Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Swiftbrook 01-07-06, 05:09 PM	OK LG community, what's your opinion? Should I choose Armor or Damage? Background: 5th level Ranger (just turned) AC 19 (10 + 4 dex + 4 mithril shirt +1 armor bonus on shirt) Archer focus +1 Composite Longbow (+3 str) Furyondy region (in Iuz meta-region) Only played COR mods, but looking at regionals and meta-regionals. 4000 gp to spend or save. So, should I purchase bracers of armor +2 to increase my AC had take fewer hits/damage OR should I save until I have 6000 gp to add Frost to my bow and add 1d6 damage to each arrow shot (currently 2/round) Thanks for your thoughts. -Swiftbrook
SgtHulka 01-07-06, 05:39 PM	So, should I purchase bracers of armor +2 to increase my AC had take fewer hits/damage I just thought I'd point out that Bracers of Armor won't stack with your Mithril Shirt, so your net AC would go down with the Bracers of Armor (+2 armor bonus versus the Mithril Shirt's +5 armor bonus). That being said, you can achieve the same thing with a Ring of Protection +1 and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1, both of which cost 2,000 gp (iirc) and both of which stack. I'll leave the opinions on your basic choice to more experienced players.
Swiftbrook 01-07-06, 06:00 PM	I just thought I'd point out that Bracers of Armor won't stack with your Mithril Shirt. :eek: ... granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8 :blush: Yep, missed that line. Thanks for the info. So, new question: Add frost to bow OR Add ring of protection and amulet of natural armor Or Some other armor combo I've missed -Swiftbrook
Arvagor 01-07-06, 06:33 PM	I just thought I'd point out that Bracers of Armor won't stack with your Mithril Shirt, so your net AC would go down with the Bracers of Armor (+2 armor bonus versus the Mithril Shirt's +5 armor bonus).A minor correction; wearing both a mithral shirt and bracers of armor +2 would result in an armor bonus of +5 -- the armor bonuses do not stack, but they do overlap, so you would receive the greater of the two (the mithral shirt)... Some people I know wear both armor and bracers of armor so that they retain some protection against incorporeals' touch attacks...
Swiftbrook 01-07-06, 06:52 PM	A minor correction; wearing both a mithral shirt and bracers of armor +2 would result in an armor bonus of +5 -- the armor bonuses do not stack, but they do overlap, so you would receive the greater of the two (the mithral shirt)... Some people I know wear both armor and bracers of armor so that they retain some protection against incorporeals' touch attacks... Unfortunetly, Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus as stated previously. Touch Attacks: When you are the target of a tgouch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. So the people you know are wasting their gold. Back to the tread question.... any takers? -Swiftbrook
JohnduBois 01-07-06, 07:03 PM	D&D 3.5 FAQ, Page 22: "Armor and shield bonuses from force effects, such as the mage armor spell, shield spell, and bracers of armor are effective against incorporeal touch attacks, as is ghost touch armor or a ghost touch shield."
JohnduBois 01-07-06, 07:08 PM	On the original subject of the thread, as a fellow Furyondy citizen, I advise saving for a bow with a total +2 enchancement... but not frost. Frost isn't always effective against the type of enemies you're likely to find in the region and metaregion. Flaming or shock are superior, if you can find access. Either way, if you're trying to be a power archer, you usually will benefit more from an extra die of damage per shot than +2 AC. In my experience, if the archer is getting attacked in Furyondy modules on a regular basis, somebody did something stupid.
jhorred 01-08-06, 04:39 AM	On the original subject of the thread, as a fellow Furyondy citizen, I advise saving for a bow with a total +2 enchancement... but not frost. Frost isn't always effective against the type of enemies you're likely to find in the region and metaregion. Flaming or shock are superior, if you can find access. Either way, if you're trying to be a power archer, you usually will benefit more from an extra die of damage per shot than +2 AC. In my experience, if the archer is getting attacked in Furyondy modules on a regular basis, somebody did something stupid. I concur. AC isn't as important when your goal is to stand back and shoot. And to be honest, if a really big monster (tm) is going to munch your character 2 pts of AC isn't likely to make much of a difference.
