Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrochaos 06-19-06, 07:51 PM	My idea was to do this: Wood Elf Ranger 3/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 4 Str 18, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer 7: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) 8: Pious Templar 1(Ehlonna): Dex 20 9: Pious Templar 2: Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow 11: Pious Templar 4: Improved Rapid Shot 12: Order of the Bow Initiate 1: Improved Precise Shot: Dex 21 13: Order of the Bow Initiate 2 14: Order of the Bow Initiate 3 15: Order of the Bow Initiate 4: ?, GWF: Composite Longbow 16: ?: Dex 22 But, I'm at level 4 and I was thinking that Wildrunner might be a better fit. What is the difference between OoBI and Wildrunner? Looks like OoBI focuses damage on one attack, but with Wildrunner, you will retain most of your attacks. Where would I go after level 4 to go wildrunner?
Mommy was an Orc 06-19-06, 09:29 PM	What is the difference between OoBI and Wildrunner? Looks like OoBI focuses damage on one attack, but with Wildrunner, you will retain most of your attacks. Where would I go after level 4 to go wildrunner? The OotBI in that build was partially for the GWF and the ability to threaten, but also for the Will Saves - at the end of the build, without additional magic items, you end up with +15/+15/+11 - with the +2 vs Enchant/Charm from being an elf and True Believer, you should expect to make your Will Save when you need to make it. Wildrunner is a good class, the only problem is it requires a lot of skill points and if you haven't got most of them starting at level 1, you're probably hopelessly behind at level 4(as Monk is also for getting ranks in Tumble...)
zoinks69 06-20-06, 03:55 AM	Wildrunner is certainly skills-intense, though as an archer you can get there without too much work as you'll take Ranger levels (likely at 1st). You'd have to dump a few points into Int to make it work, but you really don't have to crack out your Dex to be a competant archer. Attribute points will probably look kind of average vs. the other classes that have one main one and a few dump stats. (Note that you probably want to take 3 levels of Ranger for Endurance as pre-req for Wildruner and +1 will saves.) I like monk levels for melee classes. I'm curious, apart from the saves bump, how much it really helps for a ranged attacker. I mean, it's nice to have a grapple bump, but I've seen most cases it's alot of "all or nothing" -- either your PC is tweaked out for grappling (or at least having a trick up his sleeve for escaping one) or he fails vs. big-bad-grapple monster. Reflexes is nice, but since you'll be wielding a bow most of the time, I'm not sure how much it would get used. Maybe someone can enlighten me :)
Mommy was an Orc 06-20-06, 09:34 AM	I like monk levels for melee classes. I'm curious, apart from the saves bump, how much it really helps for a ranged attacker. I mean, it's nice to have a grapple bump, but I've seen most cases it's alot of "all or nothing" -- either your PC is tweaked out for grappling (or at least having a trick up his sleeve for escaping one) or he fails vs. big-bad-grapple monster. Reflexes is nice, but since you'll be wielding a bow most of the time, I'm not sure how much it would get used. Maybe someone can enlighten me :) He's eventually going to have a Reflex save in the low-twenties, so having Evasion is great. It gives him a way to threaten when using a bow, so when someone tries to move past him to get at the casters, he can choose to try to smite/punch them. Or for that matter, Grapple them - he ought to be pretty effective at Grappling with that 18 Strength and reasonably high BAB. Combat Reflexes is for the reach weapon he starts to carry once he gets Quickdraw or for that matter when multiple opponents try to get past him to get at the casters, thinking that he'll only swing once. And if he gets polymorphed into something where he can't wear armor, he'll be able to flurry. Finally, the +3 to Fort/Will really make up for his stat deficiencies to saves.
boogahwoof 06-20-06, 03:51 PM	just as a thought, is it not worth it if you are going to go order of the bow to take the 2 levels of occult slayer needed to get the vicouse strike ability. (double damage anytime you ready a attack to disrupt spellcasting) which with a bow is easily done. in addition youll get the other second level abilty to spell turn 1 day(mind over magic), +1 against all spell like effects on saving throws, and weapon bond (+1d6 whenever you use your bow against anyone with spellcasting abilities). just a thought seeing how it seems order of the bow is geared towards one hit fantastic damage, instead of the multiple shots.
