Need help for Marshall Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help for Marshall Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Necrochaos
05-08-06, 09:45 PM I'm looking for some direction with my Marshall Paladin. I just died in IUZ 6-02 Blue Scales, Red Secrets, which by the way is a very tough mods. Out of the 5 tables at the convention, there were 5 deaths, even at different APL's.

Anywho, here is my stats:

Human (Oriedian) Deity Pelor
Str 15, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16

Marshall 4/Paladin 1
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, WF Heavy Mace

I'm not sure where to go with this character.

I was looking at the following:

6: Paladin (True Believer)
7: Fighter 1
8: Fighter 2
9: Marshal 5
10: Marshal 6
11: Marshal 7
12-16 Pious Templar.

I'm not sure where to go with the rest of this. Maybe a couple more levels of Paladin and a few levels of Bard?

Any ideas would be very helpful.
Nerax
05-09-06, 12:44 AM Well I would say atleast take one more level of Paladin (total of 3 levels) so that you up two saves, up one BAB and get Divine health and Aura of Courage. I don't know what you would be missing out on as far a Marshal-wise as I don't own the Miniatures Handbook :( but I think the above would make up for it.
Sieylianna
05-09-06, 07:28 AM Do marshals have d6 for hit points (don't have books here)? Your feats indicate a front-line fighter, but I don't think you're going to have the hit points to survive.

Ed
clik_ml
05-09-06, 08:43 AM Marshals have d8 hit die.

So he has 49hp at level 5. Not horrible. Definitely a liability which should be shored up by a +2 amulet of Con.

The second level of Paladin is mandatory for this build. Whether you go further is largely dependent upon whatcha wanna do. 3rd level paladin nets you a couple immunities, which while nice aren't so good that they are considered required.

Knowing what auras you took from Marshal might help with aiming the direction you want for this character. It appears you are wanting to specialize in melee combat, but aren't really efficient at it.

I can't imagine you get to cleave much of anything with a heavy mace. Cleaving is usually best done by a big two-handed weapon that deals much damage per single hit and having reach doesn't hurt being able to cleave either. I'm betting you've gotten to cleave less than 10 times in 5 levels with this guy, which is a poor return on the investment of the feat. Oh well, can't do much about it now.

Things you can do to help your character last longer on the front line would be to take the Improved Toughness feat. If you have the DR 1/- Major aura that will help survivability too.

Bard won't work well for ya mostly because you'll have to change alignments back and forth getting an atonement for the Paladin abilities, even if you do pick up the Complete Adventurer feat Devoted Performer, since you have to become a bard and switch alignments before gaining the feat. Bard-Paladins go much more smoothly when you hit Bard prior to Paladin.

Your options are basically either to go hardcore on Marshal (i.e. all 8 levels of the class, I won't insult anyone by assuming the class is worth taking further than that), and dip in a prestige class or paladin/fighter levels, or to find a prestige class that fits what you want to do and get it asap.

Interesting options:
* Divine Crusader (pro:charisma based casting, full BAB, okay benefits/con: enter class at level 9 the earliest-greatly diminishing the casting)
* Pious Templar (pro:you seem to already like it, decent tank class/con: wisdom based casting)
* Favored Soul (pro:charisma caster/con: good luck finding anything you'd want to cast)
* Justicar (pro:lots of nice non-lethal abilities/con: enter at 8th level at fastest, and costs 2 feats and several skill points)

Good luck with your character,
Erik ML
Iswald
05-09-06, 10:34 AM Interesting options:
* Divine Crusader (pro:charisma based casting, full BAB, okay benefits/con: enter class at level 9 the earliest-greatly diminishing the casting)

* Pious Templar (pro:you seem to already like it, decent tank class/con: wisdom based casting)

Divine Crusader has 3/4 BAB. Pelor doesn't have the best domains for Divine Crusaders, though you could always take the healing domain. You never hear anyone complaining about too much healing. One level of Pious Templar for mettle, if you really must.
Mommy was an Orc
05-09-06, 11:54 AM I think the issue is feat/weapon choices for you - right now you're a tank with a relatively low amount of hit points, strength, and AC in exchange for better than average saves, some cool marshal abilities and one big swing. You've taken a WF: feat in something which isn't that useful unless you get Three Mountains from CW. And by getting Three Mountains, you get all the prereqs to Shock Trooper.

But those 2 feats and True Believer can only be taken at levels 6, 9, and 12.

So something like this:
6: Paladin 2: True Believer
7: Pious Templar 1
8: Pious Templar 2
9: Fighter 1: Improved Bullrush, Three Mountains(CW)
10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Heavy Mace
11: Pious Templar 4: ?
12: Fighter 2: Shock Trooper, ?
13: Marshal 5
14: Marshal 6
15: Marshal 7: ?
JamesMaissen
05-09-06, 03:22 PM So something like this:
6: Paladin 2: True Believer
7: Pious Templar 1
8: Pious Templar 2
9: Fighter 1: Improved Bullrush, Three Mountains(CW)
10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Heavy Mace
11: Pious Templar 4: ?
12: Fighter 2: Shock Trooper, ?
13: Marshal 5
14: Marshal 6
15: Marshal 7: ?