vonhist 01-08-06, 07:49 AM	Since you are in the Iuz metaregion I would strongly recommend taking either Bane (Undead) or Bane (Evil Outsider) rather than Frost. Better would be Sacred Weapon upgrade if you can find access. hint: there is access in a year 5 core mod. You can use spells to improve your AC (or get spellcasters to do it for you). Galen of Sepia
Azerin 01-08-06, 10:37 AM	if you are looking to upgrade your bow, hold off for holy. The best damage I've ever seen came from a Holy, Evil Outsider bane bow. Combine that with cold iron / silver arrows and rapid shot, and watch 1/5 of LG's monsters die in a single round. Add in a level of occult slayer and watch the DM's wince at the dice rolled. Holy is far more important then evil outsider though, as penetrating DR is huge for arrows, and 2d6 extra isn't bad. You may also see if there's access to Construct Bane access for your bow... its super rare but its one of the safest ways for a party to deal with constructs, as they usually like grappling or breaking weapons or other nasty things in melee range. And a golembane scarab, because dropping Iron Golems before they can attack is fun. :) Just my 2 cents, if it helps... -Jeremy Jordan "Alladan D'Paladin" Knight of the Malagari
JohnduBois 01-08-06, 11:13 AM	Right. Take vonhist's advice on the bane/sacred thing. If you can, get the Sacred, which I refer to as "holy-lite". It aligns your weapon, it works just as well as holy against the evil outsiders, and the extra 1d6 against undead is also great, especially since I suspect that 596 CY is going to be the Year of the Vampire in Furyondy... Either way, the region crawls with undead, so it'll help a lot.
Swiftbrook 01-08-06, 12:12 PM	Thanks for all the great suggestions (keep them coming :) ). Just some updated info: Have access to Oathbow, but don't see being able to aford it for ever Have access to 'merciful' upgrade, but didn't like the looks of it. Have access to Libris Mortis Ghost Strike and Sacred upgrades, but don't really know what they are (don't have LM) Have access to Sleep arrows Have access to upgrade bow to 'Good' for 1,000 gp. Don't know how this affects upgrades in the future (i.e. I don't think this counts as a +1 upgrade) Have access to 'bane', 'frost', and 'spell storing' weapon upgrades. Bane is evil outsiders or undead only. Have access to anything allowed in the DMG upto 25,000 gp Also, I play mainly Core mods. Seems like I'm targeted an equal amount of the time, even though I'm at the back. Last mod I played, I was the medic as well. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts
JohnduBois 01-08-06, 12:42 PM	Ghost Strike: +2 enhancement, melee weapons only, grants ghost touch ability as well as allowing you to sneak attack and crit undead. Doesn't seem very useful for your character. Sacred: +1 enhancement, deals +1d6 damage to undead, deals +2d6 damage to evil outsiders, weapon is treated as good-aligned. Now that I know what you've got, my advice is this: Save up. Use that 25,000 gp favor (that module was written by a guy from Furyondy, by the way) to get yourself a holy bow. Or save another module or so and get the Oathbow.
Sieylianna 01-08-06, 12:43 PM	Thanks for all the great suggestions (keep them coming :) ). Just some updated info: Have access to 'merciful' upgrade, but didn't like the looks of it. Have access to Libris Mortis Ghost Strike and Sacred upgrades, but don't really know what they are (don't have LM) Have access to 'bane', 'frost', and 'spell storing' weapon upgrades. Bane is evil outsiders or undead only. Also, I play mainly Core mods. Seems like I'm targeted an equal amount of the time, even though I'm at the back. Last mod I played, I was the medic as well. My archer hasn't been targetted significantly in modules. I would advise against the amulet of natural armor because you'll eventually want an amulet of health. Eventually, you may want to get a second bow with the merciful upgrade for the modules when you need to capture a foe. Like if you travel to Ket. Ghost strike gives ghost touch and allows sneak attack and critical hits of incorporeal undead as if the creature was not undead for a +2 bonus. Sacred makes it good aligned, gives an extra d6 versus undead and 2d6 versus evil outsiders for a +1 bonus. Bane gives a plus to hit and damage, while sacred only affects damage. At 5th level, I'd probably grab the sacred just because it will come into play more often. Ed
