| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Mommy was an Orc05-21-07, 12:59 PM | I'm getting a blank white document? |
| DonShard05-21-07, 01:03 PM | Try again, worked fine for me just now. |
| mregecko05-21-07, 01:06 PM | I downloaded it, and it was password protected... That's unusual. NO RULES FOR YOU! Ideas? |
| pedr05-21-07, 01:07 PM | Well I just got it fine... are you using Adobe 7.0 or later? |
| trollbill05-21-07, 01:17 PM | I got it fine too, and I must say I am impressed with the changes. The Circle is obviously listening to the players and using so darn good thinking power to give solutions to player problems. |
| mregecko05-21-07, 01:19 PM | Well I just got it fine... are you using Adobe 7.0 or later? PDF is a fairly open standard, and acrobat for Linux is crud. I'll try to re-download it. -- Gecko |
| Mommy was an Orc05-21-07, 01:51 PM | Well I just got it fine... are you using Adobe 7.0 or later? I was using Preview - must be something funky with Acrobat 8. I like the changes. I'm curious about a couple of things: With Geoff, the superregion - what was the thinking behind picking an active region rather than taking an area that wasn't active? Triad willing to do it, many embassies have employees from Geoff anyway, etc...that's going to make certain funky possibilities that might not have otherwise been possible. As an example, most islands near Florida do not belong to a region. Now that's a way to attract significant others to a gaming convention... The rule I proposed that would limit max GP/XP to APL+2 instead of half XP - not sufficiently liked, too complicated to put in midyear? |
| Dominick05-21-07, 03:44 PM | I got a funky error, Bad Encrypt Dictionary Using Acrobat 6.0 |
| jstorrie05-21-07, 04:03 PM | I also got a blank document. |
| pedr05-21-07, 04:09 PM | I got a funky error, Bad Encrypt Dictionary Using Acrobat 6.0The latest LG products tend to use features in Acrobat which requires Acrobat Reader 7.0 or greater, I believe. I don't know why, but that's the way it is! |
| Britt05-21-07, 05:13 PM | You need Acrobat 7.0+ to open the document. It has more security features and document compression tools. |
| Timlagor05-21-07, 07:26 PM | Oh great.. so I can't get the rules any more? I'm not buying a new computer to read the LGCS. *huff* ...exactly how secure does it need to be? |
| Puggle Halfwine05-21-07, 07:58 PM | The rule I proposed that would limit max GP/XP to APL+2 instead of half XP - not sufficiently liked, too complicated to put in midyear? I really liked this rule and would like to see it in play. |
| Mommy was an Orc05-21-07, 08:20 PM | I really liked this rule and would like to see it in play. Me too. But, I can see why they might put it off til 598. |
| bitznarf05-21-07, 09:00 PM | FYI: Creighton's email address appears to be incorrect still, or at least when I used it to contact him I had to drop the 'fsworld' from the addresss: Creighton Broadhurst (creighton@greyworks.fsworld.co.uk) |
| Mommy was an Orc05-21-07, 09:17 PM | Oh great.. so I can't get the rules any more? I'm not buying a new computer to read the LGCS. *huff* ...exactly how secure does it need to be? It likely has nothing to do with LG, but rather whoever is in charge of outputting PDFs for WotC or Hasbro. They're worried about the stuff we pay for, not the stuff we get for free. |
| Madfox1105-22-07, 04:05 AM | Pdf reader is free. I cannot image any computer able to use Acrobat Reader 5 or 6 not being able to use reader 7 or 8. The only problems I am aware off would people viewing the documents at work at a computer where they have no download. |
| Amurayi05-22-07, 05:04 AM | We have a couple of Dungeonmasters here as well who can't open any of the year 7 advntures or the latest LGCS. Their computer simply can't run the latest Acrobat Reader. It's true. I am hoping the circle members making the PDFs enable the option to make them suitable to be opened in older Acrobat versions in the future. We would appreciate it! |
| Maesto05-22-07, 05:46 AM | Try FoxIt or PDFReader - are their computers up to scratch for either of those programs? |
| pedr05-22-07, 06:38 AM | Apparently Windows 98 doesn't run Acrobat 7 or later. While Windows 98 is very old, not everyone keeps their computers up-to-date: it's a major cost which some people don't consider to provide enough return on the investment, if they don't generally require a computer that has all the 'bells and whistles' of later models. Does Adobe produce a version of Acrobat Reader for Linux, incidentally? I'd be annoyed if the campaign was ignoring open-source users and requiring the use of proprietary operating systems (though Britt's point about compression techniques, which he made on the yahoo group, is well taken: LG modules can be very large sometimes, and it is sensible to use the best possible compression.) |
