Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjenks 01-27-06, 10:44 AM	According to Dispel Confusion Vol. 2, No. 1... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20060119a ...the Brilliant Aura spell was added to the Sorc/Wiz 8 spell list. However, the Spell Compendium lists it as Sorc/Wiz 7. Which is it for LG, 7 or 8?
Moryath 01-27-06, 11:31 AM	According to Dispel Confusion Vol. 2, No. 1... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20060119a ...the Brilliant Aura spell was added to the Sorc/Wiz 8 spell list. However, the Spell Compendium lists it as Sorc/Wiz 7. Which is it for LG, 7 or 8? I think it was from another book? In which case it's 8th level before Feb. 1st, and then 7th level thereafter.
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 11:39 AM	While we're at it, I would like for anyone to point out the difference between the Liberation domain as defined in CD and its (supposedly) new version in SC. According to Dispel Confusion, that's one of the 6 domains that underwent a change but I can't find what the difference is :confused:
kjenks 01-27-06, 12:21 PM	While we're at it, I would like for anyone to point out the difference between the Liberation domain as defined in CD and its (supposedly) new version in SC. According to Dispel Confusion, that's one of the 6 domains that underwent a change but I can't find what the difference is :confused: SpC version of the Liberation domain: LIBERATION DOMAIN Granted Power: If you are affected by a charm, compulsion or fear effect and fail your saving throw, you can attempt the save again 1 round later at the same DC. You get only this one extra chance to succeed on your saving throw. Liberation Domain Spells 1 Omen of Peril: You know how dangerous the future will be. 2 Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours. 3 Rage: Gives +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, -2 to AC. 4 Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments. 5 Break Enchantment: Frees subjcts from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. 6 Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but up to +20 on check. 7 Refuge: Alters item to transport its possessor to you. Costs 1,500 gp. 8 Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying. 9 Unbinding: Destroys binding spells within 180 ft. The CD version: LIBERATION DOMAIN CD Granted Power: If you are affected by a charm, compulsion or fear effect and fail your saving throw, you can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. You get only this one extra chance to succeed on your saving throw. This granted power is considered a supernatural ability. Liberation Domain Spells 1 Omen of Peril: You know how dangerous the future will be. CD, RD 2 Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours. 3 Rage: Gives +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, -2 to AC. 4 Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments. 5 Break Enchantment: Frees subjcts from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. 6 Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but up to +20 on check. 7 Refuge: Alters item to transport its possessor to you. Costs 1,500 gp. 8 Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying. 9 Unbinding: Destroys binding spells within 180 ft. CD There's a tiny change in the wording of the granted power: "it" changed to "the save" and it's no longer a Su ability.
kjenks 01-27-06, 12:21 PM	The Dispel Confusion article says that Listening Coin changes from 4th to 3rd. The SpC says Listening Coin is Bard 3. CV lists Listening Coin as Vigilante 4. Does this all mean that Listening Coin is now Bard 3, Vigilante 3?
kjenks 01-27-06, 12:31 PM	The Dispel Confusion article says Maelstrom (added druid 8) But the CD Errata already did that, so I guess this is just reminds people to use the errata, right? Edit: Same thing with "Waterspout (added druid 7)"
kjenks 01-27-06, 12:40 PM	I assume that since we are modifying the Ranger spell list and the Consecrated Harrier spell list is based on the Ranger spell list, we should also change the Consecrated Harrier spell list, right? Same with Blackguard and neutral Pious Templar, Paladin and Holy Liberator, Wiz/Sorc and Sublime Chord, Bard and Sublime Chord. So when the Dispel Confusion article says "Flame of faith (added paladin 2)" it also means that Flame of Faith is added to the Holy Liberator spell list. Right?
kjenks 01-27-06, 01:02 PM	"Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Lesser" was supposed to be renamed "Telepathic Bond, Lesser" and then removed. Right? This is only slightly important because it's the 3rd level spell in the Mind domain.
