Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CdrcJsn 01-25-07, 03:17 AM	Post your weird character build and describe how it works. I know there's a similar thread in the characters section, but I want to see more than just "I have a 10th level steel dragon disciple!" I'm curious how you intend your odd build to work in combat and in a party. What's your role?
Paul H 01-29-07, 04:36 PM	Hi Got a Dwarf Cleric 3 (Boccob, Magic & Trickery), Warmage 4. Hardly optimised stat-wise. Good for roleplaying, not min/maxing. St 10 De 12 Co 14 In 12 Wi 15 Ch 13 Going Mystic Theurge next level. (Also bumping Cha to 14) Intended as support character. Can go Invis & heal, or just blast away as Warmage CL 7 (Practiced Spelcaster Warmage). Tend to play down, even played APL4 few times just to get a game. At that APL I've also played as front line fighter before, with AC20 & 48HP. Magic Items: WoCL (14 charges left) Wand Lighning Bolt (4 or 5 charges left) Mithril Chain Shirt +1, Lt Fort Light Shield +1 Ring Protection +1 Pearl Power (1st lvl) x2 Amulet Natural Armour +1 Fey Shortsword+1 (GenCon item) Bracers Quickstrike Currently saving for Tan Bag of Tricks Normally loan out the bracers & shortsword to whoever could use them best. As I said - a support character. (Also going to Conception on Weds). Cheers Paul H
_m_ 01-29-07, 05:29 PM	u know this thread already exists... its called 'unique characters'.
CdrcJsn 01-30-07, 01:27 AM	u know this thread already exists... its called 'unique characters'. Yeah, but that thread doesn't really go into detail as to how to make the odd character builds work and is more of a tally of who has weird characters. Knowing that someone is a Noctumancer is interesting, but knowing how he contributes to a party is a little more useful info I think.
Istaran 01-30-07, 04:03 PM	Eddy the Caster of Many Things Human (ex-Grey-Elf) Warmage 1/Favoured Soul 2/Wizard 2. Str 8, Dex 14, Con 8, Int 20, Wis 8, Cha 15 Feats: Rapid Reload (heavy crossbow), Practiced Spellcaster (warmage). ---------- Started as just a warmage, then my bodyguard's death impressed me with the need to have healing magic. Was going to go Warmage 4/Favoured Soul 4/Mystic Thurge, then realized I didn't have knowledge(religion) as a class skill. I figured one level of wizard (racial favored class at the time) would give me that, and a bunch of utility spells.. but then I realized hitting MT at level 10 was too late and I was doomed... so now I'm planning on flopping my way toward Sublime Chord if I can. I was impressed with how well-nigh-invulnerable my 6 con character was, just out of sheer luck. For quite some time I survived by chanting "Correlon Lorethian, please accept me humbly into they presence." and being rejected by my god. Everyone expected him to die in his first Con, but no. Strengths: He casts warmage spells with +5 edge and CL 5. That makes him brutally effective offensively for a handful of casts. He can heal naturally, and back that up with CLW wands. He has a HHH full of assorted scrolls and can come up with whatever low level spells are needed for most any situation. He also has AC in the 20s, and usually only risks spell failure in combat on swift spells (and 15% spell failure isn't debilitating, though it is occasionally a problem). Weaknesses: This is probably his peak level; as he goes up from here he will fall farther behind the curve until he hits level 11 and gets 4th and 5th level spells simultaneously, plus a caster level bump for warmage. Also, he is extremely breakable if he gets hit, and his ability to not get hit will diminish at higher APLs. I'm half amazed that he made it this far, especially since all the harder-to-kill PCs I make experience perma-death at lower levels. :/
_m_ 01-30-07, 05:03 PM	Yeah, but that thread doesn't really go into detail as to how to make the odd character builds work and is more of a tally of who has weird characters. Knowing that someone is a Noctumancer is interesting, but knowing how he contributes to a party is a litte more useful info I think. you dont really want to know how it works... it'll scare you. ur better of waiting till ur at a table with 1.
clannagh 01-30-07, 07:08 PM	odd builds are very player specific if someone does the whole "OMG that's cheesy and overpowered I am building one" thing and copies a weird character it will usually be pretty ineffectual as the new player does not naturally play the same way as the original person and hence can only copy tactics and will generally wallow with such a character in anything but standard iconic combats
Istaran 02-01-07, 03:38 PM	And nothing can beat Sin the Librarian in my mind as an odd build. If for no other reason than that the GM of his first mod wrote in that he had permanently gained blue scales and a lizardlike tail, and lost his gender. No matter what I did stat-wise from that point he was an irreplaceably unique character.