| Timlagor05-22-07, 07:24 AM | My computer won't run Acrobat 7 or later. I do have access to one that does but it is a significant nuisance and there may very well be other people out there who don't. My tiny and ancient hard drive is 20GB... I don't consider anything under 5MB to be really significant in terms of size. I'd be surprised if the number of people with low bandwidth exceeded those with old computers. |
| scon4005-22-07, 08:02 AM | This is not the first time we've updated to a later version of Acrobat that requires a more recent version of Acrobat Reader. In fact, I believe this is the third time we've done so. It's going to happen periodically. We usually do it when the latest version has better compression capabilities, given how large some of our PDFs are. Once HQ decides to update, we follow suit. And we won't be issuing backwards compatible PDFs unless HQ chooses to go that route. -Steven Conforti, the Circle |
| Haro05-22-07, 08:16 AM | What do the last episode of Seinfeld, the death of Princess Diana and the song 'Pretty Fly for a White Guy' by the Offspring have in common? They all happened AFTER Windows 98 was released. That's how old the OS is. For Pete's sake people, I know many gamers are on a budget but you can get PCs that run Windows XP for $200. How backwards compatible do you want the Circle to make the pdfs? Should a Commodore 64 be able to view them? Sheesh... |
| Dominick05-22-07, 08:31 AM | (SNIP) For Pete's sake people, I know many gamers are on a budget but you can get PCs that run Windows XP for $200. How backwards compatible do you want the Circle to make the pdfs? Should a Commodore 64 be able to view them? Sheesh... I have players in the club who do not own a PC. If one uses a public PC at a library, printing the LGCS is impossible. Its a pain to tell them to sign up on warhorn, and they have to use a public library PC. Most people who put out documents for the public put out PDFs and also make an HTML version available. If this is edited with MSWord it would be trivial to output html. It would also be easy to put up a page for the LGCS on the RPGA site. Telling people tough toenails because people didnt upgrade Acrobat 6.0 doesn't help, but at least you see your name on the internets. Congratulations Haro! :bravo: I can't upgrade because my work requires me to output PDFs and I can't install 6.0 and the free 8.0 reader. |
| pedr05-22-07, 08:47 AM | The Pale triad used to have a copy of the LGCS in html format on their website. Obviously one of the reasons for security settings is so that anyone who has a printed copy of the LGCS knows that it is the official LGCS and that it hasn't be altered in any way. Having that available doesn't preclude the creation of a copy of the text which wouldn't be 'authoritatitve' but would allow people who can't get the official pdf to read the rules. Perhaps the difference between reading a UK statute downloaded from the Her Majesty's Stationary Office website and reading on Westlaw. The Westlaw version will be accurate, but not authoritative: in court you'd be required to show the official publication, but this doesn't make the Westlaw version useless nor does its existance threaten the integrity of the law. So whether it's an unofficial project of some webmaster somewhere (sanctioned or not) or offically done and posted on the RPGA site, it would be useful for there to be an html or plain text version available. |
| Southernskies05-22-07, 09:01 AM | Requiring Acrobat Reader 7.0 or later can be an issue with commercial printers as well. :( When bulk printing for the last convention, I had to physically print the CORES at home (on an inkjet printer) and take it down to be copied, as every commercial company I tried uses Acrobat 6.0 Professional. They're unlikely to upgrade anytime soon, as the market demand isn't there. |
| Mommy was an Orc05-22-07, 09:29 AM | This is not the first time we've updated to a later version of Acrobat that requires a more recent version of Acrobat Reader. In fact, I believe this is the third time we've done so. It's going to happen periodically. We usually do it when the latest version has better compression capabilities, given how large some of our PDFs are. Once HQ decides to update, we follow suit. And we won't be issuing backwards compatible PDFs unless HQ chooses to go that route. -Steven Conforti, the Circle HQ has essentially gone that route, though. They've made HTML versions of essential RPGA documents available for those people who don't have Acrobat. Also, the difference between 7.01 and 7.5 is plus 40K or so. The file size went up. I totally understand why you'd want to do this with mods - writers seem to be horrible at understanding how to make a map for LG - if there's a question, background color should always be white and don't use noisy gradients if possible - that will save a lot of space on your mods. It might not be as pretty on the computer screen, but it will print a lot better on B&W printers. But with essential LG documents without significant graphics(LGCS, MIL, MIC/CMI, LG Deities), there's no reason you couldn't make it backwards compatible to 6.0 - anyone seriously trying to alter the LGCS isn't going to be stopped by the security details of Acrobat 6.0 vs 8.0(print a page, scan it in, put it into photoshop, go to myfonts to figure out what font it is, then type some more copy) I'm a compression-expert - I teach Photoshop/Flash at a top 5 computer art department at the college level. I'm going to GenCon Indy - I'd be happy to sit down with individual/all members of the Circle and answer any compression related questions you might have without talking about D&D. example here - less than 600K Flash swf (http://www.anntaylor.com/catalog/editorial.jsp?pageName=MixandMatch) |