kjenks 01-27-06, 01:58 PM	"Tidal surge (removed Ocean 5)" is irrelevant because there are no LG deities with the Ocean domain. Right?
kjenks 01-27-06, 02:05 PM	"Visage of the Deity" is the correct name for the 4th level Knight of the Chalice spell, right? I assume that the old name listed in the CW is incorrect: "Lesser Aspect of the Deity."
kjenks 01-27-06, 02:16 PM	The article says, "Weapon of the Deity (4th to 3rd)" so that clearly affects the spell lists for Blackguard, Cleric, Holy Liberator and Paladin. But what does it do to the Mysticism domain? MYSTICISM DOMAIN Granted Power (Su): Once per day, you can use a free action to channel your deity's power to grant yourself a luck bonus on your saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum +1). The effect lasts for 1 round per cleric level. Mysticism Domain Spells 1 Divine Favor: You gain attack, damage bonus, +1/three levels, +3 max. PH Errata 2 Spiritual Weapon: Magical weapon attacks on its own. 3 Visage of the Deity, Lesser: Your form becomes more like your deity's. [Good] or [Evil] 4 Weapon of the Deity S: +1 to your weapon's attack and damage, plus a special ability. 5 Righteous Might: Your size increases, and you gain combat bonuses. 6 Visage of the Deity: As lesser visage of the deity, but you get celestial or fiendish qualities. [Good] or [Evil] 7 Blasphemy/Holy Word: Kills, paralyzes, weakens or dazes nonevil/nongood creatures. [Evil] [Good] 8 Holy Aura/Unholy Aura F: +4 AC, +4 resistance, and SR 25 against evil spells. [Good] [Evil] 9 Visage of the Deity, Greater: As lesser visage of the deity, but you become half-celestial or half-fiendish. [Good] or [Evil] (I notice they still didn't fix the problem with the granted power; it should be an immediate action, not a free action.)
Nutation 01-27-06, 02:22 PM	Delay death (3rd to 4th), but it's also Destiny 3. I assume the Destiny domain (not listed in Dispel Confusion) is unchanged.
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 02:22 PM	There's a tiny change in the wording of the granted power: "it" changed to "the save" and it's no longer a Su ability. Actually, it still is. Look closely at the SC, p.276 You'll note that Granted Power is followed by the (Su) abbreviation. In short, no change apart from "it" to "the save". Wow, and just for that my cleric is allowed to choose one of his domains again? Ah well, never look a gift horse in the mouth I suppose...
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 02:24 PM	The article says, "Weapon of the Deity (4th to 3rd)" so that clearly affects the spell lists for Blackguard, Cleric, Holy Liberator and Paladin. But what does it do to the Mysticism domain? I wouldn't worry about the last part. It's a well-established fact that spells, as they are used within domains, are often "shifted" up or down a level in regard to their "true" level. Examples: - disintegrate (6th lvl spell but 7th in Destruction) - fire shield (4th lvl spell but 5th in Fire) - legend lore (6th lvl spell but 7th in Knowledge) etc..
kjenks 01-27-06, 02:52 PM	"Blink, Improved" is gone. Should we use "Blink, Greater" instead?
Moryath 01-27-06, 03:29 PM	The article says, "Weapon of the Deity (4th to 3rd)" so that clearly affects the spell lists for Blackguard, Cleric, Holy Liberator and Paladin. But what does it do to the Mysticism domain? Best guess? Absolutely nothing. Domains do not necessarily keep spells at the same level they are. Witness Haste being a 4th level spell for certain Domains. It is probably still a 4th level spell, IF you take it as your Domain spell in the level 4 slot.