Mommy was an Orc 06-20-06, 06:04 PM	just as a thought, is it not worth it if you are going to go order of the bow to take the 2 levels of occult slayer needed to get the vicouse strike ability.. While I'm not going to go into detail as I don't want to rehash this argument, Occult Slayer has some table variation based on the rules text for Weapon Bond. Simply put, Weapon Bond says that Occult Slayers 'imbue (their chosen weapon) with the force of her hatred for spellcasters' Some DMs may require you to actually hate spellcasters.
Jay_Ibero_911 06-20-06, 09:52 PM	While I'm not going to go into detail as I don't want to rehash this argument, Occult Slayer has some table variation based on the rules text for Weapon Bond. Simply put, Weapon Bond says that Occult Slayers 'imbue (their chosen weapon) with the force of her hatred for spellcasters' Some DMs may require you to actually hate spellcasters. Fortunately hate is not a game mechanic and therefore carries no restrictions by RAW...
Mommy was an Orc 06-21-06, 01:54 AM	Fortunately hate is not a game mechanic and therefore carries no restrictions by RAW... If you happen to believe that sentence to be true and you're DM, great. Not everyone agrees with you.
Necrochaos 06-21-06, 07:09 AM	So I take it I would forget about Wildrunner with this build. Order of the Bow should work out. The bonus damage should make up for taking less attacks. Just checking to see what would work best.
Mommy was an Orc 06-21-06, 10:11 AM	So I take it I would forget about Wildrunner with this build. Order of the Bow should work out. The bonus damage should make up for taking less attacks. Just checking to see what would work best. It is up to you. Do you think you're going to be able to get the skills to the required level without compromising important skills(in particular, Tumbling) and do you want a better to-hit chance twice a day over being consistently okay? If you had started out with Knowledge(Nature) 4, the decision is a little easier, but it doesn't sound that way.
Necrochaos 06-21-06, 07:06 PM	It is up to you. Do you think you're going to be able to get the skills to the required level without compromising important skills(in particular, Tumbling) and do you want a better to-hit chance twice a day over being consistently okay? If you had started out with Knowledge(Nature) 4, the decision is a little easier, but it doesn't sound that way. Current Skills @level 4 Craft Bow 5 Hide 4 K Nature 5 K Religion 3 Listen 2 MS 3 Search 2 Spot 2 Survival 3 Just curious if maybe I should switch to wildrunner, or...if I should try to dip into both classes. Get Wildrunner long enough to get the Scream and then to OOBI.
Mommy was an Orc 06-21-06, 09:50 PM	Just curious if maybe I should switch to wildrunner, or...if I should try to dip into both classes. Get Wildrunner long enough to get the Scream and then to OOBI. I'd probably go for it then, except I'd go for Pious Templar over OotBI. While normally I favor GWF over Weapon Specialization, in the case of bows, Weapon Specialization is more valuable.
Necrochaos 06-22-06, 06:53 AM	I'd probably go for it then, except I'd go for Pious Templar over OotBI. While normally I favor GWF over Weapon Specialization, in the case of bows, Weapon Specialization is more valuable. So just replace OOBI level 12-16 with Wildrunner? Or do I mix up the build some? Or could you map out how you think is the most efficient? Is the dip in OOBI and Wildrunner worth it? Now I need a +5 strength bow.
Iswald 06-22-06, 09:29 AM	Unless you expect to always have an increased strength, I would advise against having a higher str composite bow since you take a penalty when your str is too low. If you're planning it because of primal scream, it's a bad idea, but if you're planning it because you're getting gauntlets or a belt, it's fine. Note that you have to have access to buy bows with +5 or more str bonuses.