| Mattastrophic05-22-07, 11:13 AM | Pedr: Yes, actually; both Adobe Reader 7.0.9 and Reader 8 are available in Linux. As for the compatibility issue: Requiring at least Reader 7, imo, is right alongside the industry standard at this point. Currently, the big issues with Acrobat are: -Vista compatibility. -Office 2007 compatibility. The upcoming Acrobat 8.1 patch promises to solve them both, though. But only Acrobat 8, which tells us that as more and more machines move over to Vista and Office 2007 (assuming that actually happens, of course), more and more machines will thus upgrade to Acrobat 8.1, thus shifting the industry toward later versions of PDF, thus reducing the backwards compatibility, as it won't be necessary to be compatible with, say, Reader 6 anymore, since the industry will have shifted significantly forward. Southernskies: I'll be honest. That commercial printer is behind the industry standards. If they still haven't upgraded, they probably will quite soon. Dominik: I'll be honest. Participation in this campaign pretty much has "Internet access" as a prerequisite, no matter how you slice it. From con and gameday postings to warhorn to downloading the required documentation, it's necessary. Anyways, the Circle is fine with requiring Reader 7. It's in line with the industry. -Matt |
| bitznarf05-22-07, 11:25 AM | I can't upgrade because my work requires me to output PDFs and I can't install 6.0 and the free 8.0 reader. Just so you know, there is no technical problem with installing Acrobat 6 and Reader 8 on the same Windows XP/2000 (any flavor) workstation in and of itself, hell, the Reader 8 install even asks you which one to open documents in by default. They can (and do) install side by side without any issues. I have no idea if you might have something else getting in the way here, but the problem is not coming from any sort of a version conflict with Adobe Acrobat. I regularly install Acrobat 6 and Reader 7/8 side by side on workstations. If anyone needs the Reader 7 install files (I don't think Adobe provides them anymore) I'll see what I can do to get a copy to you. |
| Mattastrophic05-22-07, 11:31 AM | If anyone needs the Reader 7 install files (I don't think Adobe provides them anymore) I'll see what I can do to get a copy to you. Yeah, they still do. Now you know what would be REALLY nice? Official form-fillable character sheets, CMI sheets, and MILs, created with Acrobat 8 Pro with the option to Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader selected, so Reader 8 users can save their filled-in forms. -Matt |
| bitznarf05-22-07, 11:34 AM | That works then, I've just got local install copies of Reader 6-8 so I don't actually go to the Adobe website very often. |
| Britt05-22-07, 11:57 AM | I run Office 2007 with Acrobat 8 on Vista and have yet to have any compatibility problems, other than the one-button PDF Maker, which I just didn't install on my latest setup. The PDF got bigger because I replaced three of the graphics that had apparently gone through multiple stages of compression with the originals, which look much better but are slightly bigger. |
| Mattastrophic05-22-07, 12:02 PM | I run Office 2007 with Acrobat 8 on Vista and have yet to have any compatibility problems, other than the one-button PDF Maker, which I just didn't install on my latest setup. That's the big deal. A lot of people love that PDFMaker, and sometimes it takes some messing around with the UAC to get Acrobat to install correctly. Another one that pops up is conversion from Internet Explorer, but that can be fixed by disabling Protected Mode. If you know what you're doing, you can often get around the problems, but a lot of people are so overwhelmed by Vista anyways that getting Acrobat 8 running is too much. But that's a side topic, anyways. -Matt |
| bitznarf05-22-07, 12:08 PM | Official form-fillable character sheets, CMI sheets, and MILs, created with Acrobat 8 Pro with the option to Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader selected, so Reader 8 users can save their filled-in forms. -Matt I know that the most recent HeroForge comes with a form fillable MIL sheet. |
