I believe it is possible to make a character within cap that loses 100% of xp due to multiclassing. Play them for long enough and they will become incredibly rich and powerful due to magic items - hence they should retire like all the less powerful but higher level characters.

Well, it could be very powerfull.
Ok, now, I know this rule, I won't go against it.
solbergb
04-06-06, 01:20 PM A little xp penalty can be helpful to staying "with" a companion that doesn't play as much as you do (eg, me and my wife - I have more stamina for long convention rounds, so I get an extra game from time to time).

Going crazy with multiclass xp penalties will make you rich but personally I'd find it a little frustrating. My primary characters tend to advance about 3-4 levels in an entire year, my extra chars gain 1-2 levels. Slowing that down much would remove any sense that they're "growing" to me, and to me that's part of the fun.
ranagrande
04-06-06, 05:24 PM When dealing with xp penalties, how much is too much? Is it only a problem if you stop gaining experience entirely? My newest character concept, which I will begin in an intro mod this weekend, will have a 60% or 80% (depending on whether I decide to go Wood Elf or High Elf) penalty from level 7 on. Will that be a problem?
paigeoliver
04-06-06, 11:55 PM Actually, it should really only be a problem is your character has played far more modules than a character normally can. If you never die and get full XP every time it should take you about 100 modules until retirement. Most people die a few times and have a few aborted modules, so that number should probably be more like 125.

So you might want to consider voluntary early retirement once that XP penalty character starts creeping up above 125 ARs in his stack.

Yes, XP penalty characters have more equipment than non-xp penalty characters, but that isn't really out of line since there are also a lot of characters wandering around out there that have died or been level drained 4 or more times. Those characters also tend to be similarly equipped as well.

My primary character has a 40 percent XP penalty, which will be a 60 percent penalty next level, but from there it will eventually creep back down to 20 percent.

Then there are also "craft wonderous item" characters who craft everything they use and have double equipment because of it.

So, I really don't see any of those as a game balance issue, since it is pretty hard to stack any of those combos together. You can't be a mad crafter with a huge XP penalty since you won't have the caster level or proper spells to make most stuff. XP penalty characters are less likely to die due to their better equipment, while mad crafters are less likely to die because they are usually "non-melee" characters.
Sieylianna
04-07-06, 07:43 AM When dealing with xp penalties, how much is too much? Is it only a problem if you stop gaining experience entirely? My newest character concept, which I will begin in an intro mod this weekend, will have a 60% or 80% (depending on whether I decide to go Wood Elf or High Elf) penalty from level 7 on. Will that be a problem?

The LGCS doesn't define this specifically. If you attract the attention of your triad, it doesn't matter whether it's 40 or 100%, because it's a judgement call. Personally, I would expect at PC which is 60% or more on a continuing basis to have problems at some point. YMMV.

Ed
King Kashue
04-09-06, 05:51 PM It's absolutely possible. I've even read a treatise, written by a former triad member, on how to do just that.

Thing is, even with the additional gold / items, such a character is often pretty ineffectual in combat, due to poor BAB (from taking 1 level in all those non-fighter classes), and poor spells (lots of 1st levels, but that's it). Then again, they can often have pretty stellar saving throws. :D

Naw...Fighter 3/Bar1/Rgr1/Swash1/Hexblade1/Rogue1...8th level, +7 BAB, 1d6 sneak attack, 100% xp penalty...
PaulH
04-09-06, 06:06 PM Hi

No xp penalty for above example if character is Dwarf, Half-Elf or Human.
(Disregard fighter levels if Dwarf, or highest levels for other 2).

Halflings, Half-Orcs & some Elves also get less xp penalties because of Favoured Classes.

Cheers
Paul H
King Kashue
04-09-06, 06:18 PM Hi

No xp penalty for above example if character is Dwarf, Half-Elf or Human.
(Disregard fighter levels if Dwarf, or highest levels for other 2).

Halflings, Half-Orcs & some Elves also get less xp penalties because of Favoured Classes.

Cheers
Paul H

I realize that...Did I specify race?

The above example would have to be an elf...Since half-orcs would pick up favored class off barbarian, and wood elves would off ranger, thus lowering the penalty to 80%...
PaulH
04-09-06, 06:25 PM Hi

LOL
No - you forgot to specify race. probably getting bit late, (23.30hrs here). ;)

Cheers
Paul H
Rillion
04-11-06, 11:28 PM Naw...Fighter 3/Bar1/Rgr1/Swash1/Hexblade1/Rogue1...8th level, +7 BAB, 1d6 sneak attack, 100% xp penalty...