Mommy was an Orc 06-22-06, 09:37 AM	Well, I'd go to Pious Templar 3, then switch to Wildrunner 1-2, then Pious Templar 4, then Wildrunner 3-4. As Iswald says, I wouldn't count on that Strength damage, you're mainly doing it for the increased Dexterity. Buy the bow you can use with your strength and use the Wildrunner strength when you get Str drained... So just replace OOBI level 12-16 with Wildrunner? Or do I mix up the build some? Or could you map out how you think is the most efficient? Is the dip in OOBI and Wildrunner worth it? Now I need a +5 strength bow.
ithardin 06-29-06, 01:19 AM	Here is an Archer build I worked up. I haven't really gone back and edited it since the PC it is for only has 900 XP :) Wood Elf (of course) STR 16 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 10 1st Level: Fighter (1) B.A.B. +1 -Point Blank Shot -Precise Shot 2nd Level: Fighter (1)/Ranger(1) B.A.B. +2 -Track -Favored Enemy (Human) 3rd Level: Fighter (1)/Ranger (2) B.A.B. +3 -Rapid Shot (+6/+6) -Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) 4th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (2) B.A.B. +4 -Improved Rapid Shot (no more –2 on Rapid Shot attacks: +9/+9) -DEX to 19 5th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3) B.A.B. +5 -Endurance 6th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (1) B.A.B. +6/+1 -Ranged Precision 1d8 -Improved Favored Enemy (Human) 7th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (2) B.A.B +7/+2 -Close Combat Shot 8th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (3) B.A.B. +8/+3 -Ranged Precision 2d8 -DEX to 20 9th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/ OTBI (4) B.A.B. +9/+4 -Greater Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) -Ready Shot? OR -Guerilla Scout? OR -Improved Cirtical (Composite Longbow)? OR -Improved Toughness 10th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (5) B.A.B. +10/+5 -Ranged Precision 3d8 11th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (6) B.A.B. +11/+6/+1 -Sharp Shooting 12th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (7) B.A.B. +12/+7/+2 -Ranged Precision 4d8 -Feat (one from the 9th level list) -DEX to 21 13th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (8) B.A.B. +13/+8/+3 14th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (9) B.A.B. +14/+9/+4 -Ranged Precision 5d8 15th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (10) B.A.B. +15/+10/+5 -Extended Precison (Ranged Precision shots to 60’) -Feat (one from 9th level list) 16th Level: ???? -DEX to 22 With NO magical equipment, weapons or boost items his ranged BAB winds up double digits by fifth level and eventually in the mid twenties. Be gentle, I am new to the whole "plan out all 16 levels" of a character :)
Lupo 06-29-06, 07:04 AM	Here is an Archer build I worked up. I haven't really gone back and edited it since the PC it is for only has 900 XP :) Wood Elf (of course) STR 16 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 10 1st Level: Fighter (1) B.A.B. +1 -Point Blank Shot -Precise Shot 2nd Level: Fighter (1)/Ranger(1) B.A.B. +2 -Track -Favored Enemy (Human) 3rd Level: Fighter (1)/Ranger (2) B.A.B. +3 -Rapid Shot (+6/+6) -Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) 4th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (2) B.A.B. +4 -Improved Rapid Shot (no more –2 on Rapid Shot attacks: +9/+9) -DEX to 19 5th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3) B.A.B. +5 -Endurance 6th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (1) B.A.B. +6/+1 -Ranged Precision 1d8 -Improved Favored Enemy (Human) 7th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (2) B.A.B +7/+2 -Close Combat Shot 8th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (3) B.A.B. +8/+3 -Ranged Precision 2d8 -DEX to 20 9th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/ OTBI (4) B.A.B. +9/+4 -Greater Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) -Ready Shot? OR -Guerilla Scout? OR -Improved Cirtical (Composite Longbow)? OR -Improved Toughness 10th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (5) B.A.B. +10/+5 -Ranged Precision 3d8 11th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (6) B.A.B. +11/+6/+1 -Sharp Shooting 12th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (7) B.A.B. +12/+7/+2 -Ranged Precision 4d8 -Feat (one from the 9th level list) -DEX to 21 13th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (8) B.A.B. +13/+8/+3 14th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (9) B.A.B. +14/+9/+4 -Ranged Precision 5d8 15th Level: Fighter (2)/Ranger (3)/OTBI (10) B.A.B. +15/+10/+5 -Extended Precison (Ranged Precision shots to 60’) -Feat (one from 9th level list) 16th Level: ???? -DEX to 22 With NO magical equipment, weapons or boost items his ranged BAB winds up double digits by fifth level and eventually in the mid twenties. Be gentle, I am new to the whole "plan out all 16 levels" of a character :) start with ranger, you loose one hp and gain cartloads of skillpoints. ciao martin m.