CdrcJsn 02-02-07, 04:17 AM	odd builds are very player specific Agreed. if someone does the whole "OMG that's cheesy and overpowered I am building one" thing and copies a weird character it will usually be pretty ineffectual as the new player does not naturally play the same way as the original person and hence can only copy tactics and will generally wallow with such a character in anything but standard iconic combats I'm not looking for cheesy builds (I already have nine characters and not looking for more). I just want to understand why people are building weird characters and how they expect them to work within a party. Istaran for example provided a very unusual caster and said that it came about because of role playing choices during play (bodyguard dying prompting him to learn healing, etc.) He's also aware of the deficiencies of the build and that the character will become progressively weaker as he rises in APLs - at least until sublime chord comes online (if he survives that long). If someone came to my table and said "look everyone, I've got a rogue2 with 3 binder levels!", I'm gonna wonder how he plans to work within the party. Did the binder levels give him something combat worthy, or is it just something interesting he picked up because it's unique?
gomeztoo 02-02-07, 07:18 AM	Nesalia R'tannouien High elf Brb1/Ftr1/Sor1/Rgr1/Clr1/Dragon Disciple 5 Senses blind sense, low light vision; Spot +5, Listen +5 Languages Elf, Draconic, Sylvan, Aquan, Gieant, Flaun, Sueloise, Orc, Goblin hp 99; fast healing 2 AC 27 (+6 armor, +3 animated shield, +4 dex, +3 natural, +1 ioun stone) Saves For +14, Ref +7, Wil +6 Speed 40 (8 squares) Melee masterwork cold iron/+1 silver two-handed sword +11/+6 (1d8+6) and Melee bite +5 (1d6+4) OR Melee masterwork cold iron/+1 silver two-handed sword +9/+4/+4 (1d8+6/1d8+6/1d8+3) and Melee bite +3 (1d6+6) Feats Draconic Heritage, Draconic Skin, Improved Toughness, Two Weapon Fighting, Scared Vitality Sorcerer Spells Critical Strike, Master's Touch When raging: hp 119; fast healing 2 AC 25 (+6 armor, +3 animated shield, +4 dex, +3 natural, +1 ioun stone, -2 rage) Saves For +16, Ref +7, Wil +8 Melee masterwork cold iron/+1 silver two-handed sword +13/+8 (1d8+9) and Melee bite +7 (1d6+6) OR Melee masterwork cold iron/+1 silver two-handed sword +11/+6/+6 (1d8+6/1d8+6/1d8+3) and Melee bite +5 (1d6+6) Nesalia provides three things to a party. - She is a fairly good damage soaker (esp vs undead, as she can make herself immune to drain attacks), and good saves (though Will happened to be much better) combined with Luck domain means she can take saves for the party when needed. Unfortunately, she does not a lot of damage when DR comes into it, so she is only a distraction until crittters start focusing on the melee chars that do. - She is mobile (good speed, Travel domain) and not afraid to draw some AoO. She best works as a battlefield control PC. Will put herself in a danger spot to save others, draw AoO, distract assialnts, provide flanking, healing, etc. - She can do most anything a bit. Cleric spells, sorcerer spells, track, and a number of languages, knowledges, and crafts means she can fill in a role as long as she can get the consumables for it (scrolls, wands), whichs he frequentle does. Not a luxury in an area where we are short on clerics. Even in the most desperate times she has things she can do. - She has an open personality which means that in a party where she's involved, Diplomacy is never entirley out of the window. She 'breaks the ice', and there have been numerous scenarios where her behavior ment that a potentially deadly encounter turned into a friendly meeting. What she doesn't do: - massive damage. Other people need to cover that. She has many attacks, but a realively low BaB and no Power attack. - attack unprovoked (unless it involves orcs). She likes to give people a chance to talk it out. - fight dragons, unless it is absolutely necessary, despite it being what she is best at - hand captured people to the authorities. Expect arguments there. - work with Iuz priests, but that isn't HER fault. In general, a ligth fighter with a lot of tricks up her sleeve.