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 04:02 PM	Alright.. <grumbles> I've taken the list from Dispel Confusion and went through it to correct errors. You'll note that, apart from Windstorm, NONE of the other 5 domains listed in Dispel Confusion truly experienced a change of spell-list (the guy who wrote that must have been dead tired when he did it) Spells that have changed names: Aid, legion’s (now aid, mass) Align fang, legion’s (now align fang, mass) Align weapon, legion’s (now align weapon, mass) Assay resistance (now assay spell resistance) Bane bow (now foebane) Bigby’s slapping hand (now slapping hand) Blink, Improved (now blink, greater) Chameleon (now camouflage) Cloudwalkers (now cloud-walkers) Conviction, legion’s (now conviction, mass) Curse of petty failing (now curse of ill fortune) Curse of petty failing, legion’s (now curse of ill fortune, mass) Force whip (now sonic whip) Leomund’s hidden lodge (now hidden lodge) Mordenkainen’s buzzing bee (now buzzing bee) Otiluke’s dispelling screen (now dispelling screen) Otiluke’s dispelling screen, greater (now dispelling screen, greater) Shield of faith, legion’s (now shield of faith, mass) Snake’s swiftness, legion’s (now snake’s swiftness, mass) Superior invisibility (now invisibility, superior) Undeniable gravity (now earthbind) Spells that have changed levels, or have been added or removed from spell lists: Absorb weapon (3rd to 2nd) Aid, mass (4th to 3rd) Aiming at the target (5th to 2nd) Align fang (druid 3 to druid 2, added ranger 2) Align fang, mass (druid 5 to druid 3, added ranger 3) Align weapon, mass (4th to 3rd) Angelskin (3rd to 2nd) Animate Fire (druid 2 to druid 1) Anticipate teleportation (4th to 3rd) Anticipate teleportation, greater (8th to 6th) Arrow of bone (sorcerer/wizard 6 to sorcerer/wizard 7) Arrow storm (4th to 3rd) Beast claws (druid 3 to druid 1, removed cleric 4) Bestow curse, greater (removed bard 6) Binding winds (5th to 2nd) Blades of fire (2nd to 1st) Blast of force (added sorcerer/wizard 2) Blessed aim (blackguard 2 to blackguard 1, cleric 3 to cleric 1, paladin 2 to paladin 1) Bolt of glory (added cleric 6) Bolts of bedevilment (added bard 5) Bottle of smoke (druid 4 to druid 3) Brain spider (cleric 8 to cleric 7) Branch to branch (druid 2 to druid 1) Briar web (removed cleric 3) Brilliant aura (druid 7 to druid 8, added cleric 8 and sorcerer/wizard 7) Brilliant blade (cleric 8 to cleric 7, added druid 7) Cacophonic shield (bard 6 to bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 7 to sorcerer/wizard 5) Castigate (added paladin 4 and Purification 4) Chain of eyes (added sorcerer/wizard 2) Close wounds (cleric 3 to cleric 2) Cloudburst (2nd to 1st) Contagious touch (6th to 4th) Critical strike (added bard 1) Crumble (6th to 3rd) Delay death (3rd to 4th) Demonhide (3rd to 2nd) Detect favored enemy (3rd to 1st) Discern shapechanger (3rd to 2nd) Doomtide (4th to 5th) Dragon breath (sorcerer/wizard 5 to sorcerer/wizard 4) Energy vortex (4th to 3rd) Exacting shot (1st to 2nd) Familiar pocket (2nd to 1st) Favorable sacrifice (1st to 3rd) Flame of faith (added paladin 2) Forestfold (druid 4 to druid 3) Fortify familiar (4th to 3rd) Freezing fog (5th to 6th) Guiding light (added bard 1) Hail of stone (added sorcerer/wizard 1) Harmonic chorus (3rd to 2nd) Healthful rest (added cleric 1) Holy spurs (2nd to 1st) Ice knife (added sorcerer/wizard 2) Implacable pursuer (added assassin 4) Improvisation (5th to 1st) Insidious rhythm (2nd to 1st) Invisibility, swift (bard 2 to bard 1) Lion’s charge (druid 4 to druid 3, ranger 3 to ranger 2) Lion’s roar (added cleric 8) Listening coin (4th to 3rd) Listening lorecall (removed sorcerer/wizard 