Iswald 06-29-06, 10:10 AM	With NO magical equipment, weapons or boost items his ranged BAB winds up double digits by fifth level and eventually in the mid twenties. Technically, your BAB can't be in double digits until 10th level. And, it will never reach the mid twenties, ever. ;) Your attack bonus, however, can reach those values.
ithardin 06-30-06, 12:10 AM	Ranged attack is what I meant. I claim sleep deprivation from spending most of the previous 24 hours preparing for trial :)
Necrochaos 07-09-06, 12:00 AM	Wood Elf Ranger 3/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 4 Str 18, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer 7: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) 8: Pious Templar 1(Ehlonna): Dex 20 9: Pious Templar 2: Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow 11 Wild Runner 1 12: Will Runner 2 13: Pious Templar 4: Improved Rapid Shot 14: Wildrunner 3 Improved Precise Shot: Dex 21 15: Wildrunner 4, GWF: Composite Longbow 16: ?: Dex 22 Is this correct? Can I sneak in OoBI at 14 and 15 and 16? Is it worth it?
Genghis Cohen 07-09-06, 08:18 PM	Wood Elf Ranger 3/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 4 Str 18, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer 7: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) 8: Pious Templar 1(Ehlonna): Dex 20 9: Pious Templar 2: Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow 11 Wild Runner 1 12: Will Runner 2 13: Pious Templar 4: Improved Rapid Shot 14: Wildrunner 3 Improved Precise Shot: Dex 21 15: Wildrunner 4, GWF: Composite Longbow 16: ?: Dex 22 Is this correct? Can I sneak in OoBI at 14 and 15 and 16? Is it worth it?I would get a 4th level of Ranger as soon as possible so that you can cast Arrow Mind, but you would have to raise your wisdom to at least 12. That would make levels in OoB unneccessary.
Necrochaos 07-13-06, 06:51 AM	Arrow mind doesn't seem that great in my opinion. I hope to never be close enough to make an OaO. If so, I have a monk level and I can trip them if needed. I supposed I could always get a wand of arrow mind.
Necrochaos 07-19-06, 06:16 PM	Wood Elf Ranger 3/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 4 Str 18, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer 7: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) 8: Pious Templar 1(Ehlonna): Dex 20 9: Pious Templar 2: Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow 11 Wild Runner 1 12: Will Runner 2 13: Pious Templar 4: Improved Rapid Shot 14: Wildrunner 3 Improved Precise Shot: Dex 21 15: Wildrunner 4, GWF: Composite Longbow 16: ?: Dex 22 I should have a feat at 12th level. Any idea what I should take? Should I move GWF up?
Folly 07-20-06, 02:23 AM	I should have a feat at 12th level. Any idea what I should take? Should I move GWF up? Well, with that build you do not meet the pre-reqs for GWF so you cannot take it at all, further I would move up Improved Percise. Having played an archer to level 13, improved percise is basicly giving you a +4 to hit and other benefits that come up from time to time. (+4 from ignoring cover) After having to dance around the melee to get clear shots for 10 levels I was estatic that I could just stand put and have no issues. Honestly I really dont see the point to the monk levels except for bumping you saves abit and getting evasion, but then rogue or straight ranger 9 is a better route to getting evasion in my opinion. As for Arrowmind, there has yet to be a mod since I have been able to cast it inwhich I have not used it. You cannot always count on being able to maintain range. Not to mention the number of times that I have used it out of turn to provide a flank for a rogue, or cause a caster to provoke when he thought it was safe to cast. Just my 2 cents on it.
Japangirl 07-21-06, 04:32 PM	Yeah, it's pretty sad. My flanking buddy as a rogue has been Folly's archer ranger. Arrowmind is, in my rogue's mind, the best spell ever.