evilaustintom 02-02-07, 11:17 AM	One thing I learned early on in the LG style of play - Pick something and do it well. Whether it be spell-casting, dishing out damage, "face person", etc. I was not a big fan of a PCs that were 'versatile'. Too many classes, for example, can often lead to the character not really being good at anything. But I've now got a 'mutt fighter' type of character that is both versatile and an effective role at a Living Greyhawk table, and it has somewhat modified my view of these kinds of characters. 1/2 orc Monk 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Master Thrower 5/Exotic Weapon Master 1 Str: 19 Dex: 14 Cha: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 14 Cha: 6 (not including stat-boosting items) Feats: Improved Critical (shuriken) Improved Grapple Improved Unarmed Combat Missile Deflection Point Blank Shot Power Attack Power Throw Powerful Hurl (the name may be off with this one - it's the requirement of Power Throw) Precise Shot Quick Draw Rapid Shot Track Two-weapon Fighting Weapon Focus (shuriken) 3 Thrown Weapon Tricks (increased critical, palm throw, ranged touch attack) Improved Evasion Thrown Shuriken don't provoke AoO The build was partially based on role-playing reasons, but has turned out to be fairly effective from a mechanical point of view. Positives: This character fills the role of fighter fairly well. He can still dish out damage. Although he has no rage or weapon specialization, he has Power Attack. Also, with his feats and class abilities, he can throw 12 shuriken a round power throwing with each for a substantial amount of damage (minus Str modifiers) as ranged touch attacks (albeit not at a high chance to hit). Even when fighting creatures w/damage reduction, he is a good melee fighter, and has a number of fighting tactics that work well in different situations (such as grappling spell-casters). He's also got great saving throws with evasion and a good selection of skills. Negatives: Due to his style of fighting, he doesn't wear armor, and I have yet to fork out the money for a better AC via magical means. If you go with the philosophy of a fighter being a 'hammer' (damage-dealer specialized) or 'anvil' (being able to absorb attacks via high HPs, good AC, etc), he is CERTAINLY not an anvil, and I think he falls a bit short of being a true hammer. Still, I find that I enjoy running this character in combats. He still contributes as a strong member of a party - he can even serve as a primary fighter in a pinch (although he's better as a support fighter or 'light infantry' as some people term it). There are things I enjoy about ROLE-playing this character, but as was mentioned earlier, that has more to do with your personal tastes. I won't get into that here. He's actually still 10th level currently - this is the build as far as I've planned him. Past that, I could go a number of directions... 2 levels of fighter & 2 levels of ranger? - for Weapon Specialization, Far Shot, and the 1st level ranger spells that decrease range modifiers in combat. I could even switch out the ranger levels for more fighter levels - perhaps for Plunging Shot. Horizon Walker? 120' of darkvision isn't bad for a ranged warrior. There are some other useful abilities I could pick up from this class. Traditionally, I've never been a fan of archers. If you're going to play a ranged combatant, have a back-up way to fight. If you're forced into melee, what do you do? This isn't to say that Archers aren't useful, but I feel that if they can't hack it in melee, they do not fill a traditional roll in a 4-6 person LG group. If you play an archer, you still need to have a traditional fighter in your group. I once had an archer than ran away from combat so that he could get a good shooting position on the bad guys. This left my straight mid-level wizard to deal with some nasty monsters face-to-face. Yet this build can do ranged quite well, as well as melee combat. In fact, I've got a plethora of weapons I can quick draw out depending on the situation...bows, harpoons, greatswords, spears, etc. Versatile, yet he still is a strong group member, I think. Tom Thowe evilaustintom@yahoo.com
bitznarf 02-02-07, 12:16 PM	2 levels of fighter & 2 levels of ranger? - for Weapon Specialization, Far Shot, and the 1st level ranger spells that decrease range modifiers in combat. I could even switch out the ranger levels for more fighter levels - perhaps for Plunging Shot. How exactly do you get weapon spec out of that? It requires a 4 levels of Fighter (barring things like Pious Templar, Favoured Soul, etc).
