Paladin question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Paladin question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lyros2199
02-21-04, 09:41 PM Just a really simple question:

Can paladins worship Chaotic Good or Lawful Neutral gods?

I was wondering if the "one step" rule applied to paladins like it did to clerics.
mitty_the_red
02-21-04, 09:51 PM I'm not sure either, but if it did the palading couldn't worship a chaotic good god. The only alignments that are one step from lawful good are lawful neutral and neutral good.

Mitch
lyros2199
02-21-04, 09:59 PM Yeah, I know the CG is more than a step away..thats why I asked.

Ive seen no rules against it in the PHB or in the LivGreyhawk documentation, and Ive known people to play Paladins of CG gods in home games, I just wasnt sure if that was allowed in LivG.

I also wonder if, even though LN is a step away, whether that would be ALLOWED...A paladin worshipping a neutral god sounds iffy to me, but I dunno.

Just want some clarification before I decide to make my Elven Paladin of Corellon :)
Southernskies
02-22-04, 04:47 AM Play it safe and use the same rules as Clerics for choosing a deity.

It never specifically states it anywhere, but if a Paladin chooses to follow a deity, it follows that their spellcasting is granted by that deity.
Mal_Havok
02-24-04, 03:00 PM Yes, a paladin's deity may have an alignment more than one-step from his own alignment. I for one, play a paladin of St. Cuthbert in Nyrond. I have travelled with a paladin of Osprem, and even a paladin of Corellon Larethian. Heck, there is even a paladin of Erythnyul in Nyrond. He is rather confused....but legal.

So yes, it IS legal.
Simpi
02-24-04, 04:19 PM Originally posted by Mal_Havok
Heck, there is even a paladin of Erythnyul in Nyrond. He is rather confused....but legal.

So yes, it IS legal.

Explain this to me. Accroding to LGCS, no character can serve an evil god. I know some are the borderline cases but Chaotic evil Erythnyl certainly isn't such case.

Also, 3.5 rules state that paladins must be lawful good. In tems of what god he/she can worhsip and taking 'one alignment away' approach, paladins must serve either LG, NG, LN god. That means no Erythnul, end of story.
StevieS
02-24-04, 05:56 PM St Cuthbert & Osprem and both LN so an LG paladin works but CG Corellon Larethian? How does a strictly lawful paladin reconcile that with his chaotic deity.

As for Erythnul ....... he is CE. Besides the obvious alignment issues the LGCS p9 is pretty clear that you can't serve an evil patron deity.

"Non-clerical or paladin characters are not required to worship a deity but if they choose to do so they must pick from the same chart as clerics"
Mal_Havok
02-24-04, 06:00 PM My bad, it is actually a paladin of Vecna, not Erythnul.....and he worships some non-evil aspect of him. It's not my PC, I don't know for sure, but he plays it.

As for paladins worshiping non-L/G gods, well....they arent clerics, and therefore NOT subject to the one-step rule. Pretty simple.
StevieS
02-24-04, 06:18 PM Ah, Vecna. Just NE then? Lesser deity of destructive and evil secrets, represented by an LG paladin.

It all makes sense now :confused:

It seems pretty simple people have no concept of the deities or their alignments and portfolios to me.
Macabail
02-24-04, 06:54 PM Plain and simple. A paladin (in fact any character who doesn't wish to leave play) cannot pay homage to an evil god.

So no Vecna, no Erythnul (no Wastri for that matter either, or Iuz or any other Evil deity).
Simpi
02-25-04, 03:10 AM Originally posted by StevieS
Ah, Vecna. Just NE then? Lesser deity of destructive and evil secrets, represented by an LG paladin.

It all makes sense now :confused:

It seems pretty simple people have no concept of the deities or their alignments and portfolios to me.

And archlich as a bonus. Seriously people, where do these ideas come from?

This would seem to be bad case of 'I want to bend the rules because I can do so in our home games too! I must have right to do whatever I want with my character, otherwise it Godless Communism (tm)!:D

Let's face it people, Wee Jas or Kurell are probably the closest thing you can get to an evil God for LG characters.
Jeryl
02-25-04, 05:50 AM It's written clearly in the PHB.