| Mattastrophic05-22-07, 12:16 PM | I know that the most recent HeroForge comes with a form fillable MIL sheet. Key word being "official," though. You know what would be even cooler? If the forms were set up in LiveCycle Designer to auto-populate the fields based on a HeroForge document. Thus, we'd have official campaign documents backed up by the functionality of HeroForge. -Matt |
| Timlagor05-22-07, 01:07 PM | I've downloaded Foxit which opens the new LGCS fine on Win98SE. |
| bitznarf05-22-07, 01:16 PM | Hopefully that should solve the complaints that some people have had. There are ways to open the documents still on older systems. |
| LCJJohnson05-24-07, 02:49 AM | Yeah, they still do. Now you know what would be REALLY nice? Official form-fillable character sheets, CMI sheets, and MILs, created with Acrobat 8 Pro with the option to Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader selected, so Reader 8 users can save their filled-in forms. -Matt I'll second that!!! LCJJ |
| Mistimp06-03-07, 02:35 AM | The bottom line is that the LGCS is really nothing more than a text file. Should a Commodore 64 be able to open it? Absolutely!!!! I had a word processor on my Vic 20. It did everything that Word 2007 can do, and did it on a machine with a whopping 4K of memory, long before there was a Commodore 64. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not everyone wants to bow to the great god microsoft. It is text, not Halo3. And as for security, its a bunch of rules for a game, not plans for the next nuclear sub. Anyone who wants to get around the stupid password can anyway, it is not that hard. Disgruntled Mac users unite. Let HQ know that you want "readable" PDFs!! |
| Haro06-03-07, 04:55 AM | The bottom line is that the LGCS is really nothing more than a text file. Should a Commodore 64 be able to open it? Absolutely!!!! I had a word processor on my Vic 20. It did everything that Word 2007 can do, and did it on a machine with a whopping 4K of memory, long before there was a Commodore 64. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not everyone wants to bow to the great god microsoft. It is text, not Halo3. And as for security, its a bunch of rules for a game, not plans for the next nuclear sub. Anyone who wants to get around the stupid password can anyway, it is not that hard. Disgruntled Mac users unite. Let HQ know that you want "readable" PDFs!! I didn't know that Bill Gates, or as you call him "the Great God Microsoft" owned Adobe. I'm also typing this on a Mac, while also having the LGCS open and perfectly readable. I would, however, like to see this Vic 20 computer you speak of get around the Adobe password, seeing as it isn't that hard after all? I mean really, why would a company want to protect its marketing material from being altered anyway? It isn't like it is their intellectual property... Again, eight year old computers can very easily open these files. In this day and age, not only would they not be considered 'new', they are dinosaurs in their own right. Let's get just a touch of perspective here eh? |
| _metz_06-03-07, 05:29 AM | The bottom line is that the LGCS is really nothing more than a text file. Should a Commodore 64 be able to open it? Absolutely!!!! I had a word processor on my Vic 20. It did everything that Word 2007 can do, and did it on a machine with a whopping 4K of memory, long before there was a Commodore 64. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not everyone wants to bow to the great god microsoft. It is text, not Halo3. And as for security, its a bunch of rules for a game, not plans for the next nuclear sub. Anyone who wants to get around the stupid password can anyway, it is not that hard. Disgruntled Mac users unite. Let HQ know that you want "readable" PDFs!! The computer world has moved on. IF you have a problem with it, don't use computers, because it is NOT going to change. Advances in technology and demand fuel a dynamic market. If you want to use a computer that is so old, then I have no sympathy for you. go to an internet cafe, and get it printed there. Its that simple, otherwise get a newer computer. I have a Mac that is up to date and it works fine. |
| Amurayi06-03-07, 09:25 AM | It's not that hard for the Circle who create PDF files to make the files compatible with older Acrobat versions. It's only an option you have to activate. It's very simple! Do it please! I hate to have to print all the adventures and LGCS for my Dungeonmasters who can't open the darn files! |