Necrochaos 07-22-06, 09:42 AM	Ok, I've reworked the build, how about this: Wood Elf Ranger 3/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Wildrunner 2/Pious Templar 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 3 Str 18, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer 7: Order of the Bow Initiate 1: Ranged Precision 1d8 8: Order of the Bow Initiate 2: Close combat shot Dex 20 9: Wildrunner 1: Many Shot -Fast movement, trackless step 10: Wildrunner 2: Primal Scream, Scent 11: Pious Templar 1: (Ehlonna): Mettle 12: Pious Templar 2: Smite 1/day Improved Rapid Shot Dex 21 13: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow Dr 1/- 14: Pious Templar 4: Improved Precise Shot 15: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) 16: Order of the Bow Initiate 3: Dex 22 Ranged Precision 2d8 Any ideas or critiques?
JamesMaissen 07-23-06, 02:09 AM	Ok, I've reworked the build, how about this: 9: Wildrunner 1: Many Shot -Fast movement, trackless step 12: Pious Templar 2: Smite 1/day Improved Rapid Shot Dex 21 15: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) Any ideas or critiques? I would rotate the order of these three feats. Improved Rapid Shot's bonus compared just to the woodland archer bonus is very close to a wash.. however you don't see either until 12th when you could have one at 9th. I don't see ManyShot as being worth it ahead of Woodland Archer. Now if you've done out the math and getting Improved Rapid Shot at 12th is worth it over getting Woodland Archer at 9th, go for it.. but I would check your work. Personally I would go the other way. I'm also a great fan of quick draw on any archer/thrower as it opens up so many options for you. You're very tight on feats to afford everything here, so I'm not sure how well that works for you though. I think you're trying to throw too many things in here. You might have everything you want at 15th.. but you won't be getting anything when you want to start having it. Give up on one of the dips you're taking. -James
Necrochaos 07-23-06, 09:04 AM	Which one do I give up? And don't you need manyshot for improved rapid shot? Do I get rid of OOBI? I'm only taking it for Close Combat Shot incase I need it. I guessI could get rid of Pious templar, but the saves, smite and WS for the levels are worth it. Let me know what you think I should change.
JamesMaissen 07-23-06, 01:36 PM	Which one do I give up? And don't you need manyshot for improved rapid shot? Do I get rid of OOBI? I'm only taking it for Close Combat Shot incase I need it. I guessI could get rid of Pious templar, but the saves, smite and WS for the levels are worth it. Let me know what you think I should change. Yes Manyshot is required for Improved Rapid Shot, but neither are required for Woodland Archer. The bonus that WA gives after a miss is very competative compared to Improved Rapid Shot. Thus I would order the feats as woodland archer, manyshot and Improved Rapid Shot. This way at 9th you get atleast one of the two benefits rather than waiting until 12th for the first. As to what should you drop that is your call.. take a look at what each are giving you and what they are delaying and taking away. Monk is giving you abilities to help insure when you are in melee, Evasion, and better Saves. It is delaying: Archer feats. It is taking away: a BAB (that further complicates some of the archer feats). Pious Templar is giving you moderate saves (will), weapon spec, small DR, mettle, and a bonus feat. It is delaying: when you could have weapon spec (via fighter4), skills (not that you are focused on them). It is taking away: a feat (and thus delaying when you get certain archer feats). OotBI is giving you decent saves (REF/WILL), a small bonus that competes with manyshot in nonvolley rounds, and some insurance against melee. It is delaying: advancing other classes that you've paid for (ie getting your weapon spec finally going). It costs you: very little (skills) but may tempt you into folly. WildRunner is giving you Primal Scream (for +3 to hit a limited time per day.. the str bonus is hard to full capitalize upon), some movement that you shouldn't care much about, and scent that is not all that important for you. It is delaying again when you finally get Weapon Spec. It is costing you a 3rd level of Ranger and many skills. My advice is that you attept to make 4 archer builds. For each of them pick a different class from the above and not include them into the mix. Replace them with whatever you would feel is useful.. for example if going without Pious Templar you would go with 4 levels of Fighter for weapon spec (if you desired it.. which you should). See not only what you can and can't do compared to the original build, but compare them level by level. -James
Necrochaos 07-26-06, 07:24 PM	How about just wildrunner and pious templar? What changes would I make? Suggestions? I'm at level 5 of the progression and will hit 6 with the next mod.