The paladin can't associate with evil characters.

I think it is fair to say your paladin is associated with his clergy or he would'nt be a paladin in the first place.
Macabail
02-25-04, 11:25 AM Wee Jas isn't actually evil. She is the protector of the Suel dead, and the godess of magic. She also only gained the death portfolio during the Twin Cataclysms, before that there was no Suel death god (at least that anyone knows of).
Simpi
02-25-04, 02:52 PM Originally posted by Macabail
Wee Jas isn't actually evil. She is the protector of the Suel dead, and the godess of magic. She also only gained the death portfolio during the Twin Cataclysms, before that there was no Suel death god (at least that anyone knows of).

No, but her servants are mainly LE as shown in LGG. I also don't think there are many other (or any?) deitys that will grant you Death domain.
Macabail
02-25-04, 03:08 PM Hmmm... Well some of her servants are Evil that is true. However, there may be some prejudice to that due to where her predominant worship occurs.

Most worship, in canon at least, of Wee Jas occurs in a LE society, whereas most of the worshippers that the average player finds are liable to be LN.

Also, just because her worshippers are LE, doesn't change the fact that the deity is LN. She herself may not necessarily condone all the actions of her followers. Another example that is similar to this is the various factions of Pholtans (LN vs. LG).

As far as the Death domain, there aren't many that grant the domain that can be played by PC's. There are another 3-4 that grant it, but they are all Evil aligned.
Samwise
02-27-04, 04:08 PM Where do they come from?
Very simple - it doesn't say they can't do it, so obviously it must be legal.
Because the PH assumes a default of paladins (and rangers and druids for that matter) not directly having a deity, the LG campaign can't require it.
And because of that, those characters are free to chose any deity they theoretically follow, no matter how absurd, or seemingly in contradiction of the rules.
As for why people play characters with such a disregard for the intent of the rules and the background of the game, I have so far seen three reasons.
The first is because they get off on the power trip of abusing the rules and mocking the game.
The second is because they want to throw the absurdity in the face of the campaign administrators so they will change the rules.
The third is they don't know the background and pick one by mistake. Fortunately, most of these people are willing to change when you point such things out to them.
As for the rest, we just have to deal with it until someone decides to write some better rules.
hustonjj
02-28-04, 02:51 AM Originally posted by Samwise
Because the PH assumes a default of paladins (and rangers and druids for that matter) not directly having a deity, the LG campaign can't require it.

I'll admit it. I didn't read your post past that sentence.

Yes, the LG campaign can require it.

And I know that you know that.
Samwise
02-28-04, 04:15 PM The campaign is supposed to use the default rules whenever possible, with no alterations. Because of that, it took 4 years to ban Wastri as an acceptable deity for PCs.

And I know you know that.

So it would be nice if this thing with paladins and other classes could be altered in less than another 4 years, but I doubt it will be.
Simpi
02-28-04, 04:35 PM Originally posted by Samwise
The campaign is supposed to use the default rules whenever possible, with no alterations. Because of that, it took 4 years to ban Wastri as an acceptable deity for PCs.

And I know you know that.

So it would be nice if this thing with paladins and other classes could be altered in less than another 4 years, but I doubt it will be.

At least they cleared some things about cleric gods on the new addition to LG page, essentially banning Aasterian and Bahamut )and other such gods), but left things open for other classes.

In case of paladins, it would not be that hard to just make a following change to LGCS: Paladins must serve either LG or NG deity suitable for his/her race.