Azerin 01-08-06, 12:44 PM	Thanks for all the great suggestions (keep them coming :) ). One last note from me, before I let ya be. :) Just some updated info: Have access to Oathbow, but don't see being able to aford it for ever I try to avoid unique weapons and armor, as they aren't upgradable. If you choose to stay an archer, and keep the same weapon for the entire life of your character, it may reach +6 or +7 from add-ons; my advice, never enchant an item more then +1, as Greater Magic Weapon does wonders. -Have access to Libris Mortis Ghost Strike and Sacred upgrades, but don't really know what they are (don't have LM) -Have access to upgrade bow to 'Good' for 1,000 gp. Don't know how this affects upgrades in the future (i.e. I don't think this counts as a +1 upgrade) -Have access to 'bane', 'frost', and 'spell storing' weapon upgrades. Bane is evil outsiders or undead only. If you have access to something that lets you beat evil DR (ie a permanently "good" weapon) for only 1k, its very nice, although you should replace it with "Holy" at some point. Many things in the campaign are Evil, so the extra holy damage is very very nice, but until you get a few more levels, that'll help with evil outsiders a huge amount. To use an item from any book, you must have it at the table... ie own it, sadly. If I remember correctly, Ghost Strike is an upgraded ghost touch... it lets you "critical" undead, i think. Sacred makes a weapon good, and gives an extra d6 against undead, and like extra against evil outsiders on criticals. Its nice, but besides the needing another book, it pushes back holy access, which is fairly crucial imo. And btw, Spell Storing can't be added to a ranged weapon; elemental damage (frost, flame, etc) is useless even at mid level, with the d6 range anyway; everything has resist of some type... and While undead / outsider bane are nice, they still pale in comparison to holy, which should be the first upgrade past +1. Have access to 'bane', 'frost', and 'spell storing' weapon upgrades. Bane is evil outsiders or undead only. -Have access to Sleep arrows -Have access to Merciful Well, I wouldn't discount merciful, as I've seen our archer kill far too many people he shouldn't have (fire first, ask questions later policy); blunt arrows are a far easier and cheaper way to prevent the unneccessary death of good NPCs under evil magical control. Have access to anything allowed in the DMG upto 25,000 gp Check out bracers of archery, greater. Don't forget ring of evasion, luckstones or a few other decent 20k items... the cash will come, and that favor will come in handy. I'd look for friends, and figure out your path... a devoted archer is always good, but having to split your character in a few directions means you don't need as much archery stuff. :) At higher levels people start becoming more specialized though, hopefully you'll find more healers around so you can pump out damage... although with our archer, we don't take damage. Just My Thoughts hehe those are all of mine, good luck with your character. -Jeremy Jordan "Alladan D'Paladin" Knight of the Malagari
Swiftbrook 01-08-06, 01:43 PM	And btw, Spell Storing can't be added to a ranged weapon. Can't find that written anywhere (but I didn't check out the FAQ either) Check out bracers of archery, greater. I have, it's 25,000 gp and give you +2 TH and +1 Dmg. I think I'll spend my gold on Gloves of Dexterity +4 for 16,000 gp and spend the rest on my bow. Gloves give me +2 TH, +2 AC and +2 Reflex save. I think that much more of a bargin. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts
Arvagor 01-08-06, 01:50 PM	Can't find that written anywhere (but I didn't check out the FAQ either) No need to check the FAQ; look at DMG table 7-15... Spell storing does not appear in the list of special abilities that can be added to a ranged weapon.
Azerin 01-09-06, 01:19 PM	I have, it's 25,000 gp and give you +2 TH and +1 Dmg. I think I'll spend my gold on Gloves of Dexterity +4 for 16,000 gp and spend the rest on my bow. Gloves give me +2 TH, +2 AC and +2 Reflex save. I think that much more of a bargin. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts Oh gloves of dex are by far better, but they are far more common in access. In 5 years of playing LG, I think I have seen Greater Bracers of Archery on 1 AR (IE you will never get them unless you use an open-ended favor) :) I mean just a thought anyway, I've seen lots of stat item access, even +6 items are becoming fairly rare these days. -Jeremy Jordan "Alladan D'Paladin" Knight of the Malagari
Greyson 01-09-06, 05:53 PM	My comment is simple: I would invest in equipment, items and spells that convey the most damage in the shortest possible time. My experience is that after APL 8 or 10, monsters and NPCs are usually gonna hit your character, generally. I have found that it works better to do more damage before they do it to you - because it's likely that most of these creatures have attack and grapple checks that are +18 and above. And, I think that is the way v.3.5 is - it just get exponentially dangerous as level progresses. Second, I would consider hit point boosting items, feats or spells. Again, they're gonna hit you. If you can absorb it for as long as possible, the better your chances of staying up to do your damage. So, I agree with the note aboves suggesting different damage-dealing enhancements. I think that is the way to go in this day and age of Dungeons & Dragons. Happy gaming.