Yeah but this design should immediately get removed for trying to avoid retirement. Obviously the only purpose of that design is to avoid xp since there is absolutely no reason to take 3 levels of fighter in this design. Now if you got to level 4 fighter before getting those other classes you could at least claim you wanted the Weapon Specialization. ;)
beyowulf
04-13-06, 11:39 AM Just a quick question. Anyone know in the SRD where it says when characters take XP penalty and for what. Its not under Classes or Races, AFAIK.
kenobi65
04-13-06, 12:32 PM Just a quick question. Anyone know in the SRD where it says when characters take XP penalty and for what. Its not under Classes or Races, AFAIK.

Interesting. I don't think it's in there -- you'll note that nothing that gives specifics on XP awards or advancement (from the PHB or DMG) was put into the SRD.
beyowulf
04-13-06, 12:49 PM Oh well, thanks. Looks like I'll have to go borrowing from my friends again.
redgamer
04-13-06, 12:50 PM The SRD purposely does not cover XP or leveling. That way you can understand the d20 rules and base other systems off of them but you have to buy the books to be able to level up your character (actually use the system).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dufaeth 04-05-06, 08:37 PM	Considering the nature of LG, is there any real disadvantage to taking multiclass penalties aside from trying one's patience?
paigeoliver 04-05-06, 10:58 PM	The only possible disadvantage to it is if you play with a regular group of guys, they will end up pulling ahead of you. No real disadvantage besides that.
Tungar 04-06-06, 06:56 AM	If i was cynical, I would say that it's more an advantage than a disadvantage ;)
Sieylianna 04-06-06, 07:30 AM	Unless your local triad thinks you are taking an XP penalty to slow your advancement and banishes you to the high level campaign. Ed
Tungar 04-06-06, 10:59 AM	Unless your local triad thinks you are taking an XP penalty to slow your advancement and banishes you to the high level campaign. ?? I did not know. It has happened ? Or is it just a threat to avoid people to do it to much ?
Kheldren 04-06-06, 11:04 AM	The LGCS states that if it is believed that people are losing XP (dieing, making items, casting xp spells) solely to keep playing a character then the character should be retired from play as if they had gained the xp and passed the level cap. Think about it - I believe it is possible to make a character within cap that loses 100% of xp due to multiclassing. Play them for long enough and they will become incredibly rich and powerful due to magic items - hence they should retire like all the less powerful but higher level characters.
gog 04-06-06, 11:06 AM	?? I did not know. It has happened ? Or is it just a threat to avoid people to do it to much ? Well I don't know if it has actually happened. But I would certainly do it if I thought somebody was using the XP penalty to not move up. Or if they were using item creation feats to do the same thing. Lance W. Pale Triad P.O.C.
kenobi65 04-06-06, 11:28 AM	Think about it - I believe it is possible to make a character within cap that loses 100% of xp due to multiclassing. It's absolutely possible. I've even read a treatise, written by a former triad member, on how to do just that. Thing is, even with the additional gold / items, such a character is often pretty ineffectual in combat, due to poor BAB (from taking 1 level in all those non-fighter classes), and poor spells (lots of 1st levels, but that's it). Then again, they can often have pretty stellar saving throws. :D
Tungar 04-06-06, 11:48 AM	Think about it - I believe it is possible to make a character within cap that loses 100% of xp due to multiclassing. Play them for long enough and they will become incredibly rich and powerful due to magic items - hence they should retire like all the less powerful but higher level characters. Well, it could be very powerfull. Ok, now, I know this rule, I won't go against it.
solbergb 04-06-06, 01:20 PM	A little xp penalty can be helpful to staying "with" a companion that doesn't play as much as you do (eg, me and my wife - I have more stamina for long convention rounds, so I get an extra game from time to time). Going crazy with multiclass xp penalties will make you rich but personally I'd find it a little frustrating. My primary characters tend to advance about 3-4 levels in an entire year, my extra chars gain 1-2 levels. Slowing that down much would remove any sense that they're "growing" to me, and to me that's part of the fun.
ranagrande 04-06-06, 05:24 PM	When dealing with xp penalties, how much is too much? Is it only a problem if you stop gaining experience entirely? My newest character concept, which I will begin in an intro mod this weekend, will have a 60% or 80% (depending on whether I decide to go Wood Elf or High Elf) penalty from level 7 on. Will that be a problem?