Japangirl 02-02-07, 12:51 PM	My rogue went to golem-killer, and I'm actually kinda happy about how that happened. Rog 6/Ftr 2/Sorc 1/Invisible Blade 5 (yes, I know Inv Blade sucks. I took it before the errata that you could free action feint only once per round, so I kinda got stuck with it) Str 10, Dex 22, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10: this includes the only stat boosting item I have, +2 Gloves of Dex. For casting purposes, I have effective CHA 18. Feats: Weapon Finesse, TWF, ITWF, Weapon Focus (dagger), Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Staggering Strike Best skills: Tumble +24, Search +27, Bluff +17 Languages: Common, Halfling, Elven, Orc HP: 103 AC: 28 (+5 +1 mithril chain shirt, +3 animated heavy mithril shield, +6 Dex, +1 size, +1 ioun stone, +2 Ring of Protection), Touch 20, Flatfooted 28 Specials: Ring of Freedom of Movement, Moderate Fortification on chain shirt, Feathered on bracers of armor +1 (fly for 50 min/day) Melee: +1 wounding dagger and +1 sacred dagger, assuming Boots of Speed activated, +19/+19/+19/+14/+14/+9 (1d3+6d6+1+1 Con, 1d3+6d6+1+2d6 Evil Outsiders) or Melee: +1 wounding dagger +20 (1d3+6d6+1+1 Con) (one attack, no Boots of Speed) Sorceror Spells Known [5/4]: 0-Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Prestidigitation, Disrupt Undead. 1-Golem Strike, Benign Transposition Liliana was going to be a straight rogue, but then she realized how neat it would be if she could just stand next to someone and kill them all by herself! The whirling dance of blades (free action feints) was very pretty, too. She realized that fighters seemed to know a lot of nifty special combat moves, so she studied with a few of them for awhile before finally finding someone who would instruct her in the gladiatorial arts of the Invisible Blade. He had watched her acquit herself well against a barbarian in the ring and realized she was in fact worthy of his training. After happily going back to her rogue training, secure in her new-found mastery of daggers she *SPOILERS MOD STILL IN PLAY* and wound up with a penchant for sorcerous spellcasting. Her spells align very well with her personality: Find the treasure, don't get poisoned, kill the Big Bad Thing that no one else can and thus get all the accolades, and run the *bleep* away while putting something big from your party in the way.
evilaustintom 02-02-07, 01:27 PM	How exactly do you get weapon spec out of that? It requires a 4 levels of Fighter (barring things like Pious Templar, Favoured Soul, etc). The build up to 12th level is Ftr2/Mnk2/Rng2/MTh5/ExW1. The levels PAST that might be 2 ADDITIONAL fighter and ranger levels... Tom Thowe
copper_wyrmling 02-02-07, 03:24 PM	I'm not looking for cheesy builds (I already have nine characters and not looking for more). I just want to understand why people are building weird characters and how they expect them to work within a party. Istaran for example provided a very unusual caster and said that it came about because of role playing choices during play (bodyguard dying prompting him to learn healing, etc.) He's also aware of the deficiencies of the build and that the character will become progressively weaker as he rises in APLs - at least until sublime chord comes online (if he survives that long). If someone came to my table and said "look everyone, I've got a rogue2 with 3 binder levels!", I'm gonna wonder how he plans to work within the party. Did the binder levels give him something combat worthy, or is it just something interesting he picked up because it's unique? Well... I have a cleric with probably the weirdest attribute array and low-mid-level feat selection you will ever see, because she was built for me when I turned up at my first Games Day (never having played D&D before) on instructions from a friend to play a cleric so that there was somebody to heal his wizard ;) I'm pretty sure the guys who built her didn't expect her to last for more than a couple of intro mods before I ditched the PC and started over (or just stopped playing LG), but they underestimated how much demand there was for clerics in the area... Anyway, that was almost three years ago, and the character in question is now fifteenth level :) She has never died, despite playing up a lot, there has only ever been one death on any of her tables (to a trap, while she was flat-footed), and she's only failed to complete a module once (it was a Core Special on a strict timer, we took the long way around and got all sorts of nifty treasure that most tables missed, but ran out of time to do the final encounter). In two other mods she's skipped an encounter or plot point but still completed the mission and gotten full or near-full xp/gp. That's a pretty good record, and I think it demonstrates that you don't need particularly optimized builds to do perfectly well in LG. While I did have an opportunity to convert her, I couldn't do anything about the stats, and by that point it was clear that (a) she was a pretty strong contributor in spite of her weird stats and feats, and (b) she already had quite a reputation in the region as a consequence of her unusual fighting style. I decided to keep the flavor since she seemed to be coping okay with the combat side of mods ;) She took Sacred Exorcist levels after she was captured and tortured by demons (in-game) and then her country was invaded by Iuzian armies of fiends and undead; she took the Contemplative level after the glorious experience of meeting her deity face-to-face at L14 (sometimes, asking for divine intervention to stop a volcano from erupting actually works :) ). Yolande Morgenrood Cleric 8 / Sacred Exorcist 6 / Contemplative 1 of Joramy Domains: Fire, War, Competition Human (Oeridian) with starting Str 14 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8 L1: Skill Focus (Concentration), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) (War domain) L3: Augment Healing L6: Improved Buckler Defence L9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting L12: Quicken Spell L15: Craft Wondrous Item The feats were basically picked up as I went along, to address observed deficiencies: this was my first ever D&D character so it was a matter of trial and error ;) So at L3, being able to heal faster was invaluable (left more actions for other stuff); at L6-10 she was playing up a lot as the sole healer in Iuz metaregionals, and due to the periapt/amulet slot conflict her hit points were not good, so she really needed an AC boost; at L9 she could cast Divine Power and run Extended Spikes on her quarterstaff all day (this was back when the Complete Divine version was legal), and she was being asked to tank a lot, so a feat for an extra attack was a pretty good deal; at L12 she wanted to be able to buff herself faster so she took Quicken; at L15 I finally had some spare TUs (previously, due to the demand for clerics in my region, I'd always run out by about August and spent the rest of the year apologizing for not being able to bring a cleric to the table) and had never seen access to quite a lot of fairly basic gear (e.g. a decent periapt of wisdom), so CWI seemed like a good choice. These days she's a full-spellcasting cleric (CL 16) with Augment Healing and Quicken Spell (and two lesser rods of extend spell and a full rod of extend spell), which means she can contribute strongly with buffs, offensive casting (primarily spells that aren't heavily save-dependent, like harm / fireseeds / bolt of glory), utility magic and restorative / healing spells; she turns undead as L14 normally, L18 if she wears her phylactery, L22 if somebody plays the lyre of the restful soul, and she has a permanent Consecrate aura (and will soon have a sceptre of obedience). If she needs to tank, then she can fill that role moderately well: in combat she has AC in the high 30s (or low 40s if she can get a natural armor buff from other party members) and after one round of buffing + moving, she can do ~150 damage/round with no need to sack her attack bonus or AC (or twice that if Zealot Pact was precast and triggers, but that's only for one combat / module), with the ability to do a swift-action teleport into a flank to get her full attack. At mustering I usually advertise her as a primary divine caster / generalist cleric with a slight focus on melee. She's not the sort of cleric who walks modules singlehandedly, blasting away with CL = level +12 Holy Word (I do know how to build those, it's not difficult, I played one in a one-shot Green Regent game and she proved capable of more-or-less soloing an EL23 encounter at L15 when we accidentally combined the three BBEG encounters). I think she's more tactically interesting, though, and she certainly seems powerful enough for Living Greyhawk. But... in case it isn't clear, this is not a build I would recommend to anybody else. The standard battle cleric with a two-handed weapon, power attack, more Con / Wis and less Dex is a better choice in most situations (although the Dex helps with initiative - usually +8 due to Extended Sign - and once she upgrades her cloak to +5, her Ref save will be +14, which really isn't bad for a cleric, although of course it's still her lowest save). The mental image of the spinning quarterstaff o' doom is kind of fun though ;) Fires of Purity is an absolutely fantastic buff for her - if she was a Pholtan or Pelorite cleric instead, I probably would've fitted in some Radiant Servant levels and taken the Purification domain - as it is, she usually asks wizards / druids for the spell if it seems like she's going to be frontlining.
Mommy was an Orc 02-02-07, 03:39 PM	One thing I learned early on in the LG style of play - Pick something and do it well. Whether it be spell-casting, dishing out damage, "face person", etc. I was not a big fan of a PCs that were 'versatile'. Too many classes, for example, can often lead to the character not really being good at anything. 1/2 orc Monk 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Master Thrower 5/Exotic Weapon Master 1 This is not what most people would really consider an odd build. I personally know at least 3 people playing the exact same build and for the exact same reasons - to throw 5 billion shurikens while using Brutal Throw and the touch attack trick of Master Thrower.
wagnert 02-02-07, 04:09 PM	My high level character started out as a cleric/rogue. He is now a cleric7/Rogue4/Dungeon Delver1/Contemplative1. Usually called a sneaky cleric, he was unique when I started but am now encountering many more cleric/rogues. With the trickery and magic domain, he is nearly maxed out on disable device and open locks. He is a good healer without the high level spells of a pure cleric, but also doubles as a great trap disabler and lock opener. With wands and scrolls, he is a back-up mage, especially when the party is mage light. He augments the party with bless/prayer/recitation or similar spells, is a decent archer with his merciful short bow, and might be the best in the party with traps and locks. Often casts invisibility and heals party members invisibly. The two prestige classes became available due to adventures played, so I chose skills and feats at level gains to meet prerequisites.
_m_ 02-04-07, 06:10 PM	4 evocationist, 3 shadowcaster, 2 noctumancer, 1 dark template. 1 wizard, 4 barbarian, 3 gsa (i think thats its build neway) 1 rng, 1 brb, 2 monk, 2 ftr, 2 holy liberator