| Mistimp06-03-07, 12:24 PM | The computer world has moved on. IF you have a problem with it, don't use computers, because it is NOT going to change. Advances in technology and demand fuel a dynamic market. If you want to use a computer that is so old, then I have no sympathy for you. go to an internet cafe, and get it printed there. Its that simple, otherwise get a newer computer. I have a Mac that is up to date and it works fine. My Mac is also "up to date and works fine" That is not the point. The point is that text is still text, wether you save it as .txt .doc .pdf the point of it is to print it out on your printer. I understand that the computer has moved on, driven mainly by the game industry. The days of 8-bit character graphics are long gone, and if you want to run the latest games you need the hottest hardware. You do not NEED that to view and read text, even with the pretty LG logo at the top. If HQ upgraded their copy of Acrobat, thats great. I am glad they have the ability to do that. It does not mean they have to save the file to be readable only by Reader 8. All they have to do is use Save As instead of Save. And for this : "Official form-fillable character sheets, CMI sheets, and MILs, created with Acrobat 8 Pro with the option to Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader selected, so Reader 8 users can save their filled-in forms." As long as the party line seems to be go spend hundreds of dollars on a new computer, I say go spend hundreds of dollars to buy Acrobat Pro if you want fillable forms. Actually, no I don't. I agree, they now have that option and should enable it. |
| _metz_06-03-07, 01:01 PM | Well I have a Mac and I can read it... I *MUST* be missing something here. |
| pedr06-03-07, 01:28 PM | You need the latest version of Acrobat Reader, from Adobe. Apparently Macs have a third party application which opens pdfs, and this program hasn't been updated to read (some?) latest pdfs. Alternatively, FoxIt might be available for the Mac - that sounds like a smaller, less resource-hungry pdf-viewing program which opens the latest LGCS. |
| Fakegoatee06-03-07, 01:40 PM | I can read it on my Mac, using Adobe Reader 8. It doesn't bother me that I can't read the file using Preview. What does bother me is what appear to be unnecessarily high security settings for the file. The file is encrypted in such a way that it isn't searchable without opening it in Adobe Reader. I can no longer use Spotlight to search the LGCS and open it to just the right place, which is something I had really gotten used to over the past few months. Would it have been possible to require a password to modify the document without making its metadata unavailable to search engines? |
| Weeds06-03-07, 05:21 PM | Your only saving less then 100k. For the LGCS I would recommend that you not use the compression and make it as compatible as possible. However I understand the need for this and for mods go ahead and use this, the majority of the GMs have computers that meet this requirement. |
| Suvarov45406-03-07, 05:44 PM | Your only saving less then 100k. For the LGCS I would recommend that you not use the compression and make it as compatible as possible. However I understand the need for this and for mods go ahead and use this, the majority of the GMs have computers that meet this requirement. You say "the majority of the GMs have computers that meet this requirement" as if it should be acceptable to introduce a dependency that does not improve the adventure that prevents any GMs from seeing it. Would you feel the same if it was your computer that was rendered incapable of reading the file? |
| Haro06-03-07, 06:06 PM | Would you feel the same if it was your computer that was rendered incapable of reading the file? I would. For the cost of three source books, you can get a circa 1998 PC capable of using Acrobat Reader 8. If you aren't willing to give up those source books for a newer computer, then have one less night out drinking with friends, or have home cooked meals instead of fast food for a while. I understand that some people do not have the disposable income of others but in this particular case the circle have decided to upgrade security settings on the software they use to create campaign material that 99% of us can read currently or with a quick download. We've got people with new Macs complaining that their default reader can't open the new files as if Macs have never had compatibility issues (we should be used to it eh?). If 10 year old PCs are capable of reading these files, and Macs can easily use Acrobat 8 there really isn't a problem. This reminds me of the complaints people had 15 years ago when some workplaces deemed it mandatory to put their pay into a bank account and not put cash into an envelope every week for pickup. Move with the times people! Joe |
| KarmaInferno06-04-07, 12:43 AM | Also note, installing the Reader can sometimes cause problems on Windows machines that already have Acrobat Full or Professional installed. My machine stopped recognizing that I had Acrobat Pro installed at all once I installed Reader. According to Windows file associations, Acrobat Pro was still the preferred program to open PDF fies, yet if I double-clicked on one it opened the Reader. Heck, if I clicked on the 'Acrobat.exe' file in the Pro program folder it opened the Reader. I had to get my Acrobat Pro install disk and do a repair installation to get it to work right again. I found out later from the Adobe Support forums that this is a known issue, and Adobe does NOT recommend installing both. It does not always cause problems, but it can. -karma |