paigeoliver 04-06-06, 11:55 PM	Actually, it should really only be a problem is your character has played far more modules than a character normally can. If you never die and get full XP every time it should take you about 100 modules until retirement. Most people die a few times and have a few aborted modules, so that number should probably be more like 125. So you might want to consider voluntary early retirement once that XP penalty character starts creeping up above 125 ARs in his stack. Yes, XP penalty characters have more equipment than non-xp penalty characters, but that isn't really out of line since there are also a lot of characters wandering around out there that have died or been level drained 4 or more times. Those characters also tend to be similarly equipped as well. My primary character has a 40 percent XP penalty, which will be a 60 percent penalty next level, but from there it will eventually creep back down to 20 percent. Then there are also "craft wonderous item" characters who craft everything they use and have double equipment because of it. So, I really don't see any of those as a game balance issue, since it is pretty hard to stack any of those combos together. You can't be a mad crafter with a huge XP penalty since you won't have the caster level or proper spells to make most stuff. XP penalty characters are less likely to die due to their better equipment, while mad crafters are less likely to die because they are usually "non-melee" characters.
Sieylianna 04-07-06, 07:43 AM	When dealing with xp penalties, how much is too much? Is it only a problem if you stop gaining experience entirely? My newest character concept, which I will begin in an intro mod this weekend, will have a 60% or 80% (depending on whether I decide to go Wood Elf or High Elf) penalty from level 7 on. Will that be a problem? The LGCS doesn't define this specifically. If you attract the attention of your triad, it doesn't matter whether it's 40 or 100%, because it's a judgement call. Personally, I would expect at PC which is 60% or more on a continuing basis to have problems at some point. YMMV. Ed
King Kashue 04-09-06, 05:51 PM	It's absolutely possible. I've even read a treatise, written by a former triad member, on how to do just that. Thing is, even with the additional gold / items, such a character is often pretty ineffectual in combat, due to poor BAB (from taking 1 level in all those non-fighter classes), and poor spells (lots of 1st levels, but that's it). Then again, they can often have pretty stellar saving throws. :D Naw...Fighter 3/Bar1/Rgr1/Swash1/Hexblade1/Rogue1...8th level, +7 BAB, 1d6 sneak attack, 100% xp penalty...
PaulH 04-09-06, 06:06 PM	Hi No xp penalty for above example if character is Dwarf, Half-Elf or Human. (Disregard fighter levels if Dwarf, or highest levels for other 2). Halflings, Half-Orcs & some Elves also get less xp penalties because of Favoured Classes. Cheers Paul H
King Kashue 04-09-06, 06:18 PM	Hi No xp penalty for above example if character is Dwarf, Half-Elf or Human. (Disregard fighter levels if Dwarf, or highest levels for other 2). Halflings, Half-Orcs & some Elves also get less xp penalties because of Favoured Classes. Cheers Paul H I realize that...Did I specify race? The above example would have to be an elf...Since half-orcs would pick up favored class off barbarian, and wood elves would off ranger, thus lowering the penalty to 80%...
PaulH 04-09-06, 06:25 PM	Hi LOL No - you forgot to specify race. probably getting bit late, (23.30hrs here). ;) Cheers Paul H
Rillion 04-11-06, 11:28 PM	Naw...Fighter 3/Bar1/Rgr1/Swash1/Hexblade1/Rogue1...8th level, +7 BAB, 1d6 sneak attack, 100% xp penalty... Yeah but this design should immediately get removed for trying to avoid retirement. Obviously the only purpose of that design is to avoid xp since there is absolutely no reason to take 3 levels of fighter in this design. Now if you got to level 4 fighter before getting those other classes you could at least claim you wanted the Weapon Specialization. ;)
beyowulf 04-13-06, 11:39 AM	Just a quick question. Anyone know in the SRD where it says when characters take XP penalty and for what. Its not under Classes or Races, AFAIK.
kenobi65 04-13-06, 12:32 PM	Just a quick question. Anyone know in the SRD where it says when characters take XP penalty and for what. Its not under Classes or Races, AFAIK. Interesting. I don't think it's in there -- you'll note that nothing that gives specifics on XP awards or advancement (from the PHB or DMG) was put into the SRD.
beyowulf 04-13-06, 12:49 PM	Oh well, thanks. Looks like I'll have to go borrowing from my friends again.
redgamer 04-13-06, 12:50 PM	The SRD purposely does not cover XP or leveling. That way you can understand the d20 rules and base other systems off of them but you have to buy the books to be able to level up your character (actually use the system).