Necrochaos 07-30-06, 04:56 PM	How does this look as a revised idea? 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer <---I just leveled 7: Wildrunner 1: Fast movement, trackless step 8: Wildrunner 2: Primal Scream, Scent 9: Pious Templar 1: (Ehlonna): Mettle, Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 2: Smite 1/day Dex 21 11: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow Dr 1/- 12: Pious Templar 4: Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot 13: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW)
Iswald 07-31-06, 08:12 AM	How does this look as a revised idea? 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer <---I just leveled 7: Wildrunner 1: Fast movement, trackless step 8: Wildrunner 2: Primal Scream, Scent 9: Pious Templar 1: (Ehlonna): Mettle, Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 2: Smite 1/day Dex 21 11: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow Dr 1/- 12: Pious Templar 4: Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot 13: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) It's been brought up several times already, but you are much better off taking Woodland Archer or Improved Precise Shot at level nine instead of Many Shot. The benefits of Improved Rapid Shot are generally considered less beneficial than either of the other two feats. Also, you'd be able to use either of those two feats much sooner. Your character is more effective from levels 9 to 12 instead of getting a big boost in abilities at level 12 (after falling behind for three levels).
GreySector 07-31-06, 08:41 AM	It's been brought up several times already, but you are much better off taking Woodland Archer or Improved Precise Shot at level nine instead of Many Shot. Improved Precise Shot has a prerequisite of BAB +11.
JamesMaissen 07-31-06, 04:53 PM	How does this look as a revised idea? 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, True Believer <---I just leveled 7: Wildrunner 1: Fast movement, trackless step 8: Wildrunner 2: Primal Scream, Scent 9: Pious Templar 1: (Ehlonna): Mettle, Many Shot 10: Pious Templar 2: Smite 1/day Dex 21 11: Pious Templar 3: WS: Longbow Dr 1/- 12: Pious Templar 4: Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot 13: Fighter 2: Woodland Archer(RW) Level 9: Feat= Woodland Archer Level 12 Feats= Improved Precise Shot, Many Shot Level 13 Feat= Improved Rapid Shot. That would be the minimal change that I would make to your plan at the very least. Understand that you are getting all of these feats *MUCH* later than your basic archer. Anyway I think that the low wisdom was a bad call in conjunction with a plan to take Pious Templar. Primal Scream is a band aid against the BAB hit at the cost of delaying feats that are already too far delayed. The Monk levels, while helping saves, hurts as much as it helps. Best of luck, James Maissen
Necrochaos 07-31-06, 08:27 PM	So should I get rid of the Pious Templar and just stay with the Wildrunner? It doesn't look like there is much worth it in the prestige class after level 2. The archer build was originally built for some balance. Good to hit with some archer skills and some great saves. It's not the optimum build, just looking to see what I can do with it from here. I just can't decide the best route to take. I must admit though that the monk levels have come in handy. I've used Evasion multiple times. Improved Trip and the grappling has been great when I get stuck too close to a target. Also, I always threaten because of the unarmed strike.
Iswald 07-31-06, 10:58 PM	Monk isn't that bad. Improves saves, gives evasion, and you're already using light armor because of the ranger feat. Deflect arrow may have been a better choice than combat reflexes. I've seen an archer drop his bow to engage in grappling before. It's not the best tactic, but if you already have a high strength and your arrows won't do much damage...
Necrochaos 08-01-06, 07:28 PM	Maybe I drop Pious Templar and just take Fighter to 4 to get WS. I would also get a few more feats if I continued it, or stoped at Ftr4 and went back to Wildrunner. Would this catch me up to where I should be? Am I missing some key archer feats? 1: Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Fighter 1: Precise Shot 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, WF: Composite Longbow 4: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grappling: Dex 19 5: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, Woodland Archer 7: Wildrunner 1: Fast movement, trackless step 8: Wildrunner 2: Primal Scream, Scent 9: Fighter 2 Manyshot 10: Fighter 3 11: Fighter 4 Improved Rapid Shot WS: Composite Longbow 12: Wildrunner 3: Improved Precise Shot 13: ? 14: ? 15: ? 16: ? Would this work better? Mommy Was an Orc orginially built it to be a pretty good archer with good saves, more of an all around fighter type. Originally was geared toward Order of the Bow. But I would prefer to get more than one shot in a round. Just my opinion. I'm in no way certified to create a good build. Just looking for some help. I just hit six level, don't have te cert yet, but will be playing again on Sunday, so I have to make a decision. Defintely taking the ranger level, just trying to decide on the feat.