ezreal2001 01-09-06, 11:59 PM	Thanks for all the great suggestions (keep them coming :) ). Just some updated info: Have access to Libris Mortis Ghost Strike and Sacred upgrades, but don't really know what they are (don't have LM) Also, I play mainly Core mods. Seems like I'm targeted an equal amount of the time, even though I'm at the back. Last mod I played, I was the medic as well. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts OK I don't know where your Sacred upgrade access comes from but if it where I think it's from its "Adventure" access according to the favor - since you're in the Iuz Meta region this is the upgrade you want (assuming time hasn't run out) - over comes DR Evil, +1D6 vs Evil Outsiders, +2D6 vs Undead
Swiftbrook 01-10-06, 05:45 PM	OK I don't know where your Sacred upgrade access comes from but if it where I think it's from its "Adventure" access according to the favor From the AR: "...grands you ONE of the following favors. Circle one now and mark the favor USED when expended. "... will arrange for the PC to receive Frequencey (Adventure) access to ONE of the following items from Libris Mortis .... Sacred weapon upgrade ..." So, as I read this, I have not expended this favor yet. When I do choose to expend this favor, I will have access to Sacred weapon upgrade for the next 3 adventures. So now my big decision is should I really hold off for Holy (a long wait), or just go for something like Sacred now. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts
JamesMaissen 01-11-06, 02:15 AM	So now my big decision is should I really hold off for Holy (a long wait), or just go for something like Sacred now. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts Go for both.. on separate bows. I would think that most archers would tend to have multiple bows. If nothing else because stacking weapon enhancements adds up quickly. I would imagine that most would look to have a merciful bow as an option (as you can't attack with a bow to subdue other than to use it as a makeshift club..) even if you don't travel/live in Ket. I would get sacred now.. Holy is a long way off for you I would think. Eventually you could have a Holy + something bow, and a Sacred + something else bow and not have to be limited to one or the other when DR good shows up. -James
ezreal2001 01-11-06, 02:53 AM	From the AR: "...grands you ONE of the following favors. Circle one now and mark the favor USED when expended. "... will arrange for the PC to receive Frequencey (Adventure) access to ONE of the following items from Libris Mortis .... Sacred weapon upgrade ..." So, as I read this, I have not expended this favor yet. When I do choose to expend this favor, I will have access to Sacred weapon upgrade for the next 3 adventures. So now my big decision is should I really hold off for Holy (a long wait), or just go for something like Sacred now. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts That's how I read the favour too, however a number of the other refs in my region hold a differing view. Anyhow, as a money management thing you want to get gold working for you as effectively as possible. In particular consider the oppertunity cost of saving for extended periods of time. Assuming you've got a +1 bow, saving up the 16000 gps for at 5th level will take a painfully long time - the proceeds of possibly the next 18 adventures, OTH you should be able to scrape together the 6000 gps for a Sacred in about 7 adventures assuming you don't have it now. Of couse you could just blow a 1000 gps and have the bow good aligned. In all cases the bow will bypass DR Magic and Good, however in one case you'll got it right now and can buy something else, in another your PC will get bonus damage against some creatures but will be waiting for either 7 or 18 adventures. Oh and if you still can get two of the bows that you got access to from the AR which gave you access to Sacred - the're as common as hen's teeth J
Swiftbrook 01-11-06, 08:19 PM	Sacred: +1 enhancement, deals +1d6 damage to undead, deals +2d6 damage to evil outsiders, weapon is treated as good-aligned. OK, so which is better: 1) spend 6,000 gp for Sacred upgrade or 2) spend 6,000 gp for frost upgrade and 1,000 gp for good aligned? (this gives me +1d6 damage to undead, evil outsiders, and almost everything else) I'm thinking that option 2 is the way to go. -Swiftbrook Just My Thoughts