It would keep things simpler and ensure there are no paladins of Kurell jumping all over the place :D
Catsbane
03-05-04, 11:24 PM Personally, I see no problem with Paladin's of LN dieties, assuming the right diety <A lot of it depends on thier domains> I could almost see some LE and CG dieties as well, since they are not technically Clerics and still provide some connection to what thier Dieties support <Though LE would be out in Living Greyhawk as there is the No Evil Gods rule> But NE, CE, CN, and True Neutrel, just doesn't make any sense at all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lyros2199 02-21-04, 09:41 PM	Just a really simple question: Can paladins worship Chaotic Good or Lawful Neutral gods? I was wondering if the "one step" rule applied to paladins like it did to clerics.
mitty_the_red 02-21-04, 09:51 PM	I'm not sure either, but if it did the palading couldn't worship a chaotic good god. The only alignments that are one step from lawful good are lawful neutral and neutral good. Mitch
lyros2199 02-21-04, 09:59 PM	Yeah, I know the CG is more than a step away..thats why I asked. Ive seen no rules against it in the PHB or in the LivGreyhawk documentation, and Ive known people to play Paladins of CG gods in home games, I just wasnt sure if that was allowed in LivG. I also wonder if, even though LN is a step away, whether that would be ALLOWED...A paladin worshipping a neutral god sounds iffy to me, but I dunno. Just want some clarification before I decide to make my Elven Paladin of Corellon :)
Southernskies 02-22-04, 04:47 AM	Play it safe and use the same rules as Clerics for choosing a deity. It never specifically states it anywhere, but if a Paladin chooses to follow a deity, it follows that their spellcasting is granted by that deity.
Mal_Havok 02-24-04, 03:00 PM	Yes, a paladin's deity may have an alignment more than one-step from his own alignment. I for one, play a paladin of St. Cuthbert in Nyrond. I have travelled with a paladin of Osprem, and even a paladin of Corellon Larethian. Heck, there is even a paladin of Erythnyul in Nyrond. He is rather confused....but legal. So yes, it IS legal.
Simpi 02-24-04, 04:19 PM	Originally posted by Mal_Havok Heck, there is even a paladin of Erythnyul in Nyrond. He is rather confused....but legal. So yes, it IS legal. Explain this to me. Accroding to LGCS, no character can serve an evil god. I know some are the borderline cases but Chaotic evil Erythnyl certainly isn't such case. Also, 3.5 rules state that paladins must be lawful good. In tems of what god he/she can worhsip and taking 'one alignment away' approach, paladins must serve either LG, NG, LN god. That means no Erythnul, end of story.
StevieS 02-24-04, 05:56 PM	St Cuthbert & Osprem and both LN so an LG paladin works but CG Corellon Larethian? How does a strictly lawful paladin reconcile that with his chaotic deity. As for Erythnul ....... he is CE. Besides the obvious alignment issues the LGCS p9 is pretty clear that you can't serve an evil patron deity. "Non-clerical or paladin characters are not required to worship a deity but if they choose to do so they must pick from the same chart as clerics"
Mal_Havok 02-24-04, 06:00 PM	My bad, it is actually a paladin of Vecna, not Erythnul.....and he worships some non-evil aspect of him. It's not my PC, I don't know for sure, but he plays it. As for paladins worshiping non-L/G gods, well....they arent clerics, and therefore NOT subject to the one-step rule. Pretty simple.
StevieS 02-24-04, 06:18 PM	Ah, Vecna. Just NE then? Lesser deity of destructive and evil secrets, represented by an LG paladin. It all makes sense now :confused: It seems pretty simple people have no concept of the deities or their alignments and portfolios to me.
Macabail 02-24-04, 06:54 PM	Plain and simple. A paladin (in fact any character who doesn't wish to leave play) cannot pay homage to an evil god. So no Vecna, no Erythnul (no Wastri for that matter either, or Iuz or any other Evil deity).
Simpi 02-25-04, 03:10 AM	Originally posted by StevieS Ah, Vecna. Just NE then? Lesser deity of destructive and evil secrets, represented by an LG paladin. It all makes sense now :confused: It seems pretty simple people have no concept of the deities or their alignments and portfolios to me. And archlich as a bonus. Seriously people, where do these ideas come from? This would seem to be bad case of 'I want to bend the rules because I can do so in our home games too! I must have right to do whatever I want with my character, otherwise it Godless Communism (tm)!:D Let's face it people, Wee Jas or Kurell are probably the closest thing you can get to an evil God for LG characters.
