Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sceadeau 12-29-05, 05:22 PM	Unfortunately, I've run into way too much table variance on this feat for my liking. I'd like to know officially how it works with regard to 2 different uses. 1) Empowering a cure light wounds. Is it (1d8+5)*1.5, or (1d8)*1.5+5 Why? 2) Empowering a cure light wounds that is augmented with augment healing: a) (1d8+7)*1.5 b) (1d8)*1.5+7 c) (1d8+5)*1.5 + 2 (augment) Just looking for a consistant ruling. Same question would be for warmage's edge being empowered.
kjenks 12-29-05, 06:21 PM	Take a look at the Player's Handbook description of the feat, not the System Reference Document description which omits the example. The example in the PH shows how Magic Missile works: (5d4+1)x1.5, not (5d4*1.5) +5. This should make it clear that Empower Spell + Cure Light Wounds works the same way: (1d8+5)x1.5, not (1d8x1.5)+5. It's all in where you place the parenthesis.
JamesMaissen 12-30-05, 02:30 AM	Take a look at the Player's Handbook description of the feat, not the System Reference Document description which omits the example. The example in the PH shows how Magic Missile works: (5d4+1)x1.5, not (5d4*1.5) +5. This should make it clear that Empower Spell + Cure Light Wounds works the same way: (1d8+5)x1.5, not (1d8x1.5)+5. It's all in where you place the parenthesis. Just to nit pick it is 5 rolls of (1d4+1)*1.5 rounding fractions down for each missle. So if you have 4 magic missles and roll a 1, 2, 3, and a 4 respectively on four d4s with an empowered magic missle it does 3 + 4 + 6 + 7 = 20 damage and not 15*1.5=22 damage (22.5 rounded down) as each missle's damage is 150% with fractions rounded down. But to the question posed, Ken is correct that the 'static' bonus points are also included in the 150%.. it is the entire value that is considered 'variable' for purposes of the feat as the PhB so directly shows. Some people like to think of a variable of 1d4+1 as having a 1d4 variable with 1 static rather than being a variable 2-5 points which is what the PhB shows is the intended interpretation. -James
Sceadeau 12-30-05, 08:27 AM	Despite this, despite it being plainly in the PHB, I _still_ get table variation. DMs seem to rule it either way based on how they feel that day. What I'm looking for is an official FAQ or a circle guy showing up saying "Yeah, this is how it works in LG". Also, neither of you have addressed the trickier part of the question. Augment healing gives +2 hp per spell level when casting a heal spell. Does that number get added in before or after the empower? What about warmage edge (+damage based on int modifier). An empowered burning hands would do (5d4)*1.5+2 or (5d4+2)*1.5. This won't make much of a difference at 2, but a character who works hard at getting the edge up (8-9) will care. So, how does it work, officially?
Sieylianna 12-30-05, 12:18 PM	Despite this, despite it being plainly in the PHB, I _still_ get table variation. DMs seem to rule it either way based on how they feel that day. What I'm looking for is an official FAQ or a circle guy showing up saying "Yeah, this is how it works in LG". Also, neither of you have addressed the trickier part of the question. Augment healing gives +2 hp per spell level when casting a heal spell. Does that number get added in before or after the empower? What about warmage edge (+damage based on int modifier). An empowered burning hands would do (5d4)*1.5+2 or (5d4+2)*1.5. This won't make much of a difference at 2, but a character who works hard at getting the edge up (8-9) will care. So, how does it work, officially? The Circle has consistently avoided making decisions on the rules. You may see it in a FAQ, but that's pretty much out of anyone's control. The Augment Healing question is fairly easy. I can't find where I saw it (of course), probably in Sage Advice or Rules of the Game (neither of which is "official" for LG unless it makes it into the FAQ), but the qestion was asked how the practiced spellcaster feat interacted with the Wild Mage level variation. The ruling was that the player could apply the feat to the calculation in the order he preferred. Based on this precedent, since empower and augment healing are both feats, IMO, the player can choose which feat to apply first. Obviously, you'd apply augment healing first to pick up an extra point of healing per spell level. The warmage edge isn't so clear. Since the rules say the warmage adds his intelligence bonus to the damage inflicted, I'd tend to go with applying empower and then the edge. Ed
Sceadeau 12-30-05, 12:27 PM	I'm a fan of consistant rulings. I've got a character that I've worked on getting my edge, at level 8, to +8, and an empowered Hail of Stones does (5d4+8)*1.5 sometimes, and 5d4*1.5+8 others. I've been arguing that if you apply the damage after, then it should be after the saving throw as well, suddenly making an (8d6)/2 +8 fireball much better than before. It can't be variable sometimes and not others. But ah well, thanks Ed. I will just continue to pull my hair out at 1/3rd of my tables.