clannagh 08-04-06, 01:49 AM	He's eventually going to have a Reflex save in the low-twenties, so having Evasion is great. It gives him a way to threaten when using a bow, so when someone tries to move past him to get at the casters, he can choose to try to smite/punch them. Or for that matter, Grapple them - he ought to be pretty effective at Grappling with that 18 Strength and reasonably high BAB. Combat Reflexes is for the reach weapon he starts to carry once he gets Quickdraw or for that matter when multiple opponents try to get past him to get at the casters, thinking that he'll only swing once. And if he gets polymorphed into something where he can't wear armor, he'll be able to flurry. Finally, the +3 to Fort/Will really make up for his stat deficiencies to saves. My preference in these situations is an elvencraft bow and a potion of shillelagh :)
Necrochaos 08-04-06, 08:54 PM	so getting rid of pious templar and going with more fighter and wildrunner seems to be the best idea
clannagh 08-08-06, 02:51 AM	Which one do I give up? And don't you need manyshot for improved rapid shot? Do I get rid of OOBI? I'm only taking it for Close Combat Shot incase I need it. I guessI could get rid of Pious templar, but the saves, smite and WS for the levels are worth it. Let me know what you think I should change. If you are only taking OOBI for close combat shot think about getting an elvencraft bow instead.
echoota 08-08-06, 11:14 AM	Just out of curiosity, if you took a level of barbarian would the rage stack with the Wildrunner's Primal Scream? The movement bonus definitely stacks, so you'd be able to have a base move of 50.
echoota 08-08-06, 11:20 AM	My preference in these situations is an elvencraft bow and a potion of shillelagh :) Where can you get access to an elvencraft bow, or even better a swordbow? I'm in Bissel and from what I hear from veterans from our region say they haven't seen any access. My wife and I both play LG and at some point while we travel the US we were thinking of jumping into LG games as we traveled. What regions/mods can we look for that has some elven theme which grants access to one of these bows?
Iswald 08-08-06, 11:33 AM	If you are only taking OOBI for close combat shot think about getting an elvencraft bow instead. The two levels of OotBI are to avoid provoking AoOs. Elvencraft bows will still provoke when used as bows in melee. If you take OotBI and have an elvencraft bow, you can both avoid AoOs and make them. Just out of curiosity, if you took a level of barbarian would the rage stack with the Wildrunner's Primal Scream? The movement bonus definitely stacks, so you'd be able to have a base move of 50. The last paragraph in the section about Primal Scream says that you can use rage and primal scream together and gain the benefits of both.
Mommy was an Orc 08-08-06, 12:31 PM	Mommy Was an Orc orginially built it to be a pretty good archer with good saves, more of an all around fighter type. Originally was geared toward Order of the Bow. But I would prefer to get more than one shot in a round. Just my opinion. I'm in no way certified to create a good build. Just looking for some help. I just hit six level, don't have te cert yet, but will be playing again on Sunday, so I have to make a decision. Defintely taking the ranger level, just trying to decide on the feat. It isn't geared around Order of the Bow other than OotBI gives 2 good saves and some useful options - the close combat shot and the eventual GWF. Really, at a certain point, Archers don't really need a huge to-hit bonus or even AC, they're more worried about failing the wrong kinds of saving throws. Monk+Pious Templar+OotBI means they don't fail those saves(or at least not as often)
clannagh 08-14-06, 07:25 PM	Where can you get access to an elvencraft bow, or even better a swordbow? I'm in Bissel and from what I hear from veterans from our region say they haven't seen any access. My wife and I both play LG and at some point while we travel the US we were thinking of jumping into LG games as we traveled. What regions/mods can we look for that has some elven theme which grants access to one of these bows? My character had access through a perrenland meta-org and in addition also has access from a very recent regional interactive.