Jeryl 02-25-04, 05:50 AM	It's written clearly in the PHB. The paladin can't associate with evil characters. I think it is fair to say your paladin is associated with his clergy or he would'nt be a paladin in the first place.
Macabail 02-25-04, 11:25 AM	Wee Jas isn't actually evil. She is the protector of the Suel dead, and the godess of magic. She also only gained the death portfolio during the Twin Cataclysms, before that there was no Suel death god (at least that anyone knows of).
Simpi 02-25-04, 02:52 PM	Originally posted by Macabail Wee Jas isn't actually evil. She is the protector of the Suel dead, and the godess of magic. She also only gained the death portfolio during the Twin Cataclysms, before that there was no Suel death god (at least that anyone knows of). No, but her servants are mainly LE as shown in LGG. I also don't think there are many other (or any?) deitys that will grant you Death domain.
Macabail 02-25-04, 03:08 PM	Hmmm... Well some of her servants are Evil that is true. However, there may be some prejudice to that due to where her predominant worship occurs. Most worship, in canon at least, of Wee Jas occurs in a LE society, whereas most of the worshippers that the average player finds are liable to be LN. Also, just because her worshippers are LE, doesn't change the fact that the deity is LN. She herself may not necessarily condone all the actions of her followers. Another example that is similar to this is the various factions of Pholtans (LN vs. LG). As far as the Death domain, there aren't many that grant the domain that can be played by PC's. There are another 3-4 that grant it, but they are all Evil aligned.
Samwise 02-27-04, 04:08 PM	Where do they come from? Very simple - it doesn't say they can't do it, so obviously it must be legal. Because the PH assumes a default of paladins (and rangers and druids for that matter) not directly having a deity, the LG campaign can't require it. And because of that, those characters are free to chose any deity they theoretically follow, no matter how absurd, or seemingly in contradiction of the rules. As for why people play characters with such a disregard for the intent of the rules and the background of the game, I have so far seen three reasons. The first is because they get off on the power trip of abusing the rules and mocking the game. The second is because they want to throw the absurdity in the face of the campaign administrators so they will change the rules. The third is they don't know the background and pick one by mistake. Fortunately, most of these people are willing to change when you point such things out to them. As for the rest, we just have to deal with it until someone decides to write some better rules.
hustonjj 02-28-04, 02:51 AM	Originally posted by Samwise Because the PH assumes a default of paladins (and rangers and druids for that matter) not directly having a deity, the LG campaign can't require it. I'll admit it. I didn't read your post past that sentence. Yes, the LG campaign can require it. And I know that you know that.
Samwise 02-28-04, 04:15 PM	The campaign is supposed to use the default rules whenever possible, with no alterations. Because of that, it took 4 years to ban Wastri as an acceptable deity for PCs. And I know you know that. So it would be nice if this thing with paladins and other classes could be altered in less than another 4 years, but I doubt it will be.
Simpi 02-28-04, 04:35 PM	Originally posted by Samwise The campaign is supposed to use the default rules whenever possible, with no alterations. Because of that, it took 4 years to ban Wastri as an acceptable deity for PCs. And I know you know that. So it would be nice if this thing with paladins and other classes could be altered in less than another 4 years, but I doubt it will be. At least they cleared some things about cleric gods on the new addition to LG page, essentially banning Aasterian and Bahamut )and other such gods), but left things open for other classes. In case of paladins, it would not be that hard to just make a following change to LGCS: Paladins must serve either LG or NG deity suitable for his/her race. It would keep things simpler and ensure there are no paladins of Kurell jumping all over the place :D
Catsbane 03-05-04, 11:24 PM	Personally, I see no problem with Paladin's of LN dieties, assuming the right diety <A lot of it depends on thier domains> I could almost see some LE and CG dieties as well, since they are not technically Clerics and still provide some connection to what thier Dieties support <Though LE would be out in Living Greyhawk as there is the No Evil Gods rule> But NE, CE, CN, and True Neutrel, just doesn't make any sense at all.