Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keasar 02-15-05, 12:29 PM	I was thinking about making a Wizard that would turn into a Bonded Summoner but I am concerned how DM handle a Wizard running around with a 16'+ elemental. It says in MM elders hit 40'. How do you play the game with a 40' elemental following you? Just looking for feedback from DMs and players who have played one in a LG. thanks
ajs 02-15-05, 01:52 PM	Are you asking about the physics of how a 40' elemental follows you around or whether or not it's a good idea to summon your giant beast in public / small spaces? For the first, well... it either stops and waits or makes a hole.... For the latter, I'd say that you want to avoid as much trouble as possible and just summon something that large when you need it, and if it fits.
Keasar 02-15-05, 02:40 PM	Are you asking about the physics of how a 40' elemental follows you around or whether or not it's a good idea to summon your giant beast in public / small spaces? For the first, well... it either stops and waits or makes a hole.... For the latter, I'd say that you want to avoid as much trouble as possible and just summon something that large when you need it, and if it fits. If I choose to become a bonded sumoner I want to make sure I will be able to actually use my elemental most of the time. From what I gather when you summon your elemental its as per the summon familiar spell. It reads in players handbook it costs 100 gp and takes 24 hours. It says the bonded summoner can dismiss his elemental then summon it again 24 hours later. Its not really practical to summon and dismiss your elemental if thats the case. So basically your going to have a 40' Elemental following you around. Even if you have a 40' fire elemental and you tell it wait out in the woods. Its going to be noticed. I assume the fire and air elemetal can change shape? Reduce their size?
mage189 02-16-05, 11:36 AM	Well, don't forget that you have to get access to Bonded Summoner too. It is a limited PrC in Living Greyhawk as of the LGCS 4.1. It'll be like anything else probably. It can be increadibly useful and great to have, or totally worthless in other situtations. You'll kind of have to play it by ear. Forget ever trying to sneak up on your enemies. Oh, wait! It's LG! You never have to worry about that anyway! :)
King Kashue 02-16-05, 02:07 PM	Well, don't forget that you have to get access to Bonded Summoner too. It is a limited PrC in Living Greyhawk as of the LGCS 4.1. It'll be like anything else probably. It can be increadibly useful and great to have, or totally worthless in other situtations. You'll kind of have to play it by ear. Forget ever trying to sneak up on your enemies. Oh, wait! It's LG! You never have to worry about that anyway! :) Not just that, but a lot of folks think they're walking around with an elemental tank, when that's entirely not the case...Look at the CRs of the beasties at each level...They're well below your level, which means way below the CR of the beasties you're fighting...and if the elemental dies, the penalties are much worse than a normal familiar dying... It's a cool concept, but if someone is taking it as a power class they're in for a surprise...
Keasar 02-16-05, 05:27 PM	Not just that, but a lot of folks think they're walking around with an elemental tank, when that's entirely not the case...Look at the CRs of the beasties at each level...They're well below your level, which means way below the CR of the beasties you're fighting...and if the elemental dies, the penalties are much worse than a normal familiar dying... It's a cool concept, but if someone is taking it as a power class they're in for a surprise... I like it for the concept but the concept seems flawed for a player character. Seems like everyone I talk too dosen't view it as a viable PC. I saw the bonded sumoner and I was like that would be cool to have an intelligent companion.I am fond of companions. I am currently playing a druid. I play more for roleplaying possibilites then power. The last time I played we had to pick a most valuable player for the adventure and someone said it should be the person who did the most damage. There was 3 people at the table who agreed. I didn't care one way or another but I was the healer and did minimal damage. Its hard to compete when someone does 50+ damage in a round with his bow at level 4 or a wizard who can do 20+ with one spell. I didn't really pay attention how he did it but the bow guy had like +9 to hit. Here I am with +2 to hit. Couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag.
King Kashue 02-16-05, 07:02 PM	I like it for the concept but the concept seems flawed for a player character. Seems like everyone I talk too dosen't view it as a viable PC. I saw the bonded sumoner and I was like that would be cool to have an intelligent companion.I am fond of companions. I am currently playing a druid. I play more for roleplaying possibilites then power. The last time I played we had to pick a most valuable player for the adventure and someone said it should be the person who did the most damage. There was 3 people at the table who agreed. I didn't care one way or another but I was the healer and did minimal damage. Its hard to compete when someone does 50+ damage in a round with his bow at level 4 or a wizard who can do 20+ with one spell. I didn't really pay attention how he did it but the bow guy had like +9 to hit. Here I am with +2 to hit. Couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag. An MVP huh?...that's idiotic...And lets see who is considered most valuable if the table needs a divine caster at a core special... The reason Bonded Summoner isn't seen as a viable pc class is because you lose caster levels...Which is something that seriously reduces effectiveness...You don't have to be min/maxed in LG (despite what far too many people think) but you can't be a gimp or you're a liability to the table...Now, I don't think Bonded Summoner necessarily makes you a gimp, but it requires you to think a lot harder on tactics and such...It could be a very powerful classl if you used it right...Mind you, the people who think it's absolute garbage generally make all decision off of the statistics on the page AND have a rather imperfect understanding of the statistics (these are the guys who think Monkey grip is a great feat or that improved disarm is a waste of a feat)... And +9 is about average for the primary weapon of a lvl 4 combat type...+4 from BAB, +3 or 4 from STR/DEX, and +1 from weapon focus/magic weapon...A true min/max would give you around +5 ability, +1 Weapon focus, +1 magic, +4 BAB for +11 at lvl 4... the 50+ points of damage is a bit fishy though, unless there were criticals...best case scenario is +4 from Str, +2 from Specialization, +1 from magic, which gives you 1d8+7, average of 11.5 per shot...You should only have 2 shots with rapid shot (unless you have a double bow or something, which most folks don't)...That's an average of 23 points a round, if both shots hit...As judge, I definitely would have wondered how he was doing 50+
Sieylianna 02-16-05, 09:50 PM	And the 50+ points of damage is a bit fishy though, unless there were criticals...best case scenario is +4 from Str, +2 from Specialization, +1 from magic, which gives you 1d8+7, average of 11.5 per shot...You should only have 2 shots with rapid shot (unless you have a double bow or something, which most folks don't)...That's an average of 23 points a round, if both shots hit...As judge, I definitely would have wondered how he was doing 50+ Haste would give him a third shot. Point blank shot is another +1 damage. His bow could be enchanted to more than +1 (elemental damage or Bane). This requires more money than a 4th level is likely to have, but he could have done a lot of adventuring with higher level PCs. Ed
King Kashue 02-16-05, 11:02 PM	Haste would give him a third shot. Point blank shot is another +1 damage. His bow could be enchanted to more than +1 (elemental damage or Bane). This requires more money than a 4th level is likely to have, but he could have done a lot of adventuring with higher level PCs. Ed He'd have to have elemental damage or bane, even with the third shot he's only averaging 37 points, and that's if all three hit (which is certainly not a given)... It's still an unusually large amount of ranged damage for a lvl 4 char...
Keasar 02-17-05, 08:13 AM	He'd have to have elemental damage or bane, even with the third shot he's only averaging 37 points, and that's if all three hit (which is certainly not a given)... It's still an unusually large amount of ranged damage for a lvl 4 char... He had one critical hit 1 out of 2 shots. Both shots hit. We were attacking from surprise and he had +11 or +13 to hit in that encounter. I think he was a 3 warrior/1 rogue. He probably did more damage in that one round then I did the whole mod.
King Kashue 02-17-05, 02:40 PM	He had one critical hit 1 out of 2 shots. Both shots hit. We were attacking from surprise and he had +11 or +13 to hit in that encounter. I think he was a 3 warrior/1 rogue. He probably did more damage in that one round then I did the whole mod. Well okay, a crit...You made it seem like he was doing that much damage every round...