2) Low-light vision (added druid 1) Maelstrom (added druid 8) Nature’s favor (druid 3 to druid 2) Obedient avalanche (added sorcerer/wizard 9) Omen of peril (added Liberation 1 and ranger 1) Poison vines (7th to 4th) Protege (6th to 4th) Resurgence, mass (cleric 4 to cleric 3) Revenance (added bard 6) Righteous fury (2nd to 3rd) Righteous wrath of the faithful (cleric 7 to cleric 5, added Purification 7) Scent (ranger 2 to ranger 1, removed sorcerer/wizard 2) Spiritual chariot (blackguard 4 to blackguard 3, paladin 4 to paladin 2) Storm of elemental fury (8th to 7th) Sword of deception (5th to 4th) Telepathic bond, lesser (removed cleric 3) Tidal surge (removed Ocean 5) Transfix (sorcerer/wizard 6 to sorcerer/wizard 7) Unyielding roots (9th to 8th) Visage of the deity (added Mysticism 6) Visage of the deity, greater (added Competition 9, Mysticism 9, Purification 9) Visage of the deity, lesser (added Mysticism 3) War cry (4th to 2nd) Waterspout (added druid 7) Weapon of the deity (4th to 3rd) Weather eye (removed cleric 4) Whirlwind, greater (added Windstorm 9) Wood rot (5th to 4th) Wrack (cleric 3 to cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 4 to sorcerer/wizard 5) Zeal (added Competition 2) Zealot pact (added Competition 6) Domain that has changed names: Weather to Windstorm Domains that have spell-list changes: (note that this doesn't concern domains whose granted power changed, nor domains whose spells now function differently; only domains whose spell-list changed) Drow Fate Greed Hatred Moon Pestilence Planning Portal Rune Scalykind Storm Suffering Time Undeath Windstorm (formerly Weather)
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 04:05 PM	I assume that since we are modifying the Ranger spell list and the Consecrated Harrier spell list is based on the Ranger spell list, we should also change the Consecrated Harrier spell list, right? So when the Dispel Confusion article says "Flame of faith (added paladin 2)" it also means that Flame of Faith is added to the Holy Liberator spell list. Right? Easy to answer. If a certain class or PrC states that it uses the same spell-list as class X, then it's obvious that IF the spell-list of class X has changed, then so has the spell-list of that other class/PrC
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 04:11 PM	"Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Lesser" was supposed to be renamed "Telepathic Bond, Lesser" and then removed. Right? This is only slightly important because it's the 3rd level spell in the Mind domain. Both the CD and the ExPsyHB already listed the 3rd level spell from the Mind domain as "Telepathic Bond, Lesser". I am not aware of any (3.Xe) accessory in which it was credited to Rary.
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 04:15 PM	"Tidal surge (removed Ocean 5)" is irrelevant because there are no LG deities with the Ocean domain. Right? Given we're supposed to receive soon the 2.1 version of the LG Deities pdf file, maybe a few will get it (though I doubt it). Right now, you are correct.
Mortepierre 01-27-06, 04:20 PM	Delay death (3rd to 4th), but it's also Destiny 3. I assume the Destiny domain (not listed in Dispel Confusion) is unchanged. Destiny is not one of the SC's domains (which isn't surprising given it comes from Races of Destiny). However, it's true they should have thought to add "Destiny 3" in the entry of Delay Death. Ah well, another line for the prospective errata...
kjenks 01-27-06, 05:14 PM	I notice that Hound of Doom from Complete Warrior is not reprinted in SpC, and it's not mentioned in the Dispel Confusion article. This isn't a big deal, but it's interesting. Edit: Nevermind. It's Hexblade only.
WotC_Tulach 01-28-06, 09:23 AM	Alright.. <grumbles> I've taken the list from Dispel Confusion and went through it to correct errors. You'll note that, apart from Windstorm, NONE of the other 5 domains listed in Dispel Confusion truly experienced a change of spell-list (the guy who wrote that must have been dead tired when he did it) Actually, if you look closely enough, the reason why those 6 domains are listed is because they have spells listed in the Spell Compendium. Which means, that since a good number of those spells changed function, we are allowing a change in domains for those characters. "Spell list change" refers not only to spells on a domain list changing, but also the spells themselves having a change.
dotreptile 01-28-06, 11:04 AM	So, if I have previously purchased scrolls of a spell that went down in spell level, are the scrolls I bought now worth less money? Should I re-buy them at the lower price? Wait for the LGCS? If I keep the scrolls, should I assume that they are at the higher caster level? (specifically, I am referring to Close Wounds, which went from Clr 3 to Clr 2)
Mortepierre 01-28-06, 11:13 AM	Actually, if you look closely enough, the reason why those 6 domains are listed is because they have spells listed in the Spell Compendium. Which means, that since a good number of those spells changed function, we are allowing a change in domains for those characters. "Spell list change" refers not only to spells on a domain list changing, but also the spells themselves having a change. Good to know. Mea culpa :surrender
kjenks 01-28-06, 09:09 PM	Animate Fire moved from Druid 2 to Druid 1, but the Dispel Confusion article didn't mention it. I assume it should change.
kjenks 01-28-06, 09:11 PM	Arrow of Bone moved from Sorc/Wiz 6 to Sorc/Wiz 7, but the Dispel Confusion article didn't mention it. I assume it should change.
kjenks 01-28-06, 09:59 PM	Transfix moved from Sorc/Wiz 6 to Sorc/Wiz 7, but the Dispel Confusion article didn't mention it. I assume it should change.
haferka 01-29-06, 02:41 AM	This is a perfect example of WHY they should post rule changes for review BEFORE they go live... All of these discrepencies could have been fixed before posting the official ruling... When I go say "post for review" I meen to the general LG players... US.
kjenks 01-29-06, 08:56 AM	This is a perfect example of WHY they should post rule changes for review BEFORE they go live... All of these discrepencies could have been fixed before posting the official ruling... When I go say "post for review" I meen to the general LG players... US. It takes more than a casual review to find this stuff. You have to open the books and read through every spell. It ain't easy and I'm probably missing a bunch of things, just like they did. As you can probably guess, I'm updating my LG Spell List. I've gone through the first pass; now I'm comparing every spell between SpC and its original source to see what the differences are.
kjenks 01-29-06, 09:30 AM	Divine Sacrifice added to Blackguard 1, but the Dispel Confusion article didn't mention it. I assume it should be added. (The Blackguard spell list matters to some PCs in LG because it can be used by neutral Pious Templars.)
kjenks 01-29-06, 10:56 AM	Golden Barding added to Blackguard 1, but the Dispel Confusion article didn't mention it. I assume it should be added. Edit: Oops. My mistake. It should have been in Blackguard 1 all along.
redgamer 01-29-06, 03:28 PM	This is a perfect example of WHY they should post rule changes for review BEFORE they go live... The list of spells changed was not a comprehensive list of changed spells to be used as a "rule." The dispel confusion said: "The list is intended for your reference" Hopefully someone can add the changes ken points out and repost the list so the reference is more useful.
JamesMaissen 01-29-06, 04:29 PM	As you can probably guess, I'm updating my LG Spell List. I've gone through the first pass; now I'm comparing every spell between SpC and its original source to see what the differences are. That is wonderful! I was hoping that you would be doing so. Your spell list is a great resource. If while doing so you could also come up with a (atleast an initial) list of spells that have changed (in function as well as header) I think that would be of immense help to us all in learning what all is different now that the SC is in the game. I know it took along time to assimilate all of the 3.5 changes (and some people are still doing so) and the amount of changes in the SC to spells is far greater and harder to notice, so such a list would be a godsend. Thanks for all the great work, James
haferka 01-30-06, 10:24 AM	It takes more than a casual review to find this stuff. You have to open the books and read through every spell. It ain't easy and I'm probably missing a bunch of things, just like they did. As you can probably guess, I'm updating my LG Spell List. I've gone through the first pass; now I'm comparing every spell between SpC and its original source to see what the differences are. I understand, thanks for all the work! If I had more free time I would help.. I just felt like pointing out that there are quite a few people on the boards that have TONS of time on their hands.. (no lives).. and would be willing to throw in their 2gp. I for one wish I had no life sometimes... No cares... no responsebilities...
kjenks 01-30-06, 11:06 AM	Dance of the Unicorn is inconsistently listed as Cleric 5 in CD. In SpC, it's only Druid 5, Purification 5, with no Cleric 5 at all. I'm not sure if this should be in the Dispel Confusion article because its partial listing in CD was probably a mistake to begin with, so it's hard to say that the Dispel Confusion article should say (removed cleric 5) when it isn't really clear if it ever should have been there.
kjenks 01-30-06, 11:28 AM	If while doing so you could also come up with a (atleast an initial) list of spells that have changed (in function as well as header) I think that would be of immense help to us all in learning what all is different now that the SC is in the game. I'm working on it. I'm putting some hidden text in my LG Spell List containing a brief description of the changes from the old version of each spell to the SpC version. You can see the hidden text on your screen, but it won't normally appear on your print-out (unless you enable printing of hidden text). I hope to release my document tonight or tomorrow, before the Dispel Confusion changes go live on 02/01.
kjenks 01-30-06, 11:53 AM	Actually, if you look closely enough, the reason why those 6 domains are listed is because they have spells listed in the Spell Compendium. If that was your only criterion for including domains in the list, you missed a few domains: CELERITY DOMAIN 8 Blink, Greater COLD DOMAIN 9 Obedient Avalanche COURAGE DOMAIN 3 Cloak of Bravery 5 Valiant Fury 8 Lion’s Roar 9 Cloak of Bravery, Greater CREATION DOMAIN 8 True Creation 9 Pavilion of Grandeur DESTINY DOMAIN 1 Omen of Peri 3 Delay Death 5 Stalwart Pact 7 Bestow Curse, Greater DOMINATION DOMAIN 8 True Domination 9 Monstrous Thrall DRAGON DOMAIN 4 Voice of the Dragon 7 Dragon Ally DREAM DOMAIN 6 Dream Sight FORCE DOMAIN 3 Blast of Force GLORY DOMAIN 6 Bolt of Glory 8 Crown of Glory GREED DOMAIN 1 Cheat 2 Entice Gift 8 Phantasmal Thief MADNESS DOMAIN 2 Touch of Madness 5 Bolts of Bedevilment 8 Maddening Scream MIND DOMAIN 3 Telepathic Bond, Lesser 6 Probe Thoughts 7 Brain Spider PACT DOMAIN 5 Stalwart Pact 6 Zealot Pact 7 Renewal Pact 8 Death Pact
kjenks 01-30-06, 11:57 AM	BTW, all of those domains, Celerity, Cold, Courage, Creation, Destiny, Domination, Dragon, Dream, Force, Glory, Greed, Madness, Mind, Pact, are available to PC clerics, according to the LG Deities Document 2.0.
WotC_Tulach 01-31-06, 01:06 AM	The listing of spells for the Dispel Confusion article is intended for reference use only; it is not necessarily a comprehensive list. I tried to make it as comprehensive as possible, given the limitations of time and space, but I couldn't put everything on it. The domains - the ones listed are all in Complete Divine, the most common alternate source for domains for clerics. If other domains had changes (either to the list or to the spells in the domain), it follows the same rules - you can swap it out for another domain. The second half of the document is intended to just give a quick guide to some of the changes from the Complete books/MH to the Spell Compendium. It is not intended to be the final source. I was going to leave the lists out of the article, but I figured it would at least be a good starting point to changing some often-used spells out.
kjenks 01-31-06, 08:07 AM	Thanks. That makes it much clearer what you want us to do.
kjenks 02-02-06, 09:30 AM	Unluck changed from 4th to 3rd, but the Dispel Confusion article didn't mention it. I assume it should be changed.