Prestige class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Prestige class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
loonacy
01-13-06, 09:08 PM I am a dwarven fighter and I want to prepare him for a prestige class. I have narrowed it down to two. a Dwarven Defender or an Order of the Bow initiate. One is primarily defense and melee and one is ranged weapon fighting. Which one?
Mommy was an Orc
01-13-06, 09:16 PM Really depends on the feats and stats you already have if you've started play...

I am a dwarven fighter and I want to prepare him for a prestige class. I have narrowed it down to two. a Dwarven Defender or an Order of the Bow initiate. One is primarily defense and melee and one is ranged weapon fighting. Which one?
redgamer
01-13-06, 10:19 PM Wow that's about as vague as asking if you should play a cleric or wizard. I think ranged combat is more fun until lvl 8 or so then melee combat is more fun. Dwarven Defender is a much stronger class but requires you to take toughness and dodge which you wouldn't want otherwise. Order of the Bow Initiate require feats all good archers take anyways (except perhaps Weapon Focus) but is IMO worse than taking fighter levels.
gomeztoo
01-14-06, 03:48 PM I created a character for Dwarven Defender, but I deliverately developed him to be a speed bump character - high AC, high hitpoints, but not great damage output. I only played him twice (he's level 2 now), but so far it went, having him stand up against an ogre, giant skeletons and even a wight.
It works, and in this particular 'you have to get through me to get to the party' concept, DD is a good PC choice.
If, however, if you do not feel much to be the one the monsters will hit on, and if you are not prepped with right feats and a high Con already, you shouldn't take the class.
ithardin
01-19-06, 03:13 AM Dwarven Bow = Thrown Battleaxe :)

If you want to have some range fun with your Dwarven fighter, consider the feats Brutal Toss, which lets you use STR instead of DEX for your ranged attack, or Throw Anything, which lets you throw any weapon you are proficient with a 10' range increment.

I think that might be fun to see the Dwarven Defender huck a couple of battleaxes at the BBEG (big, bad, evil guy) and then go into defensive stance when he gets close.
loonacy
01-19-06, 05:09 PM greta reply ithardin! What book is brutal toss and throw anything in. It sounds like a fun combonation.
JohnduBois
01-19-06, 06:21 PM Throw Anything is page 105 of Complete Warrior.
Brutal Throw is page 106 of Complete Adventurer.

Other options to consider with these two feats:
Power Throw: p111, Complete Adventurer, lets you Power Attack with thrown weapons
Master Thrower: p58, Complete Warrior. Not a great class for all five levels, but a one level dip gives you Quick Draw as a bonus feat (lets you get iterative attacks with thrown weapons) as well as giving you one thrown weapon trick, and most people using thrown weapons can use one of them.

Also note: Like many character options, this has the potential to be insanely sick with a Centaur.
ithardin
01-19-06, 06:58 PM Add in Double Throw and you have visions of a centaur chucking two bastard swords at a time at the BBEG!
Arvagor
01-19-06, 07:53 PM Add in Double Throw and you have visions of a centaur chucking two bastard swords at a time at the BBEG!If you're referring to the Doubletoss trick of the Master Thrower PrC (there is no Double Throw feat), then that would not work with bastard swords -- "Each trick may only be used with a thrown weapon for which the character has taken Weapon Focus." And Weapon Focus(bastard sword) would not qualify, as bastard swords are not thrown weapons (IMO, the Throw Anything feat does not alter that fact; it only removes the penalty you would normally receive for throwing a non-thrown weapon)
loonacy
01-20-06, 12:43 AM If you're referring to the Doubletoss trick of the Master Thrower PrC (there is no Double Throw feat), then that would not work with bastard swords -- "Each trick may only be used with a thrown weapon for which the character has taken Weapon Focus." And Weapon Focus(bastard sword) would not qualify, as bastard swords are not thrown weapons (IMO, the Throw Anything feat does not alter that fact; it only removes the penalty you would normally receive for throwing a non-thrown weapon)

If you had the throw anything feat wouldn't that make the bastard sword a "thrown weapon". If so then the double toss trick should work (if you had weapon focus in the weapon you were throwing).
ithardin
01-20-06, 07:40 AM I think this is a situation where you are going to get variation among DMs. Some will be of the "it doesn't say you CAN'T" vs. "it doesn't say you CAN." So doing this with a PC may run you into a DM-imposed brick wall who will not allow you to double toss anything that is not originally listed with a range increment. All the more reason to have him be the Dwarven Defender so that he has other abilities to use.
Reylance
01-20-06, 04:28 PM If you had the throw anything feat wouldn't that make the bastard sword a "thrown weapon". If so then the double toss trick should work (if you had weapon focus in the weapon you were throwing).