You can take Shock Trooper as a fighter bonus feat so snag it at 11 with the Templar bonus feat. At 12th you can take improved sunder and Combat Brute to round it out. 15th will probably be either extra smiting or improved toughness depending on how things have gone for you.

We can assume one of the marshal aura's will be adding to Bull rushes, trips and sunders.. might as well hit all of them.

Also you will want to increase your wisdom with something if possible to allow you to cast all those wonderful paladin spells that Templars get access to. Look out for the Ioun stone especially.

-James
clik_ml
05-09-06, 05:55 PM Divine Crusader has 3/4 BAB. Pelor doesn't have the best domains for Divine Crusaders, though you could always take the healing domain. You never hear anyone complaining about too much healing. One level of Pious Templar for mettle, if you really must.

Sorry bout the BAB, my eyes were a bit blurry there. Pelor has plenty of useful domains tho- Sun and especially Strength for this melee character. I can't really justify healing since you can already use a CLW wand and the heal spell is way too late to be worth it. But that's neither here nor there because...

The bigger problem with Divine Crusader of Pelor is that you have to be Neutral Good and that doesn't fit with Paladin at all.

Serves me right for suggesting stuff when I wind down after a 12 hour night shift. Darn, and I just finished a build for it to net Sun, Strength and Glory domains up to 7th level spells pre-retirement.

- Erik ML
Necrochaos
05-09-06, 08:49 PM Yeah, my aura's are the Motivate Dex aura (for the initiatve) and the MAster of Tactics to get more damage flanking. My major aura is the + to AC aura.
Iswald
05-09-06, 11:11 PM You can take Shock Trooper as a fighter bonus feat so snag it at 11 with the Templar bonus feat.

Pious Templar bonus feats have to come from the fighter bonus feat list.
JamesMaissen
05-10-06, 02:05 AM I had said in my post:

You can take Shock Trooper as a fighter bonus feat so snag it at 11 with the Templar bonus feat.

To which you even quoted and then replied:

Pious Templar bonus feats have to come from the fighter bonus feat list.

So what's the problem?? I mean it seems phrased as if there's a problem.

However, shock trooper *IS* an acceptable feat for fighter bonus feats, thus it's okay for Pious Templars (as you, yourself are saying).

Confused,

James
Iswald
05-10-06, 10:22 PM However, shock trooper *IS* an acceptable feat for fighter bonus feats, thus it's okay for Pious Templars (as you, yourself are saying).

Sorry, misread what you had written.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrochaos 05-08-06, 09:45 PM	I'm looking for some direction with my Marshall Paladin. I just died in IUZ 6-02 Blue Scales, Red Secrets, which by the way is a very tough mods. Out of the 5 tables at the convention, there were 5 deaths, even at different APL's. Anywho, here is my stats: Human (Oriedian) Deity Pelor Str 15, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16 Marshall 4/Paladin 1 Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, WF Heavy Mace I'm not sure where to go with this character. I was looking at the following: 6: Paladin (True Believer) 7: Fighter 1 8: Fighter 2 9: Marshal 5 10: Marshal 6 11: Marshal 7 12-16 Pious Templar. I'm not sure where to go with the rest of this. Maybe a couple more levels of Paladin and a few levels of Bard? Any ideas would be very helpful.
Nerax 05-09-06, 12:44 AM	Well I would say atleast take one more level of Paladin (total of 3 levels) so that you up two saves, up one BAB and get Divine health and Aura of Courage. I don't know what you would be missing out on as far a Marshal-wise as I don't own the Miniatures Handbook :( but I think the above would make up for it.
Sieylianna 05-09-06, 07:28 AM	Do marshals have d6 for hit points (don't have books here)? Your feats indicate a front-line fighter, but I don't think you're going to have the hit points to survive. Ed
clik_ml 05-09-06, 08:43 AM	Marshals have d8 hit die. So he has 49hp at level 5. Not horrible. Definitely a liability which should be shored up by a +2 amulet of Con. The second level of Paladin is mandatory for this build. Whether you go further is largely dependent upon whatcha wanna do. 3rd level paladin nets you a couple immunities, which while nice aren't so good that they are considered required. Knowing what auras you took from Marshal might help with aiming the direction you want for this character. It appears you are wanting to specialize in melee combat, but aren't really efficient at it. I can't imagine you get to cleave much of anything with a heavy mace. Cleaving is usually best done by a big two-handed weapon that deals much damage per single hit and having reach doesn't hurt being able to cleave either. I'm betting you've gotten to cleave less than 10 times in 5 levels with this guy, which is a poor return on the investment of the feat. Oh well, can't do much about it now. Things you can do to help your character last longer on the front line would be to take the Improved Toughness feat. If you have the DR 1/- Major aura that will help survivability too. Bard won't work well for ya mostly because you'll have to change alignments back and forth getting an atonement for the Paladin abilities, even if you do pick up the Complete Adventurer feat Devoted Performer, since you have to become a bard and switch alignments before gaining the feat. Bard-Paladins go much more smoothly when you hit Bard prior to Paladin. Your options are basically either to go hardcore on Marshal (i.e. all 8 levels of the class, I won't insult anyone by assuming the class is worth taking further than that), and dip in a prestige class or paladin/fighter levels, or to find a prestige class that fits what you want to do and get it asap. Interesting options: * Divine Crusader (pro:charisma based casting, full BAB, okay benefits/con: enter class at level 9 the earliest-greatly diminishing the casting) * Pious Templar (pro:you seem to already like it, decent tank class/con: wisdom based casting) * Favored Soul (pro:charisma caster/con: good luck finding anything you'd want to cast) * Justicar (pro:lots of nice non-lethal abilities/con: enter at 8th level at fastest, and costs 2 feats and several skill points) Good luck with your character, Erik ML
Iswald 05-09-06, 10:34 AM	Interesting options: * Divine Crusader (pro:charisma based casting, full BAB, okay benefits/con: enter class at level 9 the earliest-greatly diminishing the casting) * Pious Templar (pro:you seem to already like it, decent tank class/con: wisdom based casting) Divine Crusader has 3/4 BAB. Pelor doesn't have the best domains for Divine Crusaders, though you could always take the healing domain. You never hear anyone complaining about too much healing. One level of Pious Templar for mettle, if you really must.
Mommy was an Orc 05-09-06, 11:54 AM	I think the issue is feat/weapon choices for you - right now you're a tank with a relatively low amount of hit points, strength, and AC in exchange for better than average saves, some cool marshal abilities and one big swing. You've taken a WF: feat in something which isn't that useful unless you get Three Mountains from CW. And by getting Three Mountains, you get all the prereqs to Shock Trooper. But those 2 feats and True Believer can only be taken at levels 6, 9, and 12. So something like this: 6: Paladin 2: True Believer 7: Pious Templar 1 8: Pious Templar 2 9: Fighter 1: Improved Bullrush, Three Mountains(CW) 10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Heavy Mace 11: Pious Templar 4: ? 12: Fighter 2: Shock Trooper, ? 13: Marshal 5 14: Marshal 6 15: Marshal 7: ?
JamesMaissen 05-09-06, 03:22 PM	So something like this: 6: Paladin 2: True Believer 7: Pious Templar 1 8: Pious Templar 2 9: Fighter 1: Improved Bullrush, Three Mountains(CW) 10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Heavy Mace 11: Pious Templar 4: ? 12: Fighter 2: Shock Trooper, ? 13: Marshal 5 14: Marshal 6 15: Marshal 7: ? You can take Shock Trooper as a fighter bonus feat so snag it at 11 with the Templar bonus feat. At 12th you can take improved sunder and Combat Brute to round it out. 15th will probably be either extra smiting or improved toughness depending on how things have gone for you. We can assume one of the marshal aura's will be adding to Bull rushes, trips and sunders.. might as well hit all of them. Also you will want to increase your wisdom with something if possible to allow you to cast all those wonderful paladin spells that Templars get access to. Look out for the Ioun stone especially. -James
clik_ml 05-09-06, 05:55 PM	Divine Crusader has 3/4 BAB. Pelor doesn't have the best domains for Divine Crusaders, though you could always take the healing domain. You never hear anyone complaining about too much healing. One level of Pious Templar for mettle, if you really must. Sorry bout the BAB, my eyes were a bit blurry there. Pelor has plenty of useful domains tho- Sun and especially Strength for this melee character. I can't really justify healing since you can already use a CLW wand and the heal spell is way too late to be worth it. But that's neither here nor there because... The bigger problem with Divine Crusader of Pelor is that you have to be Neutral Good and that doesn't fit with Paladin at all. Serves me right for suggesting stuff when I wind down after a 12 hour night shift. Darn, and I just finished a build for it to net Sun, Strength and Glory domains up to 7th level spells pre-retirement. - Erik ML
Necrochaos 05-09-06, 08:49 PM	Yeah, my aura's are the Motivate Dex aura (for the initiatve) and the MAster of Tactics to get more damage flanking. My major aura is the + to AC aura.
Iswald 05-09-06, 11:11 PM	You can take Shock Trooper as a fighter bonus feat so snag it at 11 with the Templar bonus feat. Pious Templar bonus feats have to come from the fighter bonus feat list.
JamesMaissen 05-10-06, 02:05 AM	I had said in my post: You can take Shock Trooper as a fighter bonus feat so snag it at 11 with the Templar bonus feat. To which you even quoted and then replied: Pious Templar bonus feats have to come from the fighter bonus feat list. So what's the problem?? I mean it seems phrased as if there's a problem. However, shock trooper IS an acceptable feat for fighter bonus feats, thus it's okay for Pious Templars (as you, yourself are saying). Confused, James
Iswald 05-10-06, 10:22 PM	However, shock trooper IS an acceptable feat for fighter bonus feats, thus it's okay for Pious Templars (as you, yourself are saying). Sorry, misread what you had written.