Based on the wording of the Throw Anything feat, it allows you to treat all weapons as if they had a 10' range increment, which is the definition of a thrown weapon. So I'd allow it.
JohnduBois
01-20-06, 05:17 PM I would rule the same way. However, I would also as a player carry other thrown weapons (an Atlatl, if I was a Centaur) in the event of table variations.
Arvagor
01-20-06, 05:35 PM Heh... I'm really not trying to be a killjoy, but you can't use DoubleToss on an atlatl either -- it's not an exotic weapon...
JohnduBois
01-20-06, 05:44 PM ... I'm confused. I don't see a mention of exotic weapons in the Master Thrower description.
Arvagor
01-20-06, 06:20 PM :thinks: Sorry... disregard above statement... My brain had switched over to Exotic Weapon Master for some reason... :drool:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
loonacy 01-13-06, 09:08 PM	I am a dwarven fighter and I want to prepare him for a prestige class. I have narrowed it down to two. a Dwarven Defender or an Order of the Bow initiate. One is primarily defense and melee and one is ranged weapon fighting. Which one?
Mommy was an Orc 01-13-06, 09:16 PM	Really depends on the feats and stats you already have if you've started play... I am a dwarven fighter and I want to prepare him for a prestige class. I have narrowed it down to two. a Dwarven Defender or an Order of the Bow initiate. One is primarily defense and melee and one is ranged weapon fighting. Which one?
redgamer 01-13-06, 10:19 PM	Wow that's about as vague as asking if you should play a cleric or wizard. I think ranged combat is more fun until lvl 8 or so then melee combat is more fun. Dwarven Defender is a much stronger class but requires you to take toughness and dodge which you wouldn't want otherwise. Order of the Bow Initiate require feats all good archers take anyways (except perhaps Weapon Focus) but is IMO worse than taking fighter levels.
gomeztoo 01-14-06, 03:48 PM	I created a character for Dwarven Defender, but I deliverately developed him to be a speed bump character - high AC, high hitpoints, but not great damage output. I only played him twice (he's level 2 now), but so far it went, having him stand up against an ogre, giant skeletons and even a wight. It works, and in this particular 'you have to get through me to get to the party' concept, DD is a good PC choice. If, however, if you do not feel much to be the one the monsters will hit on, and if you are not prepped with right feats and a high Con already, you shouldn't take the class.
ithardin 01-19-06, 03:13 AM	Dwarven Bow = Thrown Battleaxe :) If you want to have some range fun with your Dwarven fighter, consider the feats Brutal Toss, which lets you use STR instead of DEX for your ranged attack, or Throw Anything, which lets you throw any weapon you are proficient with a 10' range increment. I think that might be fun to see the Dwarven Defender huck a couple of battleaxes at the BBEG (big, bad, evil guy) and then go into defensive stance when he gets close.
loonacy 01-19-06, 05:09 PM	greta reply ithardin! What book is brutal toss and throw anything in. It sounds like a fun combonation.
JohnduBois 01-19-06, 06:21 PM	Throw Anything is page 105 of Complete Warrior. Brutal Throw is page 106 of Complete Adventurer. Other options to consider with these two feats: Power Throw: p111, Complete Adventurer, lets you Power Attack with thrown weapons Master Thrower: p58, Complete Warrior. Not a great class for all five levels, but a one level dip gives you Quick Draw as a bonus feat (lets you get iterative attacks with thrown weapons) as well as giving you one thrown weapon trick, and most people using thrown weapons can use one of them. Also note: Like many character options, this has the potential to be insanely sick with a Centaur.
ithardin 01-19-06, 06:58 PM	Add in Double Throw and you have visions of a centaur chucking two bastard swords at a time at the BBEG!
Arvagor 01-19-06, 07:53 PM	Add in Double Throw and you have visions of a centaur chucking two bastard swords at a time at the BBEG!If you're referring to the Doubletoss trick of the Master Thrower PrC (there is no Double Throw feat), then that would not work with bastard swords -- "Each trick may only be used with a thrown weapon for which the character has taken Weapon Focus." And Weapon Focus(bastard sword) would not qualify, as bastard swords are not thrown weapons (IMO, the Throw Anything feat does not alter that fact; it only removes the penalty you would normally receive for throwing a non-thrown weapon)
loonacy 01-20-06, 12:43 AM	If you're referring to the Doubletoss trick of the Master Thrower PrC (there is no Double Throw feat), then that would not work with bastard swords -- "Each trick may only be used with a thrown weapon for which the character has taken Weapon Focus." And Weapon Focus(bastard sword) would not qualify, as bastard swords are not thrown weapons (IMO, the Throw Anything feat does not alter that fact; it only removes the penalty you would normally receive for throwing a non-thrown weapon) If you had the throw anything feat wouldn't that make the bastard sword a "thrown weapon". If so then the double toss trick should work (if you had weapon focus in the weapon you were throwing).
ithardin 01-20-06, 07:40 AM	I think this is a situation where you are going to get variation among DMs. Some will be of the "it doesn't say you CAN'T" vs. "it doesn't say you CAN." So doing this with a PC may run you into a DM-imposed brick wall who will not allow you to double toss anything that is not originally listed with a range increment. All the more reason to have him be the Dwarven Defender so that he has other abilities to use.
Reylance 01-20-06, 04:28 PM	If you had the throw anything feat wouldn't that make the bastard sword a "thrown weapon". If so then the double toss trick should work (if you had weapon focus in the weapon you were throwing). Based on the wording of the Throw Anything feat, it allows you to treat all weapons as if they had a 10' range increment, which is the definition of a thrown weapon. So I'd allow it.
JohnduBois 01-20-06, 05:17 PM	I would rule the same way. However, I would also as a player carry other thrown weapons (an Atlatl, if I was a Centaur) in the event of table variations.
Arvagor 01-20-06, 05:35 PM	Heh... I'm really not trying to be a killjoy, but you can't use DoubleToss on an atlatl either -- it's not an exotic weapon...
JohnduBois 01-20-06, 05:44 PM	... I'm confused. I don't see a mention of exotic weapons in the Master Thrower description.
Arvagor 01-20-06, 06:20 PM	:thinks: Sorry... disregard above statement... My brain had switched over to Exotic Weapon Master for some reason... :drool: